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  #21  
Old 01-24-2016, 06:44 PM
J.J. J.J. is offline
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Originally Posted by Renaissanceman4life View Post
Actually, that is the whole point of this thread, for which I spared no little detail when I elaborated it so microscopically. It's in the title itself, "Kevin Owens could have already been more credible..." had he won the feud against Cena by winning the final match and/or the US title.
Him winning over John Cena in any capacity coming from NXT is a feat even guys that were already on the roster haven't accomplished. How often do heels straight up win? That set a tone for KO early regardless if he lost, he didn't lose credibility by not winning the title. Cena ultimately did more for that title last year than anybody has on the roster in years. KO wouldn't have.

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I refuse to believe that performers like Rusev and Bray Wyatt have any shot at winning against Lesnar. Because if they do, it'll be the most absurd thing the WWE ever did kayfabe-wise. Let's say Bray Wyatt beats Lesnar at WM, cleanly or otherwise. What does it say?
If ANYONE beats Brock it's an instant boost. Bray needs a big time win more than anybody right now because he has came up short. His last big win was against DBry at RR 2014. If Rusev is booked similar to how he was a while back he's a belivable challenger.

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and Bray Wyatt beats Lesnar? It just doesn't work that way. And even if you suspend disbelief and dispel logic, Bray Wyatt shouldn't beat Lesnar because Bray Wyatt's character wouldn't really benefit in the long run as he's doomed to be more of a side act, a circus freak, not the world champion people buy tickets to see.
Where do you pull this bs from?

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But Kevin Owens beating Lesnar is plausible because not only does he seem and act believably, as a big, tough, chubby guy who can also run his mouth pretty well but can also back it up, as he proved in his first match against Cena. Also, I see him more as a hybrid of a Punk/Bryan and Lesnar, in that with the former, he shares that exquisite independent wrestling background, interesting character, superb agility and dozens of cool holds/moves, and with the latter- that spark of legitimacy as a genuinely "big" and "strong" guy who can kick ass, and not be just another Snitsky, Heidenreich, Braun Strowman, Big Show, etc. All of that to me, IMO, constitutes a championship material, maineventer, and the best all-rounder the WWE could have since Punk era, and besides Seth Rollins(who isn't very big, I might add).
Now you're acknowledging his Cena win that you were writing off as not as credible because he didn't win gold.

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The point I have been trying so desperately to make is that he would've seemed even better and more credible, had he beaten John Cena in their 3rd match, thus instantly transcending the crop of mediocre wrestlers, surpassing people who just claim- the Bray Wyatts and Rusevs of the WWE- and becoming the real guy..the closest legitimate beast(albeit without a UFC/MMA background) the WWE could attain after Brock Lesnar.

You want WWE to build stars but it was wrong for KO to not go 2-1 over Cena because they were focusing on Reigns which you felt wasn't fair. But you'd want to hold down guys like Rusev, Ambrose and Wyatt to make a star out of KO? What a total contradiction.

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If records in FAKE wrestling(yes I know it's scripted) didn't matter, Brock Lesnar wouldn't even be where he is right now. His whole elevation in the past 2 years has happened solely after he beat Taker and ended the streak, followed by squashing John Cena and winning the WWE WHC. Hell, we wouldn't even be discussing it in this thread had Brock's "fake wrestling record" not existed...
Do pointed out HOW he won, that's what is more remembered. It's goes beyond wins and loses with Brock. It's how he won. He ended a legendary streak and beat Cena in dominant fashion. He beat Cena but look at how he beat him, that's why he's viewed as so dominant because nobody has seen Cena get manhandled like that and lose the way he did. Him beating Taker will stand out more that first match vs Taker getting revenge and Lesnar going 2-1 in the feud, more people will remember the shock value of the streak being broken.

