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  #11  
Old 05-23-2016, 09:36 AM
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It's an interesting thought. Although I agree that they failed somewhat creatively I'm not sure how bad it hurt their bottom line.

The good news here is that I don't foresee any big money in 2016 for them to make therefore there is no big money to lose. If there was one opportunity that may be lost financially it is with Brock. It feels like he's lost his lustre. Like he's now the guy people don't care about because they've seen what he can do but he has no room to grow, no intriguing opponents to test, and the fact that we know he is going to disappear again just means that most of what he does doesn't matter.

I also wonder how they are going to blow this Shane return or if they've already blown it. The Cena heel turn may work money wise.
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  #12  
Old 05-23-2016, 11:13 AM
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The problem is that their plans go longer than 5 years... they have a long term strategy that goes 10-15-20 years into the future whereas we as fans often only want what we want now.

6 years ago, Wade Barrett could have been "THAT guy" not Roman, indeed it seemed he was planned to be and that would have been factored into their 5 year planning and beyond. Barrett as a main eventer would open longer term doors in the UK for example, they could do more business in the UK and develop that global branding. But once Barrett started getting hut there were issues, he also opened his mouth in an interview stating he'd "be done in 5 years" - so that more than anything killed the push for him. He may have worked hard to overcome the injuries and change that perception but ultimately, his plan has come to fruition and WWE's for him didn't.

WWE can't push a guy for 2-3 years, they need to push guys who will, like Cena, Orton, Jericho and the like be top of the mountain for 10 years+ MINIMUM.

Where it's gone wrong is they have wavered from that at times, guys like Sheamus, ADR, Thwagger were never going to be those long term fixes but gave the appearance of "shiny new talents" in the main events. Now AJ is in a similar boat and sadly, so was Cody Rhodes.

Take Cody - to remove Stardust, give him a legit push that would lead to a World Title would have taken 2-3 years realistically, 1 to undo the perceived damage to Cody from being Stardust and get him back into a "groove", then another to start to build that push either with MITB or via progressively bigger upset wins. Then they actually have to pull the trigger and get people used to him being "in the hunt" and finally winning the title. They then need that 10 year return at least on that investment.

Even with Cody being relatively young, assuming his first gimmick clicked on his return and the fans and sponsors went wild for him, it's still going to take that time and need to pay off for that period to make it worth their while. Ultimately it's why so many guys haven't received the nod, like Barrett, Sandow, Rhodes and Cesaro.... Could they be "World Champs", yes, for a short period but there'd be no longevity to justifty the investment... either through injury or them wanting to move out of the business.



Guys like Ambrose are in their building phase, probably year 2 of it, where as Seth and Roman are now far ahead of him, he got some wasted development with that US title reign as at the time he was the guy they NEEDED to get over, not Reigns. Priority quickly changed and Dean became the bonus guy to get over. He didn't do much wrong, but Seth and Roman quickly became guys WWE could invest and get that 10 years+ out of at the top, whereas Dean was still not quite there.

Your supermax stars, like the Cena's, Lesnar's and prior like Edge, Orton & Taker are where they are because of MANY years of development to get to the main event, then many years of sustainable push to seem like "the elite". WWE hasn't managed to replicate THAT kind of push in a long time. Where a Jericho or Edge could legit get that push over a long time, hold on to it and have that long term view.

Jericho got the belt in 2000 for one night and it was handed back to Trips, why? Cos they tested it, they knew he was over and that it would eventually work, but the time wasn't quite right... he got it a while later and it didn't work cos they deviated from what got him over, but they knew they could go back to it later and in 2008 onwards, he became that true main event star. Likewise for The Rock, he got his initial push, then another and then a LONG period where he could feud with Austin and the like but even without the belt, be the focal point of shows.... even if he was feuding with Rikishi.

