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View Poll Results: Which year was worse for WWE?
1995 6 46.15%
2015 6 46.15%
Neither (Both were good) 1 7.69%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 06-16-2017, 05:35 PM
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This is hardly a fact. But, to clarify, are you saying if WCW and its roster just poof disappeared, WWF would've been in the same position? Or are you saying if WCW was suddenly not there, WWF would be in the same position despite WCW's roster now being available to WWF?
My point is the same events, which led to decline of the WWF, would've happened with or without the presence of WCW. Remember, this was not a sudden decline by the WWF. This gradually happened over a number of years beginning in 1990. If the "rise" of WCW accounted for the terrible year the WWF had in 1995, what accounted for the years 1990-1994 when the WWF was doing just as bad.

1) the federal steroid investigation and trial would've still happened leading to financial turmoil for the company.

2) The "Hulkamania" era would've still ended. Leaving a vacuum for that top spot.

3) The booking would've still been the same corny crap with or without WCW.

If you listen to shoots by Bruce Pritchard and Jim Cornette, who both were familiar with Vince's thinking back then, he was not worried about WCW in the least. He just escaped major jail time. His reaction to Nitro was 'Oh, that's interesting' to quote from Bruce Pritchard's shoot interview. WCW was not on his radar. He wasn't giving out guaranteed contracts, he was not changing the direction of the company, all that didn't change until Hall and Nash jumped a year later.

So my point is they would've been in the same financial position due to the steroid trial and Hogan's "retirement". They would've had the same booking philosophy because the Attitude era didn't happen until '97. The only thing that might've been different is the roster but I don't think the top guys would've changed. Vince was content with what he had.
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  #22  
Old 06-17-2017, 03:57 PM
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I would say 1995 was the worse year of the two. In 1995 they had one of the worst Wrestlemania events in history in Wrestlemania 11. It even gets my vote for being THE worst Wrestlemania. The year also saw awful characters such as Isaac Yankem who we now of course know as Kane, but back then he was just an evil dentist character who sucked. Mabel won King Of The Ring and main evented against Diesel. Many older fans have tried to block that out from memory and who could blame them? This is all without even addressing a show called Monday Nitro that began in September of 1995 giving the fans a better option for what to watch, unless you were like me and watched both.

Then you have 2015. The year was off to a bad start with the Reigns VS Lesnar feud going into a main event at a Wrestlemania that so many thought would suck. The event as a whole exceeded expectations ten times over. Wrestlemania 31 had Seth's awesome cash-in, Sting's Wrestlemania match, Paige and AJ teaming up in a tag team match, and more. Seth as World Heavyweight Champion was a welcome change from the nonsense of Lesnar holding the title hostage since Seth actually defended it. Cena was giving prestige back to the US Championship. It wasn't until the end of the year at Survivor Series that it really got awful. 2015 had some pretty bad moments, though overall it's low points were nowhere near as bad as 1995.
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  #23  
Old 06-17-2017, 05:30 PM
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You can't really judge the two years on the same levels...

1995 was a time of paradigm shift in the business... not just with Hogan joining WCW but the whole business changed on its axis... You had monthly PPV for the first time, Nitro going live every week as opposed to the WWF's alternate weeks and TV ratings becoming the driver for both companies for the first time over PPV revenue and live event attendance.

WCW were better prepared for that shift, but that was to be expected as they were owned by a media mogul... they were able to give "Eric two hours on a Monday Night..." immediately... Vince had to negotiate his deals and work within financial restraints AND adapt his PPV model to match WCW's in a short space of time... He couldn't offer the contracts WCW were to aging talent and that meant he had a roster that to many was "inferior".

Look at that roster of "new talent" again though... you had Kane there, Dustin Rhodes, Mick Foley, Ron Simmons, Chris Candido, Jinsei Shinsake and Owen Hart who was only a year into his big run... Add in the guys already established like Nash, Hall, Davey, Bret, Bam Bam and Taker and you have a pretty strong core roster.

But they had to pad it with the Smokey Mountain deal, signing WCW Z listers like Johnny Gunn/Sal Sincere and using older C level talents like Bundy, Volkoff and Dan Spivey/Waylon Mercy.