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Pro-wrestling is fake and scripted, but yet records and wins matter...Rusev and Bray Wyatt are testimony to that.
To an extent, it depends on to who and what was at stake. Bryan lost clean to Bray Wyatt at RR 2014 but it did not hurt Bryan's monentum. It matters to an extent - depends againdt who. New Day often loses on Raw and SD but it hasn't killed their momentum. Kane lost majority of his matches last year but he was convincing enough to win with Undertaker.

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Please prove me wrong.
All I can take from this post and the original is you've got a man crush on KO and feels he should be next in line to get the big push from day 1.
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  #22  
Old 01-24-2016, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.J. View Post
Him winning over John Cena in any capacity coming from NXT is a feat even guys that were already on the roster haven't accomplished. How often do heels straight up win? That set a tone for KO early regardless if he lost, he didn't lose credibility by not winning the title. Cena ultimately did more for that title last year than anybody has on the roster in years. KO wouldn't have.
Yes I agree. It was a feat alright. And my point is losing the next two matches made him look like a chump. Hell, if they went with KO beating Cena clean in the first match in the first place, they should've had no problem with him winning THE FEUD, the last match, with or without the US title on the line. Period. I agree John did a lot for the US title but that's irrelevant here. KO could've been the "next big thing" somewhat similar to Brock in 2002, and for that he should've won the feud, apart from some sort of an "undefeated" streak. How hard is it for you to get that?

Just look at KO's current booking, he's losing to Kalisto and he just lost the last man standing match to Dean fucking Ambrose. That's your credible guy now alright..he's so credible against Brock now.


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Originally Posted by J.J. View Post
If ANYONE beats Brock it's an instant boost. Bray needs a big time win more than anybody right now because he has came up short. His last big win was against DBry at RR 2014. If Rusev is booked similar to how he was a while back he's a belivable challenger.
This is dumb. It may seem like an "instant boost" on the surface, it never is. Look at where it got The Miz when he "defeated" John Cena at WM 27. So no, Rusev and Bray Wyatt beating Brock Lesnar would be absurd, considering their track record. And their careers aren't even going to really benefit, since as I said, Bray Wyatt is a side show, a creep act, who doesn't need to be WWE WHC or beat Brock Lesnar and be the face of the WWE. More importantly, Bray Wyatt doesn't have "it". Kevin Owens does. ONLY AND ONLY KO does.


Quote:
Originally Posted by J.J. View Post
You want WWE to build stars but it was wrong for KO to not go 2-1 over Cena because they were focusing on Reigns which you felt wasn't fair. But you'd want to hold down guys like Rusev, Ambrose and Wyatt to make a star out of KO? What a total contradiction.
Like I said, neither of Rusev, Ambrose and Wyatt are credible or deserving enough to face and/or beat Brock Lesnar, especially at Wrestlemania. Dean is a mid-card talent at best, the guy in the jeans who pretends to be "crazy" without actual promise...he's a parody. Kevin Owens is the most deserving superstar on the roster. The thread is about HIM and not these other three chumps. And I'm fine with whatever their current roles are, but yes, may be they would've been (Wyatt and Rusev) doing better had they actually won feuds, like against Cena.


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Originally Posted by J.J. View Post
To an extent, it depends on to who and what was at stake. Bryan lost clean to Bray Wyatt at RR 2014 but it did not hurt Bryan's monentum. It matters to an extent - depends againdt who. New Day often loses on Raw and SD but it hasn't killed their momentum. Kane lost majority of his matches last year but he was convincing enough to win with Undertaker.
Bryan stuff I agree. It was still absurd the way they tried to bury/sabotage him by booking him with the whole Wyatt family thing. But then, there's a profusion of "dumb" and "absurd" when it comes to WWE creative/storylines in the last many years. My point of win-lose records mattering still holds, though. Anyone who denies it is a moron.

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Originally Posted by J.J. View Post
All I can take from this post and the original is you've got a man crush on KO and feels he should be next in line to get the big push from day 1.
Crush..it's an interesting word. If that's all you could "take", I can only blame your perception and character.

