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  #1  
Old 09-24-2017, 01:58 PM
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Default Taking The Knee

Today, being a Sunday afternoon with the NFL in full swing, it seemed like an appropriate day for this discussion.

As I'm sure most of you know, there has been a tendency in recent times for professional athletes to refuse to stand during the standard playing/singing of the national anthem at sporting events. Colin Kaepernick has been one of the "higher profile" guys in this matter, but it seems to be an increasing trend in pro sports. Rather than standing during the anthem, some of the players (also known as "sons of bitches" by some guys lol) have chosen to go down on one knee in protest. I was just wondering how guys felt about this sudden departure from the norm.

Personally I'm Canadian, so the American national anthem carries no particular significance for me. But if I am on vacation in the USA and I'm at a sporting event or a concert or whatever, I stand up and I shut up for a couple of minutes out of respect for those who honor the anthem for whatever reason. Personally I think is an awful thing for these athletes to do, and I totally oppose it . A total lack of respect for those who have fought in various wars over the years (past and present) to ensure the liberties that we all take for granted. Those who have died or sustained life altering injuries or illnesses, as well as their loved ones, it is a total lack of respect for these people. While I don't think those "sons of bitches" should be fired, I definitely think the various leagues should take a stand and deal with this accordingly.

I get the whole First Amendment thing. And sure, people have the constitutional right to protest and exhibit free speech. But there is a time and a place for it. Whether you like Donald Trump, or whether you hate him. Whether you agree or disagree with whatever side of the coin you are protesting over, there's a time and a place for it. Go ahead and protest for the other 6.5 days of the week, and the entire off season if you want to. That's your constitutional right. But out or respect for those who laid the groundwork, and continue to do so, so that these brats can earn multi millions of dollars a year playing a game, during the national anthem just stand there and shut the hell up. And at least let there be one day a week, and one venue, which does not end up getting overly politicized.

Rant over.
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  #2  
Old 09-24-2017, 02:35 PM
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Default

Trump is telling team owners/GMs to suspend/fire players who don't stand for the national anthem. Fuck that noise.

I just read about this while I was having a cup of coffee this morning and my first thought wasn't anything bad about the players (like it was during the situation) was how I can't believe Trump is shoving his 2 cents where he's really got no place putting it.

I see this as yet another way people are protesting the stupid shit Trump spews from his cake hole and I say good for them. I hope every team does this for a while and Trump shuts the fuck up and does his job.
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  #3  
Old 09-24-2017, 02:42 PM
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Paid patriotism, post 2011. NFL players were not required to stand idly by as the National Anthem played until fairly recently. So people getting upset over this now when most of the league's history they were either in the locker room or just sitting around is silly. But the best way to get people distracted from more pressing matters is to appeal to their emotions - in this case the fight over misplaced patriotism and "respect".

Let's be honest, most Americans at home are either sitting around, in the kitchen, or talking with one another when the National Anthem is playing anyways. We are all guilty of this. Every sportsbar, living room, lobby area, etc I've ever been in that had a football game on had people sitting around without their hand on their heart when the Anthem played. The only reason there's a fuss is because media is shining a light on it, which is the entire point to why people are taking a knee. If they did it any other time, it wouldn't get the exposure it's getting now.

Members of my family died for the right for us to sit or stand. It's a choice. They can exercise said right, even if it feels insulting to others. It separates us from the countries that have to do as they're told or else get killed.
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  #4  
Old 09-24-2017, 02:45 PM
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I have no problem with them taking a knee during the national anthem because it is a respectful way of protesting, more so than the Black Power salute of Tommy Smith and John Carlos in 1968.

We had an Irish footballer over here who turned his back on the British flag during that national anthem - that to me was outright disrespect not only in the way he did it but because he was not really doing it in response to anything specific other than his dislike of the British as an Irish Republican.

