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  #81  
Old 02-16-2016, 04:09 PM
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ilapierre ilapierre is offline
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Originally Posted by stingray11214 View Post
First of all, when you start engaging in name calling, it is a sign that you lost the argument. It is very obvious that you are a Savage fanboy. I get that. You may have your opinion, but not your own facts. As for me? take a look at the upper left hand corner. You will see my age. I have been watching wrestling since your mother was still probably in grade school. I can stand here and actually say that I remember Eddie Einhorn's IWA. What was the IWA? It was the first attempt at a "National" federation. It predated Vince Jr.'s attempt by 10 years. I remember the Mighty Igor coming down the aisle eating a big piece of kielbasa. Gino Brito and Dino Bravo in their wars with the Mongols. Oh, and I remember when WWWF Championship Wrestling was only seen in New York on Channel 47 (Spanish language) at 11:30 on a Friday night.

As for Savage: No, he was not a draw. Not like Backlund. Not like Hogan. Definitely not like Bruno or the Rock. He had his fans, yes. But, there were many a Monday night in Madison Square Garden during Savage's title reign when you had 9,000-13,000 show up. This was BEFORE the big stages that WWE now employ. The wrestlers came down the same aisle that the Knicks and Rangers came down. No set. No fireworks. No Titantron You might think that this was great. For now? Maybe. For a venue that used to sell out with 25,000 EVERY third Monday for Backlund, Hogan, Graham and Sammartino? Not so much. Granted, he made his forays into the mainstream with his Slim Jim commercials. But, so did King Kong Bundy and George "The Animal" Steele with their commercials as well. They are not in anyone's Top 11.

You also have to take into account, since you are the one who mentioned "Savage being a legend in other areas", the six years he spent in his Father's "Vanity project": the International Championship Wrestling promotion (Not to be confused with Mario Savoldi's version). You know, the one he set up because he felt his sons were being "misused". The one that had Lanny Poffo as its World Champion, and Randy Savage fighting him for over 6 years, winning the ICW strap 3 times in the process. I mean, why would he not? That was his father's intention, right? Again, I am looking at the whole body of work here.

That said, let us look at Andre the Giant: Andre was a "special attraction". They had these in the days of the Territories. Until the early 80's, you could have an card at an arena in the South that would announce Christ's Second Coming. And the King of Kings himself would confirm his attendance. However, if Andre was booked for the same card on the same night. guess who would get to billing? Safe to say it was not the Lord. Now, back in those days, there were no foam fingers, shirts, hats, wristbands. They had programs and photographs for sale. Usually, they were 5x7's. Sometimes, you would also have 8x10's. you would buy a photo, and go up to the ring after the match, and get it signed. That was the extent of the marketing in those days. Andre was all over the USA. And, he drew all over until the early 80's. His legacy is very much intact.



As for Flair: Granted, most of his career was in the NWA. I remember being on vacation in Virginia Beach with my Dad and my Aunt and her family. We drove to the Norfolk Scope to see Tony Atlas wrestle Flair in '79. Great night. Back to my point, since WWE took over much of JCP's library and history, they added his NWA history. Though you MAY have an argument for Shaun Michaels, he transcended eras. And, he performed at a top level AFTER coming back from his injuries. Furthermore, he also helped develop young wrestlers. One of his students was someone from some place called Aberdeen, Washington.. I believe his name is Danielson. Or is it Bryan. I forget in my old age.


As for Trips: As I have said before and will say again, the book on Trips is STILL being written. You may argue that he had the same benefit as Savage did as Trips married into the McMahon family. However, unlike Savage, you can credit Trips with the development of the future in NXT. Savage was mostly about himself. Case in point was when Savage interfered in a match between Flair and Alex Wright. He got into Wright's face and told him "If you have a problem with what I just did to Flair, you have a problem with me!" Though it was storyline, it also showed the contempt the WCW vets had for the younger generation. Unlike Savage, Trips is constantly pushing the next generation. How many wrestlers had Savage developed?

Now, with THAT list is concerned, Savage brings up the rear. No disgrace, mind you. But number 6 is not happening. Maybe you were not born yet and are just listening to the stories. Maybe you watching the WWE Network, and saw only his stuff and proclaim Savage to be greater than he really was. Would I replace him with Cena? Negative. Backlund, Graham, Morales maybe. But not Cena. That said, before you start the age and name calling, read some posts from the one you are going to attack. Maybe you might learn something. Peace.
Oh my, where to start with all your relentless flaunting of trivial wrestling knowledge that has absolutely nothing to do with the argument at hand. Let's do bullet points because I'm feeling lazy.

Oh wow, I've already lost the 'argument' because you believe I'm name calling you. Hardly. First of all, your opinion, which you try so hard to present as fact, needs to be addressed. Second, I simply addressed it. Me addressing you is not a sign I've 'lost' a damn thing..You thinking something so silly though may be a sign you've lost your mind. If you're not in touch with reality then how can your opinion count for anything? And how could I POSSIBLY lose an argument to someone who is legitimately claiming that Randy Savage is the worst wrestler on a list that includes Triple H?

