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  #1  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:19 PM
LBGetBack LBGetBack is offline
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Default That WCW roster circa '98 was absurdly good

Hogan, Savage, Flair, Piper, Hart, Sting, Nash, Hall, DDP, Goldberg, Luger, Giant, Hennig, Bulldog, Benoit, Jericho, Eddie, Raven, Steiner, Booker T, Arn Anderson, Mysterio, Raven, Malenko, etc.

They had basically every active legend from the previous 10-15 years that still could go, they had one of the two hottest new stars in the business, they had numerous veteran midcarders that could still go, they had numerous young star talents that were shining in the ring and over with the fans.....it's still mindblowing that they messed it up, even 20 years later. Like.....how?

Last edited by LBGetBack : 05-20-2017 at 08:25 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2017, 11:52 PM
MWRedskins MWRedskins is offline
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Originally Posted by LBGetBack View Post
Hogan, Savage, Flair, Piper, Hart, Sting, Nash, Hall, DDP, Goldberg, Luger, Giant, Hennig, Bulldog, Benoit, Jericho, Eddie, Raven, Steiner, Booker T, Arn Anderson, Mysterio, Raven, Malenko, etc.

Like.....how?
Yeah WCW sure did have a ton of talents on their roster in 1998.....so to answer the how, well that's simple and it's booking. WCW booked Bret Hart very badly from the start of his run in WCW. Sting was booked as a champion who couldnt win without a little bit of help (which hurt his major return). Savage will always be known as the guy who could never beat Hogan. Meanwhile Booker T, Mysterio, Raven, Benoit, Jericho and Eddie could never move up the card and Jericho could've been huge for WCW's mid card because of how great he was both in the ring and on the mic.
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  #3  
Old 05-21-2017, 12:26 AM
Azane Azane is offline
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Ted Turner was letting Bischoff and company throw money down the drain. The WWF contracts at the time were nothing compared to WCW, it's why you saw so many big names jump ship. Hall and Nash particularly are never candid about how much more money Ted Turner offered over Vince.

Vince was letting Bret go just because he had no chance to match the money Bischoff was able to throw at him.

So, The BIG reason why WCW failed, was it had an extreme lack of star creation. Looking at the list you have there, DDP, Paul Wight, Booker T and Goldberg were the only stars that were WCW raised, everyone else was established, or was stuck in the WCW midcard

And the amount of energy that it did take WCW to make Godlberg, Hurt the rest of their product greatly. It's part of why I'm really against the way Roman is booked, or Cena was booked in the past. Even when it succeeds, I feel like running your roster ragged to push 1 mega star is poor booking.

You could see the incredible amount of talent on the roster, that was being held back as cruiserweight or midcard, because WCW couldn't think outside of nWo for quite a while.

WWF's main story of Austin vs McMahon was isolated, and outside The Corporation and Ministry, you didn't have the roster throwing itself at Stone Cold to make him look strong.

You also had the underhanded crap people were sick of. Remember the turning point when WCW started losing to WWF was the Tony Schiavone spoiling Mankind's title win.
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  #4  
Old 05-21-2017, 12:49 AM
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They also had 150 other people who worked in wwe at one point or another that didn't even attend tv tapings and got there buddies to sign them in so they go air fair and got paid.
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  #5  
Old 05-21-2017, 08:15 AM
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I can't call that "good" only bloated... Let's face it, WCW did what many Soccer teams now do - if a top player comes up, sign them to stop others having them, even if they rarely actually play. WCW was "collecting" talent almost like trading cards back then, of course the talent were going to take big money to sit at home.

Brad Armstrong's example was the most ridiculous as told by Honky Tonk... that he hadn't shown up for a year, been paid, hid while there just so he could put his name on the call sheet and lo and behold, he got 2 more years. Jericho played a similar dodge to avoid re-signing.

