WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > Wrestling - Non Spam Sections > Old School Wrestling
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 04-23-2017, 10:54 PM
ilapierre's Avatar
ilapierre ilapierre is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 461
ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlairFan2003 View Post
Hogan put over a friend in his hometown in a meaningless non title match that wasnt televised (Rougeau in Canada). Nothing wrong with this, it hurt no one

Hogan was over due for a major loss and Piper was just the guy to deliver it and make fans happy (Starrcade 96). WCW fans & likely fans overall would have preferred Flair here as Mr WCW, anti NWO, etc but remember he was on injured reserve rehabbing rotator cuff surgery. Piper was a long established legend with a well documented history against Hogan (similar to Flair) and was clearly established as anti NWO, etc. Plus, the title wasnt on the line, this was a feel good/give back match for the fans & Hogan's loss made fans happy, this was a good call. Plus, while it added some much vulnerability to Hogan & NWO, Hogan still kept the belt so balance of power didnt really shift.

WCW needed a jolt in the early days of live Nitro, and Hogan suffering a pinfall loss on TV was big (Hogan had lost only 3 pinfall decissions since 1984, 12 years earlier). Arn Anderson was a well respected vetetan star with over a decade near the top of the card, and lets not forget the match was hardly clean, Hogan was clearly cheated. This match furthered the evolution of the reformed Four Horsemen as a legit threat to Hogan/Savage/Sting fan fave power trio. The top feud on the card was Flair-Savage, which this match (and Flair's much more competitive but still unclean win a week later over Hogan) clearly burnished, plus it added an air of vulnerability to Hogan to aide interest in his storyline vs Big Show, which considering what a newbie Show was then needed all the help it could get, and since WCW was making a huge investment in Show, his run vs Hogan was hugely important to establishing his credibility with the audience, so any burnishment is good.

Hogan shouldnt have lost at Uncensored 99 only because that match shouldnt have taken place. Flair was red hot when he returned and should have gone over clean vs Hogan at SuperBrawl 99. That would have created storyline chaos for the newly reformed NWO if Hogan dropped the belt to his arch nemesis (much to fans delight) after the FingerPoke of Doom, a great catalyst for stress between Hogan-Nash-Biachoff. Plus, at that point in Feb 99 Goldberg was super over and there was big money potential in re matches with him vs either Hogan and/or Nash. Meanwhile, Sting, Savage, & Hart are all soon returning from injured reserve with the NWO on its heels for the first time since early in their 96 inception with a potential wild card as Pres & Champion (Flair), afterall, he was Mr Fan Favorite Lives Wrestling Loves Fans Pro Tradition when his company was under attack & his arch rival had all the power, but there a ton of storyline directions WCW could have gone here with a guy known as "The Dirtiest Player In The Game". Especially if WCW would have a had a long range plan to put their only true YOUNG superstar (Goldberg) back on top by year's end. So much money just flushed down the shoot here, add Hogan winning at SuperBrawl 99 as an outcome that should not have happened.


Hogan-Savage with Macho getting a clean win shouldnt have been wasted on a Nitro, Savage deserved that on a premium PPV setting (SuperBrawl, Bash At The Beach, Haliween Havoc, Starrcade).
What bothered me was that Hogan only put over mid carders like Rougeau and Arn because he knew they couldn't diminish his value or surpass him in any way. Meanwhile, he wouldn't lose properly to main eventers like Flair, Hitman or Savage on big time PPVs. As for Piper at Starrcade 96, I get that it made sense to send the fans home happy. I just remember thinking it was silly that Piper could actually beat Hogan so easily considering the New World Order was so large and was always interfering. Even though the matchup had a fantastic build, the match was uninteresting. Starrcade 96 was a fantastic PPV..but that was by far my least favourite match on the card.

