WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > The WrestleZone Forum Archives > The Wrestling Archives
Register FAQForum Rules Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-02-2016, 03:55 PM
FoleyIsGod's Avatar
FoleyIsGod FoleyIsGod is offline
Wanker
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Yorkshire
Age: 32
Posts: 474
FoleyIsGod is looking to come up from OCW...FoleyIsGod is looking to come up from OCW...FoleyIsGod is looking to come up from OCW...FoleyIsGod is looking to come up from OCW...FoleyIsGod is looking to come up from OCW...
Default Who was the biggest "victim" of Triple H's "Reign of terror"

Ok, this might have been brought up before, but who do you think was the biggest victim during Triple Hs stranglehold on Raw all those years ago.

Firstly you had Jericho. He had the look, crowd reactions, mic skills and talent to be a true champion and a figurehead of Raw.

Secondly, RVD. He was white hot after the invasion and for years after, until that died with Triple H and he seemed to lose interest in wrestling after his push was stopped.

Thirdly, Booker T. Likewise with Y2J, he was popular enough to hold the belt.

Kane around that time was a believable monster,till the mask loss which destroyed his character for me.

Special mention to Eugene and Scott Steiner, pair of them looked awful vs the Triple H machine
__________________
sendpm.gif
  #2  
Old 12-02-2016, 04:50 PM
ilapierre's Avatar
ilapierre ilapierre is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 473
ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

The biggest victim was the WWE audience. Sure, all the wrestlers you mentioned were held back or devalued. But so was the overall product and future of wrestling. Triple H's 'stranglehold' wasn't much different than Kevin Nash booking himself in the WCW from 1999-2001. Two guys who were great in supporting roles who were even better behind the scenes politicians. A lot of wrestling fans today claim that wrestling just started sucking in the past 5 years. But the wrestling fans today are a small minority compared to the audience lost anywhere from the 2002 brand split to say 2008-2009. Those fans disappeared because things stopped making sense and so many supporting characters were getting pushed (or pushing themselves) into prime time roles. Looking back it's obvious that if Stephanie married any wrestler, that wrestler would be able to control his legacy and mold it into whatever he wanted. Paul is a cocksucker but most people in his shoes would have the done the exact same thing. What's best for Paul and what's worse for the rest of us. Oh and one final thing. When Vince won the Monday Night wars, he believed it was because of something he did. He thought himself invincible and held himself up in his own mind as some sort of creative genius. Furthest thing from the truth. He's damn lucky WCW self destructed when it did. So, anyway, the point is Vince hasn't vetoed Triple H's rewriting of history to prop himself up as the best ever because Vince arrogantly believes anything he produces will be well received. Triple H is living proof that Vince is dead wrong and far from the genius some of us misguided wrestling fans believed he was.
sendpm.gif
  #3  
Old 12-02-2016, 05:54 PM
johnbragg johnbragg is offline
Registered User
WWE Women's Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 931
johnbragg is looking to come up from OCW...johnbragg is looking to come up from OCW...johnbragg is looking to come up from OCW...johnbragg is looking to come up from OCW...johnbragg is looking to come up from OCW...johnbragg is looking to come up from OCW...johnbragg is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Kane. The transformation of Kane from the Big Red Machine, the monster impervious to pain, the first victim of the Undertaker's rage, and of course as JR kept reminding us "a former World Champion," to KAtie Vick's boyfriend.

No one else's credibility was as thoroughly ruined. Not RVD, not Booker T, not Goldberg, not Steiner, not even Jericho when he was picking up the McMahon-Helmsley's dog poop before accidentally running over the dog.
__________________
"Who will be at Wrestlemania in 2014?" That question should drive everything WWE does.

"Will there be a Bound For Glory in 2011, post-Hogan?" That is my question about TNA.

January 4, 2010. Welcome to the TNApocalypse.
sendpm.gif
  #4  
Old 12-02-2016, 06:29 PM
OYDK's Avatar
OYDK OYDK is offline
Registered User
ECW TV Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,243
OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...
Default

I'd say Booker T. Beating HHH at Mania could have made him a bona-fide star. He was over with the crowd and definitely had the skill, both in the ring and on the mic, to hold the title at that time. Losing like he did killed a ton of the momentum that he had been building up since his debut, and it took him years to get back to the main event.

