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  #21  
Old 09-19-2016, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rbv13 View Post
WWE seems to be attracting bigger name sponsors but we have no clue what the going rate is. I can guarantee PepsiCo/YUM is paying a fraction of what they spend on NFL Sundays when they back WWE.
This is 100% on track and why WWE is going to have a hard time during re-negotiations with USA.

Advertisers pay for the makeup of a viewing audience (education, income, etc) and unfortuantley the price to advertise on wrestling is much lower than other shows.

USA can very well make more money from advertisers on a show with 1/3rd the ratings of RAW and yet the target audience of that particular show with 1/3 less ratings than RAW costs MORE to advertise on due to the target audience (higher education, higher income, etc).

This is a point a know is greatly overlooked when anyone says ratings don't matter. They 100% do to USA and in turn WWE.
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  #22  
Old 09-20-2016, 08:42 AM
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If I am WWE, I would be shitting in my pants. As I said on another thread, there is a huge tumor in the company. Pro wrestling itself is VERY healthy, for which I will explain later. "Sports Entertainment" is dying a slow and painful death. The big reason is that WWE tries to be all things to all people. Guess what? When you are all things to all people, you become nothing to nobody. The storylines are beyond incoherent to the point of nonsensical. They constantly tell you that wins and losses do not matter. You have people rammed down your throat who should not be Main Eventing. People that cannot cut a promo to save their lives, yet being pushed like they are saviors to Shakespeare. I causes fans to run for the exits. 14 years ago, they might not have had much choice between WWF and WWF. TNA and RoH were in their infancy. You could not watch anything from Japan unless you moved there, or happen to score a tape/DVD of a card. Well, it is 2016. Times have changed.

Today, fans of Pro Wrestling HAVE choices. Roku streams cards. YouTube streams cards. I watched a live card of WhatCulture Pro Wrestling on YouTube. Got to see Will Ospreay and Marty Scrull in a 6-way match. Also on that card was Moose vs. Drew Galloway in a great match. Better than anything on RAW. Also, on my phone and tablet, I have the Fite TV app. Very legal. I watched the most recent episodes of Championship Wrestling from Hollywood, Paragon, Canada's Wrestling Centre, Scotland's ICW Fight Club, and Minnesota's AWF TV taping (complete with their local commercials!). All are legal to be shown on Fite. If I want to see a live show? WrestlePro, owned by WWE Alums Pat Buck, Brian Myers and Kevin Matthews, routinely draw 1500-2000 to their shows in the NYC Metro area. NYC's Warriors of Wrestling, House of Glory, And Tier 1 do monthly cards, and those three are the biggest ones. BTW, NONE of them copy the WWE model.

So, why should one support a company that cannot get out of the way of their own arrogance? Tries to be all things to all people? Why should I support a three hour show, when two of those hours are filled with mindless chatter, pushing this product or cause, or an idiotic segment that takes away from a good show? Sure, I have watched MMA. Cannot, for the life of me, get into it. I was one of those poor souls that dropped $60 to see CM Punk get annihilated, and Alitair Overeem get his ass overeamed. And one wonders why I am exasperated with MMA? Sure, you say get the Network. I say, "for what?" I am not interested in Total Divas or Holy Foley. Sure, I might miss a PPV or two. But, I'll catch it on a friend's PC or tablet.

In closing, most of you "Sports Entertainment" fans are wringing your hands on why WWE is falling in the ratings. Why ratings are not up for "The biggest, the best and on TV every week" company on the planet? The very reason is that most of us fans of "Professional Wrestling" have found alternatives to WWE with the new technology. And, we found live performances that make us want to go to those performances. Those companies give us fans what we want: Good, hard action with little fluff. When WWE realizes that, and becomes more like WrestlePro rather than "Days of our Lives", fans will return.

Last edited by stingray11214 : 09-20-2016 at 08:44 AM.
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  #23  
Old 09-20-2016, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray11214 View Post
If I am WWE, I would be shitting in my pants. As I said on another thread, there is a huge tumor in the company. Pro wrestling itself is VERY healthy, for which I will explain later. "Sports Entertainment" is dying a slow and painful death. The big reason is that WWE tries to be all things to all people. Guess what? When you are all things to all people, you become nothing to nobody. The storylines are beyond incoherent to the point of nonsensical. They constantly tell you that wins and losses do not matter. You have people rammed down your throat who should not be Main Eventing. People that cannot cut a promo to save their lives, yet being pushed like they are saviors to Shakespeare. I causes fans to run for the exits. 14 years ago, they might not have had much choice between WWF and WWF. TNA and RoH were in their infancy. You could not watch anything from Japan unless you moved there, or happen to score a tape/DVD of a card. Well, it is 2016. Times have changed.

