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  #41  
Old 09-28-2015, 03:35 PM
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Aquaman6686 Aquaman6686 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brockie Maivia View Post
Why was HHH the right guy to do it?

We'd just had the perfect build with Th Rock promising to win the rumble and doing it by lastly eliminating the Big Show only to then be screwed at NWO. Then we get The Rock inserted back in to the match only to be screwed by the guy who was meant to be in his corner. It was stupid overbooking.

If they wanted Vince to still screw The Rock then the best way to do it would have been to have him turn only for Austin to come out (as he did at Backlash) and make the save.
Triple H was the right guy to do it because he was the #1 heel of the Attitude Era and beyond. Babyfaces coming out on top all the time at WrestleMania is one of WWE's biggest weaknesses. Heel champions were consistently losing at WrestleMania, every single year. It was predictable and boring. Triple H winning the match, after overcoming two of WWE's top babyfaces as well as Big Show, gave him an amazing WrestleMania moment, despite being tainted by Vince's interference. Since then, heels have occasionally been able to win WrestleMania main event matches, making the event much more interesting. There was no reason for Triple H not to retain at WrestleMania 16.
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  #42  
Old 09-28-2015, 05:52 PM
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therockiswwf therockiswwf is offline
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Originally Posted by Aquaman6686 View Post
Triple H was the right guy to do it because he was the #1 heel of the Attitude Era and beyond. Babyfaces coming out on top all the time at WrestleMania is one of WWE's biggest weaknesses. Heel champions were consistently losing at WrestleMania, every single year. It was predictable and boring. Triple H winning the match, after overcoming two of WWE's top babyfaces as well as Big Show, gave him an amazing WrestleMania moment, despite being tainted by Vince's interference. Since then, heels have occasionally been able to win WrestleMania main event matches, making the event much more interesting. There was no reason for Triple H not to retain at WrestleMania 16.
Actually the reason HHH retained was so they could get another big match for Backlash. I think Foley said this in his book. Vince thought that the multi-man match would draw and then they could do one-on-one match for the title next month and get more buys.

Heels are built to be stopped. Wrestling is very simple, the good guy always wins in the end. A heel winning all the time and a face always losing makes the face look really bad. Heels can absorb losing big matches while faces have a much tougher time absorbing failure.

Ryback is a perfect example. He was white hot against CM Punk and The Shield. He continually kept losing to them and it killed his momentum.

It is one of the biggest problems TNA had in the past. A heel would dominate for so long that when he finally did get beat, people had already lost interest (Roode vs Storm, that feud killed Storm).
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  #43  
Old 09-28-2015, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by therockiswwf View Post
Actually the reason HHH retained was so they could get another big match for Backlash. I think Foley said this in his book. Vince thought that the multi-man match would draw and then they could do one-on-one match for the title next month and get more buys.

Heels are built to be stopped. Wrestling is very simple, the good guy always wins in the end. A heel winning all the time and a face always losing makes the face look really bad. Heels can absorb losing big matches while faces have a much tougher time absorbing failure.

Ryback is a perfect example. He was white hot against CM Punk and The Shield. He continually kept losing to them and it killed his momentum.

It is one of the biggest problems TNA had in the past. A heel would dominate for so long that when he finally did get beat, people had already lost interest (Roode vs Storm, that feud killed Storm).
Ryback's winning streak itself is why he became irrelevant. One of WWE's most idiotic tendencies is giving people winning streaks that go on way too long. Ryback was billed as unbeatable. The INSTANT he lose, he became irrelevant. Nobody cared about him anymore. The exact same thing happened to Rusev. As soon as he lost, he was meaningless, and it's because he never lost before.

WWE's overreliance on unbeatable babyfaces is their greatest weakness. You said "wrestling is very simple, the good guy always wins in the end". Wrong. WWE is always that simple, and it's their weakness. Heels need to win more, and faces need to lose more. That's what WCW had so right and WWE had so wrong. Then WCW made the mistake of trying to copy what WWE was doing, and it destroyed their company. WWE needs to build more strong heels.
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  #44  
Old 09-28-2015, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Aquaman6686 View Post
Ryback's winning streak itself is why he became irrelevant. One of WWE's most idiotic tendencies is giving people winning streaks that go on way too long. Ryback was billed as unbeatable. The INSTANT he lose, he became irrelevant. Nobody cared about him anymore. The exact same thing happened to Rusev. As soon as he lost, he was meaningless, and it's because he never lost before.

