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  #31  
Old 01-14-2016, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by It's Damn Real! View Post
Hard to determine. We have no idea what TNA's finances look like, and we have no idea what Bryan is going to make, or would make. A common argument, affecting both these issues, is to assert that because of TNA's financially-related issues in the past, like late checks, that we know for certain there are certain performers "out of range". But we don't know this. It's silly to presume it. I mean, they apparently paid Hogan millions. They apparently pay Angle like a million. So who knows?

I think it's easier, and more pragmatic to disucss why he might go there (pay being one of the reasons). What if TNA was able to convince Angle to ride out his year off by promising him a match with DB at the end of it? One final send-off, just as Kurt wants.

In fact, you could adopt the UFC model of hyping the fuck out of it all year, like WWE did with Rock/Cena for Wrestlemania. Give Angle all the time off he wants now. Ditto Bryan, minus a few talking appearances to drive the hype up. Then ramp it up all year long. Sell, sell, sell. And at Bound For Glory, you've got your must-see TV moment ready to go. Neither man needs to perform much, if at all, between now and then.
My argument isn't that they couldn't pay Daniel Bryan, the company is owned by Panda Energy so that's not a good argument anyways, if they could pay Hogan whatever his price tag is then chances are they won't have much issue paying Bryan whatever he wants. With that said I do know business and just because you can pay to get Daniel Bryan doesn't mean you should. With that said it doesn't mean they shouldn't but if they do they better think a little harder about it than when they brought in guys like Jeff Hardy and Kurt Angle. When those guys came in TNA had already been on network TV for over a year (in Kurt's case at least), built a good relationship with Spike and were growing (albeit at a slow pace but growing nonetheless) so it made a lot of sense to bring in those top talents and see how far they can grow.

One thing is for certain right now though, their company isn't growing, it's regressing. They aren't making any noise and their North American audience is roughly a quarter of what it was only 2 years ago, that's a pretty significant drop considering that's their main base. Not only that they're on their 3rd network in just over a year, no matter how you shake it that does not paint a pretty picture for TNA at all. I may not know TNA's finances but it's a pretty safe guess that it's not as good as when Hardy and Angle came into town, I may not know what Daniel Bryan will make but it's a pretty safe guess that his price tag will be a lot more hefty than most of the roster given his popularity.

All in all I'm not saying Daniel Bryan shouldn't go there or that TNA shouldn't try and sign him but what I am saying is if they do they better have a solid, long term plan in place because if they don't then odds are this isn't going to work out well with them. TNA has a track record of squandering their opportunities and considering the company (at least from a fan's watching standpoint) isn't looking nearly as good as it did 3-4 years ago then I think it's a pretty safe guess that they have to be very smart with their money going forward. Just bringing in top talent like Daniel Bryan isn't going to help a damn thing at this point, they need to be smarter than they have been. Maybe they will be, I hope they will be but their past doesn't give me much hope.
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  #32  
Old 01-14-2016, 05:11 PM
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Im still very much of the opinion that TNA doesn't need to compete with WWE directly, outside of talent.
I always hear "competing for ratings" but that was only a thing when TNA tried to reignite the Monday Night Wars with 1/10th the viewerbase. TNA needs to just focus on producing the best product they can, Daniel Bryan would go a long way to meet that goal, even if they "misuse him" the Smarks would tune back in to see him compete at the very least and TNA gets more exposure.

And ya, The Injury Prone Argument, Stone Cold Steve Austin was more injury prone than Dbryan, imagine if WWE decided in 1996 to just let Steve Austin go because of his neck injury, DBry is nowhere as injury Prone as Randy Orton, and WWE let him run with the ball for years.
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  #33  
Old 01-14-2016, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by deanerandterry View Post
My argument isn't that they couldn't pay Daniel Bryan, the company is owned by Panda Energy so that's not a good argument anyways, if they could pay Hogan whatever his price tag is then chances are they won't have much issue paying Bryan whatever he wants. With that said I do know business and just because you can pay to get Daniel Bryan doesn't mean you should. With that said it doesn't mean they shouldn't but if they do they better think a little harder about it than when they brought in guys like Jeff Hardy and Kurt Angle. When those guys came in TNA had already been on network TV for over a year (in Kurt's case at least), built a good relationship with Spike and were growing (albeit at a slow pace but growing nonetheless) so it made a lot of sense to bring in those top talents and see how far they can grow.

