**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[FarFromFine]

Originally Posted by TWJC: The Beginning

WWe is "defiantly" dying out? So it's putting up a fight? What the fuck are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that it's dying out? Because 80,000 people, 3 records broken, consistently being a top 3 ratings getter, a top viewer/members getter in other mediums, and drawing something like 2,000,000 people a year in live events say otherwise.

The crowd wasn't dead, your brain is. The crowd was HOT for sooooo much of the action. It's an outdoor arena, the sound isn't as quickly heard or as loudly heard at the center because it travels out.

If you have the time to type up all of this about how much it sucked (and you seem to do this regularly) then you should probably stop watching. If it's "defiantly dying" or whatever and you hated what most others think is a pretty good product, maybe it's just not for you? I don't watch Jersey shore, I don't constantly talk about it, it's only an example I use for people like you.

Punk vs Jericho, HHH vs Taker, and Cena vs Rock were all top quality matches in 3 very different ways. The rest of the show was at least average. A solid undercard with 3 top quality matches of a variety of styles is a pretty good show to most wrestling fans. Then again, you aren't a wrestling fan. You're a wannabe smark hipster fuck who likes to bitch about everything because you think it makes you look cool. When in fact, you look lame. Why the fuck would you, if you truly hate it, spend the time to come on these boards and bitch and moan about it?

I'm pretty sure his use of the word "defiantly" was a typo. I'd venture a guess that "what the fuck he's trying to say" is that, in his opinion, wrestling is *definitely dying out. I disagree that wrestling is dying out, I think it's doing just fine, but you come off as a jackoff for ripping someone about a typo and their opinions. Attack the opinion, not the person.

I don't see how you can say the crowd was hot. Other than the boos and cheers when they would trade punches and the false finishes they seemed flat to me. Just looking in the background at them the only times they would stand up was when they were trying to get on TV. The only match I could see you saying they were hot for was HHH/Taker. I even felt they weren't in to Punk/Jericho.

I think it was a solid card. I disagree that Rock/Cena was a solid match. I saw that on the WZ polling the people here voted it as 5 stars. HHH/Taker was 5 stars, this match was nothing close to that. There were 4+ times that the ref had to do the 10 count (3 in the ring and one when rock was outside of the ring after his ribs had hit the announce table) not to mention the bearhug that took forever and numerous other "rest holds". I was watching with two casual fans that agreed that the only good in-ring acting Rock was doing was acting tired... but he only could pull that off because he wasn't acting, he was just blown up. Cena looked fresh at the end, Rock couldn't have gone another 10 minutes. Rock's botch on the early hiptoss was really bad and almost ended with him landing directly on his head.

I'm not a Cena fan and I"m not a Rock fan. I am, however, a wrestling fan. I enjoyed Wrestlemania but I got very bored with the main event. The crowd seemed to die off with the musical performances prior to the entrances and it really was until a false finish that they would momentarily come back.

P.S. When you bitch out a guy because he's bitching ("wannabe smark hipster fuck who likes to bitch about everything because you think it makes you look cool") doesn't that put you in the same category as him?

[Slyfox696]

Originally Posted by FarFromFine

I don't see how you can say the crowd was hot. Other than the boos and cheers when they would trade punches and the false finishes they seemed flat to me. Just looking in the background at them the only times they would stand up was when they were trying to get on TV. The only match I could see you saying they were hot for was HHH/Taker. I even felt they weren't in to Punk/Jericho.

Every year people say the same thing about Wrestlemania, and every year the reason is still the same. Even the wrestlers themselves have explained it.

It's not that the crowd wasn't hot for the show. It's the fact it's being held in a large open stadium, where the crowd noise goes up (and in this case, out) of the stadium. Many wrestlers have pointed out how it seems quiet during the match, but they look up and the crowd is going nuts.

It's just the result of the environment, not a lack of crowd interest.

[Davi323]

Originally Posted by Slyfox696

Every year people say the same thing about Wrestlemania, and every year the reason is still the same. Even the wrestlers themselves have explained it.

It's not that the crowd wasn't hot for the show. It's the fact it's being held in a large open stadium, where the crowd noise goes up (and in this case, out) of the stadium. Many wrestlers have pointed out how it seems quiet during the match, but they look up and the crowd is going nuts.

It's just the result of the environment, not a lack of crowd interest.

Exactly. It's really not complicated, it's a simple case of acoustics. What Sly just described is called SCIENCE. It's the same reason that Michigan Stadium sounds so quiet despite having 111,000 people in attendance. The shape of the stadium draws sound away from the center of it and out towards the open sky. When events are held indoors, the sound has nowhere to go and ends up reverberating through the rafters and then back down to the crowds, of course it sounds louder.

It is true that football games sound louder than wrestling events outdoors, but that is because cameras filming football games are in the crowds for the most part...other than that camera on the cable that stretches across the stadium, NFL/NCAA cameras are farther away from the center, closer to the source of the crowd noise. At a wrestling event, the cameras are generally at the center of the field near the mat, thus are positioned the farthest away from the crowd noise.

