LaBar: 'The Icon' Sting "Isn't an Icon in Pro Wrestling; Needs WWE to Be Considered"

[IT Factor]

Road Warrior Animal is just brown-nosing WWE to try and get a job again. Anyone who looks at Sting's career from NWA, WCW, and TNA can honestly say Sting is indeed an "icon". Show me one wrestling fan who doesn't know Sting and I'll show you a liar. Sting is recognized as an icon because of everything he contributed to the sport of pro wrestling over the years.

I respect Sting's decision not to join WWE. If you objectively view WWE's history of using former WCW stars, it's not pretty. Just about every former WCW star wasn't used or at least not to their fullest potential. Booker T, Kevin Nash, and Hulk Hogan are perhaps the biggest exceptions to that. Aside from them, maybe Guerrero, Mysterio, and Jericho. But even then, those guys had to be stuck in mid-card obscurity for years before finally breaking the glass ceiling into the main events. Sting is smart to notice this trend and think he'd be used the same or maybe worse. WWE is known for punishing people who don't toe the company line. Even though it'd be cool to see matches like Taker/Sting or others, it's not needed for Sting's career to make him a hall-of-famer. He'll eventually be in it whether or not he ever steps foot into a WWE ring or not.

[Jack-Hammer]

Man's entitled to his opinion and all but, to me, it's just this sort of statement that really destroys whatever sort of credibility of dirtsheet writers. Steve Borden, AKA Sting, is one of the biggest stars in wrestling history. Most of the guys Sting was in the business with back when he was a young man are either out of wrestling altogether, irrelevant, walking embarassments, never had his talent or some combination of any or all of the above. Sting, on the other hand, is still not only relevant but he's also still a big star. When you look at things overall, aside from Kurt Angle, Sting is the biggest and most respected guy that's ever been through TNA.

I'll be the first to agree that Sting isn't what he used to be inside the ring. At 52 or 53 years of age, who the hell is? But he's still relevant and still gets people tuning into see what he does. Even though I'm personally not really into him all that much these days, I'd deserved to be justifiably laughed at and ridiculed if I tried to seriously declare that sting isn't a true icon and legend in pro wrestling history. Couple his longevity with the fact that he's had the feuds, he's had the matches and he's had the title reigns, how can he not be looked at as an icon?

[LittleJimmy]

Originally Posted by Schwing

It wasn't my argument... As my full post said, I was clearing it up for another poster who had only speculated. Further posts in this prove Google to be immaterial as the America Google page somebody posted earlier has Steve Borden first. The UK Google page shows Sting the musician. I used the UK version. If I might play devil's advocate again, this could be used to fan both flames.

For the argument that Google has no relevance in this debate; Google changes depending on who makes the search and where the search is made from.

For the opposing side; If the UK gets the musician first on a Sting search but gets Austin and The Rock first time then that means that Stone Cold and The Rock have a wider international reach than Sting does.

It also could mean that we're fortunate enough to have a singer from England called Sting... OF COURSE HE'D BE FIRST OVER HERE. Germany will probably get the wrestler.

I never even mentioned the fact that he was never in WWF/E and as for coming up with better points... just read the rest of my post. It's full of them. I'll repeat the most important bits. Icon's have to be known by everyone. Fan and Non Fan alike. Why does it even matter?

You are right, I did misread what you but while you stated it was "immaterial" you also stated it strengthened the argument against Sting.

Now, one to the only other point you made in your first post (while you did have a lot of examples it still was only 1 point), whether or not an average person knows who Sting is doesnt matter. We are speaking in terms of the world of pro wrestling, not pop culture. I can argue that since his epic worked shoot last summer and his twitter battles with Chris Brown and Shawn Merriman that CM Punk is more well known by the mainstream than The Undertaker or even Ric Flair. Does that mean Punk is better? HELL NO!!

[FitFinlay4Life]

Excuse my laziness but I felt it made a good enough counter in Mr LaBar's controversial post and I think it'll do the same here...

