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  #11  
Old 07-07-2017, 09:42 PM
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theres only one man who should've ended the streak and that was Scott Steiner.. once he took over the nWo they should've shot him straight up the card; demolishing people left and right, even to the horror of the rest of the black and white at times as they pull him off his victims.

Ill even go one better and say that his leadership of the black and white should have come at Hogans expense; beating him down and assuming leadership.

Have him take out Hall, Nash and Sting as well since they'd all be without a proper program come Starrcade anyways and have him win World War 3.

At Starrcade he and Goldberg have a knock down drag out fight where Scott wins via repeated head shots form the lead pipe that he'd start carrying around and from there he becomes the biggest heel in the company.

Have a returning Nash, Luger and Goldberg challenge Steiner, Giant and Hennig to a 6 man on Jan 4th Nitro and reform the nWo with all the top players minus Hogan.

Goldberg runs through the new nWo until he gets to Steiner and this is where Hogan returns in the red and yellow to fight off the nWo and help Goldberg regain the belt. Hogan goes into a program with Steiner and Goldberg gets defeated by Bret Hart at Starrcade 99 for his first clean loss.

Last edited by relentless1 : 07-07-2017 at 09:44 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-08-2017, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by relentless1 View Post
theres only one man who should've ended the streak and that was Scott Steiner.. once he took over the nWo they should've shot him straight up the card; demolishing people left and right, even to the horror of the rest of the black and white at times as they pull him off his victims.

Ill even go one better and say that his leadership of the black and white should have come at Hogans expense; beating him down and assuming leadership.
100% with this comment.

WCW needed to think of the future, Steiner defeating Goldberg while Hogan, Nash and all the rest of the NWO couldn't would have sent out shockwaves.

It may have given the NWO that bit of freshness it needed as well or at least would have made the last few months of it interesting with Steiner at the helm creating his own faction.
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  #13  
Old 07-10-2017, 09:33 PM
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Even in WCW's early days (and before when it was JCP) were better booked than 1998-99 WCW. Even the Crocketts made new stars in Luger, Sting among others not WCW.
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  #14  
Old 07-11-2017, 07:37 AM
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hindsight is a beautiful thing......its very clear to see the reason why having Goldberg finally lose was booked, just the aftermath, injuries and poor booking made the loss irrelevant and Goldberg just became another character. The nWo were reforming with Hogan, Hall, Nash, Luger, Steiner and Bagwell, a super group of only 6 but both Hall and Luger went down injured, and plans went to dissarray. Hogan vs Nash was forever a blight...Goldberg didn't get a rematch for his title as it didnt get defended at Souled Out 99, Hogan vs Flair headlined Superbrawl and Uncensored then DDP won the belt in tyhe fatal 4 way at spring stampede whilst Goldberg was to feud with Bret Hart which would have been great, and was getting mainstream exposure on Leno..until Owen died and that angle died with it. WCW failing was for many reasons...Goldberg dropping the title should have opened up many great booking options, having Goldberg go through nWo one by one until he got to whomever held the belt at Starcade 1999, hisotry suggests otherwise
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  #15  
Old 07-12-2017, 06:22 PM
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Easiest way to book the WCW World title that way. Goldberg regains the title and leads WCW into the 21st century.
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  #16  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
The only problem with this is.....when did WCW create anything? All of their major stars were Vince creations. They just happened to stumble on Goldberg, not because of his work, but because of his "look."... Bischoff was good at opening up Uncle Ted's checkbook and signing away ready-made stars from Vince. .
This is pretty much how wrestling works....Remember Vince didn't create Hogan, Piper, Savage, Greg Valentine, Harley Race, Junkyard Dog, Adrian Adonis, Kamala, The Road Warriors, The Brain Busters, Ric Flair, Lex Luger.....he took them all from other companies and presented them with little or no change to their look & presentation and character. Vince was the king at stealing other people's work and plugging it into his programming.
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  #17  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:52 PM
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So, what happened after Starrcade 97? Surprisingly enough, after that horrible event, WCW was still well in the lead of the WWF. Did they truly have the better programming during the months that followed Starrcade 97? IMO, no they did not. They ruined the huge payoff that should've been Hogan vs Sting and somehow, the nWo was still dominating the main event scene. Oh sure, Sting was in the main event scene in the months that followed Starrcade, but his mystique and popularity that had been built up over the prior 18 months so masterfully was quickly beginning to fade. So WCW went back to the nWo well and kept Hogan, Hall, and Nash on top. So if WCW's programming wasn't better than WWF's at the time, why were they still winning the war? I believe it was out of habit of the fans watching WCW. Sure their programming was beginning to grow stale, tired, and boring and WWF was doing some great new and exciting things, but it was going to take a little while for the fans and the numbers to reflect that. Sure enough, in April of 98, that's what would happen. WWF would finally get a win in the ratings war between Nitro and Raw to end Nitro's well documented 84 week winning streak over Raw.

