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  #11  
Old 03-28-2012, 11:38 AM
shauner111 shauner111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by President Evil View Post
I guess what I was trying to say is that WM 23 was the last of the Attitude/Aggression era, which was a great time for me. By the time WM 24 rolled in, there was a feeling of things changing, by WM 25, WWE was full blown PG and it was gaining a younger audience and alienating alot of fans from the previous generation. But I understand the reason they had to make these changes.
Attitude? lol buddy that era ended in 2001. Aggression? ya maybe. PG started in 2008 OFFICIALLY but they were hinting at it in 06/07 with a more childish dx, hornswoggle, spirit squad, etc.

Now, Mania 23 IMO was not a very good Wrestlemania. Actually i think it might have been one of the worst. It was certainly better than 24, 25, 26 and 27...even though some of the matches from 26 looked good on paper. Of course the execution was horrible. (EDIT: i just went over some clips from the last several and i gotta say 22 thru 27 are all extremely average, probably same level. Pretty sure 28 is gonna break that and become one of the best in almost a decade)

For me, 21 was the last solid Mania that we got. And i mean solid at best. 18 and 19 were the last GREAT ones. And thats only when the "aggression" era was beginning NOT ending like in 2007

Last edited by shauner111 : 03-28-2012 at 11:50 AM.
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  #12  
Old 03-28-2012, 11:47 AM
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I'm not buying it. Too often back in those days wrestling was seen as "dead" or in a "very sad state right now". And nearly every wrestlemania these last couple of years ends with "the worst WM of all time?". It gets really old. With WWE now being as PG-orientated as it is, now people aren't being appreciative of those days eh?

My theory on why people make threads like these is because when they watch things of the past -- there's less thinking, nit picking, and expectations. Instead, you're able to relax and view things objectively. Thus, why some people tend to miss WWE programming from like 3 years ago when infact you back to those 3 years and people will miss the programming from the 3 years prior to that. This is nothing new.

WM 23 in particular, aside from the main event, doesn't really stand out to me in memory. I can recall the MITB match and its display of some excellent spot plays, but not much else. I was extraordinarily pissed Michaels lost, but again, it was due to the fact that WWE did not meet my personal expectations. I'm sure if I rewatch it today I'd be more appreciative and enjoy it a ton

I think that is why wrestling fans are always so nostalgic and claiming things changed at a certain time.
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  #13  
Old 03-28-2012, 12:06 PM
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Fans were dissapointed just as much back in 2006 and 2007 as they were last year..and not just about the wrestlemanias, about the entire product. It started in the spring/summer of 2002 everybody starting hating on the product cuz it started to decline. And for me at least, it had nothing to do with reading forums and just hating on it cuz its not attitude & not the cool thing to watch anymore. I naturally stopped enjoying it. I look back at 2002 and 2003 and realize the company has been so poor (ESPECIALLY at executing a proper Mania) that it makes those 2 years look fantastic.

I can appreciate Mania moments from 20 and 21 that i overlooked back then, but anything from 22 to last year was just horrendous. The only thing that kept me watching were the series of TAKER/HBK matches.

You shouldn't be too nostalgic tho because it's 2012 and we're starting a new more reality based era that could still exist in PG land. The brand extension is pretty much done, i have a feeling in a year or so they may unify the 2 world titles, all the greats from the last couple eras are retiring. And this is why the next few Manias could be the best in YEARS.

