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View Poll Results: Who's the greatest Canadian Wrestler in WWE history?
Bret Hart 27 67.50%
Edge 1 2.50%
Chris Jericho 6 15.00%
Christian 0 0%
Owen Hart 2 5.00%
Chris Benoit 1 2.50%
Lance Storm 0 0%
other 3 7.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 09-21-2015, 06:55 PM
MrMojoRisin MrMojoRisin is offline
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Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
First off... you're the one showing ignorance my friend, not reading points completely... I made CLEAR reference to the fact that Whipper and Bronko held the ORIGINAL World title... not the title that was held by later guys... it is not the same situation - they held a SHOOT title... others since have held a pure worked title. They worked in an early era BEFORE the one we are discussing - it is not right, sane or acceptable to compare them in the same way you can't put a UFC guy allowed to shoot against a wrestler who isn't in the same match... If I only understood the "modern era" I wouldn't know that... and you conveniently ignore that point to score a cheap point you think you won!

Someone like Kowalski... on balance he maybe influenced a couple of heels himself over the years, but again he didn't make it count on the worldwide stage... how many people today only know who he is cos he trained Trips? He's the guy a lot of guys since went back and watched, rather than the originator like Patterson was.

As to your point on Vachon, as respected as he may be, he was NOT of the level required to be among the greats - he was of a similar level to Piper, in that he could be a heat magnet and a guy you could put into the odd main event feud but he was not the guy you hung your company on or who got WORLDWIDE plaudits, he was your Semi Final monster. It's also very easy to run a territory and book yourself as such, occasionally venturing into America for paydays...

Someone like Edge or Jericho both played heel equally well or better at points and did MORE globally with it... like I said if you want a Vachon in the conversation it is Vivian who really DID make an impact... they made a movie about her after all... I notice you ignored that point.

Pat as winner is not about him winning or not winning a World title... it is about the overall impact and influence on the business of professional wrestling and those in it since his heyday. Bret, Jericho and Edge all had more money, more draw and more storied careers in terms of achievements and titles... but they didn't get to the races without a Pat Patterson going before them and going to bat for them. WWE didn't "do" the kind of blood feuds until Patterson and Slaughter... they even botched Bruno v Zybysko... it was Pat who brought that knowledge to the company and for all the cartoon side of things VKM brought when he took over, it was Pat who helped make it compelling TV and shows, who put those finishes and angles together.... and even got the highest segment in the Attitude era at the time as a stooge... Patterson KNOWS wrestling far better than you or I do....and those we grew up watching grew up watching him!

My points are all valid - guys like Curt Hennig, Rick Rude, Bret Hart, Piper all took their heel cues from Pat Patterson. In the ring he was the definitive (French) Canadian worker in the US for a long time and parlayed that into being the booking brains behind the vast majority of the era that got the WWF to where it did... and those aforementioned talents to their peak... Vince didn't book it, Pat did...

It's easy to put the Beatles and Stones as #1 and #2 and argue forever... reality is it's really Chuck Berry who deserves the spot cos neither exist without his influence... Whipper Watson would be a Glenn Miller in that equation... for a time the top but once the fashion changed it was gone forever...
You might want to take back your claim that I'M the one showing ignorance here.

Professional wrestling stopped being a 'shoot' probably around the 1920's, before Billy Watson was even a teenager. There's no real exact date, but I suggest you watch the Unreal Story of Professional Wrestling. A fantastic documentary that chronicles wrestling's history from it's beginnings straight up to present day when it was produced (late 90's).

So Whipper Billy Watson never won a 'shoot' title, and what he did was no different than what every single wrestler you've ever watched did. It was just during a different time.

Besides, do you understand why I even said anything to you about Watson or Vachon? I won't argue their place among the greats to you here, because it's not the topic for it, and you seem pretty indocterned into the whole present day global company as opposed to the completely different business structure that those you don't consider to be greats worked in. But that's not what we were talking about.

