WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > Wrestling - Non Spam Sections > World Wrestling Entertainment
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-12-2016, 02:40 AM
RomanfreakinReigns's Avatar
RomanfreakinReigns RomanfreakinReigns is offline
Registered User
Knockout Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 740
RomanfreakinReigns worked a dark match on ECW recently...RomanfreakinReigns worked a dark match on ECW recently...RomanfreakinReigns worked a dark match on ECW recently...RomanfreakinReigns worked a dark match on ECW recently...RomanfreakinReigns worked a dark match on ECW recently...RomanfreakinReigns worked a dark match on ECW recently...RomanfreakinReigns worked a dark match on ECW recently...RomanfreakinReigns worked a dark match on ECW recently...RomanfreakinReigns worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagger Dias View Post
Smackdown is atrocious....!? What show are you even watching!? Smackdown is AMAZING right now. It hasn't been this good since Wrestlemania 25, if not longer. Smackdown BEFORE the brand split's return is a show I might describe as atrocious. The return of the brand split made Smackdown go from being pointless to being the best show WWE produces on a weekly basis.
I can agree that WWE did need a shake-up as they'd exhausted almost all possibilities, dream matches, and multi-person feuds between 2012-2016:-

The Shield, Wyatts, Taker vs Lesnar, Cena vs Lesnar, Rock vs Cena, CM Punk's rise and departure, Daniel Bryan's retirement, Unification of the world titles.

Basically, they were left with rather stagnated Orton and Cena(Jeez) who were already 12 and 15 time champions respectively, three former Shield members, Sheamus and Cesaro and that's it. Oh, and AJ Styles. (Lesnar as a part-timer).

We certainly can't and wouldn't want to imagine how the WWE would be right now, had it only been for one major show and world champion. Better or worse??

The shakeup has happened. Two distinct brands are a fact now.

My issues are the same which bothered the naysayers back in June, of which there were quite a few. The TV shows aren't compelling enough for me, especially not SD Live.

Actually, at one point I shared the same feeling as you and others about SD live, but my conviction right now is that they've failed to produce compelling TV for two months now.

Everything was exciting until they crowned the tag champs, and Styles became champion and Cena and Ambrose got thrown in.

I also recognize that it's not easy producing compelling TV 52 weeks a year, for two different brands is no easy task. But what I'm seeing on TV isn't palatable at all, from top to bottom. At least on SD Live. On Raw, I could at least still be invested in Braun Strowman, Reigns Rollins, KO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagger Dias View Post
This, other than "Smackdown is atrocious", is the most incorrect part of your post. King Patrick Star was absolutely correct when he talked about the titles. The whole point of being a wrestler is (kayfabe) to become a champion. Raw and Smackdown are two different shows. They need a World Champion, a midcard champion, a Women's Champion, and tag team champions. The shows are incomplete otherwise. Even if they had an undisputed World Champion, it would create a large gap. Let's say there is no Universal title. If AJ Styles was THE top guy, what would Owens and Rollins be doing if Styles is feuding with Ambrose? They need something to fight for. The same goes for the women. If Charlotte's title was the only one, then what would Becky Lynch and Alexa Bliss be doing? Would you rather see Seth Rollins job to Roman Reigns or see Becky Lynch job to Nikki Bella when they could be getting the title shots/reigns they deserve?
I agree that if there are two brands, you need two world champions and two midcard titles for both brands, and have no opinion on the women's title(whether they should have one or two).

My issue is that if they were supposed to resurrect SD live as the show with opportunities and more wrestling and all that, where is the evidence?

Back in 2002, when Stephanie announced the WWE tag team title tournament, you saw Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle have amazing matches with Rey Mysterio and Edge, and Guerreros, and those are some of the most exciting and athletic tag team matches ever. All of that hapened within a 4-month period.

I haven't seen a single exciting match for the SD tag titles yet, and a 20-minute match at that, let alone a ladder match.

Instead of watching a compelling triple threat match between the Usos, American Alpha and Hype Bros, which are the most athletic and able team on the roster, I've had to see Spirit Squad and as much as I like Heath Slater, the pairing with Rhyno and the tag matches involving them have been a snoozefest.

It's not just one thing. It's not just tag teams and James Ellsworth, but the show is lacking at multiple levels.

I didn't feel so back in 2002, and it didn't matter if it was Live or not, or who the general manager was. You had Brock Lesnar and Undertaker, the cruiserweights, and Angle,Edge, Benoit, Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero!

While they don't nearly have the same level or amount of talent today,
they could, IMO, at least do something better with what they do have:- AJ Styles, Dean Ambrose, American Alpha, Usos, Hype Bros, and perhaps John Cena and Randy Orton.

