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  #51  
Old 11-22-2016, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Crocker View Post
You can build up Samoa Joe, Bray Wyatt, Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, Baron Corbin, etc.. and Lesnar never beat Roman Reigns or Bray Wyatt before..

And like I said a thousand times already, I agree that he needed to be knocked down a level, but that honor deserves to go to someone younger. Imagine the rub of dethroning Lesnar going to a younger guy, and how much credibility and attention he would receive for his entire career. Goldberg is simply Goldberg, he doesn't need this; he attracts enough attention from his return by itself.

Sure, they can build him back up, but will he ever be at the same level as before his match with Goldberg? Doubtfully, he will still be booked very strong, just not immortal strong. But the opportunity to create a new mega star has passed.

Imagine WrestleMania 21 and HBK is the one to end Triiple H's reign of terror instead of Batista and Big Show is the one to defeat JBL instead of John Cena. This accomplishes short term ratings, but it does nothing in the long term.
Brock Lesnar is damaged goods now, not from the loss at SS, but from the positive drug test at UFC 200. He will never be seen in the same light again. Here you have this former UFC Heavyweight Champion, comes back for another go round and has to get on the juice to do it. He might have made a lot of money, but he damaged his reputation in the end.

So I'm not sure how much stock the WWE is putting into him anymore. He may have brought some UFC fans over to the WWE, but after UFC 200 they've gone back. Not even sure how much of a draw he is, he's rarely seen now, even less than before.

When Lesnar came back he broke the streak, demolished Cena, then took out Rollins and Cena at the same time. He's been through most of the roster and there simply wasn't anyone else for him to fight, like I said they had to bring back someone who was a match for him. Goldberg was that match.

This is the problem when you have someone like Lesnar. He destroy's everyone in his path, making the entire roster look weak in the process. Yes he could have been beaten by Reigns or Owens or Balor, but would it have been believable to the extent that it wouldn't have been shit all over. No it wouldn't.

Maybe this is the WWE's way to take Lesnar out of the equation and finally focus on some of their own guys, you know the guys who work their asses off night in and night out. Maybe it's time to stop with the part timer bullshit and let the roster shine, because when you bring in these guys, others end up looking like shit.
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  #52  
Old 11-22-2016, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Navi View Post
Brock Lesnar is damaged goods now, not from the loss at SS, but from the positive drug test at UFC 200. He will never be seen in the same light again. Here you have this former UFC Heavyweight Champion, comes back for another go round and has to get on the juice to do it. He might have made a lot of money, but he damaged his reputation in the end.
Off the top of my head, with the exception of Lance Armstrong and some baseball players, positive drug test haven't really damaged athletes that much. We expect it, they get suspened and then they come back and we continue to pay money to see them.

Especially in pro wrestling.

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So I'm not sure how much stock the WWE is putting into him anymore. He may have brought some UFC fans over to the WWE, but after UFC 200 they've gone back. Not even sure how much of a draw he is, he's rarely seen now, even less than before.
I agree that Brock' s stock is waning. But not because of his drug test. It just pushed him further in to heel status.

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When Lesnar came back he broke the streak, demolished Cena, then took out Rollins and Cena at the same time. He's been through most of the roster and there simply wasn't anyone else for him to fight, like I said they had to bring back someone who was a match for him. Goldberg was that match.
The roster is ridiculously huge and there are plenty of guys they could build up to take him out. There are plenty of talented guys with tremendous upside that could have challenged Lesnar or actually beat him.

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This is the problem when you have someone like Lesnar. He destroy's everyone in his path, making the entire roster look weak in the process. Yes he could have been beaten by Reigns or Owens or Balor, but would it have been believable to the extent that it wouldn't have been shit all over. No it wouldn't.
Was it believable to have a 50 year old beat him with a push, spear, spear, jackhammer in less than two minutes?

Quote:
Maybe this is the WWE's way to take Lesnar out of the equation and finally focus on some of their own guys, you know the guys who work their asses off night in and night out. Maybe it's time to stop with the part timer bullshit and let the roster shine, because when you bring in these guys, others end up looking like shit.
How can you defend the decision to book Goldberg to squash Lesnar and then talk negatively about part-timers?