Me:

Most wins of PWI's Most Popular Wrestler? Sting (with 4 over Dusty, Hulk, HBK & Cena with 3)

Most appearances in the PWI Most Popular? Sting (13)

Names that define... WWWF? Sammartino; WWF? Hogan; Attitude? Austin; WWe? Cena; NWA? Flair; WCW? Sting

Wrestling's most famous feuds of the last quarter century? I defy anyone to leave out Sting versus Flair and the Four Hoursemen or Sting versus Hogan and the nWo.

The dominant storyline of WCW's 84 week dominance of the Monday Night Wars? The descent of Sting from surfer dude to become the nWo's worst nightmare.

The reason TNA has a television contract with Spike? Sting

The most famous wrestler never to lace them up for the WWe? Sting

Think I'll go with that being Iconic even without the WWF/e or crossing over into mainstream media (plus point, he's never appeared in a tutu).

On the Google kerfuffle, first off to clarify something...

Originally Posted by Schwing

It wasn't my argument... As my full post said, I was clearing it up for another poster who had only speculated. Further posts in this prove Google to be immaterial as the America Google page somebody posted earlier has Steve Borden first. The UK Google page shows Sting the musician. I used the UK version. If I might play devil's advocate again, this could be used to fan both flames.

For the argument that Google has no relevance in this debate; Google changes depending on who makes the search and where the search is made from.

For the opposing side; If the UK gets the musician first on a Sting search but gets Austin and The Rock first time then that means that Stone Cold and The Rock have a wider international reach than Sting does.

It also could mean that we're fortunate enough to have a singer from England called Sting... OF COURSE HE'D BE FIRST OVER HERE. Germany will probably get the wrestler.

I never even mentioned the fact that he was never in WWF/E and as for coming up with better points... just read the rest of my post. It's full of them. I'll repeat the most important bits. Icon's have to be known by everyone. Fan and Non Fan alike. Why does it even matter?

I believe this is what you are referring too...

Originally Posted by Great White Sam

Oh, and for the record:

Young Master Sam is just as British as you and I.

Secondly (and on topic), music is bigger than wrestling, people will get Gordon Sumner ahead of Steve Borden because everyone in the civilized World has heard a Police / Sting song. This Sting is a big enough icon in his field to have appeared at the halftime show at the SuperBowl...

I think music is a good argument for Sting's Icon status though, quick test - name as many musical icons as you can (I'll wait)... .... .... .... Still going? Okay... ... ... ... That'll do, I do have a bed to go to If we can name many many many musical icons, then why can't we have more than two (Hogan & Austin) or four (Mr LaBar's Mount Rushmore) in wrestling?

[New Hot Fed]

Originally Posted by BiGEViL

Sting will never be an icon. Sting was an legend in WCW/NWA/TNA, but that is as far as it will ever go. When people think icon, they think large, big, lots of money, fame, fortune, success, big matches...but most of all, they think WWE.

For instance, the Rock is an icon, but the Rock never wrestled for WCW/NWA. Why is he still an icon? Because he DID wrestle in WWE. Sting is a legend. He will always be a legend, but Sting's legacy will be left in TNA, as a failed attempt to save save the sinking ship that is TNA.

He could have worked so many programs in WWE. So many storylines and angles and characters. He didn't, he chose his morale highroad, and you know what? That's okay, because he did what was in his heart, and he never "sold out". I'm sure he's fine with that. Sting is one of the legit good guys, and stood up for what he believed in.

I hate TNA with a passion, so the fact Sting is there, irritates me to death. I mean, I grew up on watching Sting in NWA/WCW and he had tons of great programs: vs Flair, taking on The Horsemen 1 by 1, teaming with The Road Warriors vs The Russians, Teaming with The Bulldog, becoming a Horseman, vs The Great Muta (my favorite), vs Cactus Jack, Lord Steven Regal, Vader, etc. I went to so many Starrcades and Clash of the Champions JUST to see Sting.

I've always cheered for and admired Sting. I don't watch TNA, even Sting can't change that. I gave it a chance, I watched, purchased ppv's went to a few shows, but nope. Didn't work. I hate their product (not their wrestlers). I hated it when they tried to force that stupid 6-sided ring down our throat, or those stupid ropes above the ring. I hate the fact they repeated the SAME mistakes that ruined WCW by bringing in Hogan, Bischoff, Russo and gave them the power.

