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  #11  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ShatteredDreamsProduction View Post


I'm sure you just called teddy long "eye candy" somewhere in that.
Teddy sure is easy on the eye with his flabby bald head and manly moustache...

In all seriousness i can see why you read it like that but i meant in a role similar to what teddy long does now, as a personal aid or assistant to someone.

Paige is 20 years old, she's 21 this year sometime. Now i dont know if the WWE's policy has changed but lets not forget Rene Dupree made his debut when he was 19 back in 2003.


Quote:
My thought is they dont really care too much and if they would care they would keep Beth Phoenix, Kharma, Melina or even Maryse and Michelle Mccool and most recently Eve. All they tried to build over the course of years either released or left and no wonder that the Divas Division is at such poor shape. Raquel Diaz(daughter od Eddie and Vickie Guerrero) had potential and she personally requested to be released.
Melina was nothing special and apparently caused trouble backstage. No matter how good someone is, if you bitch and moan backstage you go nowhere.

Maryse was never there long term. Be honest none of the models that come in are. Thats the problem WWE has. Even Trish Stratus. They use WWE to launch their own careers and get their name out there. Thats all.

Kharma (apparently) ballooned extremely and was very out of shape, and the WWE released her in the hope she could get back in shape and sort herself back out. Sad really but it does happen a fair bit when women lose their children.

Raquel Diaz will be back sometime according to reports. Apparently she was just burned out with the constant training over the past 2 years and needs a rest. But thats if you trust WZ and other sites like it.
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:00 AM
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I'm with those that call for it to be scrapped. It was bad for a long time, and now it's just superfluous. The matches don't serve anyone well, the ladies have nothing to work with storyline-wise, and the one Diva that's over, AJ, is more a valet than a wrestler anyway.

WWE needs to scorch the Earth and start over. AJ Lee is the only certified keeper in the bunch, for my money. Aksana, Rosa, Cameron and Layla are great for filling out the months on the Divas calendar, but none of them garners any kind of a reaction above the waist. Tamina, Alicia, Naomi, and especially Natalya are athletic and would be fine contenders in a real women's division, but are poorly utilized.

I'd hate to once again be accused of having an opinion on a talent before they can show off all of their amazing skills, but I've never thought much of Kaitlyn. She's got a pretty face, but her build is stumpy and boxy. Her in-ring skills are passable, but that's about it. Whatever charisma she has must not translate through the television. If she gets over to remotely the degree that Eve or Kelly were then I'll be impressed.

The NXT girls should be held where they're at while WWE fixes the Divas mess, otherwise they'll just be the latest in the revolving door of interchangeable faces and one-word names.
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  #13  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:42 AM
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I have never had the extreme displeasure of reading the opinion of so many sheep. The majority of you are hardly agreeing with one another, your just echoing the same exact thing someone else just said instead of forming your own opinions.

I'm 100% sure Naomi, AJ, Layla, and Paige could out wrestle the majority of you trolls acting like Einsteins behind your desktops.

Anywho, the division needs two things, effort and direction. In case you creative geniuses haven't noticed, the E has been putting a lot more effort into the division. The problem is, there's still no direction. In 2013 the E needs to continue to put in more effort, longer matches and storylines, but there also needs to be a general direction for the division as well.

There's no good reason why AJ can't be the crazy girlfriend as well as a wrestler. I say have her and Kaitlyn start up a feud for the title. Maybe Kaitlyn brings up that her and Dolph aren't exactly strangers, and wala magic ! They feud leading to AJ winning of course. Kaitlyn is okay, and I was happy she won the title, but AJ's obviously the "it" diva right now with her amount of exposure and crowd reaction. Having her hold the title for a while could only lead to good things for her and the division.

Now for the main roster :
Obviously AJ as Champion
Layla
Kaitlyn
For dear heavens let Naomi wrestle, maybe a feud can break out between her and Cameron, gasp ! That means there could be two feuds in the division at once !
A.Fox
Naomi
Paige

Last edited by PunkFan325 : 01-27-2013 at 11:07 AM.
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  #14  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Saeros View Post
Melina was nothing special and apparently caused trouble backstage. No matter how good someone is, if you bitch and moan backstage you go nowhere.
I'd rather watch Melina than 90% of the current roster, males included. She actually had personality and charisma and that was so refreshing for the women's division.