President Evil, if u feel a connection to Wrestlemania 23 then cool. But i just dont agree it was the last great one..far from it. I can guarantee that 28 will at least be the best since 21. And this new era will bring an even better Mania for next year and of course WM 30. Beyond that, who knows
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  #14  
Old 03-28-2012, 01:03 PM
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WM 23 sucked ass! Very few matches were even good, never mind memorable. The atmosphere was completely cut to pieces by those ridiculous "All Grown Up" promos, which were just plain annoying. The atrocious Hair vs Hair match was a joke and featured 2 preformers who had never been to the big dance before and were nowhere near ready for it. The in-match drama was fine, but when a hairdo is all thats on the line its hard to give a crap what happens. Undertaker/Batista was mediocre and forgettable. Kane/Khali? Who cares? Michaels/Cena had an awful, pointless build and having one of the greatest of all time lose to John "Poster Boy" Cena was a disgrace. WM 23 had potential but was just an over-hyped egotistical failure.
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  #15  
Old 03-28-2012, 03:58 PM
ilapierre ilapierre is offline
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Skimming this thread I notice a lot of posters aren't getting the point of the thread. I think the OP is trying to say that Wrestlemania 23 was the last Wrestlemania to have that amazing energy that was around for the first 23 wrestlemanias. When you go back to watch #23, it's not that it was a great Wrestlemania. It was average. But the crowd energy, the anticipation, the dark lighting during the match made you feel deep down that it was important and actually meant something. It was a larger than life aura.

I also think the OP was trying to draw a connection to that and the darkness of the Benoit tragedy. He wasn't trying to say that there are no dark angles anymore or that fans didn't enjoy the dark Triple H vs Orton feud. Wrestlemania 23 had a different feel from the stuff that followed yet wrestling moved away from 'edgy' programming before #23. Besides a few epic WM matches, I last noticed that consistent amazing 'energy' or fan 'anticipation' at Wrestlemania 20. The OP last noticed it at #23. A lot of the diehards here noticed it last year at the conclusion of the Cena/Miz match. It's all really subjective. I personally didn't find #23 that amazing or that terrible. It was just average, not all that memorable. I know I liked #24 and I believe #26 quite a bit better. Last year's was by far my least favourite Wrestlemania but this year's is starting to look like the best one in the past 9 years. For me, Wrestlemania 18 or 19 were the last truly great Wrestlemanias. I am really hoping that this year's will be comparable to those two and nothing like 27. Still, we have the same Rock vs Cena feud and Trips vs Taker. But there's been a 14 month buildup of those matches. After this year's show, we may all look back on #27 in a different light as it set the way for #28. Just like how #4 with Macho Man winning set the way for #5 vs Hogan or #9 with Hitman losing set the way for #10 with Hitman having his big Wrestlemania moment.

There was one poster here who said that the last 5 wrestlemanias have all been great because it built up the Taker streak to the point its at now. That's not very rational reasoning. It is if all you give a shit about is a streak that's obviously gonna continue until WWE puts together a solid roster who can sell Wrestlemania without any extra help. I personally really enjoyed the last 5 Taker WM matches but those matches and buildups couldn't save the rest of the cards. Besides one or two epic matches always involving Shawn or Taker, Wrestlemanias 23 to 27 have been, for me, a bit underwhelming to say the least.

Last edited by ilapierre : 03-28-2012 at 04:02 PM.
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  #16  
Old 03-28-2012, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nev View Post
I'm not buying it. Too often back in those days wrestling was seen as "dead" or in a "very sad state right now". And nearly every wrestlemania these last couple of years ends with "the worst WM of all time?". It gets really old. With WWE now being as PG-orientated as it is, now people aren't being appreciative of those days eh?

My theory on why people make threads like these is because when they watch things of the past -- there's less thinking, nit picking, and expectations. Instead, you're able to relax and view things objectively. Thus, why some people tend to miss WWE programming from like 3 years ago when infact you back to those 3 years and people will miss the programming from the 3 years prior to that. This is nothing new.

WM 23 in particular, aside from the main event, doesn't really stand out to me in memory. I can recall the MITB match and its display of some excellent spot plays, but not much else. I was extraordinarily pissed Michaels lost, but again, it was due to the fact that WWE did not meet my personal expectations. I'm sure if I rewatch it today I'd be more appreciative and enjoy it a ton

I think that is why wrestling fans are always so nostalgic and claiming things changed at a certain time.
OMG!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers this! I remember when I use to read comments about Wrestlemania 22-25 like the day after the events and all I read was people slagging off WWE and calling it "The worst ever" and how WWE "would be out of business" etc. These comments literally use to go round for the whole year including people saying how they missed the Attitude era and hated the current (Ruthless Aggression) era.