One thing is for certain right now though, their company isn't growing, it's regressing. They aren't making any noise and their North American audience is roughly a quarter of what it was only 2 years ago, that's a pretty significant drop considering that's their main base. Not only that they're on their 3rd network in just over a year, no matter how you shake it that does not paint a pretty picture for TNA at all. I may not know TNA's finances but it's a pretty safe guess that it's not as good as when Hardy and Angle came into town, I may not know what Daniel Bryan will make but it's a pretty safe guess that his price tag will be a lot more hefty than most of the roster given his popularity.

All in all I'm not saying Daniel Bryan shouldn't go there or that TNA shouldn't try and sign him but what I am saying is if they do they better have a solid, long term plan in place because if they don't then odds are this isn't going to work out well with them. TNA has a track record of squandering their opportunities and considering the company (at least from a fan's watching standpoint) isn't looking nearly as good as it did 3-4 years ago then I think it's a pretty safe guess that they have to be very smart with their money going forward. Just bringing in top talent like Daniel Bryan isn't going to help a damn thing at this point, they need to be smarter than they have been. Maybe they will be, I hope they will be but their past doesn't give me much hope.
Right. I agree with all of this. This is a far better argument to make than to grab for the low-hanging fruit one that is “TNA can’t afford him”.

We haven’t a clue what they’re willing to pay, or not pay, for performers. We just know what we read, and we’ve read various figures on guys like Hogan and others. Sure, the times change, and when those guys were brought in they hadn’t scaled their product back. I completely understand all that. I just still refuse to go down that rabbit hole and accept it as a viable first step in conversations like this.

Unless I have some kind of demonstrable evidence to suggestion something one way or another regarding finances, I just steer clear of them.

I also agree completely with everyone saying that ROH and NJPW likely have the inside track over TNA if WWE does in fact release him at some point. I think, like Punk or others, he’d see going back to either as an opportunity to give back to the companies that made him. But money talks, so who knows?

Generally speaking, and I think you’d agree, it’s smart business for TNA to make offers at any real major free agent who they could pick up on to fast-track this rebuild. But it’s still a rebuild, and like in sports, that means short-term pain for long-term gain. It means having to develop those new stars over time. It took them more than a calendar year to get EC3 to where he is now. And that was with the gas pedal pushed pretty far down on him for most of that time frame, having him go over some pretty big names who were leaving (Sting and Bully Ray, among others). So fans will have to be patient. Whether they land a Daniel Bryan or not.
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  #34  
Old 01-14-2016, 09:23 PM
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Come guys, what`s the question? The question isn't "do you think TNA sucks?" it's, a true or false statement, they should offer everything to Bryan?

First of all, I'm a heavily lapsed TNA fan. Left at the start of the Hogan era. Of course they should make Bryan an offer. Yes, TNA should build new stars. Bryan is a piece of a puzzle. He's 34 or 35, and could theoretically wrestle for five to 10 years.

He's a guy with a passion for wrestling, not money. He is a wrestler. He's going to go wherever he's going to have the best matches, that's IF he leaves WWE. TNA, ROH, NJPW, my cousin Ted's backyard, he goes where the action is, not the money.