WWE's overreliance on unbeatable babyfaces is their greatest weakness. You said "wrestling is very simple, the good guy always wins in the end". Wrong. WWE is always that simple, and it's their weakness. Heels need to win more, and faces need to lose more. That's what WCW had so right and WWE had so wrong. Then WCW made the mistake of trying to copy what WWE was doing, and it destroyed their company. WWE needs to build more strong heels.
Ryback did not become irrelevant the moment he lost, he became irrelevant because he couldn't beat Punk and couldn't overcome The Shield. He faced them both multiple times and always lost. People won't stay behind a guy who continually fails. Ryback continually failed and that just killed him.

Rusev is in the midcard, which is where he should be. Rusev has always been in the midcard. Him losing changed nothing.

Hogan dominating for so long worked because everyone knew it was building to Sting taking them down. Then when they finally got to the event, Sting won but got his ass kicked (and technically lost). Anyways, people wanted to see Sting defeat the NWO and Hogan. Hogan was built up to lose.
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  #45  
Old 09-28-2015, 08:54 PM
LBGetBack LBGetBack is offline
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Originally Posted by EastCoastFan View Post
We were never slated for a Savage-Steamboat rematch at WM 4. The original plan for WM 4 was for Savage to win the I-C title from the Honky Tonk Man, but Honky refused to drop the title (he was negotiating to go to WCW, and felt having the title increased his bargaining position), so to keep Savage happy, they had him win the World title tournament instead of their original choice, Ted DiBiase.

A better example of robbing fans of what they wanted to see would be WrestleMania 7. With the show slated to take place at the LA Coliseum, fans expected the main event to be a rematch of Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior from WM 6, and that was the plan at one point. In January 1991, with Desert Storm going on, Vince decided instead to have Sgt. Slaughter (who was now playing an Iraqi sympathizer) beat Warrior for the title. Immediately afterwards, ticket demand for WM 7 plummeted to almost nil. The LA Coliseum could hold 100,000 people (keep in mind, there was no stage at shows back then), but they had only sold 20,000 tickets. Because of that, for "security reasons", the show had to be moved to the LA Forum.

Another one would be WrestleMania 8. The main event was supposed to be Ric Flair vs. Hulk Hogan for the WWF title, a match-up fans had been dreaming about for years. For whatever reason, they changed it to Hogan vs. Sid, and Flair defending the title against Randy Savage. Some say the reason for the change was because the WWF did Hogan vs. Flair at all the house shows that winter, killing the "once in a lifetime" vibe a WM match between the two would have had. Others have said it was because Hogan announced he would retire at WM 8, and Vince didn't want to let him go out as champion.
????

Greg Valentine beat Ricky Steamboat in the WM4 tournament, and advanced on to face Randy Savage.

It would've been an easy enough decision to have Steamboat win the match and face Savage in the 2nd round. What's the difference? Savage was winning anyway......so why not give the fans the better match and the rematch?
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  #46  
Old 09-29-2015, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by LBGetBack View Post

It would've been an easy enough decision to have Steamboat win the match and face Savage in the 2nd round. What's the difference? Savage was winning anyway......so why not give the fans the better match and the rematch?
Steamboat and Savage were both babyfaces in an era where it was exceptionally rare for 2 babyfaces to face each other.
That entire WM4 tournament had a babyface vs heel every match... its just the way things were done in those days.
Plus squeezing so many tournament matches on a single card would rapidly reduce the match time in many given cases.

Don't get me wrong- it would have been awesome having a Savage-Steamboat rematch... just stating why the booker (or Mr Patterson) might not have considered it.
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  #47  
Old 09-30-2015, 05:36 PM
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Steamboat and Savage were both babyfaces in an era where it was exceptionally rare for 2 babyfaces to face each other.
That entire WM4 tournament had a babyface vs heel every match... its just the way things were done in those days.
Plus squeezing so many tournament matches on a single card would rapidly reduce the match time in many given cases.
That basically are the reasons to not book a Savage-Steamboat rematch. Also they wanted Savage beating 4 heels in a row in order to conquer the world championship glory. Steamboat wasn't a heel so he had to lose against a heel sooner or later.
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