Yet now I get confused when I read comments about the Ruthless Aggression era and the Wrestlemanias it held because I mostly read of how people say it was "The best ever"/"Now the PG era sucks!"/"I miss 2007"
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  #17  
Old 03-28-2012, 06:25 PM
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WrestleMania 23 was awesome, but the last "great" WrestleMania was 24; the only problem with the event was when the lights went out during the Diva's match. From a wrestling stand point the event delivered big time.

25, 26 & 27 main fault was due to poor time management. I believe WWE tried to sell both 25 & 26 on Undertaker/Shawn with Orton/HHH and Hart/Mcmahon being the other long term feuds heading to shows and then work around the card.
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  #18  
Old 03-28-2012, 06:32 PM
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Wrestlemania 23 did have that big feel. I also feel Wrestlemania 24/25 had the big wrestlemania feel aas well. I stopped watched weekly programming so I dont have the most accurate opinion. WM25 had the feel but certainly didnt deliver outside of Taker/HBK

This years build has been great. I love that they annouced Rock/Cena a year ago. I miss the days of feuds lasting months at a time. I feel were coming back around to that point in wrestling
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  #19  
Old 03-28-2012, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheamusRocks View Post
WM 23 sucked ass! Very few matches were even good, never mind memorable. The atmosphere was completely cut to pieces by those ridiculous "All Grown Up" promos, which were just plain annoying. The atrocious Hair vs Hair match was a joke and featured 2 preformers who had never been to the big dance before and were nowhere near ready for it. The in-match drama was fine, but when a hairdo is all thats on the line its hard to give a crap what happens. Undertaker/Batista was mediocre and forgettable. Kane/Khali? Who cares? Michaels/Cena had an awful, pointless build and having one of the greatest of all time lose to John "Poster Boy" Cena was a disgrace. WM 23 had potential but was just an over-hyped egotistical failure.
Aside from your comment about Kane vs. Khali, I disagree with everything you said. Taker vs. Batista was one of the best matches of the year, and undoubtedly the best that Batista ever had. To say it was "mediocre and forgettable" makes me question you tastes. And you couldn't be more wrong about Michaels-Cena. So what if HBK lost; HBK lost A LOT at WrestleMania. Don't let your idiotic hate for John Cena to cloud your judgment. Michaels-Cena was excellent.

I think I agree with the OP on this, somewhat. The last WrestleMania I got that "WrestleMania feel" from was 23. Since then, I've looked forward to the event, but I haven't got that feeling in my stomach about Mania that I used to get. That said, I have that feeling this year and I think this year could be the best Mania since 23 and it could join III, X, XII, X-7, X-8 and XIX in the GOAT discussion.
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  #20  
Old 03-28-2012, 09:54 PM
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I disagree, I believe wrestlemania 24 was better than wrestlemania 23, we had ric flairs last match in the wwe which was a great match, we had a surprisingly good match between JBL and Finlay, we had a good money in the bank and a jump start for CM Punk, we had batista vs. Umaga which was ok I don't remember it being bad really, we had Floyd vs. Bigshow which... did it's purpose lol, we had one of the best matches of all time.!.... Kane vs. Chavo in an 8 second match lol (I was a kane mark and I loved how he won so fast.!) we had john cena vs, triple h vs. randy orton which was the last good mania match with orton in my opinion and then we had undertaker vs. edge which was great match for a great feud. That card was pretty much stacked and I enjoyed it alot, 25 was ok and then after that I just haven't enjoyed the pay per view, so much to where I'm expecting this to be bad, and i'm only doin that so if it's actually good I can feel happy. But 23 was not the last good one in my opinion.
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