To call that roster good, means you have to say all are being used effectively... they werent. WWE in 98 had fewer "big names" but were using nearly all their people effectively - so even with some of the legends and big names WCW had... It was a better overall roster.
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  #6  
Old 05-21-2017, 08:43 AM
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Plus Goldberg was so extremely over in 98 too. Just look up Goldberg vs La Parka Nitro June 1st 98 for example. He was getting the most loudest reactions and chants from a live audience I've seen since 80's Hogan. The only thing comparible at that time was Stone Cold, but SC didn't get a huge reaction every single time like Goldberg did at his peak. WCW was on fire and its really too bad (with a roster of endless possibilities) that it went down the shitter the way it did. I loved WCW since I started watching it in the late 80's. The way it grew to outshine WWF was really exciting to me and to wrestling fans around the world. Never were we so spoiled to have two great companies trying to entertain us every week. If you got bored of WCW Nitro, you could choose Raw and vice versa. I agree 100% that the roster in 98 was amazing, even just in name. Throw a card out with that roster on paper and it would look great to any promoter.
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  #7  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:15 AM
LBGetBack LBGetBack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
I can't call that "good" only bloated... Let's face it, WCW did what many Soccer teams now do - if a top player comes up, sign them to stop others having them, even if they rarely actually play. WCW was "collecting" talent almost like trading cards back then, of course the talent were going to take big money to sit at home.

Brad Armstrong's example was the most ridiculous as told by Honky Tonk... that he hadn't shown up for a year, been paid, hid while there just so he could put his name on the call sheet and lo and behold, he got 2 more years. Jericho played a similar dodge to avoid re-signing.

To call that roster good, means you have to say all are being used effectively... they werent. WWE in 98 had fewer "big names" but were using nearly all their people effectively - so even with some of the legends and big names WCW had... It was a better overall roster.
Huh? That don't make no damn sense at all. Think about what you're saying.

WWE had a worse roster but they used their guys better so they had a better roster. HUH?

No, like I said....WCW had a great roster, they botched it though.
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  #8  
Old 05-21-2017, 12:27 PM
shooter_mcgavin shooter_mcgavin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBGetBack View Post
Hogan, Savage, Flair, Piper, Hart, Sting, Nash, Hall, DDP, Goldberg, Luger, Giant, Hennig, Bulldog, Benoit, Jericho, Eddie, Raven, Steiner, Booker T, Arn Anderson, Mysterio, Raven, Malenko, etc.

They had basically every active legend from the previous 10-15 years that still could go, they had one of the two hottest new stars in the business, they had numerous veteran midcarders that could still go, they had numerous young star talents that were shining in the ring and over with the fans.....it's still mindblowing that they messed it up, even 20 years later. Like.....how?
If you heard Dave Meltzer talk about this era the reason he said something like everyone was looking out for themselves and backstabbing each other. Heck Hogan and Nash colluded together to manipulate Goldberg yet, at the same time, both Nash and Hogan were at odds backstage.

Also it's the mentality in the company. While in the WWE/WWF everyone was there to help the company first and foremost, in WCW the folks there were just looking out for themselves and their friends rather the company.

And of course there's Eric Bishoff. Scott Hall said, while he was in WCW, the top guys in the back would call him Easy-E. And this is coming from a guy that had a huge influence backstage with McMahon and the WWF.
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  #9  
Old 05-21-2017, 03:33 PM
Kodo Sawaki Kodo Sawaki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBGetBack View Post
Hogan, Savage, Flair, Piper, Hart, Sting, Nash, Hall, DDP, Goldberg, Luger, Giant, Hennig, Bulldog, Benoit, Jericho, Eddie, Raven, Steiner, Booker T, Arn Anderson, Mysterio, Raven, Malenko, etc.

They had basically every active legend from the previous 10-15 years that still could go, they had one of the two hottest new stars in the business, they had numerous veteran midcarders that could still go, they had numerous young star talents that were shining in the ring and over with the fans.....it's still mindblowing that they messed it up, even 20 years later. Like.....how?
Go watch "The Rise and Fall of WCW" documentary. Having Hogan and Nash booking yours and their own matches is enough disadvantage to have against WWE who had StoneCold, McMahons and The Rock along with DX, Taker and all others. Not to mention their business was ludicrous and contained with offering all those contracts just for certain people to go for them with no business model to make it pay. Most big stars stayed employed even after company has gone to ground because there was no way to get those kind of money in WWE ever, even if your name is Hogan. Heck, I think documentary has stated that Hogan and Nash wrote their own salaries. That is ludicrous business destined to fail. Not to mentioned atrocious booking where most of guys you numbered there got underutilized. So THT is right, you could have star power but that doesnt mean you are better team. And they definitely werent better.
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  #10  
Old 05-21-2017, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBGetBack View Post
Huh? That don't make no damn sense at all. Think about what you're saying.

