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  #11  
Old 02-22-2016, 12:24 PM
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ts hard to say in that time period what went off as planned and what was "hijacked" Michaels ego had pretty much gotten big enough that he needed an 18 wheeler to carry it around after not getting punished for the kliq "curtain call" less than a year earlier and at some point around that time period (late '96 early '97) said he was done doing jobs. So I could see this being an example of hijacked booking after all, Michaels was one of if not their top guy at that moment in time, and with guys still jumping ship to WCW I could see where the booking could have gotten changed to keep Michaels happy. I could definitely see him pulling an injury to change the booking.
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Well it depends who you believe lol. If you believe Bret, the booking was hijacked by Shawn Michaels. If you believe Shawn, nothing was done without Vince signing off on it.

I personally believe it was both. The booking was hijacked by Shawn AND Vince signed off on it. I believe Vince was RELIEVED when Shawn came up with his bogus "injury" ( an "injury he had been wrestling with since 1990). Shawn was causing nothing but problems backstage. He was an insecure, neurotic, functioning drug addict (as described by Bret and confirmed by Shawn) Shawn CLEARLY was threatened by Bret and his new contract (Vince HAD to make Bret his top guy because he paying him over a million dollars a year!) So Shawn went about trying to sabotage Bret (even though both had agreed to "work" each other in the media and on TV).

It was a collision course for disaster which ultimately led to the "Montreal Screwjob"
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  #12  
Old 02-22-2016, 04:40 PM
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It all comes down to Shawn Michaels being a dick (and I'd say he still is as, in a fair few interviews, he still smiles when he says "Vince didn't know what to do at WM13" mainly because Shawn fucked everyone about).

Bret vs Austin was a good back-up match (and turned into one of the biggest matches in wrestling history in retrospect of where Austin ended up afterwards) but making it a submission match and adding Shamrock just reeked of Vince having to throw shit at the wall due to his planned main event going out the window.

I always heard the plan was for HBK to lose the belt back to Sid at Thursday Raw Thursday (the smile losing Raw) and then put over Bret in a no.1 contenders match at WM13....by "losing his smile" (and deciding to dress like a teacher) HBK managed to sidestep 2 jobs to 2 guys that'd done the job for him on big stages and completely throw the companies top event into chaos.

Mind you, like his mate Triple H being a dick with the curtain call resulted in KOTR 96 getting a new winner, it seemed that when HBK and his mates fucked about it actually ended up being the best thing for WWF business (and him fucking his back up at Rumble 98 was a Godsend as it meant there wasn't no drugged up twat causing Vince and co issues so they could completely focus on the new direction the company was heading
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  #13  
Old 02-22-2016, 05:02 PM
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It all comes down to Shawn Michaels being a dick (and I'd say he still is as, in a fair few interviews, he still smiles when he says "Vince didn't know what to do at WM13" mainly because Shawn fucked everyone about).
True. BUT I have to look at it from Shawn's view as well. Shawn just finished a YEAR run on top (wrestling 300 plus days) with NO help. Nash was gone, Hall was gone, Bret was gone, Kid was gone, HHH was getting buried. It was ALL on HBK's shoulders....and he did a HORRIBLE job of handling it. But he brought it EVERY single night. He sees his buddies getting millions at WCW for 1/2 the work....then he sees Bret, who he felt walked out on him when he needed him the most just to see if he could handle being the top guy, get a record contract after sitting out a WHOLE year.

So from THAT perspective....can't really blame Shawn for not wanting to put Bret over. But yeah Shawn was EVERYTHING that he was accused of being in the '90's.
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  #14  
Old 02-22-2016, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
True. BUT I have to look at it from Shawn's view as well. Shawn just finished a YEAR run on top (wrestling 300 plus days) with NO help. Nash was gone, Hall was gone, Bret was gone, Kid was gone, HHH was getting buried. It was ALL on HBK's shoulders....and he did a HORRIBLE job of handling it. But he brought it EVERY single night. He sees his buddies getting millions at WCW for 1/2 the work....then he sees Bret, who he felt walked out on him when he needed him the most just to see if he could handle being the top guy, get a record contract after sitting out a WHOLE year.

