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  #21  
Old 04-03-2012, 07:29 PM
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No, again, I'm a realist. Not prejudiced. I'm not prejudging anyone, that's what you are doing. Both are innocent until proven guilty, meaning Zimmerman's involvement can only be speculated on, just as Martin's involvement can only be speculated on. As for your going on about eyewitnesses, you seemed to failed to mention or was uninformed about the 1-2 women that saw Martin squarely on top of Zimmerman, with Zimmerman screaming for help. As for the shooting? IF and only if Zimmerman was getting his head bashed in by Martin, then yes, I'd shoot that person too. Don't tell me where I get off shooting someone. If I were to feel threatened, then I'd shoot to protect myself. If you woudln't, then you'd be dead or seriously injured. Your stupid choice.

"This is the biggest issue I have with your post. Where in the fuck do you get off deciding on who is saintly enough to not be shot? It shouldn't fucking matter at all if he was a saint or not, no one is deserving of simply being shot out in the street when they aren't the aggressor without due process of the law, including Zimmerman."

You obviously didn't comprehend my post. Read it again. I was not deciding that he deserved to be "shot". I said who knows what he was capable of, as in "he very well could have instigated the fight". I never blatantly said he deserved to be shot. However, if he were to attack me, I would defend myself, even if he was a saint.

I don't really care if you want to resort to labeling and taking issue with my stance. I'm just explaining myself to make my points clear. This is obviously a touchy situation. One that people are jumping the gun on. The media started a frenzy with blowing this up without much fact. You said what do I consider concrete? Well, eye-witnesses and video recordings that show Zimmerman bloodied and underneath Martin are pretty solid. Unclear and grainy recordings of screaming, as you are pushing, are anything but factual.

I don't care if this is an unpopular stance. I'd rather be cautious and correct in my stance and wait for the full collection of facts from the events before blindly defending one side or the other out of crippling emotion.
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  #22  
Old 04-04-2012, 02:11 AM
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To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure why this is getting so much media attention. People kill people everyday, for prejudiced / crazy reasons all the time. Sure, the fact that Zimmerman has protection from the law is notable, but seriously, there are thousands of unresolved murders.

This is the epitome of sensationalist reporting IMO, nothing more than newspapers to sell subscriptions and TV news agencies to change higher advertising rates.
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  #23  
Old 04-04-2012, 08:52 PM
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I've encountered this news story on every internet forum that I'm a member of.

Personally, I think the kid was the one threatened with that dude trailing him in his vehicle.

Seriously, what kind of idiot would follow a suspicious person at night. That doesn't make sense.
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  #24  
Old 04-04-2012, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Peoples_Champ View Post
To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure why this is getting so much media attention. People kill people everyday, for prejudiced / crazy reasons all the time. Sure, the fact that Zimmerman has protection from the law is notable, but seriously, there are thousands of unresolved murders.

This is the epitome of sensationalist reporting IMO, nothing more than newspapers to sell subscriptions and TV news agencies to change higher advertising rates.
That's a great point and I completely agree. When you combine that with the fact that evidence and facts are still being unearthed, then it is quite puzzling as to why it's getting so much attention, at least compared to the tons of other confirmed hate crimes that take place all the time, as you pointed out. I also fully agree with your second point. It's very sensational reporting, all the way down to the fact that every picture that's been published seems to have been taken when Martin appeared to be 12. Has he really not taken a more recent photo in 5 years? Of course he has, it just sells better to encapsulate him in that light. Very sensational just to draw attention. But it's really not about the reporting of it as much as the selling of it. Sometimes, that's journalism though.
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  #25  
Old 04-05-2012, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Jericho-79 View Post
I've encountered this news story on every internet forum that I'm a member of.

Personally, I think the kid was the one threatened with that dude trailing him in his vehicle.

Seriously, what kind of idiot would follow a suspicious person at night. That doesn't make sense.
That's another problem I have with this story is how nonsensical it really is. Zimmerman said he shot the black kid while the black kid was on top of him. How come he didn't have any blood on him in the surveillance footage?

Canada has a bunch of bullshit, sensationalist stories going on so thankfully I dont have this pushed in my face as much as Americans do. However, I am really tired of sensationalist stories. I tend to get my news from Wikipedia's main page now, it's the only place I can really get good coverage of important stories.
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  #26  
Old 04-05-2012, 02:26 AM
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I found a really great article that depicts this whole ordeal quite perfectly, everyone should check it out:

http://monoblogue.us/2012/03/26/tray...-die-with-him/

I totally agree with the author. I think he makes some great points about the case, and I fully support his final conclusions. But instead of getting into it too much, I'll let you read it.