WWE had a worse roster but they used their guys better so they had a better roster. HUH?

No, like I said....WCW had a great roster, they botched it though.
He makes plenty of sense and what he says is right.

That WCW roster isn't good at all and the WWF roster at the time was better.

The only reason you are saying that WCW roster is great and better than the WWF's at the time is because you have a bunch of big names/legends and then some technical/aerial wrestlers listed. The big names/legends I'll give you but the technical/aerial guys like Malenko, Benoit, Eddie, Mysterio etc. Really? That's your reason for calling that half of the WCW roster great, just because they were technical wrestlers? I know technical wrestling is what's cool these days with smarky fans but please don't judge the WWF and WCW rosters back then with today's mentality of "if they're not a technical or aerial wrestler, they suck in the ring". Technical wrestling and Aerial wrestling doesn't define what a great wrestler is. There's a reason why Kevin Nash called guys like Benoit, Malenko, Mysterio, Eddie, the cruiserweights etc. "vanilla midgets" back then, it's because they were. All they had going for them was that they happened to be good technical/aerial wrestlers, nothing else. Besides that, they absolutely sucked and added nothing of value to the company. They weren't draws for the company and nobody could take them seriously even if WCW used them correctly when you have the likes of Goldberg, Nash, Hogan etc. on the roster. They were never going to be bigger names than them even if WCW utilized them. It baffles me how anybody can name somebody like Dean Malenko and say he is one of the reasons why a roster was great when he was a charisma vacuum. But "oh, he's a great technical wrestler, so that roster must be great, right?" The only "technical/aerial" guy from that list you named who was actually great is Chris Jericho. He was so much more than just a good technical wrestler, he was one of the best parts of WCW in 1998 and he made Dean Malenko look like a million bucks and one of the biggest babyfaces ever with his phenomenal heel work, which should've been an impossible task to do.

You seriously underrate the WWF roster at the time. Not only were guys like X-Pac, D-Lo Brown, Owen Hart, Jeff Jarrett, Val Venis, Goldust, Ken Shamrock, Al Snow, Edge, Christian, Gangrel, Taka Michinoku, Marc Mero, NAO etc. good wrestlers but they proved themselves to be entertaining characters too. Like everybody back then on the roster was actually over unlike that mid-card portion of the WCW roster you named. D-Lo Brown took a chest protector and turned it into an entertaining angle like Jericho did with a piece of paper this past year. X-Pac was the most popular guy in DX, not Triple H, X-Pac. Owen adapted to the Attitude Era and turned into a darker, more ruthless character and was part of that great DX-Nation feud. Jarrett got rid of the hokey Double J gimmick and became a solid mid-card act with the "Don't Piss Me Off" character. Val Venis and Godfather took controversial gimmicks like a pimp and a porn star and made them popular. Al Snow made being batshit insane and having a hardcore match with himself entertaining to watch. The Brood were mysterious and had such an epic entrance. Mero helped get Sable over tremendously by being such a great piece of shit heel to her. Taka showed he had a funny comedy side to him in Kaientai. And I could go on more about the rest on that WWF roster and how they were so good and better than most of the WCW roster besides just being good wrestlers.

These are the only names from that WCW roster I agree with...

Hogan, Savage, Flair, Piper, Hart, Sting, Nash, Hall, DDP, Goldberg, Luger, Giant, Jericho, Raven, Steiner.

Everybody else from that roster was meh and just there.

I don't even know why you put Arn Anderson there as he retired as a wrestler in 1997 and just took on the role of Enforcer for The Four Horsemen.

Last edited by Big Poppa : 05-21-2017 at 04:21 PM.
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