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  #11  
Old 03-13-2012, 01:09 PM
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That fights are worked. This isn't the WWE. Where's your proof that they were worked? Sure some decisions have been bullshit but that's a matter of opinion. Where did anyone say professional fights have been a work?
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2012, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Crashin View Post
That fights are worked. This isn't the WWE. Where's your proof that they were worked? Sure some decisions have been bullshit but that's a matter of opinion. Where did anyone say professional fights have been a work?
There have been many fighters who fought in PRIDE that have said there were fights that were fixed in some manner. Rampage in particular has talked of it many times.

When your primary backer is the Yakuza, it's never going to be totally on the up and up.

I've never heard anything about Pancrase being fixed though.
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2012, 09:25 PM
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All you have to do is watch it.

Rickson vs Takada was a work if I've ever seen one. Takada vs Mark Coleman was a work obviously. All you have to do is see it with your own eyes. I've seen millions of fights, and those are worked if I've ever seen it. Just go back and watch some of the early Pancrase with Vernon White. Some of those "Fights" were obvious.

Same goes for Sakuraba's Pride run against Vernon White, Carlos Newton, Shannon Ritch, and maybe, just maybe his fight against Guy Mezger at the 2000 Pride Grand Prix. That tournament was riddled with worked fights. Royce Gracie vs Takada was worked to set up Royce vs Sakuraba in the second round(plus the goofy ending with Ken Shamrock in the Sak vs Mezger first round fight). Coleman's fight against Fujita in that tournament was worked because Fujita was unable to fight due to injuries. They agreed to do what they did so he would get the purse for the second fight in the tournament.

The proof is that Quinton Jackson admitted that Pride offered to pay him extra to lose to Sakuraba in that same run. Rampage says that he didn't take the money, and I believe him. He was legitimately choked the fuck out in that fight.

As for the UFC, they are legit today, but back in the day they did have a few worked fights as well. Don Frye vs Mark Hall in the Ultimate Ultimate 96 tournament, and Oleg Taktarov vs Anthony Macias at UFC VI. Obvious works if you just know what you are looking at.

Last edited by ShinobiMusashi : 03-13-2012 at 09:28 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-14-2012, 05:29 PM
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I believe today's fighters, such as Anderson Silva, GSP, Wanderlei Silva would fare well in the old-school UFC, as they have a better understanding off all the elements of MMA. Ken Shamrock had a decent knowledge of many of these same aspects and i believe this is what made him successful until he got injured in Pro-Wrestling. It would be funny to see some of the looks on the younger guys faces knowing it's bare knuckles, no rules! Still, i'd love to see early 90's Shamrock in the UFC today
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2012, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ShinobiMusashi View Post
I'll say this right now. Nobody could beat Royce Gracie in a Real fight in his prime. No rules, no gloves, no time limit, no rounds, Royce wins every time. You can take the best fighters from today, and take them back in time, put them in a fight against Royce in that classic setting, and I'd put my money on Royce.

He was a major reason why they made a lot of those rules. In that setting he would be so patient, and strategic. He would just hold you, and wait for even an hour if he had to(his family had done it several time in Brazillian fights). Sooner or later, he would catch you. It didn't matter how big you were, or how strong you were, he would catch you.

Sure it was boring to watch, but that was besides the point. In a real fight setting, nobody could beat the man. It was only when they introduced the "Stand up" rule, and rounds that people could finally beat him.

I'm one of the few MMA people that says screw the entertainment aspect of the sport. If you want entertainment, go watch pro wrestling. I just want to see who the real best fighter in the world is. When they introduced the stand up rules, and rounds they took the spirit out of the fights.

The UFC is better than ever now, and the fighters are much better but the old days were Real fights. Heroes were made in those first 10 tournaments. I miss the old days of MMA.
Yup you be bankrupt!! UFC is way better now than its ever been. Sure i miss the old days but Royce had only one style BJJ!! His stand up sucked wrestling sucked his BJJ TOP TOP of the food chain no doubt on that!! Remember Matt huges pounded him! THink about this for one moment Royce fought at 170 take Pre Injury GSP and have GSP fight Royce!! GSP would murder Royce absoutely destroy him. Sure Royce is a hero he is the godfather of MMA not just the UFC.

you think with the new rules they took the spirit out of fights? Have you seen Gomi V diaz Cro Cop v Fedor Henderson V shogun? I can go on and on those fights and many many more are full of spirit!
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  #16  
Old 04-08-2012, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinobiMusashi View Post
I'll say this right now. Nobody could beat Royce Gracie in a Real fight in his prime. No rules, no gloves, no time limit, no rounds, Royce wins every time. You can take the best fighters from today, and take them back in time, put them in a fight against Royce in that classic setting, and I'd put my money on Royce.

He was a major reason why they made a lot of those rules. In that setting he would be so patient, and strategic. He would just hold you, and wait for even an hour if he had to(his family had done it several time in Brazillian fights). Sooner or later, he would catch you. It didn't matter how big you were, or how strong you were, he would catch you.

Sure it was boring to watch, but that was besides the point. In a real fight setting, nobody could beat the man. It was only when they introduced the "Stand up" rule, and rounds that people could finally beat him.

I'm one of the few MMA people that says screw the entertainment aspect of the sport. If you want entertainment, go watch pro wrestling. I just want to see who the real best fighter in the world is. When they introduced the stand up rules, and rounds they took the spirit out of the fights.

The UFC is better than ever now, and the fighters are much better but the old days were Real fights. Heroes were made in those first 10 tournaments. I miss the old days of MMA.
Even though I agree with a majority of what you said, Wallid Ismail choked out Royce Gracie in a fight where there were no time limits and no judges. This was during both of these fighters primes. But Ismail made his debut at UFC 12 and lost by decision....so that fight never happened on the big stage. I would have loved to seen that fight @ UFC IV or V.
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  #17  
Old 04-08-2012, 11:06 PM
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You cant compare modern day ufc fighters to back in the day...back in the day you had fight style vs fight style... Now you have MMA fighters who are all well rounded in all parts of the game...if you put Royce Gracie in a cage in his prime against a good part of todays welterweights...Royce looses I would imagine
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  #18  
Old 04-13-2012, 01:31 PM
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I think it depends on what your criteria is. If you are talking about the overall skill of the fighters, I think the modern day UFC would kick the old school UFC's ass. Today's fighters are far more well-rounded, skilled in multiple styles than they were. They had to be. As soon as one of those old school UFC fighters figured out that if they learned additional styles to fight they would have more weapons at their disposal, other fighters had to do the same to stay relevant. In that, today's MMA fighters are flat out technically better.

HOWEVER, if you want to talk about just the overall style of the match itself, today's UFC can't hold a candle to the old school style. You simply didn't see many fights called off, they just kept at it until someone flat out got their ass kicked. Today's UFC bouts are matches, old school UFC bouts were FIGHTS. There was something visceral about them.

Personally, I would say give me today's skilled combatants with the looser rules back then, a blend of the two.
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