RVD's up there as well, but I never really saw him as championship material until later in his career.

As for Kane, from what I remember he bounced back pretty quick after losing his mask and he had some really memorable moments within that year. Setting JR on fire, kidnapping RVD, his feud with Shane, and his Mania 20 match with Taker to name a few. I actually thought that was the best work of his career.
__________________

Last edited by OYDK : 12-02-2016 at 06:32 PM.
sendpm.gif
  #5  
Old 12-02-2016, 09:44 PM
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.'s Avatar
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is offline
Kamehamehaaaaa!!
ROH Pure Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Age: 22
Posts: 1,434
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is getting some looks on Smackdown...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is getting some looks on Smackdown...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is getting some looks on Smackdown...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is getting some looks on Smackdown...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is getting some looks on Smackdown...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is getting some looks on Smackdown...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is getting some looks on Smackdown...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is getting some looks on Smackdown...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is getting some looks on Smackdown...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is getting some looks on Smackdown...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default

That's a hard question. For me the candidates for becoming world champs at that point were Kane, Jericho and Booker T.

I think the biggest misopportunity from 2002-2005 has to be Chris Jericho. I mean the man went from being as over as The Rock, to Undisputed Champion to midcard in an instant. But I don't think it was due to HHH so I'll count him out. They never really had a feud after 2002, since they were both heels. This is more like "creative's reign of terror".

It has to be Booker T though. The man had all the tools to be a world champion. He already was a five time, five time, five time WCW Champion. And he became a WH Champion later in the WWE. Booker T was the biggest talent they got in 2001, but they never really got behind him.. Such a shame. And Booker till this day, shows nothing but greatfulness for the WWE. What a guy.

The same goes for Kane.

I think HHH was lucky to have guys around him like Jericho, RVD, Kane and Booker T who just wanted to entertain the fans and didn't care about the spotlight.

Just remember what happened to guys who wanted the spotlight, like Steiner or Goldberg. Poof. They vanished in an instant.
sendpm.gif
  #6  
Old 12-03-2016, 08:29 AM
sMark's Avatar
sMark sMark is offline
Registered User
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 346
sMark is looking to come up from OCW...sMark is looking to come up from OCW...sMark is looking to come up from OCW...sMark is looking to come up from OCW...sMark is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

To be fair, blame it all at HHH is unfair. I'am pretty sure Vince knew what The Kliq did to WWF years prior, but he allowed HHH to have all his friends with him on the same show - HBK, Nash, X-pac, Hall, later Flair and Evolution. So Kliq being Kliq ruled RAW in 2003-2003 and Evolution ruled RAW in 2003-2004.
Of course nobody was able to break at that time.

If you need to choose 1 victim, i'd say Chris Benoit - winning the title at Mania, and falling into midcard in 2 months. Chris was the guy fans wanted to see as champion at the time, and if WWE really got behind him and support, he could be the real main event, but RAW was still about HHH, every show was booked around him, and Benoit didn't matter because of it.
__________________
I'am your friend!
sendpm.gif
  #7  
Old 12-03-2016, 03:15 PM
Vanilla Midget's Avatar
Vanilla Midget Vanilla Midget is offline
Registered Suplex Offender
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Age: 32
Posts: 578
Vanilla Midget worked a dark match on ECW recently...Vanilla Midget worked a dark match on ECW recently...Vanilla Midget worked a dark match on ECW recently...Vanilla Midget worked a dark match on ECW recently...Vanilla Midget worked a dark match on ECW recently...Vanilla Midget worked a dark match on ECW recently...Vanilla Midget worked a dark match on ECW recently...Vanilla Midget worked a dark match on ECW recently...Vanilla Midget worked a dark match on ECW recently...Vanilla Midget worked a dark match on ECW recently...Vanilla Midget worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Hands down Kane. Close second for Booker and an argument could even be made for Goldberg. Goldie was already a mega-star. His treatment in WWE lead to him not signing beyond his one year deal. What could have been? Goldberg deserving star treatment is an argument for another thread (you screwed Bret, bud).

It's ludicrous how over Kane was when he returned in 2002. That return against the Un-Americans on Raw should be text book material for WWE writers on how to book returns. The weeks of cryptic vignettes, the massive save, followed by the light heel tease before subsequent huge babyface cementation. Classic.