That's what WWE is messing up - Vince basically can't decide who he wants to be that guy, but like in 1995 he wants it all to be about the one he chooses... Attitude worked because there was something for everyone and they were all the guys Vince was choosing. Taker (only became true Main Event in 97) Austin, Rock, Foley, Triple H, Angle, Jericho, Lesnar, Benoit, Eddy, Cena, Batista, Edge... One a year for 10 years was created and feuded with each other to help get the others over.

WWE can;t do that any more cos right now tis all about Reigns cos thats who (like Nash) Vince has chosen.

The fans don't want the guy he chose, the writers don't care because Vince decides anyway and the talent are now very clearly getting sick of it just as guys did in 1994 which led to the WCW exodus that nearly killed WWE.

Ziggler bottled his leaving but Barrett and now Cody have very publicly said "No... WWE is not right." and voted with their feet. Perhaps rather than every 5 years they blow an opportunity, more worryingly is for the next couple of years we see another of these big leavings every 6 months or so as contracts end... Orton is my next bet and he could very easily be that Randy Savage level game changer.
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  #13  
Old 05-23-2016, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencesc11 View Post
What I would do...

Reigns Heel Turn and has The Club join forces with him (Balor, Anderson, & Gallows)
The reality is taht Reigns already is a heel. He has no problem using weapons. He has no issue with outside interference. He's coming off a two-month program against one of the most popular guys in the company. And he gets booed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencesc11 View Post
Styles as a stand alone face
This will come in time, but the best route for the WWE is to have Styles and Balor in The Club at the same time so the two can build animosity. The longer you keep these two together, the bigger the payoff will be when they eventually work a match against one another. This is a money match and should happen at WrestleMania, in my opinion. If you remove Styles from The Club right now and bring in Balor immediately, then the match either comes at a weak pay-per view like Hell in a Cell or it happens at SummerSlam but doesn't get the build it deserves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencesc11 View Post
Ambrose & Rollins become the new age DX (pulling pranks on Reigns and his new lackies.
Um... no thanks. For starters, Ambrose needs to get away from the comedic crazy character and get more into the sadistic crazy character (like a Foley.) Additionally, the WWE typically does a piss-poor job with comedy and this would most likely come off as incredibly lame. Even DX came off as lame in the mid-2000s. As for Rollins, his character has never been about pulling pranks, and I just think that'd be a really strange, potentially harmful character shift for a guy who is already an established main event talent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencesc11 View Post
Build some new tag teams to keep that division solid
Sami Zayn and Cesaro would be a nice look as another face team....
Maybe take Luke Harper and pair him with Baron Corbin
This starts off simple enough, but the truth is that the WWE spent 10-15 years just using thrown-together tag teams. Sometimes it's worked (The New Day), but it failed more often than not (literally too many to name...) One of the reasons it fails so often is because these thrown-together tag teams don't typically want to change their gimmicks to fit a group. They also don't understand the nuances of tag-team wrestling.

Instead of going back to the era where the WWE just used the tag-team division as a dumping ground for underused talent, perhaps the WWE can continue to use NXT as a breeding ground for potential new tag teams

As relates to Cesaro/Zayn and Corbin/Harper... No, just no. Guys like Cesaro and Zayn are absolutely at the top of what is becoming a very, very strong mid-card division. Why in the world would we take the top two faces in that division and put them in what you already believe to be a 'solid' tag-team division? You're basically weakening an entire division just to add negligible improvement to a lower-tier division.

As for Corbin, you have two options... He can either go through the growing pains of establishing his singles character now... or he can go through those pains a year down the line after what more than likely would be an unsuccessful tag run. If the WWE thinks this guy can make it to the top of the card in the next couple years, then they might as well try to establish him as the singles wrestler now. There's no reason for this guy to form a tag-team, especially since it would most likely get lost in the shuffle with The New Day, The Vaudvillains, Enzo and Cass, The Usos, The Club and an eventual debuting American Alpha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencesc11 View Post
Release Rowan & Strowman but bring Bray Wyatt back as a Mankind like tweener. He should get his first gold to maybe the I-C or US Title.
Wyatt already is a tweener. The fans have been cheering him for a long while now. As for Mankind comparisons, those are unfair. The only reason that character had any longevity was because Mick Foley pulled a sock out of his pants. And that's not my opinion - it's Foley's. Forget all the heel/face turns Foley had between 1997-99, the guy had just as many character changes... and while it was fun to see him go back and forth between Mankind, Cactus Jack and Dude Love - Mankind was probably the least over of the 3 - which is why he was generating no reaction from the crowd within 2 months of falling off the HIAC. It really wasn't until he debuted Mr. Socko that the fans gravitated to that character.

Why would you want that for Wyatt? The guy is fine as he is. He's a complex character, a cult leader who people follow. If you take away Rowan, Strowman and - as suggested above - Harper, then you're taking away his ENTIRE character. The WWE already tried this once. It failed. That's why they brought it back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencesc11 View Post
Create a Woman's tag team championship. If your going to build up the ladies they need more stories to work with. Bailey and Becky would be a great face team. Natalyia could team with Paige and so on. Also to build on this you have Charlotte form a 4 horsewomen on the main roster. (Charlotte, Dana Brooke, Paige, & Natalyia).
The Women's Division is better than ever, there's no question. But I'm not sure there's even enough talent in the division to have a second singles title right now - much less tag team titles! Right now, you have Charlotte, Becky Lynch, Sasha Banks, Natalya, Paige and - if we're being generous - Naomi and Emma. In a few weeks/months, you'll have Bayley, but there's really no one else in NXT that's particularly close to joining the main roster. So that's 7 women right now that can work good matches with an 8th presumably on her way. If you have a tag-team division, then it'll basically be the champs defeating Team A one month, Team B the next month, Team A the month after, and then Team B again following that... It really wouldn't be much of a division.

Sorry if I failed to include Alicia Fox, Eva Marie, Dana Brook, Rosa Mendez, Tamina and Summer Rae -- but they should be treated more as jobbers than actual focal points of any real program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencesc11 View Post
Summerslam Card
Roman Reigns (C) vs. Brock Lesnar (WWE Title)
Ambrose/Rollins vs. Anderson/Gallows
Rusev (C) vs. John Cena (US Title)
New Day (C) vs. Harper/Corbin (Tag Titles)
Styles vs. Balor
Miz vs. Wyatt vs. Owens vs. S. Joe (I-C Title)
Charlotte vs. Sasha Banks (Diva's Title)
Becky/Bailey vs. Paige/Natalyia (pre-show)
Zayn/Cesaro vs. The Vaudevillians
Big Cass vs. Sheamus (pre-show)
There's some good and bad here...

I can see them going Reigns vs. Lesnar. No one beats Brock. So if they really want to build up Reigns, then having him beat Brock would be one way to do that.

I get where you're going with Rollins/Ambrose vs The Club, but I just don't think the best use of Rollins and Ambrose is to have them go against the tag-team portion of a stable. A better idea for The Club would be to have them team with either Balor or Styles (or both) to take on The Wyatt Family. The fans are really into both groups and would be pretty hot for this match.

Rusev v. Cena is a good call. I definitely see that being possible... I can even see Rusev retaining this time, but I am a self-diagnosed optimist...

New Day vs Harper/Corbin (Tag Titles) is highly unlikely for a number of reasons. First, Harper is injured and probably won't be ready by August. Second, even if Harper miraculously came back and randomly teamed with Corbin - there are 3-4 teams ahead of them in the pecking order. No way they get an immediate title shot at the second-biggest show of the year.

A more likely match would be New Day vs Enzo and Big Cass. If Enzo only suffered a concussion, then he should be back before the WWE starts building the SummerSlam card in late July. This is the match people want to see. The promos leading up to the match would be spectacular. And the fans would probably lose their mind during the match.

Styles vs Balor. There's no question the fans want to see this match. But I just want there to be more build to this match. I want Styles to continue to lead The Club while Balor gets his feet wet. I want to see all four guys together. And I want to see the eventual cracks in the seams as Styles and Balor clash. I think this can all be dragged out for months and see no reason in abandoning it this quickly just to get a mid-card match at SummerSlam... especially when a slow build could lead to a bigger match on a bigger stage next spring.

How many Fatal 4-Ways can we have for the IC Title?! And why are we randomly throwing Samoa Joe into matches when he's pretty necessary to the NXT brand (especially once Balor leaves.) Let's simplify this one... SummerSlam is where things typically culminate. It's booked similar to 'Mania, in that the WWE likes to send fans home happy. Of the people feuding for the IC Title right now, who would fans be happiest to see as champion? Cesaro. That, to me, is the likely SummerSlam match...

Charlotte vs Sasha is a good call since it's pretty much set on stone. I also like your pre-show idea of having the women compete. However, I think you're more likely to see a bigger match featuring a number of the women wrestlers similar to what happened at WrestleMania.

Zayn/Cesaro are not, and should not be a tag team. You want to know a more likely match for Zayn at SummerSlam - Kevin Owens. These two absolutely crushed it at Payback, and given how likely it is for the two of them to both qualify for the MITB match this month - the chances of their feud simmering down prior to SummerSlam is pretty small.

Big Cass vs Sheamus - I just think we're putting too much stock into Big Cass's singles run these past few weeks. Once Enzo is back, he's gonna go back to being a tag-team guy.

My SS card would be:

Reigns v. Lesnar (WWE TITLE MATCH)
Rusev v. Cena (US TITLE MATCH)
Miz v. Cesaro (IC TITLE MATCH)
Charlotte v. Sasha Banks (WOMEN'S TITLE MATCH)
New Day v. Enzo and Big Cass (TAG TITLE MATCH)
Triple H v. Shane McMahon
Rollins v. AJ Styles
Owens v. Zayn
Balor/Anderson/Gallows v. Wyatt/Strowman/Rowan
Ambrose v. Orton

Pre-Show
Lucha Dragons v. The Usos v. The Vaudvillains v. Sheamus / Del Rio (#1 Contenders Match)
Paige/Natalya/Lynch v. Naomi/Tamina/Fox

--------------------------------------------------------------

As for the totality of this thread, the biggest missed moment of the year so far has been Dean Ambrose - and it's not particularly close. Here's a guy who came into the year with the potential of solidifying himself as a main event star, but has fallen flat due to some shoddy booking. Do I put this on the level of whiffing on The Invasion Angle, of dropping the ball on ECW, or of completely missing the mark with CM Punk? Not even close. But short of The Club, the WWE hasn't had a real chance to miss on a monumental program this year. And since I don't think the ball has truly been dropped w/ The Club yet, I'm giving this spot to Ambrose.

This all started w/ The Network Special when they interrupted his program with Lesnar just so they could feed him to Triple H. Not only did no one believe he had a shot of winning that match, but the realization that he had no chance of winning that match reminded people how far away from being a real main event threat Ambrose truly is.

From there, they took him to WrestleMania to work a program against Lesnar. Did he need to win that match? No. But he needed to put up a fight. That match was booked as a glorified squash match for Lesnar! And here's the thing, even if Lesnar was going to run right through Ambrose - at least sell Ambrose on the fact that he has enough balls to get his ass kicked and still ask for more. Unfortunately, they couldn't do that with Ambrose because that spot was given to Shane McMahon later in the night. Think about that for a second... the WWE writers booked Shane McMahon - a 43-year old executive with 10 matches under his belt, none of which have occurred in the past 8 years - to come out of 'Mania looking stronger than Ambrose.

And since then, he's been in a mostly flat feud with Jericho - one that has been void of any real drama or intrigue.

Now, the ball being dropped on Ambrose thus far could be overtaken if the WWE does eventually drops the ball w/ The Club. And while I haven't been thrilled with their booking, I have cut it some slack because I think they'll heat up when Balor debuts in the coming weeks/months. If I'm wrong, though, then The Club will absolutely take over the top spot.

Last edited by justinept : 05-23-2016 at 12:03 PM.
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