I really do find it funny that this crime is being called a "hate crime" by a white man on a black kid. When, in reality, Zimmerman, clearly a Peruvian man, is just as ethnic as Martin was. But instead, these facts are easily ignored and swept under the rug so people like Jesse Jackson can scream out from their pulpits about the horrors of hate crimes and racism. Sure, they exist, but it really dilutes your argument if you label anything remotely close to it as such, which is what is being done with this case. It makes Jackson look bad (although that's nothing new, he's pretty much lost all credibility) and makes it harder for people to believe and listen to his views... at least, sane people that is. There's plenty of his followers out there that blindly go along with whatever he's screaming about.
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  #27  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:41 PM
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Ladies and gents, their has been a huge development in the Martin shooting case. The man who shot Martin, George Zimmerman has been arrested and is being charged with second degree murder. Zimmerman plans to stay firm on his position and say that he shot Martin in self-defense. Now Second Degree Murder is a huge felony. Zimmerman could be facing a life sentence in Prison, the minimum is 25 years for using a firearm in the shooting.

Now personally, I was a firm believer that Zimmerman should be tried in court and go through the system accordingly. And that Zimmerman will go through all the legal channels before being convicted or being acquitted. But Second Degree murder seems way too steep to charge Zimmerman. Zimmerman wasn't driving out at night looking for a fight or Martin, he went out to get groceries. As a neighborhood watch captain, Zimmerman made close to 50 calls to the police reporting suspicious behavior. This is clearly a man who is either intent on protecting his neighborhood, or has some paranoia about kids wandering around at night. That is why I believe Zimmerman should be charged with Voluntary Manslaughter instead of Second Degree Murder.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar..._fla_shooting/


Latest questions for you all.

Do you think Zimmer should be charged with Second Degree Murder, or something less steep?

If you were in power, what would you charge Zimmerman?

With all current evidence, how do you think Zimmerman stands in his trial? Will he be convicted, proved not guilty, or acquitted?
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  #28  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:53 PM
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Do you think Zimmer should be charged with Second Degree Murder, or something less steep?

Given what we do know about the case, 2nd degree murder seems appropriate. I am sure that his attorneys will try to plea the charges down to manslaughter, but the 2nd degree charge seems to be the one that fits best.

If you were in power, what would you charge Zimmerman?

2nd Degree murder. It's a month too late, but it's the right charge, given the circumstances, I think.

With all current evidence, how do you think Zimmerman stands in his trial? Will he be convicted, proved not guilty, or acquitted?

This is a tough question. It is going to depend on how successful his attorneys can try to argue about the Stand Your Ground/Castle laws. I have stated before that given the circumstances, I don't believe it applies, but his attorneys are certainly going to claim it does. That's really their only defense here.

Will they convince a jury to buy their argument? If so, then he gets acquitted. (riots will ensue, no doubt encouraged by a certain race baiting asshole with bad hair who always seems to wear tracksuits).

If they are unsuccessful in convincing the jury that Florida's Stand Your Ground/Castle laws apply, its a crapshoot. They could find him guilty of 2nd degree murder, or they might still find him innocent due to other extenuating circumstances. I really have no idea what is going to happen in the courtroom. Juries sometimes are hard to predict.
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  #29  
Old 04-12-2012, 02:47 PM
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Do you think Zimmer should be charged with Second Degree Murder, or something less steep?
As you said earlier, he may have been intent on protecting the neighborhood. He also may have had paranoia regarding past incidents in his neighborhood, which there are documented to have been found.

The problem here though is simple. From all the facts that have been presented thusfar, Martin did nothing to provoke him. As much as Zimmerman wasn't out looking for a fight, the facts that have been presented thusfar show that that Martin wasn't out looking for a fight either. Yet he wound up dead, and Zimmerman unscathed.

I don't know how any other charge, steeper or more leniant, would have been more appropriate.

If you were in power, what would you charge Zimmerman?

With second degree murder. Zimmerman may have thought he was doing his due dillegence, but doing one's due dilligence doesn't always jive with what society, appropriately so in this case, says is right and wrong. Zimmerman had reportedly been told by the coordinator of the particular neighborhood watch program to observe the goings on if he saw criminal activity, and call the police. He chose to ignore those warnings, and a kid was fatally shot. Even if Martin was in the process of breaking the law, Zimmerman was wrong to confront him. His 911 call even indicated that the kid ran away.

How much more clear cut can you get? This is textbook second degree murder.

With all current evidence, how do you think Zimmerman stands in his trial? Will he be convicted, proved not guilty, or acquitted? [/quote]

I don't think this will go to trial, to be honest. I think Zimmerman's attorney's will plead down to a manslaughter charge, and he'll do 5-10 instead of the possible 25 to life that the 2nd degree manslaughter charge carries. If it did go to trial, with the evidence that's on the table currently, he stands no chance of being acquitted whatsoever.

I know I repeated it several times here, but its truly the most important thing. Given what we do know. Zimmerman saw suspicious activity. He did call the police, but pursued Martin who was running away. A confrontation ensued, initiated by Zimmerman, and Martin was killed. This may not have actually been the case, I wasn't there, and Im not here to pass judgment. But the evidence that has been made known to the public shows Zimmerman had choices, could have called the police and stayed away from Martin, and chose not to. The boy's death is on his hands, and he should be punished accordingly. I see no evidence of this being a "Stand Your Ground" case, and I agree with the state attorney's decision.

Zimmerman should take a deal if its offered him, because otherwise, he's going away for life.
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