Why did that happen? Again, it was because WWF was doing new and exciting things at the time. They were pushing the bar and pushing new and young stars. Of all the major stars for the WWF during the Attitude Era, none were former stars of the 80's. Turn to WCW and what did you see around this time? Hogan, Macho Man, Flair, Piper, and some other 'veteran stars'. Hall and Nash were by no means in that category. They were newer stars, only having recently made it big in the mid 90s, however, at this point they had already been on top of WCW for 2 years and again, they were continuing to do the same old same old with them. So what WCW needed was a fresh new face to go up against the old tired monster that was the nWo and they got it in the form of Goldberg.

Goldberg had only just debuted for the WCW in September of 97. He didn't speak, do long interviews, or even do long matches. He would come out, hit somebody a few times, spear them, and then Jackhammer them and that was that. You'd think that it would take more than that to get someone over, but by the summer of 98, Goldberg was arguably the hottest commodity in all of wrestling. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that everybody can do what Goldberg did. I mean he had a look like no other and the intensity that he brought to the ring was matched by nobody. He looked and acted like he could legit beat anyone's ass in the arena on any given night and that was something that was uncoachable. Also, what helped, is that he didn't start off beating the top guys that WCW had to offer. He started beating people like Hugh Morris and others. People that the fans would believe that he could straight up beat. So Goldberg, doing his routine, started to get a lot of traction and the next thing that you know, he has a streak going of consecutive wins.

In a moment of either genius or stupidity (that's a discussion for another day) Hogan has this huge idea to drop the title to Goldberg on an episode of Nitro. On the episode of Thunder the preceded this historic Nirto, the announcement was made that Goldberg would face Hollywood Hulk Hogan for the WCW Championship on the next Nitro. Cut to that Nitro and they had a live audience of what some say was over 40 thousand people and needless to say, they won the ratings war that night. So now you have this hot young star as your new mega face and behind him WCW was definitely keeping pace with the WWF in the ratings war. They were no longer dominating like they had before, but they weren't really losing either. They were trading wins from the summer of 98 all the way through the end of the year, but this is WCW we're talking about so they had to ruin it.

So here we are, at the biggest WCW event of the year and yet again, they have another huge main event for Starrcade. It wasn't as big as the previous Starrcade, but it was big in its own right. The undefeated WCW Champion Goldberg vs Kevin Nash. Goldberg is on fire at this point. He's every bit as hot as Austin or the Rock or anyone. Behind his success, the WCW is still managing to not only compete with the WWF but a lot of the time beat the WWF. Nash was yesterday's news in the WCW. He had already been on top for so long. Surely Goldberg was going to beat him, keep his streak and title, and go on to feud with some more younger stars before WCW realized that his mystique and aura were fading and it was time for him to lose and then they'd use Goldberg to make another young guy a made man; right? I mean, it's obvious right? Once again, obviously not because I'm writing this thread. No, what does WCW do? They have Scott Hall come out, taze Goldberg with a cattle prod, and then have him lose to Nash at Starrcade 98.