Everyone's opinion of TNA is irrelevant to the question whether or they should make him a big offer. There's no reason they shouldn't. He won't help them reach new heights, he probably won't help them draw much more than they do. He will however wrestle the crap out of some peeps and then that can be a foundation for future stars to build from.
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  #35  
Old 01-15-2016, 02:26 AM
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TNA would be the last place Bryan goes to... First off, TNA can't afford to "offer him the moon", especially compared to what he was making in WWE. He would make so much more money elsewhere. TNA is a company that's struggling to find a consistent TV deal, switching networks all the time is not a good sign. Daniel Bryan has so many option. He can literally work anywhere and TNA is not a big deal like it use to be, maybe if this was 2007-2008, he might go there, but not now.. Bryan would likely go to Japan or ROH, i don't see him working in Lucha Underground either.
Panda Energy has more money than WWE so they could easily afford Bryan.

Also I don't think Bryan would go to Japan after so many stars have left there. It has the feeling of a sinking ship.

Plus Bryan would need stop keep the momentum of the YES movement and I don't see the Japanese doing that. Let alone "mat wrestling heaven" ROH. TNA fans like the mainstream stuff, they'll adopt Bryan right away.
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  #36  
Old 01-15-2016, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by New Hot Fed View Post
Panda Energy has more money than WWE so they could easily afford Bryan.
Panda Energy has stopped funding TNA for over 2 years. They would not pay for Daniel Bryan. At all.
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Also I don't think Bryan would go to Japan after so many stars have left there. It has the feeling of a sinking ship.
According to who, exactly? NJPW is doing just fine without the guys they lost. You sure you know what you're talking ab- Ah, who am I kidding. You're clearly making shit up.

Quote:
Plus Bryan would need stop keep the momentum of the YES movement and I don't see the Japanese doing that. Let alone "mat wrestling heaven" ROH. TNA fans like the mainstream stuff, they'll adopt Bryan right away.
If Bryan were released and wanted to make a statement, he would not go to TNA. Because they have limited viewership, limited money and limited well everything. He would more than likely go somewhere with potential and more star power like CMLL, AAA or NJPW.
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  #37  
Old 01-16-2016, 03:52 AM
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Panda Energy has more money than WWE so they could easily afford Bryan.
For the 238,726th time on this board, allow me to dispel the misconception that Panda Energy is an unlimited source of funds which exists for the sole purpose of promoting a professional wrestling organization.

Panda Energy is a privately-held company specializing in the operation of environmentally-friendly power plants, primarily gas and hydroelectric plants. Being a privately-held company does not mean that it is owned solely by the Carter Family, but that it has less than 500 people with ownership interest and is not required to file with the SEC.

This group of less than 500 people may or may not have enough ownership share to control the decisions of Panda Energy; there may be a dominant faction, or a shifting-alliance system. As a private company, their internal ownership picture is fairly vague. What any owner of Panda Energy can do is invest their money elsewhere. What this means is that Panda Energy is required to act responsibly towards their co-owners. If they are operating a division that's reporting a regular loss, the people with controlling interest still have to explain that to the rest of their co-owners. If they cannot, those people will take their money, and place it in companies who they feel will earn a better return on their money. The result is a drastic scale-back of your business, as you now no longer have the access to funds you were using to maintain your current size. How many power plants would Panda Energy be willing to shut down so that they could throw stupid sums of money at professional wrestlers?

So no, TNA does not have a magical money pot that they can raid whenever a hot free agent comes into the market. Just like every other business in the world, they have to pay attention to P/R ratios, the value of initial investment vs. long term gain, switching costs, and all the other unsexy stuff involved in being a business, as opposed to somebody's fun toy.

Last edited by Rayne : 01-16-2016 at 03:55 AM.
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  #38  
Old 01-18-2016, 11:07 AM
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Let me preface this by saying I freaking love TNA and I would support any magic-wielding genie who could make TNA bigger than WWE. I don't have anything personally against WWE, but one can't escape the underlying sense of evil it embodies.

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Originally Posted by Azane View Post
Im still very much of the opinion that TNA doesn't need to compete with WWE directly, outside of talent.
I always hear "competing for ratings" but that was only a thing when TNA tried to reignite the Monday Night Wars with 1/10th the viewerbase.
Yes, they tried to compete with the biggest dog in the yard and got ass-shivved. Actually, I don't think ass-shivved is dramatic enough, but I'll leave it at that. I would probably attribute it to Hogan (a man whose delusions have delusions) and Easy E (a man whose go-to solution for any problem is to throw heaps of somebody else's money at it). The ghost of WCW is still very much with TNA, but there two were the unsalted bones keeping it awake.