They really haven't, IMO, from what I've been watching since 6-8 weeks. (I elaborated on how they could've given us amazing tag matches, but they haven't.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagger Dias View Post
You have created a good discussion with this topic, however I don't agree with your 5 statements. The brand split saved the WWE. It was getting, dare I even say it, boring. Now, quite the contrary. I'm looking forward to BOTH shows each week with lots of anticipation. When was the last time that could be said of both brands on a weekly basis?
They've succeeded with producing two distinct shows a week, yes.

It's just that most people still complain that Raw isn't good enough, is 3 hrs long etc, whereas they thoroughly enjoy SD Live, week after week.

In my case, I think SD live has very little to offer.

Raw has some talent, but neither show is compelling for me anymore.

Also, due to restrictions of time, I've decided to stop watching regularly. The last time I really looked forward to watching used to be when CM Punk rose in 2011, or the brand split in 2002, Smackdown in 2006 with the likes of Kurt Angle, Finlay, Lashley, Taker, Kane, Mr.. Kennedy.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-12-2016, 09:43 PM
WWEIsLife2 WWEIsLife2 is offline
Registered User
Knockout Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 670
WWEIsLife2 is looking to come up from OCW...WWEIsLife2 is looking to come up from OCW...WWEIsLife2 is looking to come up from OCW...WWEIsLife2 is looking to come up from OCW...WWEIsLife2 is looking to come up from OCW...WWEIsLife2 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

They don't have the same level of Talent today? I totally disagree with that because both Shows have an insane amount of Talent if not alot better than what they had in the original split.

And what else can they do better with an AJ Styles who's the current WWE Champion while carrying one of the flagship Shows? Nobody thought a year ago he'd be where he is now with the Main Title who carried TNA for so many years before heading to Japan and ROH.
__________________
"You cry and you pout for the Attitude Era but when me and CM Punk give you attitude, you dont like it." -Paul Heyman

WWF/E & Wrestling Fan since 1990!
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-13-2016, 11:54 AM
rmp0012002 rmp0012002 is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 557
rmp0012002 is looking to come up from OCW...rmp0012002 is looking to come up from OCW...rmp0012002 is looking to come up from OCW...rmp0012002 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

I always hated the brand split because you take all your stronger people then split them into lesser groups. After a while that brands top guys have all wrestler each other and it gets stale.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-14-2016, 05:46 PM
StaRRStruck's Avatar
StaRRStruck StaRRStruck is offline
Roman Reigns the real 1-2-3 Kid
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 55
StaRRStruck is looking to come up from OCW...StaRRStruck is looking to come up from OCW...StaRRStruck is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Honestly they're are holes on both sides of the brand split, but with the amount of talent they already have along with the talent coming in they NEEDED to have two brands. Personally this is the first time we've seen various superstars pushed rather then getting lost in the shuffle. Take a look at these superstars and tell me if they were doing better before or after the split:
Kevin Owens
Chris Jericho
Braun Strowman
Dolph Ziggler
The Miz
Heath Slater
Bo Dallas
Sheamus
Cesaro

These are literally the first few that popped in my head, and of course the split hasn't helped everyone (I'm looking at you Sami Zayn) but I feel like it's provided a better platform for more superstars to build and get over. I agree the tag divisions are a little rough and feuds may get drawn out but these things are all fixable. If you check out the storytelling and continuity on SDL it would make you appreciate everything the WWE is trying to do right now. The wrestling is pretty great on both shows while Raw suffers from storytelling, and to be honest it's the first time in a LOOOONG time that the company is investing time in people (KO, Ambrose, Styles) not named John Cena or Roman Reigns.
__________________
PHIL BROOKS STOLE MY GIRL
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-14-2016, 06:33 PM
BestSportsEntertainer's Avatar
BestSportsEntertainer BestSportsEntertainer is offline
Da Best Sports Entertainer Ever
WWF Hardcore Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Age: 18
Posts: 1,153
BestSportsEntertainer scored a win over Santino Marella...BestSportsEntertainer scored a win over Santino Marella...BestSportsEntertainer scored a win over Santino Marella...BestSportsEntertainer scored a win over Santino Marella...BestSportsEntertainer scored a win over Santino Marella...BestSportsEntertainer scored a win over Santino Marella...BestSportsEntertainer scored a win over Santino Marella...BestSportsEntertainer scored a win over Santino Marella...BestSportsEntertainer scored a win over Santino Marella...BestSportsEntertainer scored a win over Santino Marella...BestSportsEntertainer scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default

1 - Two tag divisions have been a failure

Raw has New Day, Sheamus/Cesaro, Enzo/Cass, and The Club.
SD has Rhyno/Slater, Alpha, Usos, and Wyatts.