So from THAT perspective....can't really blame Shawn for not wanting to put Bret over. But yeah Shawn was EVERYTHING that he was accused of being in the '90's.
I kinda get what you're saying but, by October 96 Triple H was the IC champion and was back on the rise. More importantly a lot of the reason that Shawn was doing it on his own was because he was a dick. Who was it that made a superman come-back at the end of "International Incident" in July 96 and sent the PPV off the air with him having destroyed Vader, thus killing interest in people seeing him somehow overcome a monster"? There was a good chance that HBK vs Vader could have done some serious (by the standards of the time) business and would've been a really good feud to go to while they set up others like Sid etc to edge towards the main event scene.
The best bit was seeing and hearing HBK getting pissed at the fans rejecting him at Survivor Series 96 and then when they clearly were calling "bullshit" on his "injury"
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  #15  
Old 02-22-2016, 06:28 PM
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Backflip off the top rope, people!! Remember! Hahaha...Bret still sounds pissed about it saying Michaels' knee was never hurt. Shawn says he really was hurt but when he recovered he did that flip just to piss off Bret.


It'll forever be a "Bret said this, Shawn said that" pissing match for eternity. They may have patched things up but some wounds never heal.

That is all for today.
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  #16  
Old 02-22-2016, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by harrythem View Post
It all comes down to Shawn Michaels being a dick (and I'd say he still is as, in a fair few interviews, he still smiles when he says "Vince didn't know what to do at WM13" mainly because Shawn fucked everyone about).

Bret vs Austin was a good back-up match (and turned into one of the biggest matches in wrestling history in retrospect of where Austin ended up afterwards) but making it a submission match and adding Shamrock just reeked of Vince having to throw shit at the wall due to his planned main event going out the window.

I always heard the plan was for HBK to lose the belt back to Sid at Thursday Raw Thursday (the smile losing Raw) and then put over Bret in a no.1 contenders match at WM13....by "losing his smile" (and deciding to dress like a teacher) HBK managed to sidestep 2 jobs to 2 guys that'd done the job for him on big stages and completely throw the companies top event into chaos.

Mind you, like his mate Triple H being a dick with the curtain call resulted in KOTR 96 getting a new winner, it seemed that when HBK and his mates fucked about it actually ended up being the best thing for WWF business (and him fucking his back up at Rumble 98 was a Godsend as it meant there wasn't no drugged up twat causing Vince and co issues so they could completely focus on the new direction the company was heading
That's true. No HBK = No Attitue Era. As much as a dick HBK was, everything that he did from 1996 onwards led to Ausin becoming the top guy.
1996: Curtain call happens. HHH is suspended and does not win the KOTR as it was planned, but instead Austin wins it and drops the "Austin 3:16" line.
1997: HBK loses his smile. No HBK vs Bret II at Wrestlemania. Austin takes his place and delivers a 5-star match that boosts him to superstandom.
1998: HBK puts over Austin, leaves and returns after Austin has left.
It's like a sign from the heavens, really.
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  #17  
Old 02-22-2016, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
True. BUT I have to look at it from Shawn's view as well. Shawn just finished a YEAR run on top (wrestling 300 plus days) with NO help. Nash was gone, Hall was gone, Bret was gone, Kid was gone, HHH was getting buried. It was ALL on HBK's shoulders....and he did a HORRIBLE job of handling it. But he brought it EVERY single night. He sees his buddies getting millions at WCW for 1/2 the work....then he sees Bret, who he felt walked out on him when he needed him the most just to see if he could handle being the top guy, get a record contract after sitting out a WHOLE year.

So from THAT perspective....can't really blame Shawn for not wanting to put Bret over. But yeah Shawn was EVERYTHING that he was accused of being in the '90's.
Both guys had huge egos back then. And to tell you the truth, Bret sitting out only to come back after so many months only to beat Shawn at Wrestlemania and bocome Vince's #1 guy again was just bad bussiness. Bret was in his 40s then. How could that guy carry the company and not HBK who was much younger?
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  #18  
Old 02-23-2016, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kpgreece View Post
Both guys had huge egos back then. And to tell you the truth, Bret sitting out only to come back after so many months only to beat Shawn at Wrestlemania and bocome Vince's #1 guy again was just bad bussiness. Bret was in his 40s then. How could that guy carry the company and not HBK who was much younger?
Well the idea that Bret and Shawn had pitched or talked about back before WM12 was for a sequence of matches whereby Shawn beat Bret at 12, Bret beat Shawn at 13 and then they would have three more title matches throughout the next two years (ironically Survivor Series 97 was meant to be one and I think Shawn was meant to go over there) with HBK eventually coming out ahead 3-2. That would allow Bret to move in to a part-time role away from the title and would solidify Shawn as the number one in the company.

Obviously the big problem in all of that (even aside from the hatred that would grow between them) is that it doesn't take in to account the rise of other superstars, Steve Austin being the one that shot ahead of both, and was essentially Bret and Shawn booking themselves in money positions.
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