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  #21  
Old 03-11-2016, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mighty NorCal View Post
See, businesses like to do things like this to hide money they've made and use money they've spent to save more money. NXT may also be the little tax shelter that could. Not making a profit and not making any money are not the same things at all in this context.


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No, you didn't. The first guy did, and when I corrected him, you told me I don't know anything,
I'd really like to see that, because I don't recall having ever posted those words. I do recall typing the words "NorCal" and "was right" in the same sentence back there somewhere, however.

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When did I shit on NXT? He said they sell out every PPV, and I pointed out that there have been three mid sized buildings used, which in no way shape or form would result in NXT making "tons of money" or even turning a profit. That is a fact.
A sell-out is a sell-out and they certainly make a show of it enough themselves that pointing to it as a metric of success seems valid, though (as I stated already) I agree that does not mean they are making "tons of money". Hey, they aren't making a profit! Hey, they're still selling out and drawing (which was my point)!


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Because they would like to expand to a point of being able to make money, and not operate at a loss? Like the guy who runs the promotion said?
Why would you invest in something that wasn't otherwise giving you signals that it was worth it? Why would you talk about expansion to shareholders if there wasn't already initial success to build upon?

Two of the top ten selling shirts on the WWE Shop right now is for an NXT star (Balor), including the number one spot. The other shirt was number two as far back as August, if not further. KO was a big mover before he got pulled up to Raw. I wonder how much of that move contributed to the NXT operation loss. I mean, his stuff now is all WWE branded instead. Almost like they INTENDED to bring that money maker up to Raw to make things look better on paper for the conference call (which I genuinely was not aware of and am grateful for you bringing it to my attention) and other shareholder affairs.
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  #22  
Old 03-11-2016, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DirtyJosé View Post
See, businesses like to do things like this to hide money they've made and use money they've spent to save more money. NXT may also be the little tax shelter that could. Not making a profit and not making any money are not the same things at all in this context.
Ok, so we can go with what Triple H said, or we can imagine them making this a tax shelter. That must be it, the WWE is simply hiding all the profits NXT is making, because all the sense in the world

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Originally Posted by DirtyJosé View Post
Hey, they're still selling out and drawing (which was my point)!
And I went out of my way to point out the difference, but that wasn't the part of my post you disagreed with

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Originally Posted by DirtyJosé View Post

Why would you invest in something that wasn't otherwise giving you signals that it was worth it? Why would you talk about expansion to shareholders if there wasn't already initial success to build upon?
You are quoting the answer to what you are arguing against here. I have already said repeatedly that they are trying to expand the brand in order to make it profitable....I guess I just left it up to everyones common sense to put together that was based on the potential for it to be profitable based on the growth it already has had?
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  #23  
Old 03-11-2016, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Kodo Sawaki View Post
Exactly. People fail to realise that NXT is nothing more then developmental. Wrestlers go there and brush up their skills and gimmicks to go to main roster after. And as such is success. We have Divas and Intercontinental Champion from NXT. Former NXT Champion Seth Rollins was WWE World Heavyweight Champion. Half of roster now is more or less former NXT talents. But yeah, lets stick to the story that Vince hates NXT. That is so great, then we could love something that "Big Boss" hates and be cool.
Hmm, I'd say that by this point NXT is a bit more than "just" developmental, maybe that descriptor applied in 2014 but not anymore. I don't think it's anywhere near the top-drawing aspects of the company, but it definitely gets lots of focus on the Network and is definitely marketed towards certain kinds of core fan as opposed to say, Raw.

But yeah I agree with you otherwise and think this is largely dirtsheet rumour-mongering. I generally hate conspiracy theories but I can seriously buy that WWE knows by now after Austin and Punk and everything that deliberately building "alternative" was bound to provide a little more revenue even if it's nowhere near as solid a draw as the main roster guys (many of whom you correctly point out are former NXT).
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  #24  
Old 03-11-2016, 11:46 PM
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I haven't read all the responses so I apologize in advance if I'm going over ground someone else has. Let's face it, it would take forever for the WWE to make their own home grown stars, so the WWE have no choice but to go outside to the indies and other places to bring in new talent.

NXT is the perfect place for them to relearn the WWE way of doing things, and most of them will be fine when brought up to the main roster. I can't see Vince thinking that Finn Balor or Samoa Joe amoung others aren't money makers for his company, and there are many more names that can be put on that list.

Yes it's a development brand, but it's a damm good development brand. It tours makes money, sell merchandise and is a fixture on the network. Now not all the talent will make it to the top, and that goes for any of them, no matter where they came from. Someone like Tyler Breeze who was excellent in NXT, has been wasted on the main roster. The guy is a damm fine wrestler, but his gimmick sucks. And again that goes for a few of them, like Adam Rose and the Ascension. Besides not every gimmick that works at Full Sail will look good on national TV.