I watched a Kevin Sullivan interview that pretty much sums up why Hogan lost to both Flair and Anderson 2 weeks in a row. Apparently Flair was constantly whining to Sullivan over Hogan not losing cleanly to him or anyone. There was supposedly a Hogan camp and a Flair camp backstage. At some point, Hogan came to Sullivan and offered to lose to Arn and Flair (just to shut Flair up). It's clear when reading Flair's autobiography and watching the whole real life feud with Bischoff go down that Flair was pretty insecure with his standing in the company and with his legacy. He wasn't really much of a team player the entire time the New World Order was dominant and completely outshining everything the Horsemen had ever done. I love Flair as a wrestler and entertainer. But, from what I've learned, I'm not a big fan of the way he carried himself in WCW backstage between 1997-1999.

I enjoyed Flair's comeback in late 98 though and WCW set up what could have been a fantastic feud between the reformed NWO and Horsemen right after the FPOD. But, like you said, they screwed that up. I would have much preferred to see Hogan lose to the figure four leg lock at Uncensored rather than the 'first blood' match. And the big thing that still bothers me about how WCW fell apart is how they just took the NWO and phased it into the B-team with any official disbanding. I would have liked to see some finality with the old rebels, the Horsemen, officially retiring the new rebels, the NWO angle, in some sort of stipulation match..and that would have been a cool way for the Hogan and Flair match to have ended at Uncensored.

As for Hogan and Savage, I would have loved to see Savage beat Hogan at a PPV. But when I think of all the times that Hogan beat Savage, the one time that made absolutely no sense was the night after Spring Stampede 98. Savage was over huge as the lone wolf dividing the New World Order. The whole off and on Hogan/Savage feud was entertaining on so many levels over the years and it was the perfect time to give fans what they wanted: Savage finally getting his first ever clean win over Hogan..The fans would have gone bananas - (And Hogan obviously wouldn't let that happen - he'd rather wait and lose to a midcarder at a house show in Quebec).
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-23-2017, 11:55 PM
Lowdown's Avatar
Lowdown Lowdown is offline
Ooh baby I like it roooaaaaw!
WWF Hardcore Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,096
Lowdown scored a win over Santino Marella...Lowdown scored a win over Santino Marella...Lowdown scored a win over Santino Marella...Lowdown scored a win over Santino Marella...Lowdown scored a win over Santino Marella...Lowdown scored a win over Santino Marella...Lowdown scored a win over Santino Marella...Lowdown scored a win over Santino Marella...Lowdown scored a win over Santino Marella...Lowdown scored a win over Santino Marella...Lowdown scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default

For me, the Starrcade match with Sting should've ended up being a clean win for Sting instead of the mess it ended up being.

Outside of that, I feel the outcome of WM5 should've ended with Hogan turning heel instead of Macho Man. I know that Hogan was the top face at the time, but I wonder how it would've been had Hogan had been proven to be everything that Savage said he was leading up to the PPV.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-25-2017, 03:54 PM
Rulk25 Rulk25 is offline
Registered User
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 261
Rulk25 is looking to come up from OCW...Rulk25 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

From numerous sources HBK was suposed to go over Hogan and like you said a rematch was set but mid way through the PPV Hogan (Much like the Imfamous Bash at the Beach) changed his mind invoked Creative and said I am winning. That pissed off HBK and thus his juvenile reaction...but yeah Hogan was def at fault....I cant belive they gave him such expansive creative control....I mean he can could call an audible up till the point he exited the curtain and apparently did it
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter_mcgavin View Post

I would also like to add a recent one which was HBK vs. Hogan. IMO HBK should have gone over at Summerslam 2005. This would have done two things (1) HBK wouldn't have oversold this whole match turning it into a joke (I mean sure HBK was being kind of unprofessional here but Hogan probably had a hand in it too) and (2) Hogan would have agreed to a return match to get back the win (as he always does).

My guess is if HBK went over Hogan at Summerslam there would have been a Hogan vs. HBK rematch at WM22. Which would have made the card much stronger instead of wasting HBK with Vince McMahon.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-25-2017, 04:16 PM
sikkbones's Avatar
sikkbones sikkbones is offline
Registered User
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 335
sikkbones is looking to come up from OCW...sikkbones is looking to come up from OCW...sikkbones is looking to come up from OCW...sikkbones is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowdown View Post
For me, the Starrcade match with Sting should've ended up being a clean win for Sting instead of the mess it ended up being.