Today, fans of Pro Wrestling HAVE choices. Roku streams cards. YouTube streams cards. I watched a live card of WhatCulture Pro Wrestling on YouTube. Got to see Will Ospreay and Marty Scrull in a 6-way match. Also on that card was Moose vs. Drew Galloway in a great match. Better than anything on RAW. Also, on my phone and tablet, I have the Fite TV app. Very legal. I watched the most recent episodes of Championship Wrestling from Hollywood, Paragon, Canada's Wrestling Centre, Scotland's ICW Fight Club, and Minnesota's AWF TV taping (complete with their local commercials!). All are legal to be shown on Fite. If I want to see a live show? WrestlePro, owned by WWE Alums Pat Buck, Brian Myers and Kevin Matthews, routinely draw 1500-2000 to their shows in the NYC Metro area. NYC's Warriors of Wrestling, House of Glory, And Tier 1 do monthly cards, and those three are the biggest ones. BTW, NONE of them copy the WWE model.

So, why should one support a company that cannot get out of the way of their own arrogance? Tries to be all things to all people? Why should I support a three hour show, when two of those hours are filled with mindless chatter, pushing this product or cause, or an idiotic segment that takes away from a good show? Sure, I have watched MMA. Cannot, for the life of me, get into it. I was one of those poor souls that dropped $60 to see CM Punk get annihilated, and Alitair Overeem get his ass overeamed. And one wonders why I am exasperated with MMA? Sure, you say get the Network. I say, "for what?" I am not interested in Total Divas or Holy Foley. Sure, I might miss a PPV or two. But, I'll catch it on a friend's PC or tablet.

In closing, most of you "Sports Entertainment" fans are wringing your hands on why WWE is falling in the ratings. Why ratings are not up for "The biggest, the best and on TV every week" company on the planet? The very reason is that most of us fans of "Professional Wrestling" have found alternatives to WWE with the new technology. And, we found live performances that make us want to go to those performances. Those companies give us fans what we want: Good, hard action with little fluff. When WWE realizes that, and becomes more like WrestlePro rather than "Days of our Lives", fans will return.
Uh wow this is really off the mark. TNA gets around 300,000 viewers. I can't imagine ROH getting way more than that. That is a very tiny audience. Those Indy companies are nowhere near even TNA level. WWE isn't losing audience to Indy companies, they are losing it to things like the NFL (3 hour Raw vs MNF, easy to choose), the 5000 different TV channels or to streaming (since streaming won't count as a view but that only matters if you have a Nielsen Box).

1500-2000 is not a big attendance number.

WWE produces stuff like Holy Foley in hopes that it will attract people that like that stuff to buy the Network. The Network still has stuff wrestling fans would like. This doesn't hurt them. The Network can try to have wide appeal range and not be hurt.
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  #24  
Old 09-21-2016, 08:07 AM
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Raw may wind up drawing literally an all time low next week because it's got MASSIVE competition.

WWE will have its usual competition at this time of year with Monday Night Football, though I don't think MNF will draw a super huge audience next week as it's the Atlanta Falcons taking on the New Orleans Saints. It's doubtful it'll be some major barnburner as neither team is especially impressive right now; the Falcons haven't made the playoffs since 2012 and the Saints are 0-2 for the season.

I think the real competition will come in the form of the first Presidential Debate between Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump. I won't be at all surprised if 30 to 40 million homes tune in for it mostly because so many people want to see Clinton & Trump tear into each other while on stage together for the first time with about 1.5 months until the election. Also, let's face it, Trump is good for ratings because he's become the modern shock jock of politics: people who like him want to hear what outrageous thing he'll say next while people who don't like him also want to hear what outrageous thing he'll say next.
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  #25  
Old 09-21-2016, 08:12 PM
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WWE isn't going anywhere, any time soon. Whether or not wrestling is cool or edgy anymore doesn't matter. The TV product is just one of many. The network gig, merchandise sales, movies, video games, and attendence revenue is more than enough to keep this company thriving. Go to any major city in the world, and if WWE is coming to town, you better believe those seats are getting filled.

