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  #21  
Old 06-16-2017, 03:22 AM
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Alexa Bliss blew up really quickly and that is the immediate issue, IMO. I think Bayley's character was played out in NXT and the NXT audience and WWE audience is different. Trying the same underdog/fangirl gimmick didn't catch on with the more mainstream audience.

Back to Alexa though, here's the problem.... Alexa got pushed hard and she ran with it and rose to the top. So, she was the top girl on Smackdown and arguably in WWE. WWE seemed to be teasing a Sasha heel turn and feud with Bayley. When they switched up Alexa and Charlotte, they couldn't put Alexa in a secondary feud on RAW so she jumped right ahead of Bayley and the presumed Sasha-Bayley feud. Rather than burying both Bayley and Sasha, they could have had Alexa in the title picture and sasha bayley as a secondary feud.
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  #22  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:05 AM
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Okay, for mine this was a booking problem.

1st you had the hill to climb, overcoming the odds and becoming womans champion. Instead of leaving that star making moment to Wrestlemania, they do it at a nothing RAW for no apparent reason without appropriate build.

Then you have the breaking of Charlottes PPV streak. Which instead of doing at Wrestlemania, they did at the pissy PPV just before Mania that fuck all people watched.

Then you have some throwaway fatal 4 way where Bayley beats her biggest adversaries. All of this should have happened at once. To make her look like a star on the biggest stage I think could have made all the difference.
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  #23  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by LoudClearVoice View Post
Alexa Bliss blew up really quickly and that is the immediate issue, IMO. I think Bayley's character was played out in NXT and the NXT audience and WWE audience is different. Trying the same underdog/fangirl gimmick didn't catch on with the more mainstream audience.

Back to Alexa though, here's the problem.... Alexa got pushed hard and she ran with it and rose to the top. So, she was the top girl on Smackdown and arguably in WWE. WWE seemed to be teasing a Sasha heel turn and feud with Bayley. When they switched up Alexa and Charlotte, they couldn't put Alexa in a secondary feud on RAW so she jumped right ahead of Bayley and the presumed Sasha-Bayley feud. Rather than burying both Bayley and Sasha, they could have had Alexa in the title picture and sasha bayley as a secondary feud.
Alexa was white hot on SmackDown, and in a way is still hot today; i'm guessing Vince saw what she was doing on SmackDown and immediately saw money in her, maybe more than he ever did with Bayley.
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  #24  
Old 06-16-2017, 12:24 PM
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I think that the WWE is trying to appeal to many different fanbases all at once, and thus some fans will feel alienated by how certain wrestlers are used.

I don't know how Bayley feels about how the WWE has been making her look weak, or even if she sees it that way. I'm sure that some performers are just satisfied to be on tv with a gimmick that sells shirts.

Bayley is playing a character who just can't cross the blurry line that separates fighting your opponent fairly and using weapons even if she's in a match where use of weapons are permitted. I imagine that this endears her to happy households where if they witness a remotely evil act perpetrated on tv they'll quickly change the channel back to the Disney channel. Bayley might lose all the time, but she didn't lose her spirit or some bullshit.

I think that Bayley would do well if she took some time off and did one of those anti-bullying tours of elementary schools. Maybe have her as a surprise entrant in a Survivor Series women's tag match just to give the rest of us some time to miss her a little bit.
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  #25  
Old 06-16-2017, 06:03 PM
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She's not doing badly at all... you get a turn, but it's not a long one these days... that's the reality of life as a champion in WWE... it gets changed up far quicker than it ever did... if you get a solid 3 months, you've done well.

Bayley as a gimmick is in the same situation that Adam Rose was when coming up from NXT... the smaller scale and relative freshness of the gimmick in that setting was what got them over and the "smarks" interested to be chanting "this is awesome" etc...

The problem is, by definition, those gimmicks are the ones people hate most on the main roster... and are almost now conditioned to thanks to Cena and Roman...

Bayley on the main roster is going to be as dull and hated as Cena endlessly playing "goody two shoes" or Reigns trying to be the babyface hero... The sad thing is the gimmick does fit Bayley far better than it ever did either of those two guys... but they've ruined it for everyone...