Should sport be politicised? Ideally, no. But it is an effective tool in bringing injustice to the forefront and those millionaire sportsmen have as much right to protest as the rest of us. We would likely complain more about them doing nothing with their celebrity.

And saying that by taking a knee, those men are disrespecting those who have fought and died for their country is utter garbage. "I'm not a patriot because I don't stand and put my hand on my heart when a specific song plays and a specific piece of fabric is flown"? Nonsense.

I would say though that the number of players doing it today is much more about the NFL fraternity sticking together in the face of the president calling men exercising their rights "sons of bitches" than it really is about Kaepernick's reasons. And this kind of distraction is probably what Trump wants to take eyes away from the ACA vote, either to sneak it through to hide his further embarassment over impending failure to repeal it.
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  #5  
Old 09-24-2017, 03:30 PM
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The idea of the flag is to represent America, which is the land of the free. One such freedom is the freedom of speech, which includes a freedom to protest something if you so desire.

The people who are freaking out over this are probably the same people who feel the need to explain to you how to be a real patriot, which was apparently written on the tablet that Moses forgot at the top of the mountain. The players who are protesting are doing so because they have an issue with something and want it to be discussed and addressed. That's their right as a free American and there's nothing wrong or illegal about what they're doing. Besides, if they want to get attention to a cause, what is going to get more eyes on them: holding a sign on the streets of San Francisco or when a camera is on them with millions of people watching?
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  #6  
Old 09-24-2017, 04:36 PM
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I've been stewing about this all day. I'm all for the players taking a knee, not being on the field, etc. Trump continues to add fuel to the fire with his idiotic rhetoric, which had nothing to do with him in the first place. Kudos to the players in both the NFL and NBA for showing solidarity.
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Old 09-24-2017, 09:04 PM
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Not only is it their right, but the very idea that a silent and peaceful protest is disrespectful to the flag/anthem/veterans is lost on me. Since when the hell is taking a knee disrespectful? Isn't the action itself rooted in reverence and humility?? I commend Kaepernick for starting this movement, but his whole point has been completely misconstrued to an easier talking point.

I keep hearing people referencing respect the veterans, then when you ask the actual veterans many completely respect the players decision. Not to say that they all do, of course. But 9/10 I find that the vets who have been made to feel uncomfortable by this act are not fully clued in on what Kaep's message is, or they're chauvinistic. Contrary to popular belief, being a vet doesn't automatically make you a saint. Nonetheless, there is a gray area where vets are both clued in and offended, and I do regret that. However, taking a knee to ask that the anthem be true for everyone is commendable. In my personal opinion.

I've also found that bringing up athlete salaries has become another point to hide behind. It's along the some branch of "Kaep can't speak up on oppression because he's rich", as if that makes him incapable of seeing those less fortunate.

Any doubts that I had about this not being about respect were answered today. Players kneeled, and some members of the crowd boo'd: during the anthem they're demanding the players respect.
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Old 09-24-2017, 09:33 PM
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Trump was fine with people carrying nazi flags but pro athletes taking a knee is where he draws the line? Weird.

There aren't a whole lot of things that get me worked up--some people I've never met not standing for a national anthem sure as hell isn't one of them. Whether I agree with the cause or not, I have a hard time getting upset about any sort of non-violent protest.
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Old 09-24-2017, 10:44 PM
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It's insulting to anyone in a wheel chair or confined to their beds. Possibly to anyone who does not have a right hand.

Otherwise, the military is pretty tough, I think they will be ok.
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Old 09-25-2017, 07:07 PM
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Does it really matter? A lot of people claim it's disrespectful to kneel or sit during the national anthem, but I disagree. Some people pretend America is perfect, and everyone needs to support it no matter what. That's ridiculous. America has very real problems right now, and people need to do something about it.

I'm not even sure if kneeling is really doing anything, but it's their constitutional right to do so. The players shouldn't be fired and they're certainly not what Trump called them. It was a stupid thing to say (again...) and he's losing supporters. He needs to step it up.
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