Along with that, while there is tons of indie wrestling promotions, and even TNA, WWE is the only legitimate wrestling company that has brand equity and is a household name.

As far as ratings, like others have said, majority of individuals don't subscribe to cable anymore, mostly due to an abundance of commercial interruption and irellevance in today's age. This isn't a great indicator of WWE's performance. I personally watch the condensed versions of RAW and SD on Hulu Plus, and many people torrent their content as well.

Everything's going to be okay.
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  #26  
Old 09-21-2016, 11:33 PM
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TV ratings do matter. They matter to NBC Universal who use the ratings to determine how much WWE shows are worth to them on their network based on who is advertising on their show.

WWE cannot afford to go off TV or any lesser network for the good foreseeable future. They need the TV exposure to make all the other aspects of their company continue to work like live attendance, merchandise, movies, video games, and Network subscribers.


WWE does need to be concerned about diving TV ratings no matter what excuse their could be for other competition on TV and other forms of media.

WWE needs to focus on creating a format of the show that is consistently appealing and gripping for pro wrestling fans. Yes, pro wrestling fans. Not fans of "sports entertainment" because nobody is a fan of "sports entertainment" because that is exclusively WWE and WWE will NEVER get away from being pro wrestling with fluff.

I still can't believe the quote from Vince McMahon during the Monday night wars when he said to Ted Turner they are not in the same business. McMahon said he's in the entertainment business when Turner said he was in the pro wrestling business.

While Vince is right in the sense that pro wrestling needs to be entertaining. It has to be entertaining as professional wrestling.

Even if WWE wants to appeal to kids it should not be a show that would look in place on the Disney Network or Family Channel.

When Vince steers Raw and SD to be all things for all people he definitely loses would-be fans because those segments are far too frequent and take would-be new or returning fans out of interest in the product and almost encourage them to find something else to watch.


Now, is there hope? Sure. I think NXT and everything connected to it from the recent Cruiserweight Classic to the NXT special events is how PRO WRESTLING should be consistently produced. When done this way it is cool and gritty and interesting.

NXT takes advantage of everything that pro wrestling does and can do better than other types of shows like the created drama, athleticism, showmanship and pageantry and memorable moments of speech and action.


It's amazing how much you can tell how Vince has nothing to do with NXT and Triple H has the reigns.


Vince is stubborn in his views on how Raw and SD should be produced and while they do have some good segments and matches there is just FAR too many segments that fall flat or short of compelling.


The problem I see is that ratings may not matter to many fans of WWE because THEY are happy to just watch the show later on YouTube/online, DVR or even just read the results but the Nielsen ratings DO matter to the network WWE is on, especially when it nears the time the contract is up and NBC have to decide what WWE is worth to them.

When WWE gets closer to that contract expiring and if their ratings aren't up to where they were last time or better then they'll need to pull out all the stops to make consistent and compelling reasons for fans to watch LIVE on TV or they risk getting less money in the deal or much worse; needing to go to another network.


The good news is WWE can make the tweaks necessary to make 2 days of 2 hour compelling live PRO WRESTLING content because they do it on NXT and in shades on Raw and SD. But they will need to cut out the fluff and be more coherent and engaging with storylines.


The bad news is Vince may not fully let them do that or he might just do it enough to squeak out enough high-rating shows in just the right time to get a decent contract renewal.


Honestly, the best case scenario for pro wrestling fans is that when NBC's contract with WWE is up in a few years and WWE is still doing this 50/50 booking and while doing some great things also wasting a lot of time trying to be all things to all people that they LOSE money in their next contract and they are FORCED to improve and really find what gets fans to tune in live on TV to their product.


In the meantime, just enjoys the things they do well and ignore the things they don't do well. You could complain about it but unless you have a Nielsen box you watching or not watching won't affect their TV product.
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  #27  
Old 09-22-2016, 02:34 AM
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1) No one is panicking.

B) NBC Universal isn't paying WWE for streams on Hulu. They forced Smackdown Live and the brand split to beef up ratings. Smackdown is doing OK, but Raw is falling behind more and more each year. That's not good no matter how you cut it because Raw isn't fulfilling it's job of keeping USA Network #1 on Cable.

Tres) No one is saying wrestling is dead. WWE isn't dying any time soon. But Raw has a job and it's been slipping more and more by the year which will cause an issue and probably a good dollar in revenue once WWE re-negotiates in 2018. Smackdown was kinda failing too and is still on a slippery slope lately too.
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