So if my defending my argument/thread/idea/vision rigorously equals my having a "crush", I suppose OYDK has a crush on KO too, since he clearly agreed with that vision. The person who green-repped me and said "One of the most logical and best posts I've seen on this site" has a crush too I suppose. May be they have a crush on me, who knows?

Last edited by RomanfreakinReigns : 01-24-2016 at 09:01 PM.
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  #23  
Old 01-24-2016, 10:11 PM
J.J. J.J. is offline
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Originally Posted by Renaissanceman4life View Post
Yes I agree. It was a feat alright. And my point is losing the next two matches made him look like a chump. Hell, if they went with KO beating Cena clean in the first match in the first place, they should've had no problem with him winning THE FEUD, the last match, with or without the US title on the line. Period. I agree John did a lot for the US title but that's irrelevant here. KO could've been the "next big thing" somewhat similar to Brock in 2002, and for that he should've won the feud, apart from some sort of an "undefeated" streak. How hard is it for you to get that?
Because he's not Brock Lesnar? He's not a WWE manufactured talent? How long have you been watching WWE, 2 years? You think any indie guy was going to come in and go over the company's top star in a feud? Obviously you don't get it.

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Just look at KO's current booking, he's losing to Kalisto and he just lost the last man standing match to Dean fucking Ambrose. That's your credible guy now alright..he's so credible against Brock now.
So what? He has accomplished more in 6 months on the roster than some guys that have in 2 years, yet you're complaining. Goes over Cena very first match, you're complaining. He had a good matchup against Reigns other week, you're complaining. Him and Ambrose arguably stole the show tonight, despite it looking good for both guys you're still complaining. You're not spewing logic, you sound obnoxious and I mean that respectfully.

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This is dumb. It may seem like an "instant boost" on the surface, it never is. Look at where it got The Miz when he "defeated" John Cena at WM 27. So no, Rusev and Bray Wyatt beating Brock Lesnar would be absurd, considering their track record.
Rusev and Bray Wyatt are better workers than The Miz, Wyatt is more charismatic than The Miz. I personally thought he had a decent title run, turning him face is what killed him. Anyone 'conquering' the beast at this point looks good rather you want to convince yourself otherwise.

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And their careers aren't even going to really benefit, since as I said, Bray Wyatt is a side show, a creep act, who doesn't need to be WWE WHC or beat Brock Lesnar and be the face of the WWE.
Who says they don't have it? You, because you dislike them? That's your logic? Vince actually praised Bray Wyatt and feels he's on a short list of guys that are the future. Go watch the Austin podcast if you don't believe me. Rather it's true or not is yet to be seen but I feel he'll be a main eventer. I've never viewed them as face of WWE but future main eventers to rival the face, sure.

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More importantly, Bray Wyatt doesn't have "it". Kevin Owens does. ONLY AND ONLY KO does.
Bray Wyatt has the most unique gimmick on the roster, but what do you define as "it"?

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Like I said, neither of Rusev, Ambrose and Wyatt are credible or deserving enough to face and/or beat Brock Lesnar, especially at Wrestlemania. Dean is a mid-card talent at best, the guy in the jeans who pretends to be "crazy" without actual promise...he's a parody. Kevin Owens is the most deserving superstar on the roster. The thread is about HIM and not these other three chumps. And I'm fine with whatever their current roles are, but yes, may be they would've been (Wyatt and Rusev) doing better had they actually won feuds, like against Cena.
You're going to have to come at me with logic; "Owens is better than them" bullshit. Ambrose is the most over face on the roster despite playing second fiddle to Reigns last year. Yeah he wrestles in jeans yet Owens wrestles in basketball shorts and a 4xl tshirt lmao. Rather you want to criticize Ambrose or not he's more over than Owens from a booking and fan standpoint and that's not even questionable. Wyatt is still over and very much involved putting the RR over, did you miss Raw on Monday?

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Crush..it's an interesting word. If that's all you could "take", I can only blame your perception and character.
I honestly couldn't see anything that would justify Owens needing to be booked like Lesnar was. If you've watched WWE over the years you'd see that WWE won't do anything like that unless it's one of their own.

