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View Poll Results: Should we complain?
Yes 93 79.49%
No 24 20.51%
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  #611  
Old 08-04-2012, 03:59 PM
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#WheresTrent #WheresYoshi #WheresJustin #WheresBarrett Hell, #WheresZack #WheresDrew

My general complaint is for the WWE's usage of the jobbers. Most of them, along with NXT, have completely vanished into thin air! Every now and then we'll see them in a match, sometimes even in a decent match, but every other time, you never see them. Remember when Drew McIntyre was the future of WWE? Remember the Dude Busters? Remember Yoshi's dark side? Remember the Corre? (for you Spanish nerds, I don't mean the Spanish running of some guy)

WWE brought these about to give an attempt (some large, some stupid) at getting these guys known and possibly in the main event picture. Now, the one jobber that's still poking his head in is Heath Slater and he almost ALWAYS loses. It isn't fair to have so many guys signed and then have no where for them. I'm sure they all work dark shows and such, but I'm getting tired of watching Sheamus beat up ADR or ADR w/ Ricardo beat up Sheamus, DBD flirting with AJ, and Cena closing every Raw show (and lately every SD show with a dark match) every damn week. What I'd like is something like this to start:

-Drew to face, Yoshi to heel and they feud

-Trent Barretta and Justin Gabriel become a tag team and feud Wade Barrett and Slater

-Zack Ryder to feud against JTG

-NXT to return on tv

-Cena to start a show and stay in the back for the rest of the show

But I'll be lucky if only one of those points ever happens in a million years. That's what bothers me about the WWE because they keep showing the same stuff over and over and over and over again. Spice it up Vince!
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  #612  
Old 08-11-2012, 09:25 AM
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Default Linda McMahon = Death of WWE

It seems a lot of people are either not talking about this and or are taking the wrong slant. The WWE product and its awful content for the past few years can be directly correlated to Linda McMahon. This thread though WILL NOT AND SHOULD NOT become a political thread being either for or against ones political party.

As long as LM runs for senate she will hold the WWE hostage. Her political party is stereotyped as being more buttoned shall we say, than the one she is not. Due to this reason, any affiliation she has with any entity, be it corporate, entertainment, personal etc. MUST be clean of any objection from the party base. SO by defacto the WWE must now and forever as long as she is in office/running for the product we love will be....well just not great.

You better believe this is driving VKM nuts to. Even though he is in the camp of his wife's party as well, i tend to believe he leans that way due to fiscal reasons and NOT social political ones. He knows in the 90's is when he made his $$$ - and has started to loose it more & more. While the current economy can be a driving force in failing stock prices for the economy - it usually does not effect affinity "good ol boy" entertainment products like this. Remember ppl, in a depression 3 things ALWAYS MAKE $, Liquor companies, i.e. Jimmy, Jack & Johnny - personal hobby/escape tools, like the WWE, and sex related products, when you have no $ to spend your gonna stay home, and assuming your not a Cena fan your with a woman. Vince knows he should be making what he was in the 90's. Yet Vince is willing to lose $ & viewers in what he hopes is the bigger picture. Being the spouse of a senator while not at all "fun" does allow one to do a few tings - one large thing being having the ear of a voting member of a gov. sub committee.

Anyway, this is not going to become a PolySci 201 class. So Linda is the death of the WWE: What say you trolls of the interwebs - agree or disagree...
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  #613  
Old 08-11-2012, 09:33 AM
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Cut and pasted from another thread, because the point is exactly the same.

The voting public does not give a shit about what professional wrestlers have to say.

There are more important issues in this country right now. You folks pay attention to the Connecticut Senate race to the extent of reading the headlines on the main page of this site. Hearing about what one performer said might sound newsworthy to you, but the real issue being fought over in CT right now is jobs. People want to know that there's someone out there working to make sure they can keep theirs; or have the opportunity to get a better one, far more than they care right now about a Kobe Bryant rape joke.

The WWE isn't deliberately sabotaging their company for the sake of Linda McMahon's Senate campaign. They are a publicly traded company. The goal of a publicly traded company is to make money for its shareholders. They can be held civilly liable for damages if it could be demonstrated simply that the WWE didn't do everything in their power to maximize their investment.

Furthermore, a deliberate decision to damage one's company- and the workers within it- for the sake of a senate run would pretty much doom any talk of being a 'job creator'. Not to mention a criminal act.


This part is fresh, however. Entertainment is not a drug. While there are always some people who prefer to spend $40 a month on pay-per-views while not being able to make rent, the statistical majority of people are able to manage a budget and plan their expenses based around the amount of money they have available. Chemical dependency is just a bit stronger than the desire to see which sweaty oiled-up guy in spandex beats up another sweaty oiled-up guy in spandex.

The WWE going PG was a corporate decision based on the theory that a PG product would bring in more money from potential advertisers than a TV-14 product. Folks who sincerely want to believe in an evil corporate-political conspiracy will look only at "14 to PG", and not at other factors affecting the WWE's business; the rise of the UFC, the rapid proliferation of cable/satellite channels creating far more competition for viewing eyes, and the drastically increased ability to follow WWE product on the internet, taking away from their television audience.

What people really don't seem to grasp around here is that manipulating a publicly traded company for a political purpose is actually a crime, akin to theft. At the very least, it would be very easy to form a class-action lawsuit and sue Vince for damages.
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  #614  
Old 08-11-2012, 09:38 AM
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I truly don't understand people's gripe with the PG Era. It seems that while we were younger our minds became over saturated with weapons, blood, sex, and crude violence. Wrestling existed way before the attitude era and it didn't need outlandish stunts to get the wrestlers over or to draw crowds.

Are you guys really telling me that because a wrestler has to use "beat up" instead of "ass kicking" that it RUINS wrestling? I'm sorry, to me wrestling is what happens between the ropes and if you need a blade job to enjoy the match than I question your knowledge of sound psychology and wrestling in general.

Shawn Michaels once said he believes cutting a promo in the WWE is harder than anywhere else becase you're not allowed to say anything you want. But why do we bitch about that? If a wrestler has to use profanity in order to manipulate emotions then you should questions said wrestlers charismatic ability as a whole. It's the same as these wrestlers that think the only way they can show anger and strength is by yelling. Jake Roberts never once had to raise his voice in order to relay his emotions. Jake was one of the best on the mic of all time, one of the most underrated as well... and he doesn't need stupid rape jokes or four letter words to evoke emotions. He has intelligence and creativity to get there.

That's my main point, is that we're all clamoring for the end of the PG... demanding it's death like a mob trying to burn a witch at the stake. We blame the PG era for everything from bad ratings to bad matches to bad gimmicks and characters. When do we start blaming the writers and the wrestlers... and not a damn rating? All this is doing is making it a little tougher for people to be creative simply because everyone's creative mind is stuck in the mindset they had 10 years ago AW himself even admitted it. That's his fault.

CM Punk cut a promo last year that changed his life. He cut a promo that the IWC blew up over. He did that because he is talented, and creative. PG Ratings will not quiet the great minds of wrestling... instead it will just purge those that rely on cheap tricks to get a reaction.
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  #615  
Old 08-11-2012, 09:57 AM
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Dude, if you wanna blame someone for WWE losing its edge & catering to PC morons instead of focusing on their product, blame Benoit. It was after the incident and the media/PR backlash from it that WWE decided that it was time to "improve" their image. It was toning itself down since July 2007. Linda is/was just a spoke on the wheel, but Benoit was the vehicle. Thing is as said 100s of times you can still do edgy/creative stuff PG or not Linda running or not as long as it's not Katie Vick-like. Problem is they care so much about image and catering to people who will NEVER like wrestling that not only has it helped ruin the product(along with poor talent and creative) but they've also lost $500 million. They've been a publicly traded company since 1999 and that's hasn't stopped them from doing edgy, dark, more mature storylines, angles and matches.
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  #616  
Old 08-11-2012, 10:13 AM
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Default Finding It Hard To Justify Your Love For WWE?

So it's been pretty well noted that over the past few years the product WWE have put forwards has not been the best....But you know what? that does not bother me!

It's been noted that over the past few years WWE has seen a major decrease in talent....but that does not bother me either!

As i was growing up and watching WWF/WWE i was really fascinated by this world of action and emotion where dreams can come true. It could make you laugh, make you cry, make you angry and at times just downright make you sick...but in a good way! WWF/WWE was the place where anything could happen and there was nothing i wanted more as a youngster than to be a "SUPERSTAR!" and really live the dream! But.........

Over the past few years we have all got a real insight in to what it would be like to work for WWE. The way Vince runs things is tight! but lets face it...the guy is a bully! WWE will flaunt it's success every week on T.V. and host this BAS bullying campaign and try to make out how nice their company really is when in fact that couldnt be futher from the truth!

What im basically trying to say is that....I used to think of WWE as the place where dreams are made but now i feel like its the place where dreams are crushed and with every report of deserving wrestlers being treated like crap, talented wrestlers being censored to ensure they dont get too "over" and the all round mean spirited way management goes about their business has nearly destroyed all my love for this company that has built up from being a 4 year old kid in front of the tv.

I'm finding it very hard to justify my love for a company who seem to treat their guys pretty bad when it comes to being creative *cough* AW *cough* and of course all the blatent lies they spout every week just leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth when watching.

Am i the only one that feels this way?
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  #617  
Old 08-11-2012, 10:17 AM
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Blaming Benoit is totally wrong, after all he was not the first WWE superstar to be accused of murdering someone. Vince simply wasn't able to hush the Benoit situation up...

For those who don't know, in 1983 Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka was THE guy in WWE, until his girlfriend was found dead after a domestic dispute (scarily also called Nancy, that is a bad luck name for sure)

Police never charged Snuka but he was found liable in civil court by her family (he never paid the judgement) and the concensus from police was that he had hurled her over a balcony!

Yep, the guy in the Hall Of Fame, who shows up still in the PG era...has a civil judgement against him for responsibility for someones death... Yet that does not affect Linda's campaign one jot, oh but Benoit "killed a kid too?" Really, killing is killing... if THAT doesn't affect Linda's campaign aspirations, if Vince's steriod trial, Owen's death or the number of dead wrestlers enough to stop voters (she has never been caned at an election, they are always close) then nothing WWE does onscreen will make a difference to it!

WWE always WAS a PG entity, it was only when they were on the verge of going to the wall they tried something different and it worked for them... It could easily have backfired and it is not what Vince was comfortable with, he resorted back to PG the moment he had a star capable carrying it.

Vince made his money marketing toys, cartooons, ice-cream bars and foam hands to kids... He turned the wresting promotion he bought into a kid focused merchandising machine based on wrestling. He wanted the cigar smoking old school fans gone cos they bought a beer and that was it, a family would buy merch by the truckload...

The IWC, Attitude era fans etc are the modern equivalent of those Cigar Smoking Old Guys... they don't want to do what we think they should, they want the families to spend $300 on one visit to a show cos they know we will stream it and maybe buy one video game a year...
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  #618  
Old 08-11-2012, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Infinity View Post
I truly don't understand people's gripe with the PG Era. It seems that while we were younger our minds became over saturated with weapons, blood, sex, and crude violence. Wrestling existed way before the attitude era and it didn't need outlandish stunts to get the wrestlers over or to draw crowds.

Are you guys really telling me that because a wrestler has to use "beat up" instead of "ass kicking" that it RUINS wrestling? I'm sorry, to me wrestling is what happens between the ropes and if you need a blade job to enjoy the match than I question your knowledge of sound psychology and wrestling in general.

Shawn Michaels once said he believes cutting a promo in the WWE is harder than anywhere else becase you're not allowed to say anything you want. But why do we bitch about that? If a wrestler has to use profanity in order to manipulate emotions then you should questions said wrestlers charismatic ability as a whole. It's the same as these wrestlers that think the only way they can show anger and strength is by yelling. Jake Roberts never once had to raise his voice in order to relay his emotions. Jake was one of the best on the mic of all time, one of the most underrated as well... and he doesn't need stupid rape jokes or four letter words to evoke emotions. He has intelligence and creativity to get there.

That's my main point, is that we're all clamoring for the end of the PG... demanding it's death like a mob trying to burn a witch at the stake. We blame the PG era for everything from bad ratings to bad matches to bad gimmicks and characters. When do we start blaming the writers and the wrestlers... and not a damn rating? All this is doing is making it a little tougher for people to be creative simply because everyone's creative mind is stuck in the mindset they had 10 years ago AW himself even admitted it. That's his fault.

CM Punk cut a promo last year that changed his life. He cut a promo that the IWC blew up over. He did that because he is talented, and creative. PG Ratings will not quiet the great minds of wrestling... instead it will just purge those that rely on cheap tricks to get a reaction.
i agree and disagree with what you said. its partially creative and talents fault but its also other things. Its talent and creatives job to come up with things that work around the pg thing

but the key thing is, its 2012. you cant compare what happened in hogan-savage,warrior era to now. the 80's were MUCH different in a society sense. times have changed and you must go WITH that, and thats why there losing their audience. you cant say what worked in the 80s will work now, times are different things have happened over those 20 years. you have to cater to what the audience demands. you cant go from all out attitude era and then fully scale it back your going to lose fans. now adult audiences are looking at realism, mma is popular as ever and even though dana and vince sayt here not in competetion, in reality they are as the demographics are pit against one another, and the 18-35 want something real. Will wrestling ever be real, no but atleast add bits and peices of realism not make it cartoonish like the 80s were, it wont work times are diff.

As i said you cant fully blame the wrestlers and creative because they are indeed held back by the pg era as your limited to what you can do. why do you think big names who left wont return. Austin,rock,batista have all bashed the pg era and said they wouldnt come back in it. The rock only came back because vince caved in on his demands and let him use his rock persona. Prior to that the rock said no way he would return as "the rock" wasnt a pg character and he could no way pull it off being pg. Vince would do the exact same with austin as again hes not a character that would work in pg.

punks promo was brilliant, but do you not think vince gave him more liberties with that promo than anyone else? theres only so much you can do being pg and its hurting the product as its a limitation. yes there getting the kids but what happens when those kids get older ? there going to do the same as most, and turn away when they see other realisms.

people talk about how laurenities hasnt created a star..while true its also not entirely his fault. Again times have changed, under jr , jr recruited real atheltes to join wwe. During this time wrestling was the only option for college wrestlers and olympic guys who wanted to make money. brock,angle and some others have talked about it. they would of NEVER joined WWE if mma was where its at today. WWE now has to share that talent pool with mma and more n more are going to mma because it will make them more money(dont give me the brock thing, brock made more money per fight than his deal now). this is also hurting wwe.

will losing the pg rating instantly skyrocket ratings and product......no... it will be a slow process for the better though as they need to reel back in the 18-35 year old group. vince tries to do everything to shrug this off saying ufc ratings are horrible but to anyone with knowledge they know hes playing a game to people who are unaware. Vince is spitting out flat ratings which when u compare what raw does to ufc on fx. You cant look at it that way however and this is commonly talked about in mma.

You have to compare the percentage of total viewership aloowed on channel to how many watched. An example of this is when UFC and sf were not under the same umbrella. Strikeforce had fedor vs rogers on cbs while ufc pitted a rerun of a ppv on spike. strikeforce drew 5.2 million viewers and spike drew 1.4.... to the common person SF looked to of killed the ufc(this is what vince is trying to do), but when networks look at this this is not what they look at. CBS reachs 99 percent of homes while spike is something like 40. when you break down the viewership the ufc actually beat strikeforce desipite having almost 4 million less views. so while vince is getting more views its also because more people have that network... also, with mma it depends on night, and whos fighting. Alot of the FX fights are rather unknowns so people wont tune in, they save all their headlineers for ppv where the money is.

This is another reason why TNA is doing bad in rating, they have a ceiling and can only go so high. i doubt theyll ever reach raw numbers, and its because spike doesnt reach near the people USA network does
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  #619  
Old 08-11-2012, 10:28 AM
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The Benoit incident, the massive backlash in sports Re: concussions (want to blame someone for the toned down nature of WWE'S product, blame Sidney Crosby, Dave Duerson, etc), those things would have slowed down the WWE Circus wether Linda was running or not. Vince cant have the news outlets talking about his programming filled with profanity, steel chair head shots, and drugs, not if he wants to keep his most important audience, 8-15 yr olds, the ones who buy the shirts, posters, attend the house shows, and buy the PPVs. When it was just the stupid sophomore humor and language WWE could hide behing the "parents dont have to let their kids watch" mantra. Benoit, linked to concussion syndrome and a synthetic drug user, encouraged the media to shine a whole new light on the pro wrestling culture, the unusually high amount of early deaths, steroids, head injuries, add to that the lawsuits engulfing the NFL over the concussion issue, it was the kind of business killing bad press Vince couldnt deal with.

Even if Linda was not running we would be in a PG style promotion, ironically largely due to Benoit who was never a guy known for using the profanity or harder edged antics to get over with the crowd. Of course, he had almost zero charisma so he couldnt have done that or he would have looked ridiculous, which honestly is the case with most of todays top stars.

Everyone who gripes about the product and wishes for a return to the late 90s promo & skit style misses the point about why todays product isnt as entertaining. Its not about PG or Attitude its about talent and guys like Daniel Bryan, Miz, Del Rio, etc have not shown near the charisma of Austin, HHH, Taker, Rock et all. Thats why HHH & Taker are still headlining (and drawing money) today.

I wonder what you guys would have done in the 80s, you would have hated WWE With a passion, todays product is far more adult with much better matches. No doubt you guys would have been watching the NWA.
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  #620  
Old 08-11-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
As i said you cant fully blame the wrestlers and creative because they are indeed held back by the pg era as your limited to what you can do. why do you think big names who left wont return. Austin,rock,batista have all bashed the pg era and said they wouldnt come back in it. The rock only came back because vince caved in on his demands and let him use his rock persona. Prior to that the rock said no way he would return as "the rock" wasnt a pg character and he could no way pull it off being pg. Vince would do the exact same with austin as again hes not a character that would work in pg
.
Great wrestlers/writers can adapt to anything regardless of "limits". See Undertaker and HBK.

As for the wrestlers, Austin said it himself that PG wasn't the problem it was solely on creative(which is why he left in 2002), plus wasn't he around last year and 2010? Batista I'll give you(though he's an Attitude Era mark) and as for Rock it was TV-14 until 2008 yet he still wasn't around since 2004.
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