Outside of that, I feel the outcome of WM5 should've ended with Hogan turning heel instead of Macho Man. I know that Hogan was the top face at the time, but I wonder how it would've been had Hogan had been proven to be everything that Savage said he was leading up to the PPV.
No, wrestlemania vi was the right time...

Warrior was set to fail... But had hogan turned on the warrior, Jim hellwig might have gotten over.

But without hogan staying megaface till the bash in 1996, there is no nwo.

There is one match where I feel it had the wrong outcome...

Goldberg vs hogan should not have happened clean on nitro.
The nitro match could have still happened with a Goldberg win, but one from hogan being DQ from neo interferemce .
The only way that heel hogan should have lost to goldberg clean was for a paying audience
It should have happened on ppv with lots of buildup over the DQ win/loss.
__________________


the Five Moves of doom?
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-26-2017, 10:00 PM
Mr. Conway Spidey's Avatar
Mr. Conway Spidey Mr. Conway Spidey is offline
I see the "want to" in your eyes
WCW TV Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UA Little Rock
Age: 28
Posts: 1,601
Mr. Conway Spidey is a Television Champion...Mr. Conway Spidey is a Television Champion...Mr. Conway Spidey is a Television Champion...Mr. Conway Spidey is a Television Champion...Mr. Conway Spidey is a Television Champion...Mr. Conway Spidey is a Television Champion...Mr. Conway Spidey is a Television Champion...Mr. Conway Spidey is a Television Champion...Mr. Conway Spidey is a Television Champion...Mr. Conway Spidey is a Television Champion...Mr. Conway Spidey is a Television Champion...
Send a message via Skype™ to Mr. Conway Spidey
Default

Undertaker dropped the title to Hogan on a special show that was promoted like a week or so in advance. This Tuesday in Texas was built up just a little bit more than a house show, but nowhere near the levels of Summerslam or I'd argue an In Your House event. It wasn't all that great, except maybe a killer promo or two between Jake "The Snake" Roberts and Randy Savage. Going into the main event, it was established that Jack Tunney would be sitting at ringside to make sure no shenanigans would take place in the championship match.

It still had interference (Flair) and a dirty win for Hogan.

Tunney stripped Hulk of the belt later and put it on the line in the Rumble, making Hogan pinning Taker sort of silly in hindsight. Why not just have Taker cheat, knocking Hogan out with the urn or something? Tunney would see it and vacating the title would still go according to plan, but now Hogan doesn't look like an asshole for cheating. Both wrestlers would have saved some face at what was really a forgettable event.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Kerouac - On The Road
Whither goest thou, America, in thy shiny car in the night?
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-26-2017, 11:13 PM
sikkbones's Avatar
sikkbones sikkbones is offline
Registered User
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 335
sikkbones is looking to come up from OCW...sikkbones is looking to come up from OCW...sikkbones is looking to come up from OCW...sikkbones is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey 2 Tidy View Post
Undertaker dropped the title to Hogan on a special show that was promoted like a week or so in advance. This Tuesday in Texas was built up just a little bit more than a house show, but nowhere near the levels of Summerslam or I'd argue an In Your House event. It wasn't all that great, except maybe a killer promo or two between Jake "The Snake" Roberts and Randy Savage. Going into the main event, it was established that Jack Tunney would be sitting at ringside to make sure no shenanigans would take place in the championship match.

It still had interference (Flair) and a dirty win for Hogan.

Tunney stripped Hulk of the belt later and put it on the line in the Rumble, making Hogan pinning Taker sort of silly in hindsight. Why not just have Taker cheat, knocking Hogan out with the urn or something? Tunney would see it and vacating the title would still go according to plan, but now Hogan doesn't look like an asshole for cheating. Both wrestlers would have saved some face at what was really a forgettable event.
How much of that was hogan moaning and politicking?
In the modern era they would have waited a month.
__________________


the Five Moves of doom?
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-27-2017, 03:02 AM
Goldie's Avatar
Goldie Goldie is offline
Registered User
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 254
Goldie is looking to come up from OCW...Goldie is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Even though Warrior was a much weaker than anticipated champion in 1990, Hogan had to drop the belt to him, because he took time off to film his action flick- Subberban Commando.