As for the current division, I haven't been paying much attention since Beth left but first they need to stop treating Natalya like garbage. It's getting to the point where I'm hoping she just leaves like Victoria did when was getting on TV once every 3 months or so.

I am not a fan of AJ Lee's character, it is a watered down, yet overexposed version of Mickie James imo. For me to stop fast forwarding her segments/matches would require a complete character overhaul but I seem to be in the minority here, so whatever. I think she is talented but I cannot sit through the gimmick they gave her. I will say at least they are putting some effort in her character.

I don't want them to get rid of the women's division. I wish they would start hiring women with charisma. The stereotype that all women wrestlers kill the crowd is there because they aren't even looking for women with personality/mic skills/charisma. At least that is the impression I get. If in 2013 they start hiring women who have even the smallest idea on how to make people care about them, I will be happy.
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:34 AM
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I think the Divas division is a huge mess at the moment and putting the title on Kaitlyn makes it worse. Every divas Championship match that Kaitlyn will wrestle will be bad, she's too green. What's worse, she gets a wimpy reaction from the crowd, her ring gear looks like ODB's leftovers, and her mic skills are nonexistent.

AJ's the strongest diva, she should be holding the title. Let Tamina job to Kaitlyn in a forgettable Rumble match, then build to a Kaitlyn vs. AJ title match at Elimination Chamber. With the title back on AJ, start to overhaul the Divas division around her. I'd start bringing in new Divas immediately because the few they have aren't very good.
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  #16  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:35 AM
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I'm with the few who have said to scrap the division. There's nothing captivating about it right now. It's not even a shadow of what it was when you had Lita, Trish, Chyna, and others putting on good matches.

As I stated in the Royal Rumble Diva's match thread the major issue with women's wrestling these days is the girls let their success go to their head and they're out the door as soon as they can go... As if another example was needed: Eve Torres just left to do her bit on the Gracie Breakdown. How selfish.

WWE spent a lot of time developing her character, especially during the Big Johnny segments. She got over a little bit, became a bit of a household name and then bailed.

If I was the WWE I would scrap the entire division and focus more on making women valets again. That doesn't mean don't keep them training with Sara Del Ray. You can still put on the occasional divas match... but there's no reason for there to be titles involved when there's hardly any talent worth showcasing for the belt. And you can always bring it back once you have enough women that can actually work solid matches.
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  #17  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:43 PM
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I Recall just before Beth Phoenix left, they finally had a televised match between her and Natalya. It was quite good, and the audience was into the match. This is the type of thing the Diva's division needs to be based around. There is female talent, both on the current roster, in NXT and in in the indies. But until the female athletes are allowed to develop personalities, cut promos, and have real meaningful exciting feuds, they majority of the fans will continue to see them as filler. This is not the fault of the women, it is the fault of the WWE. They put next to nothing into the womens division, so how can they expect to get anything out of it? They have trained the audience not to care so they don't. Even the announcers tend to veer off on other topics when there is Diva match on TV. I Give JBL a lot of credit as he really seems to try to get them over, but the when Cole and Lawler are off on some tangent, he is fighting a losing battle. Lots of people have mentioned how many of the Women leave during their time at the top, and that is true, but perhaps its because even whey they are given the top slot, they are disappointed in how the E handles things. So maybe they leave because they are frustrated. Just a thought.... I really hope that can focus on what they want the division to be, hopefully a wrestling one, and work hard towards that. If one of the women got as much air time and promo time as Cena, think of how over she could be... but they never give anyone the chance.
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  #18  
Old 01-28-2013, 12:12 AM
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My solution would be to take the most popular and charimastic diva in WWE, and build the division around her.

Who I am talking about is-AJ Lee!

Look, AJ has personality, the crowds, and those on the internet, love her, and she has all the tools to carry the division.

WWE never seem to have AJ wrestle, so I can't really determine her ringwork, but, from what I have seen, it is pretty good. Besides, people like Kelly Kelly were given the ball, so AJ could, and do a better job of it.

But, you say, what about her crazy chick persona? Glad you asked. AJ reminds a bit of someone else who played a crazy chick, was charimastic, popular with the crowd, and changed her character to become a believable Divas champion. AJ reminds me a lot of Mickie James.

James played Trish's "crazy" stalker, but when Trish retired, Mickie was given the belt, and carried the division with credibility. AJ might the most over diva since Mickie James, or before her in Trish or Lita.

AJ should dump the crazy chick gimmick (and dump Ziggler at the same time), have regular matches, climb the ladder, and then win the WWE Divas Title, and hold it for months, while fighting off challengers. I think she would still be popular, she could still cut promos, putting her a cut above most divas, and make people care about the Divas division again. The WWE is sitting on gold with AJ, but her time in backstage promos, and going from one relationship to the next may need to end, for the sake of keeping the Divas relevant.

Now, many of you will say that she is doing great things with Dolph Ziggler. But, AJ has played this character many times before, and she needs to do something new. Besides, if Ziggler is the future champion you all predict him to be, then he needs to stand on his own two feet, and show that he can cut promos on his own, and not have a mouthpiece. While he has that crutch, he will never grow. Let's see if Ziggler can cut a decent promo regularly, and see if he is worth all the hype (since you all hated on John Morrison and Shelton Benjamin, who are just as talented as Ziggler wrestling-wise, for their lack of stickwork).

Breaking them up would show us if AJ can be the new drving force in the Divas Division, and if Dolph Ziggler is a maestro on the mike, and deserving of the over-the-top hype he gets! But you people don't want this to happen, because you would love to see the Divas' Division die, and you don't want Dolph to have to cut promos, in case he is exposed as having average stickwork.

But, don't worry, it won't happen anyway. WWE don't think outside the box, but instead will just keep doing what they are doing. Vince doesn't care about divas (at least, not about their wrestling), so he let it die, and AJ and Dolph will continue to be together, placing them in the little box that WWE want to put them in.
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  #19  
Old 01-28-2013, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WrestlingSabermetrics View Post
I hate to say it, but I think scraping the Divas Division is probably the best thing to do. Does anyone know where I can find first and second hour ratings for Raw for the past few months? I would change my opinion if the division actually contributed to boosting ratings.

There was actually a well done study in 2007 out of Yale which I'll look for that found that "sexiness" in women in commercials and in broadcast actually took away from product sales and tv ratings because people forgot what was being sold and what news was being discussed. It was all over the media for about a week and was very fascinating. I wouldn't be shocked (actually it's probably likely) if the Divas Division started to take off if they didn't make it a beauty pageant. I think women like Kelly Kelly and Maryse leaving the company was actually a good thing (I think Vince knew this as well). I think women like Natalya and Beth Phoenix (who is unfortunately gone) are best for the division. I like A.J. as well because she's got a lot of charisma in the ring as well as the looks (which are more of a bonus than anything), so for now I'd do an A.J.-Natalya angle.
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On your point on sexiness, I actually found Trish Stratus tremendously sexy (yes, I wanted some Stratusfaction), but when she wrestled in the ring, her looks didn't distract me from noticing that she is also the most talented Diva to ever lace a WWE boot.

Also, some guys found Lita sexy, but Lita's Litacarana and Litasault were sights to behold.

So, you can have both, and one doesn't need to detract from the other.
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  #20  
Old 01-28-2013, 02:55 AM
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First off, it's too easy to simply say "Bring Diva X back," so one rule I'm making here is I'm only working with what I have in WWE and NXT.

Second, one important thing to remember is, the division isn't gonna get any better if you're only giving them 2 minutes every week or so. What I would propose is replacing the "Superstars" online show with an all-divas show. It's not like they have to worry about ratings and it would give the women a chance to become better workers, by working longer matches. Nothing that happens currently on Superstars is ever mentioned on RAW, SD, etc anyway, so I don't see any issue in just making it a show for the women to actually work. Having them work 5-10 minute matches on house shows probably wouldn't hurt, either. Regardless, the first thing to improving the divas division is to give it more time than the one-off matches that last 2-3 minutes.

Another thing that really bothers me about the divas is the fact that a good amount of them don't even have last names. Why do they not refer to Natalya as "Natalya Neidhart"? They mention that she's Neidhart's daughter... Why not use her last name? They finally started doing it for Tamina Snuka, after a long time of just calling her Tamina. It's a small complaint, but I think it's a valid one.

As for the actual workers, here's what I would do:

AJ - I like the role she is in, but should wrestle more. A feud with Kaitlyn should be a natural. I see no reason why she can't wrestle on top of being with Ziggler.