The booking sucked but at the same time WCW's wasn't MUCH better... it was just the first time that many of their fans had seen Hogan and crew, so it seemed fresher. WWF was hurt more by the appalling choice of gimmicks for talent that saw the future Kane a dentist, Tony Anthony a plumber and Lex Luger and The Bulldog fighting The Harris Brothers, who were wearing skirts.

They needed more talent to do monthly PPV shows... but those available to them were the cheaper, less interesting options...so they had to overcompensate with shit gimmicks that in the main backfired... but Goldust for example, didn't backfire.

2015 was a different time in that Vince was having to adapt to damage done BY HIM and his choices rather than the business shifting. There was a lot of talk of Wall Street problems around that time, they had failed to secure the TV rights deal they had hoped for and for the first time Vince looked out of ideas on a business level. As a traded company by that time, options would have been limited... and to an extent WWE IS trapped in a self made slump... they built everything around Cena and PG to the level that even if the business demands a change, like it did in 1996-98... they may not be able to do it for risk of being voted out by other shareholders.

Both are "bad years" with some positives the following year... but the one truth remains is that in both years, Vince was a poor judge of talent to push... Nash and Shawn didn't catch as he hoped, just as Roman and Rollins haven't. It took a star "from nowhere" in Austin to catch and AJ was kind of that guy last year...
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  #24  
Old 06-17-2017, 11:31 PM
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I have to go with 1995 myself. Outside of Bret,Shawn, Taker, Diesel, Owen, Bulldog, Razor, 123 Kid plus maybe a couple others the Roster was very weak. Royal Rumble & Survivor Series were two of the bright spots that year plus actually Summerslam isn't a bad Show either. But then you had a pretty bad Wrestlemania 11 and an awful King Of The Ring. I haven't seen any of the In Your Houses except the December one even though i was watching at that point early on in my time as a Fan. I need to go back and watch the other IYH PPVs on The Network.

2015 overall is a better year than some give it a credit for. I agree the Royal Rumble outside the Triple Threat is not good, Wrestlemania 31 is one of the best Manias from start to finish, I really like Summerslam, and i have a soft spot for Survivor Series as I was there even though i wasn't a big fan of Roman Reigns losing the Title after winning it. A couple of the B Shows are good like Extreme Rules, MITB, Battleground, and TLC. Plus the influx of the Talent that came in on both NXT and the Main Roster. I got to see the debuts of Charlotte, Sasha Banks, and Becky Lynch arriving on RAW too.
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  #25  
Old 06-18-2017, 02:40 AM
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Was the roster that weak in 2015? A lot of guys they had became bigger over time.

Roadie & Billy Gunn
Triple H
Kane/Issac Yankem
Al Snow/Avatar
Bob Holly
Steve Austin (later part of the year)
Fatu/Rikishi

All of those guys were seen as "lowly" or weak talents in 1995 but became major parts of the winning Attitude Era roster. Where they were weaker than WCW was in the "jobber" department, as WCW were hiring bigger names and better talents to fill those roles while WWE were using Smokey Mountain or WCW rejects like Tony Anthony and Tracey Smothers in those roles. They also botched some of the potentially better ones like Maxx Payne/Man Mountain Rock and Louie Spiccoli.
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  #26  
Old 06-18-2017, 11:53 AM
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Outside of Bret,Shawn, Taker, Diesel, Owen, Bulldog, Razor, 123 Kid
Wow, you missing Bam Bam Bigelow, Tatanka, Yokozuna, Lex Luger, Jeff Jarrett, Sid, plus you had solid talent like IRS Mike Rotunda, The Smoking Gunns, The Godwinns, Savio, Kama, the Samoans, etc.....
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  #27  
Old 06-18-2017, 12:17 PM
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Good things about 2015 off the top of my head:

Rollins' cash-in

Cena's US Open Challenge

End of Lesnar and Taker feud

One of the best WrestleMania's ever

One of the best matches ever (Lesnar-Cena-Rollins)

Admittedly those are cherry-picked and it wasn't a great year, but the best moments of 1995 just don't match up. 2015 is the better year.
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