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So if my defending my argument/thread/idea/vision rigorously equals my having a "crush", I suppose OYDK has a crush on KO too, since he clearly agreed with that vision. The person who green-repped me and said "One of the most logical and best posts I've seen on this site" has a crush too I suppose. May be they have a crush on me, who knows?
But your defense didn't possess not a shred of logic. You want Owens pushed because you're a fan and that's understanding. Who wouldn't want to see their favorite guy pushed? But then you're trying to defend it by saying silly things like "Ambrose should be or won't be more than a mid carder" when he's the second biggest face on the active roster isn't a logical defense, it's an asinine thing to say. Obviously he's more popular than Reigns but not a WHC yet.

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Bryan stuff I agree. It was still absurd the way they tried to bury/sabotage him by booking him with the whole Wyatt family thing. But then, there's a profusion of "dumb" and "absurd" when it comes to WWE creative/storylines in the last many years. My point of win-lose records mattering still holds, though. Anyone who denies it is a moron.
Yeah, shame on them for attempting to add depth to the storyline and wanting to push their own homegrown talent, yet still giving DBry the title at WM.
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  #24  
Old 01-24-2016, 11:04 PM
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Kevin Owens just had a pretty damn good Royal Rumble in terms of screen time. K.O had a lengthy hardcore last man standing with Ambrose to start the show, entered the Royal Rumble later in the night and eliminated A.J Styles, then established his on going feud with Sammy Zayn to end the night and possibly set up a Wrestlemania showdown with A.J or Zayn or both.
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  #25  
Old 01-24-2016, 11:40 PM
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Following Royal Rumble I think Kevin is going somewhere. I may not know exactly where yet, but he put on an amazing performance and that should mean something! His match with Dean was great plus the AJ Styles elimination. Also sounded like he was getting cheered pretty heavily.
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  #26  
Old 01-24-2016, 11:47 PM
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If the OP wasn't such a delusional fan or feel he should've been the next Brock Lesnar; he would see that KO isn't being mistreated and has been consistently involved in decent programs since he has been on the main roster. There's nothing wrong with the path that he's on. Even after the match tonight, he appears to have another program in line until the next PPV at least.
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  #27  
Old 01-25-2016, 01:43 AM
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I'm not mad when he went to midcard after losing to Cena, that was the right call. I'm surprised they had him lose to Ambrose for three straight PPVs. I figured they'd split the series at first and Owens goes on to win at RR but I guess with this loss it could lead to further character development for Owens, desperation. It's great to see he is passionate about the IC title, something we haven't seen in a while.
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  #28  
Old 01-25-2016, 03:06 AM
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I'm so tired of the Kevin Owens vs Brock complaining. Just stop. Kevin Owens got beat by Neville and Ambrose. You think he has a chance against Brock? cmon. Not only that but Brock tossed him around like a rag doll on Raw. Plus it's not even his first full year here. He needs time to build himself into a legit threat to Brock Lesnar...because it's not believable. I like Owens but people here are making me resent him with this crying. He's not very marketable either and that's the main thing. How does that match even sound? Not intriguing to me, let alone a casual fan. The story and feud/build would be boring. He's very overrated on the mic here too...he's good but damn. He's not Cm Punk type good like people make him out to be. I hate to turn this into a bash Owens post...again, but enough. He's improving, and while he's no spring chicken, he will get better with more time on the main roster. As much as I like him, I don't think he's got "it" the way guys like Cena, Punk, Bryan, Rollins, Orton, Brock, Undertaker, Jericho, HHH or even Reigns do. So I wouldn't really put him in a headlining position on a Mania card like I would any of those aformentioned guys. It doesn't mean I wouldn't have him against any of them (probably only Bryan, Jericho and Orton) but I wouldn't put him in a top selling main/co-main Mania match like I would those guys.

Last edited by Rocky84 : 01-25-2016 at 03:10 AM.
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