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  #21  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:31 PM
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It's funny different people's perspectives on things. To be honest Raw was exactly what I expected it to be. I laughed my ass off when Del Rio ran over Santa Claus. The show entertained me far more than I thought it would. I can't believe people are trashing a Christmas episode of Raw this bad. Like some other posters have mentioned, Christmas is for kids. This show was lighthearted and fun. I think we are all starting to take our wrestling just a bit to seriously. I wouldn't want it to be like last night all the time, but I fully expected some silliness. We got a serious promo from Punk, and a few decent matches. Just a holiday episode guys, just a holiday episode.
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  #22  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:35 PM
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I can't stand those who complain about the current WWE.

People bag WWE because it appeals to "children". So? I think it is good that it appeals to children, and so should you, and here are three reasons why:-

1) They are the future fans of the WWE. Everyone knows that if you want to get people hooked on something, you target the children. Cigarette companies, McDonald's and the Nazis did that. If you offer the children a family friendly product now, they will be more likely to stick with it, and keep WWE in business. Don't you people want WWE to keep going? You won't always follow it, (especially if you like some of the morons saying that they won't watch WWE again....until next week).

(Off-topic, the mentality of many wrestling fans threatening to quit is like this. I find it funny when someone will review a PPV, and say "I wasn't going to pay to see another WWE PPV, but I just happened to be on in a bar I walked past, and I just happened to walk into that bar, and it just happened to be on the TV, so I watched it. But I won't watch it again....), and then the next month they just happen to see it again. LOL!)

Here's an example of converting the young to watch edgier content later. I am a fan of Batman, the superhero. Now, when I was a kid, I was introduced to it by seeing the corny 60's TV series. This then got me interested, and when the films came out, I saw all of them (even "Batman & Robin", unfortunately). But if I hadn't being introduced to the lighter product (the cheesy TV series), then I may not have seen the movies either.

It is the same with WWE. Face it, most of you would not have watched WWE during the "Attitude Era" if you hadn't got hooked on it in the "Hulkamania" era, so getting you hooked as kids had you watch years later, just like it will the kids of today. WWE's future depends on it.

2) It's good business- I remember when I went to see the "A-Team" movie at the cinemas, I later heard that it was beaten at the box-office by "The Karate Kid", a remake of the 80's film (this one had Will Smith's son in it). Then there was a discussion on message boards about why, and someone pointed out something.'

Kids' movies always do good business, because you sell twice, maybe three times the amount of tickets. It works like this:- A child wants to see a film, but he can't drive, and doesn't have any money. So his parent has to take him, automatically meaning the sale of TWO tickets, not just one (a parent and a child). If another child or another parent comes, it increases the tickets sales accordingly.

I recently went to a WWE show, and I see heaps of children wearing John Cena hats, armbands and T-shirts (so that is three items per child, you do the maths). Imagine how many tickets WWE sell by appealing to children, plus merchandise. At this show I attended, a blank piece of paper with Cena and Punk's signature sold for $80-90 dollars. The guy in front of me bought his three kids one EACH! That is at least $240 spent on just three scraps of paper. With suckers like that, why wouldn't WWE milk it?

3. It is something you can do with your kids. You should welcome PG era WWE, because your children can watch it and enjoy it also. They would have loved the Christmas episode, and would even like some of the other things too (like Hornswoggle). You should applaud this, as it can have you bond with your children over your love of wrestling. When they are old enough, whip out your tapes of the "Attitude Era" when they are old enough to not be as influenced by it (or a new "Attitude Era" may have come their way by then). You shouldn't want your children exposed to "Attitude Era" programming when they are too young for it. If you do, why not just have them watch violent films, porn movies and play violent video games, all while they drink a beer? If you want your children to have a good role model, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin or the Rock aren't it. John Cena is (however, parents should be their children's true role models, but that is another argument). If you want your children to defy you, not obey you, swear and curse and treat women badly, then introduce little Jimmy or Jenny to "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, to warp their values.

So, in the end, wrestling is about kids now. WWE knows the "Attitude" fans of yesteryear will more likely spend money on college tuition, marriage, children and mortgage than on PPV's and tickets, so they now focus on the young, who need their parents to pay for them. Christmas episodes cater to this,and the IWC needs to deal with it.
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  #23  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:38 AM
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Raw was great! like most posters, I feel that you don't have to take WWE so serious. It reminded me of when I was a kid and WWF put out the music videos featuring heels and faces.

It's all just entertainment. If you take wrestling too serious, you're probably one of these poor kids who live vicariously through your favorite WWE star because you have nothing else going on in your life.