If the Monday Night Wars v.10000000001 taught us anything, it's that you can never compete with WWE. Whether it's Tony Schavione, Vince Russo or Kevin Nash, something will always fuck you up royally. All the other bigger promotions have their very own niche, but it's still something TNA struggles a litle to get. On the other hand, with Destination America and Pop, TNA as a fed proved to be one tough sonofabitch.

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TNA needs to just focus on producing the best product they can, Daniel Bryan would go a long way to meet that goal, even if they "misuse him" the Smarks would tune back in to see him compete at the very least and TNA gets more exposure.
I do think that TNA is producing a very good product at the moment and with Russo finally gone (and hopefully fucking ritually sacrificed to the Inca god of optimistic calender-making), Impact is going to be more about stories, wrestling and new beginnings and much less about showing up WWE. I used to be in denial about it, but AJ's departure, EY's first title run and various other stories were blatant rip-offs. TNA doesn't need that, they have very distinct stars of their own (Storm, Roode, EY, etc) who give TNA its unique flavour, as well as a team of extremely talented younger guys who would do well to do things differently than they did in the WWE and be more Impacty versions of themselves (EC3, Galloway, Tyrus).

With regards to Daniel Bryan, I wouldn't offer him the moon if I were TNA. Going after established stars and paying them up the whazoo is what got TNA in trouble in the first place. Yes, Bryan is a big star in the wrestling business, but the same business is absolutely not what is was twenty years ago. The average slackjaw on the street is not going to suddenly hear about this guy called Brian Daniels who is at TNA from WWE. Mainstream popularity is not an extremely realistic goal here. Not to mention that the internet fans won't be satisfied with anything less than Ultimate Warrior levels of pushing everybody's favourite underdog, which kind of defeats the purpose of having a scruffy overcomer like DBry in the first place.

I doubt EC3 or Galloway came with the same price tag a guy like Bryan would probably come, but you'd also get at least triple the name value (not knocking on Drew or Bateman). The question would be if that 2x, 3x or (dare I say) 4x name value would translate in that big a ratings spike.

Then there's the question of his long absence. It did, indeed, make the heart grow fonder. DB was at his absolute peak main-eventing WM 30 before getting struck by injury. WM31 was cool too, but the real question remains - what would Vince be able to do with Bryan once the initial high of Wrestlemania was over? Bryan remains untested as a face of the WWE. The man may look like Blonde Jesus, but it's still not 100% sure whether or not he would be able to carry TNA.

For Bryan, one big advantage would be a break from WWE's cruel schedule. Hey, if the neck and shoulders are good to go, DB is relatively young and extremely fit, so he'd be able to go at it and make that WWE-money. If there's a nagging niggle or if he's in doubt that he'd be able to go full-time, the lighter load did wonders for a former liability like Jeff Hardy and made it possible for a soon-to-be for-real cyborg like Kurt Angle to still be seen on an international stage, despite age and injuries.

With regards to RoH and NJPW, I don't think ego should be a factor (as hard as that is). Don't sign Bryan on a bloated contract just so those guys can't have him, then do fuck-all with him, make him miserable and jump ship anyway for half the price (which is also what WCW did). It's not about having the second biggest dick in the room anymore, it's about survival. Do what you can with what you have or can acquire at a bargain.
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  #39  
Old 01-23-2016, 01:43 AM
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If I was in charge of TNA I wouldn't offer him the moon. I'd offer him a decent contract and spend the rest on marketing and promoting the product with him at its helm.

Now imagine this hypothetical situation. Bryan gets released & Punk gets destroyed in the UFC and is let go? If TNA doesn't go all out to get them I can imagine ROH getting them and then where does that take ROH in terms of exposure?
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