The story needs to play out, but right now, Crocker seems more right than you.
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  #53  
Old 11-22-2016, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BaconBits View Post
We're not eating turkey for Thanksgiving this year. We're headed out to dinner because it's easier for everybody involved. They're having a buffet and there's herb crusted prime rib on it. I'll be having that instead.
Last week I did a catering gig for 2,500 people. It was Thanksgiving meal themed. Over 1,000 pounds of turkey and 1,400 pounds of stuffing and potatoes each along with other crap. I'm freaking sick of seeing and smelling that shit. I'll be having tacos and tequila. After dinner I'll be headed to the strip club.
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  #54  
Old 11-23-2016, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by George Steele's Barber View Post
Off the top of my head, with the exception of Lance Armstrong and some baseball players, positive drug test haven't really damaged athletes that much. We expect it, they get suspened and then they come back and we continue to pay money to see them.

Especially in pro wrestling.
I don't expect it. And yes other athletics have done it and come back but it still does some damage to them. Lance Armstrong lost all credibility and all his Tour De France victories. I also believe it cost him sponsors, so in the end he did pay. You don't hear much about him anymore, I don't anyway.

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Originally Posted by George Steele's Barber View Post
I agree that Brock' s stock is waning. But not because of his drug test. It just pushed him further in to heel status.
Well at least we agree on something.

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Originally Posted by George Steele's Barber View Post
The roster is ridiculously huge and there are plenty of guys they could build up to take him out. There are plenty of talented guys with tremendous upside that could have challenged Lesnar or actually beat him.
But in the 3 years Lesnar has been back, who have they elevated? No one. He's beat Cena, Orton, Reigns, Rollins, all three Wyatt's at the Rumble and Ambrose. I would loved to have seen Rusev have a shot maybe to build Rusev back up after the loss to Cena, or Sheamus. Those two weren't even given a chance.

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Originally Posted by George Steele's Barber View Post
Was it believable to have a 50 year old beat him with a push, spear, spear, jackhammer in less than two minutes?
No it wasn't, but then being a wrestling fan I suspend my disbelief a lot when watching. Besides Goldberg looked in better physical shape than Lesnar did.

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Originally Posted by George Steele's Barber View Post
How can you defend the decision to book Goldberg to squash Lesnar and then talk negatively about part-timers?

The story needs to play out, but right now, Crocker seems more right than you.
I have no problem with part timers as long as they are there to help the current roster out. Having Lesnar dominate the roster and having no one take him out but to bring back Goldberg, that's a little worrying. It's like saying no one on the roster is good enough, when in fact in a scripted sport anyone is good enough.

It's not about being right, it's about having a different opinion. Opinion's aren't fact they are just what they are, opinion's.
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  #55  
Old 11-23-2016, 08:29 AM
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A shock? Clearly, but welcome in the predictable era we live in. It really should not be though considering Goldberg made a career out of squashes & beating the top guys. Since he is staying the decision makes perfect sense. It builds more hype for him, continues his steamroller legendary status & gets people to watch who probably have quit over the last decade. All those folks who loved WCW & never really got in to WWE are now buying tickets/merch again.

What it doesnt do is ruin Brock Lesnar. The guy could eat baby Dolphins, post a video kicking over sand castles & still get a mega reaction when coming to the ring. Remember him basically murdering a cripple? Not even that took him down a notch, it just gave him more dastardly points. Which people loved him for.

He will still come back strong, Heyman will be gold, & Goldberg gets destroyed in the end. The next guy to beat him will still get a rub & the Goldberg thing wont matter. Some people are acting like this spells the end & it is not even close to that. All this is has been some people whining their guy lost, while the other 90% had fun & are waiting to see how this plays out. It shakes things up & there is nothing wrong with that.

I love Brock, but it was the best thing to do. Goldbergs age isnt a real factor because this took place in a world where a past his time guy playing dead gunslinger is considered to be a god every time he hobbles to the ring.
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  #56  
Old 11-23-2016, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Navi View Post
Lance Armstrong lost all credibility and all his Tour De France victories. I also believe it cost him sponsors, so in the end he did pay. You don't hear much about him anymore, I don't anyway.
He said with the exception of Lance Armstrong...

His legacy was completely destroyed. I believe he's been doing a lot of charity work since. Not sure how much that will help.

But no, other than a few baseball players who are going to take longer than normal (if ever) to reach the HOF, and the obvious health concerns, steroids rarely does any permanent damage to an athletes legacy. That's why so many use them. Much easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.
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  #57  
Old 11-23-2016, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Navi View Post
I don't expect it. And yes other athletics have done it and come back but it still does some damage to them. Lance Armstrong lost all credibility and all his Tour De France victories. I also believe it cost him sponsors, so in the end he did pay. You don't hear much about him anymore, I don't anyway.



Well at least we agree on something.