Whatever Vince McMahon thinks of NXT, it has a growing and very loyal fanbase, and McMahon would be an idiot to let that go.
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  #25  
Old 03-12-2016, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DirtyJosé View Post
What Vince and many others (yourself seemingly included) focused on was the gratuitous violence and adult content. What was lost was the attitude (no pun intended) and mystique. I'm not talking about senseless gimmick matches, I'm talking about the magic that made guys like Taz and others look so much better in ECW than anywhere else. Paul created a house of smoke and mirrors, and trying to duplicate that success without those parlor tricks is why Vince and almost everyone else has failed to create anything nearly as electric as ECW was at its peak. WCW managed to keep Raven a thing for a short while before screwing that pooch, but otherwise they were just as clueless as to what to do with Paul's boys.
Yeah, but see the problem with that is that ECW sold itself on the gratuitous violence and over the top adult content. Whenever I saw a commercial for ECW or an advertisement for an upcoming ppv event the company was having, what I saw was clip after clip of Sabu leaping off ladders onto guys lying on tables, Bam Bam Bigelow and Taz going through the ramp leading down to the ring, Sandman waving a kendo stick while smacking beer cans into his head to cut himself open, Tommy Dreamer knocking Brian Lee off the top of some sort of make shift scaffold above the ring through piles of stacked tables, New Jack leaping off a balcony in the arena landing on a prone guy on bare concrete 15 feet or so below, etc. I know some complain that ECW was more than just the over the top violence and adult content, but it's difficult for me and many others to see it when over the top violence and content was what was constantly being hyped to sell the brand.

Generally speaking, getting back to NXT, I agree that NXT is generally the developmental brand of WWE. One of the reasons why it's flourished by being able to attract such high profile talent is because WWE is footing the bill for NXT. Yes, it's true that NXT is making a good deal of money for the company in terms of helping with network subscriptions, merchandise and touring; however, what a lot of people are taking for granted is that NXT didn't have to start from the ground up like any indie company out there because of WWE's deep pockets. Also, as I originally pointed out, if Vince was genuinely as displeased with the guys coming into NXT as the WON suggests, I feel that a lot of changes would be made. As I also alluded to, and as others have said, if Vince has any sort of hard feelings on anything, I think it's more about the fact that his son in law's little project has grown in such outstanding measures and that said son in law is much more in tune with the changing mind set of modern fans than he is.
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  #26  
Old 03-27-2016, 05:57 PM
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Hey Guys (and Gals if any) I agree with with some of your comments but what most of you fail to realize is that the WWE is a billion dollar business. But to continue to thrive as such, Vince needs top draws. Cena is injured, Bryan has retired, Undertaker is near the end, and Brock is sporadic. Its not that Vince does not like NXT, he's thinking to himself are there anyone or anybody on NXT's roster (past or present) that has the potential to come close to what Hogan did in the 80's, what Rock, Austin, Hart, Michaels and Undertaker did in the 90's, and what Cena, Brock, Bryan, Orton, and possibly Reigns and Ambrose are doing or were doing now.
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  #27  
Old 03-27-2016, 06:29 PM
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Vince has two issues with NXT. One, it is actual wrestling before entertainment as the main roster is the opposite. Vince from day one in the business wanted entertainment over wrestling. That he can change any time he chooses. Two is the bigger problem. NXT hasn't produced the next Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan or John Cena and he can't change that. In the history of the WWWF/WWF/WWE every face of the company has been an extension of those people's personalities but Vince wants a gimmick over personality. The people that succeed out of NXT already had years of working so they already had experience but now Vince moves people up to main roster so fast it's like throwing darts and usually he misses the board.
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  #28  
Old 03-28-2016, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rmp0012002 View Post
Vince has two issues with NXT. One, it is actual wrestling before entertainment as the main roster is the opposite. Vince from day one in the business wanted entertainment over wrestling. That he can change any time he chooses. Two is the bigger problem. NXT hasn't produced the next Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan or John Cena and he can't change that. In the history of the WWWF/WWF/WWE every face of the company has been an extension of those people's personalities but Vince wants a gimmick over personality. The people that succeed out of NXT already had years of working so they already had experience but now Vince moves people up to main roster so fast it's like throwing darts and usually he misses the board.
I disagree with your first statement, WWE then WWF (before the eighties) was about pure wrestling. Yes, there were larger than life wrestling personalities who transcended back and forth between wrestling and entertainment (i.e. Gorgeous George and Andre The Giant) but never did the two genre really coincide until the mid eighties. Vince saw the potential during his father's tenure, but took a VERY HUGE risk when he took over the company. A risk that eventually paid off.
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