Relax... It's fun family oriented entertainment.

Happy Holidays to everyone!!!
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  #24  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_henderson1810 View Post
It is the same with WWE. Face it, most of you would not have watched WWE during the "Attitude Era" if you hadn't got hooked on it in the "Hulkamania" era, so getting you hooked as kids had you watch years later, just like it will the kids of today. WWE's future depends on it.




There is so much wrong in your post I don't have time to cover it all but I did want to touch on this.

Hulk Hogan was before my time, the first time I EVER say him wrestle was when he came back to WWE with the NWO. I still watched the Attitude Era, and I have been watching wrestling ever sense.

What got me hooked? Stone Cold, The Rock, E&C/Dudleys/Hardys, Chris Jericho, The Undertaker and all of these guys taking part in some damn good stories that felt believable, like something normal guys would do. Normal guys are not going to run over Santa with a car or do a stupid "FOR SANTA" BS like Cena did last night. It's silly and really didn't appeal to anyone under the age of 5, and for the record my 7 and 5 year old nephews both watched it and commented on how stupid it is.

Child friendly product doesn't mean it has to be stupid, corny, and foolish. Children believe it or not still need a reasonable story that can make some sense not a grown adult acting like he's on some crusade because a guy in a santa costume got keyfabe hit with a car, and yes my nephews know, and understand, wrestling is scripted even at their age.

The issue is right now is that so many WWE superstars are acting in ways that simply don't make sense for their characters. Why isn't a "mexian aristocrat" who is suppose to be rich as hell not dropping money paying off for wins, protection, and really being a heelistic jackass? Why isn't the guy pegged as a "Celtic Warrior" that "loves to fight" being the brutal punishing no non-sense ass kicker he was suppose to be? I could go on but right now so many characters are being held back for various reasons, including but not limited to the PG programing.

Targeting the children is fine, if you do it right more power to ya, the problem is WWE has shown a complete and total lack of understanding in how to do it in the current generation and that is what is pissing us off.
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  #25  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by SacredMesa View Post
There is so much wrong in your post I don't have time to cover it all but I did want to touch on this.
That funny, cause have you actually read & thought about the shit you posted here? there's some preeeety stupid shit here

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Hulk Hogan was before my time, the first time I EVER say him wrestle was when he came back to WWE with the NWO. I still watched the Attitude Era, and I have been watching wrestling ever sense.
...and you call yourself a wrestling fan

Quote:
What got me hooked? Stone Cold, The Rock, E&C/Dudleys/Hardys, Chris Jericho, The Undertaker and all of these guys taking part in some damn good stories that felt believable, like something normal guys would do.


Really so you found the Ministry of Darkness, Mae Young giving birth to a hand, Val Venis getting his dick chopped off, or that they had vampires running around believable?

Quote:
Normal guys are not going to run over Santa with a car or do a stupid "FOR SANTA" BS like Cena did last night.
But they're going to run over Stone Cold, Ken Shamrock, trap Triple H in a car lift him up with a giant forklift & drop him on his head, or beat the holy hell out of Rock, lock him in an ambulance & crash a Semi truck into it? yeah right, sounds like shit normal people would do to me

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It's silly and really didn't appeal to anyone under the age of 5,
I'm 32 yrs. old, & found to hilarious, then again I was expecting nothing more than some stupid light fun from a holiday episode of RAW because I'm not a fucking idiot.

Quote:
and for the record my 7 and 5 year old nephews both watched it and commented on how stupid it is.
I was not aware your 7 & 5 yr. old nephews spoke for ever child in the world.

Quote:
Child friendly product doesn't mean it has to be stupid, corny, and foolish.
It wasn't, it was just some good light entertaining fun.

Quote:
Children believe it or not still need a reasonable story that can make some sense not a grown adult acting like he's on some crusade because a guy in a santa costume got keyfabe hit with a car, and yes my nephews know, and understand, wrestling is scripted even at their age.
You must absolutely despise like every Christmas movie ever made