I am a huge Savage mark. He is my favourite all time wrestler. He is a lot of old wrestling fans' favourite as well. Preferring him over every other wrestler in history has nothing to do with the fact that I'm arguing he is not #11 on a list that includes Triple H or Andre the Giant.. Nobody anywhere in any galaxy can successfully argue either of them rank higher than Savage on any best ever list.

As for Savage, he was no Backlund? Give me one second while I cry and shit my pants laughing at your ignorance. Could you imagine the crowds Mr. Howdy Doody could have flocking to Wrestlemania 2 vs King Kong Bundy? Captain America vs George the Animal? Yeah right! Could you imagine all the merchandise they could have sold for a guy who was like watching paint dry? All the movies Backlund would have starred in because he was so damn charismatic? Please. Only 9,000 people showed up to watch Savage headline once? Was that during an insane three day snowstrom in the dead of winter? Sources please, no talking out your ass. And regardless if you're right or wrong, are you trying to tell me that never in Bob's history did he main event a show for WWE with less than 9,000? Again, sources please.

I chuckled at your little IWA writeup. Does knowing all that inconsequential stuff make you feel like you know more about wrestling history than me or anyone else? Plenty of written and visual material out there. You apparently watched Mr Charisma Dino Bravo take on the ground breaking Mongols? Everyone stand up and bow. You are a wrestling trivia champ! But why don't you check my age? I'm 92. Your mom was probably coming out her mom's ass when I witnessed Ed Don George lose his title to Ed Strangler Lewis. Just like you're losing this argument to me. See two people can play that game.

Savage wasn't Bruno or Backlund or Billy Graham? You take Savage in 1988 and you drop him into WWE circa 1963 or 1977 or 1982 and he outsells the three 10 times over. That's no knock on any of them or their ability. Savage was just that much better.

Savage's dad pushed him and his brother on the independent circuit for half a decade? Oh yeah, NO ONE ANYWHERE wanted to watch that amazing feud, right? Compared to the McMahons pushing Triple H on the biggest stage of them all, night in and night out, for 20 years. Thing is one of these guys had talent and charisma and the other one doesn't and never did. And you believe the latter deserves to be on a top 10 list? That sound is me scoffing...

Good for Andre. So tell me just how could WWF have booked him as company face and draw over Savage? You're telling me Andre's catchphrases and merchandise would have outdone Savage's let alone Jim Powers'? I'm confused. Andre was a major draw everywhere. In the 1970s as a 7'4 500 pound man. He put butts in the seats and then those people went to sleep in their seats whenever he wrestled and his initial novelty wore off. In fact the guy was so boring that he himself fell asleep in the ring. Kids woulda loved him! Parents would have too. Good night sleeps all the way around! Fuck, too bad Hogan had to exist. Instead we could have had Andremania running wild!

Good for Flair. He was the best ever wrestler. And good for your dad and aunt. If I didn't realize you had gone on vacation, then I would not have realized you were so right and I was just so wrong lol. And good for Shawn. A million times the wrestler and personality Triple H or Andre ever were. Oh and thanks for reminding me about that Bryan Danielson guy. He should be on this list instead of either of those two.

Triple H's book is still being written. Unfortunately, none of us are taking his book seriously (and haven'ts since 2000) because of who he is and how much power he has over the decision making process and his own nauseating, never ending, push.. Trips married into the family, Savage diddled Vince's underage daughter. WWE revisionist history has done it's best to push one to the moon and downplay the other into obscurity. And NO, sorry bud none of us can credit Trips with the development of NXT. WWE created NXT. WWE professionals develop NXTers. Not Paul. I'm so sick and tired of listening to utter morons giving all the credit for good ideas to Triple H and all the bad ideas gets blamed on Vince. Vince is a genius. Paul is a Yes Man. Truth is Triple H is a cancer on the wrestling industry. If you don't know this already, go watch Paul's mockography Wrestling Isn't Wrestling. Funny how you remember Savage interrupted the Wright-Flair. So that piece of trivial information makes Savage #11 in your book? It could be more successfully argued that the Alex Wright tier is where Jean Paul should have remained his entire career.

Number 6 isn't happening for Savage. Well then let's go #3 then. If you google 'best of' lists online from the world's most knowledgeable fans you will find some pretty amazing and comprehensive lists that all rank Savage top 10 and in at least half those cases top 6..There are actually quite a few lists where he's ranked number one. So at the end of the day, your dumb opinion is just an opinion. Don't get confused. Your opinion is not a fact. That's my opinion. We're all allowed to have them, and you're knowledge of inconsequential things doesn't make your opinion count any more than mine or the 99 percent of equally knowledgeable fans out there who disagree with you. And that's not name calling. That's just me addressing a really dumb, mostly unshared opinion. So get over it. You win nothing except Eddie Einhorn trivia.

Last edited by ilapierre : 02-16-2016 at 04:39 PM.
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  #82  
Old 02-16-2016, 05:29 PM
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BillAlfonsos_Whistle BillAlfonsos_Whistle is offline
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Cena instead of HHH and it's damn near perfect list.
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