You characterized both as guys who were just good enough to be employable, and lauded guys like Kurgan and Lance Storm as having had better careers than them. THAT my friend, is pure ignorance. Storm was exactly what you said they were. Someone good enough to be employable, but nothing more. Kurgan? The guy was the drizzling shits.

Your points on Patterson still don't change though. He was a great booker. A great wrestling mind. A great teacher. But everything that you're saying makes him the greatest Canadian WRESTLER, are all of his contributions outside of the ring.

Scotty Bowman is arguably the greatest coach in NHL history. He wasn't a great hockey player though. Pat Patterson was a good wrestler. But if he stopped once he hung up the boots, no one on a board like this would even remember him today.

In fact, here's a test in that regard. His partner was a better wrestler, but he did stop once he hung up his boots. How many people here do you think even know who I'm talking about? Or know much about him even if they do?
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  #22  
Old 09-22-2015, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
DAVEY WAS JUST AS OVER!!! In both the US AND Europe in 1991/1992 - to the point where he was used alongside Hogan and Warrior as one of the 3 playable characters on the computer game that came out and was regularly featured on merch alongside those two and Savage.

Bret was popular no doubt, but had Davey not been sucked into the Warrior scandal in 1992, it would probably have been he to took the World title and he and Bret headline Mania 9...

Bret's popularity in other countries helped but Davey was equal before he was fired... he lost that momentum after so never quite got over again to the same level but the sheer number of runs he got proves Vince saw money in him and he drew.
Now I'm English and obviously a Davey fan... though he wouldn't have been Vinces pick to build the company around had he stayed in 1992.
I recall Davey frequently being ranked in the lower top 10 by all the magazines circa 1991-92 (aside from his IC title run)... which is about right... an upper midcarder who feuded (and usually got the upper hand) with other midcadrers. However he never got a sniff at a heel Flairs world title and came up short in a fued with Curt Hening in 1991.
His thick Lancashire accent was a deterrent- people might knock Brets mic skills but he was much better than Davey. I honestly think his sub-par mic skills would have held him back if the American audience struggled with it.

Daveys chance with the world title (which I still think is a shame he didn't win) would have more likely come in 1996-96 with his heel run. With a weakish roster at the time Davey was able to crack into that main event bracket for a good year, challenging Bret, Shawn and Diesels world titles.
However when the PPV numbers didn't add up he was thrown into the tag team divisions with Owen.
Now Davey is certainly HOF worthy, and he's better than half the guys in there... but I think Bret was the better choice to go with.
With the steroid scandal about to hit... had he not been busted- his physique would have also likely shrunk (not a bad thing really as the 245 pound Davey of the 1980s was very agile).

Quote:
Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
As to the topic,

Backstage the guy has been responsible for more history than you can even imagine... more finishes in the classic era, booking of matches, hirings made and yes, some controversy that many would prefer to forget in the early 1990's.

Bret is good, he knows he is - but he also knows 90% of what got him over in WWE was down to Pat Patterson's mind - he could and did toil for years until Pat took over from George Scott as Vince's #2... the guys that were putting him over in the ring learned their heel mojo from watching Pat Patterson or having worked with him....

So Pat emerges victorious as the greatest EVER Canadian wrestler...
Pat has a good in ring career and has a brilliant mind for the business... however his backstage influence, booking and creativity make him the greatest backstage Canadian advisor ever.
Bret Hart made a much bigger stamp on the business (wait for it)... as a wrestler.
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  #23  
Old 09-22-2015, 08:17 AM
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It's Bret, It has to be Bret. I'm not going to go all the way back and talk about guys that I don't know a thing about but of any Canadian wrestler who was on top from the 80s and onward, Bret is really the only guy that had a major promotion centered around him.

Piper was great, as was Edge and Jericho, but Bret is on that top tier of stars with guys like Hogan, Flair, Shawn, Austin, Rock, Brock and Cena. Guys who at different times were the focal point of a major organization.
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