[slice_of_life]

I really don't think the whole "Rock's hometown" thing is a valid point. It sounds good on the surface, but think about it, it could have been in Boston and the crowd still would have been notoriously pro-Rock. It has happened at every arena in the past two months.

I think it's really horrible what the WWE did to Cena. He loses at WM27 because of Rock. Gets Rockbottomed by him at SS. And now loses this match. The Rock had nothing to gain but Cena had everything to lose. I think it's really sick that someone can give as much of themselves to a company as Cena has and be rewarded like this.

Whether you are ok, angry or neutral with the Rock's decision to go make movies, the bottom line is this: the Rock left. Cena didn't.

I lost a lot of respect for Vince McMahon last night.

[D-Will316]

In your opinion what was John Cena's most important match?
The match that really got him in the position he's in now. I added The Rock to the list even though it's a little premature.
I'm gonna say his match with Triple H at WM 22. I think the fact that HHH put him over and the crowd was 70%(sorta) against Cena says alot.
How about you guys?

[AwesomeRko]

Originally Posted by slice_of_life

I really don't think the whole "Rock's hometown" thing is a valid point. It sounds good on the surface, but think about it, it could have been in Boston and the crowd still would have been notoriously pro-Rock. It has happened at every arena in the past two months.

I think it's really horrible what the WWE did to Cena. He loses at WM27 because of Rock. Gets Rockbottomed by him at SS. And now loses this match. The Rock had nothing to gain but Cena had everything to lose. I think it's really sick that someone can give as much of themselves to a company as Cena has and be rewarded like this.

Whether you are ok, angry or neutral with the Rock's decision to go make movies, the bottom line is this: the Rock left. Cena didn't.

I lost a lot of respect for Vince McMahon last night.

Cena has been the top guy and face of the company for around eight years in that time hes has beaten such luminaries from the Attitude era as HHH, Y2J, Angle, HBK and Edge. He did not need a win over Rock to validate him or his crednetials as the top guy in the company in any way.

It's ok for him to lose a match, in fact its actually refreshing saying as to the best of my knowledge it has been nearly 4 years since he lost a match clean. He already goes over pretty much everyone he wrestles and the past two years aside has an outstanding Wrestlemania record, having also lost sneakily to Orton in a triple threat. He already has a better win/loss record at mania than legends like Rock and HBK who are testament to the fact that you do not have to win every match to be the best.

The result was 100% the right one, it makes Rock look strong in his continued involvement within the WWE and gave the majority of viewers ad fans in the stadium what they wanted. It provided a mania moment which will be remembered forever and was the pefect exclamation point on a terrific match.

As far as Cena goes the loss may actually have earned the respect of some of the haters who would have resented him even more had he have won. It also creates the opportunity to add some freshness to his charcter and a degree more vulnerability perhaps putting the super-Cena thing to bed. Cena has been stale for a while and this provides the perfect catalyst for change, I'm don't think something as radical as a full-blown heel turn will happen but a bit of tweaking would be nice.

[The Talon]

Apparently, the storyline going into RAW tonight is that John Cena isn't there at all & everyone's trying to find him. This leaves no doubt into my mind that WWE's definitely setting up a heel turn storyline for Cena. Whether or not they actually move on with a three-match series for Cena/Rock is anyone's guess though.

[AnvilForever]

Originally Posted by The Talon

Apparently, the storyline going into RAW tonight is that John Cena isn't there at all & everyone's trying to find him. This leaves no doubt into my mind that WWE's definitely setting up a heel turn storyline for Cena. Whether or not they actually move on with a three-match series for Cena/Rock is anyone's guess though.

I'm really not sure about that. I know some people don't want it to be brought up, but why would they give Cena a new Boston Celtics/Starbucks Coffee shirt if they were going to turn him heel? Doesn't make sense to me.

That said, I am glad that they are taking this path, whether or not it leads to a heel turn. Cena said before that if he lost to the Rock, then he "would lose everything." Well...he lost, and the way he lost was really well done. He had the Rock right where he wanted, he got cocky and tried to pull a show stealer, and he paid the ultimate price. The Rock beat John Cena, and more importantly, John Cena beat John Cena. I hope that this starts a storyline that shows Cena starting to question his abilities and his legacy.

Still, we were all teased with character development/heel turn for Cena during his feud with Kane, and all we got was a crappy storyline and a reassertion of the status quo, so I'm not letting my expectations get too high.

[xavyer]

I agree, ok, the match against JBL was important because that's when he became WWE champion for the first time, but with Triple H, that match cemented his career, he defeated the biggest superstar the WWE had at the time, and obiously that's the match that gave him a lot of recognition.......

[CleverName51]

I voted HBK, he beat Mr Wrestlemania at Wrestlemania and then when 1 hour with him a few weeks later.

That match, cemented Cena as a top guy, and not a short term solution after Brock Lesnar left