Instead of getting as much traction as they could out of Goldberg, which IMO, he had a lot of traction left. Instead of letting this huge mega star fade naturally, they seemingly killed his career right then and there. Oh, but wait, there's more. A mere 8 days after killing all the momentum that they had garnered as a result of Goldberg, they have a title match on Nitro between the new Champ Nash and the old guy Hogan. We all know what happened there. Finger Poke of Doom and boom, Hogan's the champ, the nWo is reformed and back at it, and they had just dealt a mortal wound to WCW. Even if they somehow managed to do everything right after this atrocity, I don't think they could've stopped the bleeding. We know from history, though, they didn't do everything right after this. More on those situations later.

So WCW allowed their old guys that had been on top since day one to halt the momentum of this young, exciting, fresh, intense guy who was the reason why they were still able to compete with the WWF at that point in time. Trust me people, if there had of been no Goldberg, WCW would've folded about 2 years before it did. Vice versa, if they hadn't of seemingly killed off Goldberg, then who knows what would've happened after that. Of course, Nash will tell you that it was in an effort to create a long list of heels for Goldberg to run through in his chase of the Championship. That's all well and good when you're chasing the title, however, Goldberg had already beaten the top heel in the company and was on fire. Why not let him ride that wave of momentum for as long as possible, then create some new bad ass heel to come in and take out Goldberg, essentially creating some new stars in the process. Instead, they had the same old same old on top and the same old same old screwy, dumb ass decisions that made Starrcade 97 what it was. Nash and Hogan weren't in it for the success of WCW. They were in it for the success of Nash and Hogan and WCW officials just allowed them to do whatever the hell they wanted. Then they wondered why people were tuning in to watch Raw over Nitro. SMH........
Starrcade wasn't bad because of Nash.....Goldberg was 176-0 at this point, he had been undefeated for a year and half, having him lose as way of opening up new storyline possibilities wasn't a bad call at all.

Starrcade 98 was bad because of the undercard....actually what was the undercard, I ATTENDED THIS SHOW and I cant remember anything from it except the top 2 matches. Oh wait, I vaguely remember DDP being thrown into a throw away match with little build up against Big Show and getting a win, OK I have some memory of maybe three moments on the whole show.

The crowd in DC was DEAD....the undercard SUCKED, cruiserweights NO ONE cared about bouncing around like soccer balls in matches with no storyline (IE no reason I should care), NONE OF THEM good enough to actually be remembered. Where were the Four Horsemen ? Why didn't Scott Steiner have an important role ? I literally remember being there with friends and almost FALLING ASLEEP until they sent Flair out for a promo, THE ONLY time outside the top 2 matches anyone on the audience cheered and popped for anything, I honestly thought they (WCW) sent him out on the fly just to wake the crowd up!!

So once again, in a huge show with a huge audience (Did WWE have a PPV outside of Mania that outdrew this, the number for SC 98 was almost as good as SC 97 which was a blockbuster) and the basically phone 3/4 of the show with no promotion, no build up, wasting our times on jobbers and unknowns.

I don't have an issue with Nash winning the belt, there were hardly any stars in WCW who could believably end The Streak, and Nash was the best, his promo about his year long undefeated streak as WWE Champ was brilliant! Now, I'm never happy with confusing endings at PPV that are designed to make you watch the TV show on Monday to see what they mean (like Scott Hall, avowed enemy of Nash, long absent from WCW programming, showing up unexpectedly and helping Nash win, apparently without his approval). However, I'm not opposed to maybe ONE of the key matches ending like that on a major show as way to maintain interest and change the storyline, except SC 98 gave us....