But in the 3 years Lesnar has been back, who have they elevated? No one. He's beat Cena, Orton, Reigns, Rollins, all three Wyatt's at the Rumble and Ambrose. I would loved to have seen Rusev have a shot maybe to build Rusev back up after the loss to Cena, or Sheamus. Those two weren't even given a chance.



No it wasn't, but then being a wrestling fan I suspend my disbelief a lot when watching. Besides Goldberg looked in better physical shape than Lesnar did.



I have no problem with part timers as long as they are there to help the current roster out. Having Lesnar dominate the roster and having no one take him out but to bring back Goldberg, that's a little worrying. It's like saying no one on the roster is good enough, when in fact in a scripted sport anyone is good enough.

It's not about being right, it's about having a different opinion. Opinion's aren't fact they are just what they are, opinion's.
So you pretty much agree with Crocker. That's not what I got from your other post. My bad.

Then again, I've always had a tough time communicating with women.
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  #58  
Old 11-23-2016, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Navi View Post
I don't expect it. And yes other athletics have done it and come back but it still does some damage to them. Lance Armstrong lost all credibility and all his Tour De France victories. I also believe it cost him sponsors, so in the end he did pay. You don't hear much about him anymore, I don't anyway.
You're comparing this to pro wrestling.. besides, after Lesnar destroyed Orton, most people forgot about his UFC violation.


Quote:
Well at least we agree on something.



But in the 3 years Lesnar has been back, who have they elevated? No one. He's beat Cena, Orton, Reigns, Rollins, all three Wyatt's at the Rumble and Ambrose. I would loved to have seen Rusev have a shot maybe to build Rusev back up after the loss to Cena, or Sheamus. Those two weren't even given a chance.
True, he didn't really elevate anyone with his squash matches. However, the intention would be to build him up as a final boss type of heel, for a conquering babyface to finally dethrone him. Now Goldberg is the one that has conquered him instead of a younger guy, who they still had a year to build up before Lesnar's contract runs out.

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No it wasn't, but then being a wrestling fan I suspend my disbelief a lot when watching. Besides Goldberg looked in better physical shape than Lesnar did.
Okay, if you suspend your disbelief then how would a younger or smaller guy like Reigns, Balor, Styles, Rollins, etc be a bad decision?


Quote:
I have no problem with part timers as long as they are there to help the current roster out. Having Lesnar dominate the roster and having no one take him out but to bring back Goldberg, that's a little worrying. It's like saying no one on the roster is good enough, when in fact in a scripted sport anyone is good enough.
Like I said, the point was to elevate a younger guy to mega star status. If nobody was believable threat to Lesnar, that's on the creative team. Instead of bringing Lesnar down, why not elevate your full time guys to the point they finally are a threat to him? You still had a year to elevate these guys.. there are so many people who could've used this rub
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  #59  
Old 11-23-2016, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Fire Marshall Bill View Post
He said with the exception of Lance Armstrong...

His legacy was completely destroyed. I believe he's been doing a lot of charity work since. Not sure how much that will help.

But no, other than a few baseball players who are going to take longer than normal (if ever) to reach the HOF, and the obvious health concerns, steroids rarely does any permanent damage to an athletes legacy. That's why so many use them. Much easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.
You know I completely missed "with the exception of" part of the sentence. Totally my fault for reading it too fast.

Yea Armstrong is done, no matter how much charity work he does. Not too mention the fact that when he was questioned about it to begin with he lied through his teeth. I believe it was teammates of his that actually got him nailed in the end.

As for other athletics, it can definitely be a deterrent. Mark McGwire the Oakland A's first baseman, missed his last chance last year I believe to make the Hall of Fame. Now if he wants to get in he has to go through the Era Committee. He definitely has the stats, but his admission of steroids use as come back to haunt him. I'm sure there are others. but McGwire was one of my favourite players so I followed his career closely.
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Last edited by Navi : 11-23-2016 at 10:43 PM.
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  #60  
Old 11-24-2016, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Crocker View Post
True, he didn't really elevate anyone with his squash matches. However, the intention would be to build him up as a final boss type of heel, for a conquering babyface to finally dethrone him.
Which would have only worked if he had stayed champion from Summerslam 2014 until Wrestlemania 32. That option was divisive among fans and management decided to go with Rollins.

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Now Goldberg is the one that has conquered him instead of a younger guy, who they still had a year to build up before Lesnar's contract runs out.
Goldberg has become an uber babyface and Lesnar now has a challenger he can contend with from here to April. It seems to have worked out. Why are some fans obsessed with young guys getting rubs from wins over established characters? Austin never beat Bret but fans loved him anyway because they loved the character.
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Last edited by #tamale : 11-24-2016 at 12:18 AM.
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