Aksana - Either send her back to NXT to work on her wrestling or release her. Unfortunately, with her accent, it's sometimes tough to understand what she's saying. If you're not good on the mic, you better be good in the ring. Aksana is neither.

Alicia Fox - Decide what you wanna do with her and do it. No more face/heel turns weekly. Personally, I'd keep her as a face.

Kaitlyn - As the Champion, she needs to be on the shows in some way, shape or form. While I personally think that there should be at least one Divas match on both RAW and Smackdown, I realize that probably isn't gonna happen, which is another reason to make Superstars an all-Divas show. If she's not wrestling, she (or whoever the Champ is at the time) can be at ringside commentating, or as a special referee. Make the champion visible, since the champion is your #1 representative.

Tamina - She's my "Monster" heel. I'd have her squash the other Divas on a weekly basis in pursuit of Kaitlyn. No reason why multiple women can't be chasing the belt at the same time.

Natalya - I have no idea why they have her with Hornswoggle and Khali, nor do I have any idea why they have had her do all of the stuff that she has been doing in the past year. I kill two birds with one stone here and align her with a guy that's been a face in NXT recently, Michael McGillicutty. Have McGillicutty drop the name, use Joe Hennig and put the Neidhart back on Natalya. You'd be pairing 2 3rd generation wrestlers together that both are very good at technical wrestling. You could even throw in a 3rd 3G wrestler, Ted DiBiase and improve your Tag division by teaming Hennig and DiBiase. Moving Natalya back to Tyson Kidd when he's off the injured list is an option as well. By then, maybe Natalya is ready to turn heel with a returning Kidd.

Rosa - Fine where she is with Epico and Primo. They're not on TV much, so send her back to NXT on non-TV days to work on her in-ring skills. If Epico and Primo are released, I could see her with the Prime Time Players... I would have thought she'd go well with Del Rio, but with Ricardo, three's a crowd and I just don't see Rosa as a face.

Layla - Based on interactions w/Kaitlyn, they might turn her heel. I think I would too. again, no harm in multiple people chasing the title. Plus, this would keep the matches with Kaitlyn fresh, facing multiple challenges as opposed to the same opponent every week. It also opens the door for triple threat and fatal four way type matches.

Cameron - I turn her heel w/ Brodus Clay. Clay's probably peaked in what he's doing and turning him heel seems to be a popular thought. Why not turn him by having him and Cameron turn on Naomi?

Naomi - Separate from Clay (as explained above) and go solo, possibly hooking her up with someone that would feud with Clay. The person that I'd team her up with would be Mark Henry, returning as a face. Kofi Kingston would be interesting, too. This opens up the door for mixed tag matches and to have her have matches on her own, too.

On to the NXT Divas:

Anya, Audrey Marie, Charlotte, Dani and Summer Rae are all still pretty new and I don't know a lot about them. Above, my plan would have 5 heels and 4 faces, which I think is plenty, if used correctly. No need to rush any of these girls up. Let them train.


Emma, Paige and Sasha Banks have all worked on the independent scene and would likley be the three that I center my NXT Divas division around. While Paige (Britani Knight) and Emma (Tenille Tayla) are probably good enough to be on the main roster, I don't want it to become to cluttered up there... That's how people get lost in the shuffle. Leaving them in NXT to continue to hone their craft, so that they can hit the main Roster with a bang, as opposed to a fizzle.

I would suggest, however, pairing Paige up with a fellow Brit, William Regal, in a "Mentor" sort of role. Having Regal with her, especially early on, could really catapault her to the top of the Divas division.

Finally, the one woman employed by WWE that nobody has talked about.... The one that could actually be the best female worker of them all... Sara Del Rey.

Currently a trainer at NXT, Del Rey is an asset that WWE already has, but for whatever reason, isn't using. No, she's not a supermodel, but she's not ugly, either. Maybe she doesn't want to wrestle full-time, but I doubt she'd object to working some house shows and/or dark matches to help the rest of the talent improve. Hell, if her looks are still an issue, throw a mask on her.

But again, first and foremost, giving them more time to work is probably going to help them much more than any amount of booking would.

-Bill

Last edited by BLeonard : 01-28-2013 at 02:59 AM.
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