Quote:
Why isn't the guy pegged as a "Celtic Warrior" that "loves to fight" being the brutal punishing no non-sense ass kicker he was suppose to be?
He is, he's just doing it as a face now. Do you even watch?!
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  #26  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:50 AM
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I haven't watched the show but I read KB's review. My question is, "Why the hell are so many people complaining?" This wasn't going to be a serious show. Sometimes you got to have fun and that's what this episode of Raw was. They still have plenty of time to build up the Rumble so this was a throwaway show.
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  #27  
Old 12-26-2012, 02:51 PM
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The only thing good about that RAW was the song. It was actually funny. But man...the matches were ass...and yes no heel can win. The Big show gotta job. Barret and Cessaro gotta job. look, I don't ride the heels' dick, but man not all of the faces are cool either. I prefer faces over heels btw. But I gotta say the wrestling was not good. Sandow vs. Bryan was the best match. Silence! No! Silence! Silence No! So fucking godlike. They kind made the wrong guys lay down. I will say the guys you don't see often got some TV time.(Kidd and etc.).
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  #28  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:21 PM
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People, people, people...anyone who even claims to be a wrestling fan knows a few things about pre-taped shows these days:

1) If it's a pretape from overseas we know we're going to either get a shock value title change if it's a first time taping in a place, or we are going to get at least one really long, solid in ring match if it's in a country they've taped multiple times. This year, they did change it up a bit and gave us a lot of in ring action in Australia...
2) If they are pre-taping for a holiday, usually only Xmas and New Years, we are not getting a serious show.

Now, this past week we got the Xmas eve pre-taped edition of Raw, and we got exactly what any true wrestling fan should expect: ring action, virtually no progress to stories and some holiday cheer thrown in.

There was one thing and one thing alone that bothered me about the show and it was the ominous music or silence when they hyped the update on Santa. That was pretty over the top to me.

As far as the show, there were things that actually made sense which made me happy:
-Del Rio hits Santa, so the face of the company is the guy he has to face. It didn't help Del Rio's face turn any, but there won't be a mention of that match after this week, I would assume. It was a decently worked comedy match. I would have liked it if they had kept some time going where Del Rio handed out gifts with Cena and Santa to progress the face turn a bit after the step back. Personally, I think that they should have run it that Del Rio, as an Xmas gift, let Ricardo drive the car and he hit Santa, and then Del Rio is held responsible and has to face Cena. Then, all the spots with the fake gifts would have helped gain sympathy with Del Rio. At that point, Del Rio loses and hands out the gifts with Foley and Cena.
-During the Lumberjack match, the lumberjacks got into it, so later, they had a 10 man match. You see, stuff like this makes sense and is missing far too often.
- They showed progress in the Dolph and AJ story without putting their insanity in the forefront.
-Punk's promo and Ryback coming out all made sense. Punk gave his promo, Ryback came out and further 'ruined' Christmas and Hannukah (Which, I love the fact that it had ended 10 days earlier, but that wasn't mentioned). On a side note, did his shist say 25/8 366? If so, that with the front saying 'Knees to faces' is a great shot at the Rock.

All in all, exactly what should have been expected from the show.
  #29  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by justinsayne View Post
...and you call yourself a wrestling fan




Because everyone that has ever watched wrestling had to start with Hogan amirite.



Quote:
Really so you found the Ministry of Darkness, Mae Young giving birth to a hand, Val Venis getting his dick chopped off, or that they had vampires running around believable?




Did I find it believable that people would dress up as Vampires and run around imitating them? Considering there is an entire culture/counter culture of people in this world that actually believe and buy into that yes I can easily say that is believable.

I also never said the attitude era was perfect, I said the stories made more sense. If you take for example The Rock vs Mankind, you had the Rock who at the time was the corperate champ the guy hand picked by the company to be the man, everyone has this type of person at their job. Then there was Mankind the eccentric that was damn good at what he did but people really didn't understand, again everyone has a person like this at their job. You had Stone Cold the guy who was so over and so important to the company they couldn't get rid of him pretty much no matter what he did, again everyone has this type of person where they work.

I could go on with how attitude era characters made sense, and you could potentially point out a few that don't. Let's look at a few PG era ones.

Del Rio and Sheamus I already called out so let's go to Cena.
First off WTF is he at this point? A rapper turned Marine turned Barnie the Dinosaur. Zero continuity or reasonable development in such a character and no matter what happens the character just stagnates it doesn't evolve and change as the world around him changes. People don't live like that, you don't have someone come into your house, slap your dag, or punt him in the head at your place of work and remain the same guy you've always been. Crap like that changes a person, but Cena nothing he shows a little anger and then nothing it doesn't make sense never has never will and I have yet to find a single child that actually buys into it.

Prime Time Players, they are suppose to be, in their minds, headliners the guys on at "prime time" who make the show. What do they do to actually sell this? They put their arms around each others and do a silly dance in the ring. Zero character development on these two guys, nothing to sell the whole "prime time" angle, although this could be argued that they haven't been given a chance since losing their manager. Either way it's still a lifeless character that does nothing. If the prime time angle is going to be a cocky exaggeration they can't live up to that's fine it needs to be sold that way right now they are just a dead lifeless tag team who really means nothing.

Big Show, this guy is suppose to be a monster and a giant. What does he do to put this over? He has a knock out punch...that's it. They should be show casing his power put him in lumberjack matches and let him power off a bunch of guys like Mark Henry did, let him come to the ring and clear out a host of people when all hell breaks loose, I mean really anything to showcase him as the monster he is suppose to be. If you take by comparison Kane when he first debuted as a monster he was damn near unstoppable and ran over everyone, including his brother the undertaker. It's fine to bring people down but when they are in the middle of their run like Big Show is he should appear as that monster right now he simply doesn't.

Do I really need to continue? WWE is littered with examples of characters not making sense, not having their characters being showcased in a manor that makes sense. It's like they are all just sitting back waiting for shit to happen instead of going out and using any means available to them to get shit done. This makes no sense and really devalues the product.


Quote:
But they're going to run over Stone Cold, Ken Shamrock, trap Triple H in a car lift him up with a giant forklift & drop him on his head, or beat the holy hell out of Rock, lock him in an ambulance & crash a Semi truck into it? yeah right, sounds like shit normal people would do to me




We live in a world where not to long ago a man walked into an elementary school and killed 26 children and teachers and you really want to tell me running over a grown adult or trying to physically end their careers in the middle of a personal fued or for personal gain is unbelievable? Really?




Quote:
I'm 32 yrs. old, & found to hilarious, then again I was expecting nothing more than some stupid light fun from a holiday episode of RAW because I'm not a fucking idiot.



Light and fun is one thing. Hell fat oily guy is light and fun, and makes sense as you could easily see someone wanting to humiliate someone they dislike in such a way. A full grown adult trying to sell running over a mythical and magical holiday figure capable of traveling the planet in a single day but unable to avoid a simple car isn't light and fun it's just stupid. I have no problem against Santa bits in wrestling, I've found a number of them comical at times, this wasn't that it was just stupid and the over the top acting around it by the performers also reflected the stupidity of it.


Quote:
I was not aware your 7 & 5 yr. old nephews spoke for ever child in the world.



It wasn't, it was just some good light entertaining fun.


They don't I used them to provide example that there are children, and really they are not the first, who find this crap stupid even for their standards. When 5-7 year olds who can find Thomas the Train reasonable think that your wrestling product is to silly and stupid to watch there is a serious problem.

It wasn't "good light entertaining fun." That would of been like the tribute to the troops a few years back when Santa came through the crowd giving our presents just for Stone Cold to uncover it was someone else "impersonating" Santa and giving him a stunner. That was good light entertaining fun. An entire locker room of full grown adults acting like Del Rio just ran over Santa was corny and foolish at best, completely stupid at worst, and it was damn close to it's worst.



Quote:
You must absolutely despise like every Christmas movie ever made



No if you take for example The Christmas Carol, it makes sense in the context of a world and has a relatable story, guy who feels money is all that is important realizes how much it has and will continue to ruin his life and changes his ways. It's simple and reasonable and can really be adapted for all ages depending on how serious or exaggerated you decide to make it.

Last mondays Santa fiasco wasn't even close to that.


Quote:
He is, he's just doing it as a face now. Do you even watch



Really? No non-sense eh? So his what only can be described as "pranking" of Big Show leading up to their title match that he would lose was considered "no non-sense?" His joking about Daniel Bryan's "18 second title loss" is considered "no non-sense?"

You don't have a clue what no non-sense is do you? When he first came in he was like that. He didn't give a damn who you where, what you did or anything beyond beating the shit out of you. If you want to do that as a face go ahead but that isn't what he is doing now.
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  #30  
Old 12-27-2012, 09:34 PM
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Some of you must lead some truly miserable lives.


Dude, it was ONE TAPED EPISODE on CHRISTMAS FUCKING EVE.

Who gives a shit? It was good old fashioned corball fun, and STILL managed to plug all of the major feuds going on. It starts at EIGHT and was on Xmas eve, obviously this is prime programming for families who are fans. Sorry there werent enough of people getting their dicks chopped off or frigthened girls being sacrificed to Satan for all of you angsty pimple faced losers who probably haven't touched a pussy since you passed through your mother's.

Those are the only types who I could imagien not just complaining, but being outraged about ONE EPISODE ON CHRISTMAS EVE. Go to a club and see an actual in real liife female titty or something. Pathetic fucks.
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