When WWE has used women in that role before, like Molly, there's normally a wrinkle to it that makes them a heel...even when it's the guys like Kurt Angle or the Right To Censor who are being "whiter than white" they were heels.

For a face "goody two shoes" who isn't being a heel, at least under the radar, there aren't too many great stories they can have... it's either an underdog chase/redemption arc, which they've done or... the obvious relationship angle... perhaps that's where her "acting" would be exposed most... it's also quite awkward to play the whole "Never Been Kissed" angle they seem to want to go when she is known to have a boyfriend off-screen (and gay as a lot of morons seem to assume.)

Pretty much any other story forces her to become slightly heel in some way, which they don't want...

Is it unfair? perhaps as Bayley IS great at what she does... but while everyone saw Charlotte being a star (and getting more leeway cos of her lineage) and Sasha and Becky being the big names when they were all in NXT, people forgot Alexa was there... Her rise has been a bittersweet thing for WWE... they now have a cracking heel for their women's divisions... but their big face hope seems to be the casualty of that... they can't push Alexa as a strong heel for the future AND Bayley as the face version at the same time... they've chosen Alexa, rightly in my view as there's more potential for stories...

The way to get Bayley back on track is to bring back Molly Holly, or at the outside Beth Phoenix as a manager/mentor who encourages her to fight/gains her trust and then turns on her, a bit like Karate Kid 3. That would give Bayley a reason to become tougher/more ruthless as a character and have more of an edge to her career going forward... fool me once etc...
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  #26  
Old 06-16-2017, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
She's not doing badly at all... you get a turn, but it's not a long one these days... that's the reality of life as a champion in WWE... it gets changed up far quicker than it ever did... if you get a solid 3 months, you've done well.

Bayley as a gimmick is in the same situation that Adam Rose was when coming up from NXT... the smaller scale and relative freshness of the gimmick in that setting was what got them over and the "smarks" interested to be chanting "this is awesome" etc...

The problem is, by definition, those gimmicks are the ones people hate most on the main roster... and are almost now conditioned to thanks to Cena and Roman...

Bayley on the main roster is going to be as dull and hated as Cena endlessly playing "goody two shoes" or Reigns trying to be the babyface hero... The sad thing is the gimmick does fit Bayley far better than it ever did either of those two guys... but they've ruined it for everyone...

When WWE has used women in that role before, like Molly, there's normally a wrinkle to it that makes them a heel...even when it's the guys like Kurt Angle or the Right To Censor who are being "whiter than white" they were heels.

For a face "goody two shoes" who isn't being a heel, at least under the radar, there aren't too many great stories they can have... it's either an underdog chase/redemption arc, which they've done or... the obvious relationship angle... perhaps that's where her "acting" would be exposed most... it's also quite awkward to play the whole "Never Been Kissed" angle they seem to want to go when she is known to have a boyfriend off-screen (and gay as a lot of morons seem to assume.)

Pretty much any other story forces her to become slightly heel in some way, which they don't want...

Is it unfair? perhaps as Bayley IS great at what she does... but while everyone saw Charlotte being a star (and getting more leeway cos of her lineage) and Sasha and Becky being the big names when they were all in NXT, people forgot Alexa was there... Her rise has been a bittersweet thing for WWE... they now have a cracking heel for their women's divisions... but their big face hope seems to be the casualty of that... they can't push Alexa as a strong heel for the future AND Bayley as the face version at the same time... they've chosen Alexa, rightly in my view as there's more potential for stories...

The way to get Bayley back on track is to bring back Molly Holly, or at the outside Beth Phoenix as a manager/mentor who encourages her to fight/gains her trust and then turns on her, a bit like Karate Kid 3. That would give Bayley a reason to become tougher/more ruthless as a character and have more of an edge to her career going forward... fool me once etc...
You summed it up a whole lot better than I ever could've. And your idea to revive Bayley's character sounds like something I can get behind. (Personally, i'd also consider giving this role to Mickie James, she does have the vet credibility that would make it work)

P.S: I just now saw this article about how to revive Bayley's career and I figured I share this with you and potentially discuss about.

http://popculture.com/wwe/2017/06/15/bayley-wwe-nxt/

My Opinion: The idea of having Bayley potentially returning 'home' to NXT sounds like an intriguing idea on paper, but the idea of Bayley losing EVERY match until she gets demoted sounds maybe a little too risky.

So how would I go about it?: Well, with Emma recently returning; you could have her feud with Bayley for a little while, telling her that she 'told her' she would struggle like she did on the main roster and get into her mind a little bit; at first, she doesn't seem to notice and keeps doing her thing, but as the fans continue to turn on her; she begins to start to struggle. This is not helped by Emma tormenting her with mind games.

From there, something snaps. She challenges Emma to a match at whatever PPV comes next and she accepts. The two compete in a good match, but it seems like Bayley is holding back; and this ends up costing her the match. The next night, Emma verbally tears into her; proving once and for all that being nice may have started out fun at first, but as time passes, it turns out to be her kryptonite and what ultimately will keep her from ever being what she could have been.

Suffering from a loss of confidence, Bayley begins to question whether or not she can do it on this level any longer; the losses continue to pile up until she finally hits rock bottom. To do this, you get Izzy to come over and admit her fandom to, say Alexa Bliss. That's enough for her to breakdown in a pile of tears as a friend of her's (Sasha Banks most likely) goes to comfort her.

The next week, a solemn Bayley comes to the ring, no inflatable buddies, no hugs, no nothing. Instead, you just get normal Bayley. She gives a passionate speech on how much she loves wrestling and loves fighting for the fans, but realizes that she can't keep letting her fans down any longer.

And then, the bombshell; she reveals that she went to Triple H's office and openly requested to put her back in NXT. She explains that this move would help her find her 'killer instinct' that she now admits she lost along the journey upward. But she assures herself and the fans that one day, she will return better than she ever was and thanks them for all their support. She leaves the ring, hugs a few lucky members of the audience...

And poof! You have her go to NXT, have her fight some of the girls there and after sometime has passed, you either bring her back for Survivor Series or just after Wrestlemania season as a more serious, more ruthless, but still lovable competitor.

But again, this is just one way to go about it; you guys have come up with a lot of great ways to revive the Bayley character and I truly am happy that we're having this discussion right now. As someone who wants to go into writing in the future, this really has helped the catalyst that sparked the 'road to redemption' storyline for Bayley. The one you just now heard.

So, why stop there? Let's keep going and enter in the Hug Express and keep this debate/discussion/bi-curious wrestlefest going for a little while longer.
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  #27  
Old 06-17-2017, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by The Gribbler View Post
Okay, for mine this was a booking problem.

1st you had the hill to climb, overcoming the odds and becoming womans champion. Instead of leaving that star making moment to Wrestlemania, they do it at a nothing RAW for no apparent reason without appropriate build.

Then you have the breaking of Charlottes PPV streak. Which instead of doing at Wrestlemania, they did at the pissy PPV just before Mania that fuck all people watched.

Then you have some throwaway fatal 4 way where Bayley beats her biggest adversaries. All of this should have happened at once. To make her look like a star on the biggest stage I think could have made all the difference.
This is all that needs to be said, giving Bayley the title in the least dramatic fashion completely ruined her character. She was the female version of Sami Zayn(who still hasn't even won a title and has gained popularity) and should be receiving the same type of booking he's had since he debuted, but WWE screwed to pooch and ruined what should have been a great character in the women's division.
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  #28  
Old 06-17-2017, 04:00 AM
LoudClearVoice LoudClearVoice is offline
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Originally Posted by WWE66 View Post
You summed it up a whole lot better than I ever could've. And your idea to revive Bayley's character sounds like something I can get behind. (Personally, i'd also consider giving this role to Mickie James, she does have the vet credibility that would make it work)

P.S: I just now saw this article about how to revive Bayley's career and I figured I share this with you and potentially discuss about.

http://popculture.com/wwe/2017/06/15/bayley-wwe-nxt/

My Opinion: The idea of having Bayley potentially returning 'home' to NXT sounds like an intriguing idea on paper, but the idea of Bayley losing EVERY match until she gets demoted sounds maybe a little too risky.

So how would I go about it?: Well, with Emma recently returning; you could have her feud with Bayley for a little while, telling her that she 'told her' she would struggle like she did on the main roster and get into her mind a little bit; at first, she doesn't seem to notice and keeps doing her thing, but as the fans continue to turn on her; she begins to start to struggle. This is not helped by Emma tormenting her with mind games.

From there, something snaps. She challenges Emma to a match at whatever PPV comes next and she accepts. The two compete in a good match, but it seems like Bayley is holding back; and this ends up costing her the match. The next night, Emma verbally tears into her; proving once and for all that being nice may have started out fun at first, but as time passes, it turns out to be her kryptonite and what ultimately will keep her from ever being what she could have been.

Suffering from a loss of confidence, Bayley begins to question whether or not she can do it on this level any longer; the losses continue to pile up until she finally hits rock bottom. To do this, you get Izzy to come over and admit her fandom to, say Alexa Bliss. That's enough for her to breakdown in a pile of tears as a friend of her's (Sasha Banks most likely) goes to comfort her.

The next week, a solemn Bayley comes to the ring, no inflatable buddies, no hugs, no nothing. Instead, you just get normal Bayley. She gives a passionate speech on how much she loves wrestling and loves fighting for the fans, but realizes that she can't keep letting her fans down any longer.

And then, the bombshell; she reveals that she went to Triple H's office and openly requested to put her back in NXT. She explains that this move would help her find her 'killer instinct' that she now admits she lost along the journey upward. But she assures herself and the fans that one day, she will return better than she ever was and thanks them for all their support. She leaves the ring, hugs a few lucky members of the audience...

And poof! You have her go to NXT, have her fight some of the girls there and after sometime has passed, you either bring her back for Survivor Series or just after Wrestlemania season as a more serious, more ruthless, but still lovable competitor.

But again, this is just one way to go about it; you guys have come up with a lot of great ways to revive the Bayley character and I truly am happy that we're having this discussion right now. As someone who wants to go into writing in the future, this really has helped the catalyst that sparked the 'road to redemption' storyline for Bayley. The one you just now heard.

So, why stop there? Let's keep going and enter in the Hug Express and keep this debate/discussion/bi-curious wrestlefest going for a little while longer.
I like it! Would you chance having her be the one to beat Asuka? After all, she is the one who lost the title to Asuka. If she were "demoted" back to NXT but then was the first one to beat Asuka, that might give her a huge boost. She could have a short run with the title before dropping it and coming back up to the main roster and possibly feuding with Asuka on the main roster.

The thing is, that would really destroy what they have planned for Ember Moon, which I believe is to have Ember Moon beat Asuka at Takeover Brooklyn III.

Long term however, this would be better for Bayley, the fans, and WWE as Bayley is a huge money maker
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  #29  
Old 06-17-2017, 10:38 AM
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Nikki Cross is taking the title from Asuka soon, that much is clear...

Sending Bayley back is a bad idea... it shows that they failed but that she is carrying the can for that failiure. The only times that has ever worked in the past were with Henry and Big Show and both times they legit needed the seasoning/their attitudes adjusting... but more importantly they were on $1m a year 10 year deals... so a year out of that time in developmental vs what they got back was a fair risk.

Bayley doesn't have an attitude problem OR need seasoning... she needs to be used better in a crowded division where others seem to be the focus. She found a niche with her gimmick and perhaps was told not to bother learning others as "that's what we're gonna make you a star with" and if so, WWE did her a disservice.

I think the best way, rather than NXT is to put her in the Mae Young Classic and have her go pretty much all the way... I am sure one of the new Japanese women will win it... but if she can go to the semis and "hang" with them, then that reboots Bayley as a more serious competitor.

Oh and BTW in my previous post I meant to type NOT Gay... bad typo to make.
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  #30  
Old 06-17-2017, 12:46 PM
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I like it! Would you chance having her be the one to beat Asuka? After all, she is the one who lost the title to Asuka. If she were "demoted" back to NXT but then was the first one to beat Asuka, that might give her a huge boost. She could have a short run with the title before dropping it and coming back up to the main roster and possibly feuding with Asuka on the main roster.

The thing is, that would really destroy what they have planned for Ember Moon, which I believe is to have Ember Moon beat Asuka at Takeover Brooklyn III.

Long term however, this would be better for Bayley, the fans, and WWE as Bayley is a huge money maker
Probably not, at this point she's likely too big for the NXT women's title.
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