Much like when Rick Steamboat had to take time off as IC champion, dropping it to Honky ... if one of his champs couldn't defend the title, Vince would put the belt on someone who could
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-27-2017, 07:14 AM
THTRobtaylor's Avatar
THTRobtaylor THTRobtaylor is offline
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
NWA Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,144
THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default

Wrestlemania 7... but the outcome is affected by the opponent. Should never have been Slaughter but Rick Rude - and Hogan should have lost.

Hogan had no business picking Slaughter for his opponent and dismissing Rude - it led to him leaving the company and while he fulfilled his potential in WCW with his stellar US title run, making THAT belt more meaningful than the WWF title at the time - it robbed us of seeing Rude help elevate talents like Shawn, Bret, Perfect and even that dream match of Savage v Rude for the title.

It seemed dumb to let Rude go and then bring Flair in to fight Hogan less than a year later. WWE have at least acknowledged the error a bit by basically upgrading Rude to a recongnised World Champion in his HOF video - but it's classic case of Vince kotowing to Hogan and not seeing the bigger picture.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-28-2017, 02:11 PM
Makaveli31's Avatar
Makaveli31 Makaveli31 is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 577
Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Wrestlemania 7... but the outcome is affected by the opponent. Should never have been Slaughter but Rick Rude - and Hogan should have lost.
Except that Hogan outweighed Rude by a 100 pounds lol. I personally liked the angle with Slaughter. It was one of the greatest heel turns of all time and brought out raw emotion from fans. Too bad it didn't happen closer to Slaughter's prime. By 1990, his best days were done.

Rude left the company because he was paid substantially less than Warrior for SummerSlam '90 despite carrying the match. He was scheduled to feud with Boss Man next so a match with Hogan was never in the cards. Hogan and Rude did have some house show matches in the mid-'80's I believe around 1987.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-29-2017, 11:30 AM
FlairFan2003 FlairFan2003 is offline
Registered User
ROH Pure Champion
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,578
FlairFan2003 worked a dark match on ECW recently...FlairFan2003 worked a dark match on ECW recently...FlairFan2003 worked a dark match on ECW recently...FlairFan2003 worked a dark match on ECW recently...FlairFan2003 worked a dark match on ECW recently...FlairFan2003 worked a dark match on ECW recently...FlairFan2003 worked a dark match on ECW recently...FlairFan2003 worked a dark match on ECW recently...FlairFan2003 worked a dark match on ECW recently...FlairFan2003 worked a dark match on ECW recently...FlairFan2003 worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post



It seemed dumb to let Rude go and then bring Flair in to fight Hogan less than a year later. WWE have at least acknowledged the error a bit by basically upgrading Rude to a recongnised World Champion in his HOF video - but it's classic case of Vince kotowing to Hogan and not seeing the bigger picture.
Rude was well known for tough to deal with, there are plenty of stories of him causing trouble backstage with people he didnt see eye to eye with, part of the reason Hogan refused to work with Rude when he signed with WCW (a moot point since Rude was injured around that time anyway & forced to retire).

As for Flair, that wasnt planned. No one thought Flair would be a free agent. Vince tried to sign him circa 1985 but Flair declined, he was making big money, prominently featured, and was loyal to Jim Crockett, Jr for sticking with him and pushing him. Vince tried again to sign Flair in 1989 but Flair again declined, having just been given a new deal to stay in WCW post Crockett's sale to Turner (a deal Turner refused to make unless Flair was on the roster). The whole disaster of The Jim Herd era (which actually got off to a very promising start) left a lot of top stars looking for new homes, as Road Warriors, Scott Hall, & Lex Luger all bolted for WWE between 1990-92. Flair fell in Vince's lap almost by accident.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:36 AM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices