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  #11  
Old 05-18-2017, 04:00 AM
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Viewing the responses just now and i cant say im surprised. I may have botched the title a little bit. Maybe i should have said List of favorite wrestlers in the world including charisma. But i did say in my description i havent watched much of the indys so therefore i cant really put them as high as they might be. But based off of just wrestling skills, selling and in match charisma. my top 10 would consist of :

10. Zach sabre Jr 9. Dolph ziggler 8. Sami zayn 7. Will ospreay 6. Okada 5. Naito 4. Nakamura 3. Kota ibushi 2. Kenny omega 1. AJ styles.
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  #12  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:49 AM
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Overall exposure. If you asked somebody who dolph ziggler is chances are they know. same with cody rhodes. ask somebody about okada and they probably wont. thats literally the only reason i put him where he is that and i only seen a hand full of his matches.
So what do you think about Cena and Reigns? Neither of these two are on your list but they have more exposure and I'd say are superior to Dolph in all areas. I find they entertain me more than Dolph too!
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  #13  
Old 05-22-2017, 12:13 PM
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If I asked any random person if they knew who Dolph Ziggler is, their response would most likely be the question, "Does he work in the adult film industry?"
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  #14  
Old 05-25-2017, 05:04 AM
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Because cena and reigns simply dont cut it in the ring. You need to be well known and great in the ring. There is no doubt theirs a hundred guys on the planet with better wrestling skills then john cena. There are only certain guys who have both and an it factor.
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  #15  
Old 05-25-2017, 05:19 AM
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Wrestling is much better in the ring now than in the past, I think. There are multiple promotions tending to multiple interests. You can have high flying action, technical match, or whatever you like.

Lots of good wrestlers. I would keep AJ Styles as the best in the ring currently. Kenny Omega is awesome. Okada is good as well. Drew McIntyre/Galloway is great to watch. Ethan Carter III has improved a lot in the ring. He's a TNA's homegrown star. Cesaro is very good in the ring. Lots for f good wrestlers.
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  #16  
Old 05-25-2017, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by swallop View Post
Because cena and reigns simply don't cut it in the ring.
I have to completely disagree. I would absolutely put Cena above Ziggler and Miz when it comes to in ring ability! Same for Reigns... probably.

What do you think Ziggler's best match is? I literally can't think of any right now, but I haven't been a regular watcher in some time. I would probably be classed as a Cena hater but damn he has had some classics. Against Punk, Bryan, Owens.

Reigns, I'll admit I haven't quite seen as much of him. But on the PPV's I watched, he always delivered. Against Styles, Wyatt, even Big Show that one time. My favourite match of his was vs Lesnar. Absolute classic in my opinion!
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  #17  
Old 05-25-2017, 05:57 PM
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Cena has had tons of great matches because the wwe wants him to have a great match. If dolph and cena walked onto an indy scene guess who would put on the better match with exact amounts of time and match booking? the wwe hides cenas in ring ability by the crazy stuff they do in his matches. John has had great great matches like against punk and against styles but the other person was the main reason why the match was so great. cena has good in ring awareness dont get me wrong but there is no doubt ziggler is miles ahead of him as far as crispness and in ring work. And dolphs best match might be the double turn against del rio. I believe it was payback 2013. That or his career threatening match against miz last year. those 2 matches were awesome.
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  #18  
Old 05-25-2017, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by swallop View Post
Cena has had tons of great matches because the wwe wants him to have a great match.
Cena has great matches because he is a great performer.

Quote:
If dolph and cena walked onto an indy scene guess who would put on the better match with exact amounts of time and match booking?
In ring ability is subjective. I think Ziggler is garbage in the ring. So it wouldn't matter where he performed. If you like Ziggler, more power to you I guess.

On the other hand, I think Cena is a great performer. You could place him in any promotion in the world and he'd have quality matches.

Quote:
the wwe hides cenas in ring ability by the crazy stuff they do in his matches.
LOL no. They don't.

Quote:
John has had great great matches like against punk and against styles but the other person was the main reason why the match was so great.
It takes two great workers to put on a great match. If Cena were really that subpar of a performer, then the best workers around would only be able to get an average match out of him.

Quote:
cena has good in ring awareness dont get me wrong but there is no doubt ziggler is miles ahead of him as far as crispness and in ring work.
Ziggler bumbles around like a buffoon, and flops around like a fish out of water. There's nothing "crispy" about his ring work or his selling. I get it, you hate Cena. But you don't have to blatantly make stuff up to try and justify that hate.
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  #19  
Old 05-25-2017, 08:02 PM
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Ziggler would fail massively on the indy scene. The WWE style hides his shortcomings. He has almost zero offense and the offensive moveset that he does have is often nonsensical and rarely looks special or well-placed. His only positive attributes that he has as a worker are how animatedly large he makes his movements(something that would be far less necessary and look far more overdone in an army, union hall, or high school gym than it does in front of 12,000 people) and his willingness to overtake bumps and toss himself around like a crash test dummy(not a rare trait for smallish or mid-sized midcard indy performers right now). Ziggler would have even more trouble than Cody Rhodes(a far more complete worker) is having putting up consistently satisfying indy performances.

As for Cena, if by a ridiculous miracle of unimaginable circumstances, ended up touring the indy circuit, he'd spend the whole time wrestling main events against the top guys available and delivering 4+ star matches... basically exactly what he's done in WWE in all of his big one-on-one matches against great wrestlers since hitting his stride as an in-ring competitor 5-6 years ago.
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2017, 01:11 AM
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Zero offense? i agree hes only on offense like 30% of the time thats because hes a great seller. But look at that nakamura match on backlash he was on offense like 80% of the time and people complained nakamura didnt show off enough. No pun intended. But i thought the match was great. Obviously the wwe told ziggler to take control of the match because they didnt have as much faith in nakamura. Which shows they know how talented of a worker dolph is in a big match feel.
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