BOTH MAIN EVENTS ended like that.....Essentially WCW wanted to prolong the World Title/Streak storyline into the new year so they decided to build the final Nitro of 1998 (the night after SC 98) around the other Main Event, Ric Flair's return, with his loss to Eric Bischoff in their grudge match. If I'm booking, knowing I'm already sending fans home confused over the ending of Nash-Goldberg, then I'm definitely giving them Flair in clear fashion over Bischoff. Bischoff isn't a wrestler, his character as a non wrestler cowardly heel is easy fodder for Flair to beat. Look at Vince McMahon, he was smart enough to know fans wouldn't accept him beating actual wrestlers in big PPV matches so pretty much every time he ends up in the ring he loses, cleanly, clearly, putting over HBK, Flair, Hogan, DX, Brett Hart, etc. Basically *&*&*& the fans by allowing Bischoff to screw job Flair just to so they build Nitro around the rematch (meaning they can save furthering the Nash storyline for at least another Nitro) was one of the worst booking decisions WCW made during this time. The booking of the match was nonsensical too, Bischoff only has one NwO guy (Henning, another long absent from WCW Programming guy) and Flair has NO ONE, the non wrestler coward who leads the baddest faction in the company goes into a wrestling match with almost no back up and the Dirtiest Player In the Game, who leads his own faction of heel like bad *&*&, brings nobody..... Lets just say that match finish went over about as well with that audience in DC as a Dallas Cowboys shut out win over the Redskins would.

Now I get that WCW had a lot of top talent on IR (Sting, Brett Hart, & Luger were all out injured) but there is no reason why Scott Steiner, who was way over in his new heel persona, didn't have a major match, DDP vs The Giant should have gotten way more build up, and the match Flair & Bishcoff put on the following night in Baltimore should have been the one they did in DC for the PPV.

Interest in the top of the card was still fueling WCW at this time, while they squandered more of the mid and lower card their main event scene, even without Sting/Luger/Hart kept ratings high in early 99 (twice topping the 5.0 mark in Feb) and the SuperBrawl PPV drew huge numbers, so its hard to say SC 98 really hurt the company much, if anything the storyline that followed early on generated a lot of interest. It wasn't a good show though, as usual lots of wasted potential and poorly constructed matches.
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  #18  
Old 07-18-2017, 05:19 AM
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Like I said before, using a taser on Goldberg was a great idea; he loses but he remains strong because nobody else on the WCW roster or even WWFs roster at that time was presented as being so tough that you needed to electrocute then in order to beat them in a match! Not Foley, not Taker, not Kane, not Sting... nobody was kayfabe that tough so it was a great way to handle Goldbergs first loss...

Hall didn't appear out of nowhere, ever since Nash saved him from a black and white ass kicking at WW3 he'd been trying to get back into the Wolfpac on Nitro but Nash refused saying he couldn't trust him, afterwards Nash claimed he knew nothing about the interference from hall and stated that he was just misguided in trying to renew the friendship with Nash so it made perfect sense storyline wise.

Everything that happened from March 1999 onwards was the swift and brutal decline of WCWs on air product, frankly those who think that Starrcade 98/FPOD were these huge blunders have been watching too much WWE Network.
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  #19  
Old 08-02-2017, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
The only problem with this is.....when did WCW create anything? All of their major stars were Vince creations. They just happened to stumble on Goldberg, not because of his work, but because of his "look." He looked exactly like a certain character on the other channel and he got over. But anything WCW tried to "create" ended up more often than not in failure. Bischoff was good at opening up Uncle Ted's checkbook and signing away ready-made stars from Vince. The only way WCW would've been able to get a new "bad-ass heel" is to have signed him from the WWF.

You left off the part where Bischoff leaves shortly after the FPOD. That to me signaled "the end" more than anything. Nash takes over the book and it's week to week booking. Nash is trying to balance the "old guys" on top with the "younger guys" coming up and it's not working. Obviously Nash has his "vision" and it's more or less '80's WWF mixed with the '90's "New Generation". He claims he was hamstrung in his creativity by Standards and Practices but who knows. I don't think anything could've "saved" WCW at this point. They were clearly losing to the WWF and Russo coming in was the nail in the coffin.
They've gotta get credit for creating Sting and then reinventing him as crow Sting, and also for reinventing Hogan though.
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  #20  
Old 08-02-2017, 11:15 PM
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They've gotta get credit for creating Sting and then reinventing him as crow Sting, and also for reinventing Hogan though.
Pretty sure sting created his original gimmick for the Nwa.
And Scott hall has been given credit for coming up with the crow sting idea.

Which was originally exactly like the movie it was inspired from.
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