Sounds like two pretty good divisions.

2 - The cruiserweights have flopped

They're probably being moved from Raw to the new show, 205 Live.

3 - SD Live is atrocious

Here are the feuds: Wyatt-Orton, Ambrose-Styles, Miz-Ziggler, Alpha-Usos, Becky-Alexa

They also have rising stars in Corbin, Kalisto, and Crews and a veteran in Kane. And Cena is coming back.

SD Live is also considered by most WWE fans to be the best WWE show in a long time.

4 - Too much of the "same" matches and segments

This was a problem before the brand split.

5 - Diluted star power has resulted in hiring awful wrestlers or trying to resurrect past ones like Swagger and Hawkins. And also, Ellsworth.

Swagger and Hawkins are jobbers. Jobbers have a place. Ellsworth won't be around long and provides an extra layer to Ambrose vs. Styles. Do you really want to see the typical "I'm #1 contender and want the championship" feud again? It's get old after a while.

6 - No matter how many NXT stars they bring in, two titles each for the Main title, women's title and tag titles will never work

It is working.

WWE Title - Ambrose vs. Styles
Universal Title - Owens vs. Rollins
IC Title - Miz vs. Ziggler
US Title - Reigns vs. Rusev
Raw Tag Titles - New Day vs. Club
SD Tag Titles - Slater/Rhyno vs. Usos
Raw Women's Title - Charlotte vs. Sasha
SD Women's Title - Becky vs. Alexa

Looks like it's working to me. There are some really good feuds now.

I for one, have stopped watching

Then get off these forums. If you don't like WWE, stop talking about it.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-15-2016, 10:36 PM
Sexcellence of Sexecution's Avatar
Sexcellence of Sexecution Sexcellence of Sexecution is offline
#SwerveKing
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 593
Sexcellence of Sexecution scored a win over Santino Marella...Sexcellence of Sexecution scored a win over Santino Marella...Sexcellence of Sexecution scored a win over Santino Marella...Sexcellence of Sexecution scored a win over Santino Marella...Sexcellence of Sexecution scored a win over Santino Marella...Sexcellence of Sexecution scored a win over Santino Marella...Sexcellence of Sexecution scored a win over Santino Marella...Sexcellence of Sexecution scored a win over Santino Marella...Sexcellence of Sexecution scored a win over Santino Marella...Sexcellence of Sexecution scored a win over Santino Marella...Sexcellence of Sexecution scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WWEIsLife2 View Post
They don't have the same level of Talent today? I totally disagree with that because both Shows have an insane amount of Talent if not alot better than what they had in the original split.
This is a completely ridiculous statement. The original brand split had The Rock, Steve Austin, Triple H, Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle, Undertaker, Kevin Nash, Chris Jericho, Edge, Booker T. Eventually Shawn Michaels returned. Lesnar made his debut. Goldberg was added. And I was still against the brand split then.

The sad thing is that the OP is clearly right but marks are too stupid to see it. By definition the brand split waters down the product. It dilutes the values of all the titles, especially the World Title, and makes being a World Champion something completely meaningless because everyone with any ounce of talent in any area can get a World Title run. The shows are monotonous and boring, and lackluster talent is given spots they don't deserve. The great myth of thsi era is that this is the era with a bunch of amazingly underutilized talent. The truth is that most wrestlers today suck, andhave no idea how to keep their character consistent or tell a story. Also NXT is now a shell of itself, and even though Raw and SmackDown desperately need the top NXT talent to add much needed depth to both rosters, if you take what Nakamura and Bobby Roode from NXT the show was nothing left and it will undo all of the work that made NXT a brand in its own right.

The brandsplit is also a weird barrier to entry for the casual television viewer. Fans on these forums are so deeply insulated in the wrestling world they don't understand how it might come across to a casual viewer. The Raw/SmackDown distinction seems strange and arbitrary (because it is), and a good deal of explanation is required as to why there is not just one World Champion in the WWE. It is needlessly convoluted and creates accessibility problems.

Also, SmackDown vs. Raw as a rivalry will never, ever, ever work as intended because it's clearly a fake wrestling angle. The brandsplit was originally meant to capture the magic of WWF vs. WCW, but there was a major flaw. WWF vs. WCW was real, the brandsplit is bullshit. And everybody knows it's bullshit. There are no stakes, people appear on both shows frequently, and there is so sense of identity to either brand whatsoever. The annual random "draft," which isn't really a draft but uses that term for some reason, shakes up the rosters so much that both brands blur together rendering everything pointless.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:36 PM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices