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  #11  
Old 04-09-2012, 08:16 AM
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I think Hall much like Luger in his time in the wwf was all in the wrong direction and heres why, in the wwf Luger and Hall had these over the top kind of cheesy gimmicks and to be a narcissist and a an american made lex luger and a chico suave scarface wannabe didn'y help them at all, once they went to the wcw and they were givin a chance to be themselves and actually be in reality was when they were more viable and more profitable. Much as Rocky did the same thing before being allowed to be himself and become the Rock and act like himself otherwise things may not have ever changed for either individual stone cold is another incorporation of once your allowed to be yourself your character becomes more evolved. The only difference between Hall and Rock was under the WWF branch if Hall would've been able to be Scott Hall after a period of time he'd made it as champion atleast once because in the early 90's Hall was apart of the main event scenes in the WWF but as Hall he would've made it if he hadn't left with Nash and stayed. Their paths were similar but in all honesty they were never going in the same direction as you think they were.
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2012, 09:00 AM
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In my opinion the die Rocky die thing had zero effect on Vince wanting to push Rock. Sure Vince had to pull back on the babyface push but Vince had always every intentions to push Rock to the moon. He was pushed pretty heavily from the get-go. After his IC title run, he had Rock join the Nation. And look how quickly Farooq was set aside for the Rock. I mean it wasn't a matter of a year, in the blink of an eye, he became leader of the Nation. Hell we did not even see and genuine power struggle in the group. It took about one week for Farooq to say "hey wait a minute i'm the leader here!" then there was the eye brow and the other members turned on him. Rock was always pushed heavily cause Vince always saw his potential.
Tommy dreamer wrote an article recently about the rock cena match before mania. He stated that when the rocky maivia character failed and vince sent dwayne home, Paul Heyman asked to get dwayne for ECW. So maybe that might have influenced vince about rocky's potential.
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2012, 09:19 AM
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i dont think so. I dont think all the pieces were there for what the rock brought when Razor was there. I think the rock is far better on the mic. i mean dont get me wrong "hey yo" was great, but it only takes ya so far. wwe wasnt as edgy when it was razor either. plus vince didnt know if the rock would ever take off.
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  #14  
Old 04-09-2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by New Hot Fed View Post
In my opinion the die Rocky die thing had zero effect on Vince wanting to push Rock. Sure Vince had to pull back on the babyface push but Vince had always every intentions to push Rock to the moon. He was pushed pretty heavily from the get-go. After his IC title run, he had Rock join the Nation. And look how quickly Farooq was set aside for the Rock. I mean it wasn't a matter of a year, in the blink of an eye, he became leader of the Nation. Hell we did not even see and genuine power struggle in the group. It took about one week for Farooq to say "hey wait a minute i'm the leader here!" then there was the eye brow and the other members turned on him. Rock was always pushed heavily cause Vince always saw his potential.
You may want to re-read my post. "Die Rocky Die!" chants is what sparked Dwayne to request he be allowed to change his name to The Rock. I never said Vince pushed The Rock due to the chants, Vince pushed The Rock because he thought he was a natural, which to his credit he is and was, but outside that as Vince states on the DVD he didn't see Dwayne booming to the success he eventually gained. But when fans started to dislike Rocky Maivia, The Rock requested that he be allowed to turn heel. They rejected the request because they said they'd faith, but he kept pushing and they eventually allowed it, because Dwayne himself felt he was a more natural bad guy and that It'd be conveyed much better.

The Rock's push, which involved him keeping the Intercontinental Championship as long as he did, becoming the leader of the Nation of Domination, his feud with Ron Simmons, his feud with D-Generation X aswell as his feud with Austin over the IC Championship were all based off the fact that they came to the realisation his strong point was speaking on the microphone and his ability to gain heat while doing so. Only advice I can give you is watch the DVD, at one point Vince said he was worried that The Rock would end up being a bust due to the fans reactions, and that if it wasn't for the fact he was such a good heel when they turned him that could have been the inevitable.
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  #15  
Old 04-09-2012, 04:38 PM
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Scott Hall as Razor Ramon was never seriously thought of as being made WWF champion and spend all of his first WWF run in the IC title picture and was featured regularly on TV and PPV at the time on a level just before whom was WWF Champ and/or Bret/Taker feuds at the time for instance, for that read upper mid-card.

The Rock was build up from the start as someone who had the potential etc to become a star at a time when the setup of the company. What Vince did with Rock, he should of done to others like Cena and that is changed their character etc to allow them to grow yes, Rock was given that chance that others haven't been given, but I myself don't see that you could compare both Hall and Rock for one being the success that the other one could of been given that they are from two different eras when the company was growing in different ways.
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  #16  
Old 04-09-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rocksaviour View Post
Scott Hall as Razor Ramon was never seriously thought of as being made WWF champion and spend all of his first WWF run in the IC title picture and was featured regularly on TV and PPV at the time on a level just before whom was WWF Champ and/or Bret/Taker feuds at the time for instance, for that read upper mid-card.
Before Scott Hall jumped ship, Razor Ramon was one of the most liked and over characters in the WWE. You don't know what Vince McMahon had planned for Scott Hall because it has never been detailed, chances are he would have eventually became a World Champion because of his position in the company. Back in the early 90's throughout his WWE run Scott was a well liked guy who a lot of people compliment, including the likes of Bret Hart who has said some of his fondest memories were his matches against Scott Hall.

Quote:
What Vince did with Rock, he should of done to others like Cena and that is changed their character etc to allow them to grow yes, Rock was given that chance that others haven't been given...
Most don't alter their characters if it isn't working, repackages are rare, but The Rock wasn't the only person given one. And it wasn't Vince's idea to change Rocky Maivia to The Rock, it was Dwayne Johnson's idea, because he wanted people to stop chanting "Die Rocky Die!" because it was upsetting his mother. Stone Cold was The Ringmaster, he wanted to be something different and WWE allowed him. Triple H was a blueblood, he changed his ring name from Hunter Hearst Helmsley to Triple H and he ended up achieving success.

And in-terms of John Cena, he has had more character changes than The Rock and has grow in a pretty similar fashion. He debuted being all about "Ruthless Aggression" and eventually became "The Doctor of Thuganomics", then when he was gunning for the WWE Championship he dropped that and simply became John Cena. And has time has developed he has grown so much, that much like The Rock he doesn't need a gimmick, because he is too good for one.
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  #17  
Old 04-09-2012, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by The Dragon Saga View Post
Before Scott Hall jumped ship, Razor Ramon was one of the most liked and over characters in the WWE. You don't know what Vince McMahon had planned for Scott Hall because it has never been detailed, chances are he would have eventually became a World Champion because of his position in the company. Back in the early 90's throughout his WWE run Scott was a well liked guy who a lot of people compliment, including the likes of Bret Hart who has said some of his fondest memories were his matches against Scott Hall.



Most don't alter their characters if it isn't working, repackages are rare, but The Rock wasn't the only person given one. And it wasn't Vince's idea to change Rocky Maivia to The Rock, it was Dwayne Johnson's idea, because he wanted people to stop chanting "Die Rocky Die!" because it was upsetting his mother. Stone Cold was The Ringmaster, he wanted to be something different and WWE allowed him. Triple H was a blueblood, he changed his ring name from Hunter Hearst Helmsley to Triple H and he ended up achieving success.

And in-terms of John Cena, he has had more character changes than The Rock and has grow in a pretty similar fashion. He debuted being all about "Ruthless Aggression" and eventually became "The Doctor of Thuganomics", then when he was gunning for the WWE Championship he dropped that and simply became John Cena. And has time has developed he has grown so much, that much like The Rock he doesn't need a gimmick, because he is too good for one.
Razor was a pair of "safe hands" for the IC title... and he could have gone to the world title... but arguably a lot of what held him back was also what kept him in that spot... The Kliq... Shawn and Nash were the top dogs... Hall the able lieutenant... now had Shawn gone to WCW with Nash, Hall had a shot... and perhaps his leaving WWF had a lot to do with the fact he was always gonna be 3rd in the Kliq and thus the Roster...
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  #18  
Old 04-09-2012, 07:09 PM
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Vince wanted both to be stars, and they both eventually did become stars. I'm not sure if Razor was going to ever be the world champion, because despite not being a main eventer, he was a star. The Rock, on the other hand, seemed to be destined to be a main eventer. He was pushed pretty hard since he came in, and within two years he was already the WWE World Champion. So while both were stars, Rock was main event while Hall was upper mid card.
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  #19  
Old 04-11-2012, 10:18 AM
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VKM's intention for Rocky Maivia was the be a blue-chipper, the ultimate face. I would compare it to John Cena today. But Scott Hall was never intended to be a face, he was to be this greasy, foreigner heel that was arrogant and stuck-up. It's interesting to see how fan reactions changed the course of history for both men. Razor Ramon turned face and Maivia turned heel because of how fans reacted to their characters. The crucial promo where Rocky Maivia became The Rock, the fans went from chanting Rocky Sucks to outright booing him (which is perfect for a heel).

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