He won the tag titles in the fourth ever TLC match, then won the IC. No one was getting pops as huge as Kane was. Kane could have started garnering mainstream attention with the reactions he was getting. Then they did the whole necrophilia angle and had him fail to capture the World title/lose the IC title and then did dick all with him.

Kane easily, easily, could have been the guy to carry the World title into the first ever Elimination Chamber and lose to Shawn Michaels. The EC match at Survivor Series could have ended just the same, with the added addition of writing Kane into a new feud so the World title could be used for Shawn vs Triple H.

The amount of merchandise that Kane could have sold, the amount of mainstream exposure during a time when WWE was steadily declining from the mainstream is just insane. It was leaving money on the table, not backing a company guy that they built themselves and just generally embarassing themselves. I'd love to see some ratings numbers post-No Mercy 2002.

Booker is a close second, only becase he wasn't getting the reactions Kane was during the build to Mania 19. Regardless of wether the intent was to have racial undertones in the feud, you have the undermined guy go over the bigot no matter what. That would have undone the damage done by Triple H's comments altogether. This is only 6 months after the Katie Vick incident too, so WWE on a roll in poor booking.


I won't get into Goldberg too heavily. There are so many other factors to consider such as his second feud being with Jericho, but it was all downhill when he didn't get the world title at SummerSlam. He should have won on the first try. It would have been in WWE's best interest to keep Goldberg during a time when they we hemorrhaging stars.
sendpm.gif
  #8  
Old 12-03-2016, 06:52 PM
Rulk25 Rulk25 is offline
Registered User
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 294
Rulk25 is looking to come up from OCW...Rulk25 is looking to come up from OCW...Rulk25 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Ok first on your honorable mentions nope neither of those is HHH fault
Eugene was doomed due to a horrible character...no way he was getting out of the mentaly challenged box
Scott Steiner had his own problems...By the time he came into the WWE his steroid use really screwed him up. The fans turned on him quick and he was just sloppy in the ring

Jericho was probably hurt but he still got the brag of Austin/Rock that he still lives on to this day

I say its Booker....He was getting over and then got humiliated by Rock, then Austin and was starting to make a run of it before HHH comptely buried him with a clean pin at Mania....
sendpm.gif
  #9  
Old 12-04-2016, 07:42 PM
Xpyred013's Avatar
Xpyred013 Xpyred013 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rego Park
Age: 33
Posts: 31
Xpyred013 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

it's funny you bring this up. I've been doing a chronological rewatch of WWF mid 97 - 2005 (guerrero's death) and i just got to the mcmahon helmsley era and holy shit am I bored. I mean, i was binge watching and enjoying everything but i just passed November and December 1999 and it took me three months to even get by a month and a half.

Then HHH really took off after his injury return and the show went to hell quick as well.

I agree with your choices OP.
sendpm.gif
  #10  
Old 12-05-2016, 01:35 AM
shooter_mcgavin shooter_mcgavin is offline
Registered User
ROH Pure Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,513
shooter_mcgavin scored a win over Santino Marella...shooter_mcgavin scored a win over Santino Marella...shooter_mcgavin scored a win over Santino Marella...shooter_mcgavin scored a win over Santino Marella...shooter_mcgavin scored a win over Santino Marella...shooter_mcgavin scored a win over Santino Marella...shooter_mcgavin scored a win over Santino Marella...shooter_mcgavin scored a win over Santino Marella...shooter_mcgavin scored a win over Santino Marella...shooter_mcgavin scored a win over Santino Marella...shooter_mcgavin scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default

I would say RVD only because he was over and could have been a main event talent for a few years.

I am not the biggest RVD fan but there was no doubt that he was one of the few bright spots in the Invasion Angle and really came to his own that time and his popularity was on the rise.

I was talking to my cousin who is what you can describe as a casual fan and I asked him who were your current favorites at the time (around 2002/2003) and he said he liked RVD. So RVD is a guy that could have had some cross over appeal.

I found it strange though that RVD's push was derailed the moment Triple H returned from his injury. It's the same thing when I noticed the only time Jericho got the main event spot is either when Triple H is injured or when they are in separate brands.

That said WMXIX should have been RVD vs. Triple H and going over.

Honorable mentions to this list are Jericho and Booker T.
sendpm.gif
 


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices