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  #21  
Old 05-07-2016, 09:01 PM
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I'd need to see what kind of numbers ROH is pulling, but I'm pretty sure they still trail TNA despite the massive audience loss they've suffered the last two years. For now, TNA is still the second largest wrestling brand. But they're falling fast. If NXT were on cable tomorrow, I have no doubt in my mind they'd surpass TNA within their first month.
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  #22  
Old 05-08-2016, 05:36 AM
Rayne Rayne is offline
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Originally Posted by It's Damn Real! View Post
I'd need to see what kind of numbers ROH is pulling, but I'm pretty sure they still trail TNA despite the massive audience loss they've suffered the last two years. For now, TNA is still the second largest wrestling brand. But they're falling fast. If NXT were on cable tomorrow, I have no doubt in my mind they'd surpass TNA within their first month.
It's pretty damn near impossible to accurately peg ROH's viewership numbers due to the way their programming is played on Sinclair's networks. Instead of the more modern system of a professional wrestling company having a show on a major network at a set time, ROH uses something more like the distribution model of professional wrestling in the '70s and early '80s, where professional wrestling companies would sell their programming to local stations, meaning a show might be on at different times and different days in different markets.

Sinclair both sells the rights to ROH programming, and uses ROH to fill holes in the programming of stations that they own themselves; so the only real way to get an idea of ROH's viewership would be to tally up the results from all of those independent stations. The Nielsen folk surely have little interest in doing that work, so the only people who could do anything more than ballpark ROH's viewership numbers would be Sinclair Broadcasting.


However, since I know I'm ballparking, I'll go ahead and ballpark- TNA probably gets more viewers than ROH on television. ROH is aired at some truly dreadful hours in some of their markets, and due to their nature as a gap-filler for local stations, they often find their programming times jerked around. However, if we include internet viewership, ROH is likely attracting more viewers to their product on a week-by-week basis. If you don't have PopTV, you aren't watching TNA; meanwhile, anyone with an internet connection can watch every week of ROH programming.
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You clearly don't know what the hell you are talking back. NXT and ROH are shit. I tried watching both for 5 minutes and had to change the channel. It was 5 minutes of my life I would love to have back, both were hideous.


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  #23  
Old 05-08-2016, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by It's Damn Real! View Post
I'd need to see what kind of numbers ROH is pulling, but I'm pretty sure they still trail TNA despite the massive audience loss they've suffered the last two years. For now, TNA is still the second largest wrestling brand. But they're falling fast. If NXT were on cable tomorrow, I have no doubt in my mind they'd surpass TNA within their first month.
If TNA was on a better network, had monthly PPVs, a great DVD distribution, games and doing regular house shows, they would be a clear number two. But their business model is so screwed up and all over the place. They say they won't do house shows cause it cost too much yet smaller indies are travelling and doing house shows all over. They won't do proper PPV shows yet they continue doing these garbage pointless ONO PPV shows that nobody buys.

It sounds fishy to me. They have trouble being profitable yet won't do all the things they could be making money from. All the things most (even smaller) feds do.

This is why this company will only be successful again when Dixie sell it to a competent person.
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  #24  
Old 05-08-2016, 06:23 AM
Rayne Rayne is offline
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Originally Posted by New Hot Fed View Post
If TNA was on a better network, had monthly PPVs, a great DVD distribution, games and doing regular house shows, they would be a clear number two. But their business model is so screwed up and all over the place. They say they won't do house shows cause it cost too much yet smaller indies are travelling and doing house shows all over. They won't do proper PPV shows yet they continue doing these garbage pointless ONO PPV shows that nobody buys.

It sounds fishy to me. They have trouble being profitable yet won't do all the things they could be making money from. All the things most (even smaller) feds do.
Different models for a professional wrestling company. TNA is attempting to primarily be a television show right now; hence, most of their expenses are dedicated towards keeping the television show running. (Lucha Underground is pretty much the same model, although they're upfront with it in calling their content "seasons". TNA doesn't know what it wants to be in two years besides "not dead".) A smaller organization doesn't have those production expenses, or in ROH's case, keeps them deliberately low.

Short answer, TNA's business model doesn't work without having a television show, so they have to dedicate a large portion of their resources to that. Most other companies don't have that expense at all, and have a business model based around internet presence and local contact instead.
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  #25  
Old 05-08-2016, 07:38 AM
johnbragg johnbragg is offline
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Originally Posted by New Hot Fed View Post
If TNA was on a better network, had monthly PPVs, a great DVD distribution, games and doing regular house shows, they would be a clear number two.
Not so long ago, they had all of those things. But they weren't making enough money to be profitable, so they killed the monthly PPVs and the house shows. (Wrestling DVD sales were never strong for TNA, but I doubt that anyone is selling a lot of wrestling DVDs anymore.)

Quote:
But their business model is so screwed up and all over the place. They say they won't do house shows cause it cost too much yet smaller indies are travelling and doing house shows all over.
Other indies do mostly single house shows, and they do them only when and where they can sell enough tickets to make it worthwhile. If I remember right, TNA would try to do strings of house shows, and they'd all get poor attendance.

Making up stuff, ROH would do one show in Richmond, VA in a 7000 seat arena and sell 4000 tickets. TNA would do shows in Richmond, Norfolk, Fairfax, Baltimore and Harpers Ferry, and sell about the same 4000 tickets; but they were paying the costs to run five shows.

Quote:
They won't do proper PPV shows yet they continue doing these garbage pointless ONO PPV shows that nobody buys.
Randi Ricci's old blog seems to be gone, but he was involved in TNA production, and apparently doing live PPV or live TV is a significant cost. The ONOs must have some value, they've been going on too long for it just to be TNA filling a contract obligation to the PPV companies. (Maybe they're tied into the international TV deals, and TNA can't just cut out 36 hours of new content a year to the international partners?)

Quote:
It sounds fishy to me. They have trouble being profitable yet won't do all the things they could be making money from. All the things most (even smaller) feds do.
They did those things. They failed at them (at least in terms of doing them as profitable actitivities.) And most small feds fail, sooner or later. The ones that don't, ruthlessly control expenses.

Quote:
This is why this company will only be successful again when Dixie sell it to a competent person.
I'm not sure TNA is ever "successful." More likely, someone with less ego invested than Dixie just shuts it down when it's clear that there's no gold at the end of this rainbow, and moves on to another project.
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  #26  
Old 05-08-2016, 07:41 AM
johnbragg johnbragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
Different models for a professional wrestling company. TNA is attempting to primarily be a television show right now; hence, most of their expenses are dedicated towards keeping the television show running.
Problem is, TNA never figured out how to turn that TV audience into money, except in the form of TV rights fees. And that money is apparently gone. ("Gone" as a relative term, I'm sure they're getting *something* from PopTV and from overseas, but I'm guessing "Not much".)
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"Who will be at Wrestlemania in 2014?" That question should drive everything WWE does.

"Will there be a Bound For Glory in 2011, post-Hogan?" That is my question about TNA.

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  #27  
Old 05-08-2016, 08:29 AM
Rayne Rayne is offline
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Originally Posted by johnbragg View Post
Problem is, TNA never figured out how to turn that TV audience into money, except in the form of TV rights fees. And that money is apparently gone. ("Gone" as a relative term, I'm sure they're getting *something* from PopTV and from overseas, but I'm guessing "Not much".)
Welllllllll...... I never said their model worked.

When it comes time for the history of TNA to be written, a lot of people are going to focus on relatively inconsequential stuff like storylines, or perhaps symptoms of TNA's historic problem like their spending spree of 2009-10. TNA's issue is and always has been long-term planning. Typically when you run a business, you have a five-year plan. (Which I can speak from experience typically never resembles reality and requires constant updating.) Up until they decided to go big, it seems like they were enjoying stable, steady growth; then, they spent a lot of money hoping for an immediate return.

Ever since that didn't work out, TNA seems to be reacting to circumstances, rather than making any long-term plans. I'm quite sure their business model in 2011 didn't forecast them being a television-only show in 2016, but I don't think they were thinking anything regarding the long-term future by that point. This isn't me necessarily knocking the whole "invest big and Hail Mary" theory of investment; if you've got the money to play around with, sometimes it works out quite well. I'm quite sure that if TNA were to cease operations, Dixie Carter won't be heating up Spaghetti-O's in a microwave.

If there's a lesson to be learned here, it's this: investing in professional wrestling is for suckers. If you want to have a good time and have the money to spend, go for it- if I win the Powerball despite never buying tickets, it's on my bucket list. But if you really, really want to make money from professional wrestling, go to college or a good media school, get a degree in something like communications, and apply for a job with the WWE. (Don't emphasize how much of a fan you are, you might think it'll help your job chances but it's actually kind of the opposite.) It's a hell of a lot easier than trying to break into the 'making money' level by becoming a professional wrestler, plus the travel's comped.
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  #28  
Old 05-08-2016, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
Welllllllll...... I never said their model worked.
It's not just TNA, even though TNA gets the most crap. Nobody--not Eric Bischoff, not Paul Heymann, not the Jarretts, not Jerry LAwler, not Hogan and Hart and XWF, nobody--except Vince McMahon have figured out how to run a pro wrestling company where more money comes in than goes out. It's a TV business AND a live event business AND a merchandising business AND now a subscriber-based service AND a star-making business.

TNA has kept the doors open for nearly 14 years. That's more than anyone else has done since pro wrestling started to transition from the territories to national or syndicated TV.

Quote:
When it comes time for the history of TNA to be written, a lot of people are going to focus on relatively inconsequential stuff like storylines, or perhaps symptoms of TNA's historic problem like their spending spree of 2009-10.
Well, when they brought Hogan and Bischoff in, they had a plan--"Be what WCW was." It wasn't a very good plan, but they at least had a picture in their heads of what things would look like in 2015 if things went well.

There was the embryo of a plan before that, be the "alternative wrestling" show, the Sam Adams to WWE Budweiser. X-Division, Knockouts, Tag Teams, more indy-style action with a lighter touring schedule. They never quite put that together either, with Jarrett and Sting and always another WWE/WCW big name or two cycling through the main event. Not sure if anyone in NAshville had that plan for TNA, but plenty of people on the internet did.

Actually, that plan for TNA could be phrased as "be what NXT is now."


Quote:
TNA's issue is and always has been long-term planning. Typically when you run a business, you have a five-year plan. (Which I can speak from experience typically never resembles reality and requires constant updating.) Up until they decided to go big, it seems like they were enjoying stable, steady growth; then, they spent a lot of money hoping for an immediate return.

Ever since that didn't work out, TNA seems to be reacting to circumstances, rather than making any long-term plans. I'm quite sure their business model in 2011 didn't forecast them being a television-only show in 2016, but I don't think they were thinking anything regarding the long-term future by that point.
Very true. TNA 2009 could have taken what they had post-Jarrett, and built up the "cool wrestling show that your dopey little brother doesn't like" with Styles, Joe, Daniels, Kaz, Pope, Angle, Dinero, etc. But Hogan and Bischoff chased away the wrestling hipster fanbase that you could build that on, leaving nothing much.
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"Who will be at Wrestlemania in 2014?" That question should drive everything WWE does.

"Will there be a Bound For Glory in 2011, post-Hogan?" That is my question about TNA.

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