As much as I hate TNA and the fact Sting works for them, I respect his decision to not make the jump. Why? Because he did something very important by honoring his word, he did what he needed to do to be Sting: He remained true to himself, his morals and his word. If he had jumped ship, I would have been ELATED to see him in WWE and watch his stuff, follow his angles, etc...but I wouldn't have respected him 1/2 as much as I do now. So no, he's not an icon. At least not to me...a 30 year wrestling viewer, he's something more important than just being an "Icon", he's a Real Man that honors his word because it's what he feels is right. Kudos Stinger!!! I'm proud of ya!

Anyway...that's my two cents.

Wrong The Rock is not and never will be an Icon. Now Rock is a bigger star than Sting but Rock is not an Icon while Sting is. It's about longivity, what they meant for the business, etc...Sting is more like Taker.

[TWJC: The Beginning]

People know who Sting is. He's not on the level of Hogan, Flair, Rock, Austin, or Cena, but he's definately up there with HBK, Hart, and Triple H in the second tier.

this is a ridiculous thing to say, his NFL analogy sucks. What if you had a guy who was so awesome at arena football that for almost 2 years, the NFL was tanking and Arena football was kicking their asses? That guy would be a fuckin legend.

Sting, every bit as much as Goldberg (probably more really), and every bit as much as the nWo, made WCW what it became. Without that great good guy to root for, the nWo doesn't work. They turn into Michael Cole or the Yankees in the 50s, a super heel without a worthy opponent.

Sting is most definately an icon. If WCW is managed by people who realize wrestling is entertainment and not by people who just want to beat Vince, WCW is still afloat right now and WWE doesn't exist. Has nothing to do with Sting. Sting is the reason I can say "if it were better managed". Sting isn't the reason WCW failed. Sting is the reason it was so successful. In the early 90s when Flair left, Sting was basically THE draw.

Sting is to WCW what Undertaker is to the WWE. If WWE folded then is Undertaker the one who's not a legend? No, a legend/icon/whatever is always that.

BTW, the google thing that brings up searches I'm pretty sure looks at popular searches in your area. For example, there is a "Springfield" in almost all states. When I google "springfield" I get a bunch of shit on the city of springfield, MO, springfield, MO restaurants, etc. It's because I live in springfield, MO. Not springfield, IL, or Springfield, MA. So using the google search thing is pretty dumb, it'll change based on your address.

For the record, my google search of "sting" is first the musician and then the wrestler's wiki. For "The Rock" all the pages are for "Dwayne Johnson". "Hulk" is stuff on the comic.

[Uncle Sam]

To clear up the Google issue, Luna pointed out in my rep that Sting the wrestler likely appears above Sting the musician on my Google because I have Google Chrome. She didn't go into further detail about it. I can only assume that Chrome has some sort of wonderful privacy-invading feature that learns what topics I'm interested in, or maybe I simply search for Steve Borden more often than I do that music twat.

Still, it's a non-issue and non-argument.

[d_henderson1810]

Originally Posted by BeeCeeGee

Then what about the NWO? WCW's concept
Then what about the 4-H? Again, not WWF product
Who gave HHH, Austin, Undertaker - among others their start? WCW/NWA

The problem is that Labar claims Stinger needed to step on the WWE platform...

WHY?

He said yesterday his Mt. Rushmore would be Hogan, Vince, Andre and Austin...

Really? Andre over Flair? He was big and he wrestled 1 WM match...

Mike Tyson was in WM, so was Pete Rose... are they then ICONS?

read this and you will see all you need to ...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-be-considered IT IS THE REBUTTAL to LABAR

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Are you saying that Andre only wrestled one WM match? Because if so, you are a moron- he wrestled 6 WMs.

WM 1- Bodyslam challenge against "Big" John Studd

WM2- Won WWF v NFL Battle Royal

WM3- Hulk Hogan v Andre The Giant

WM4- Hulk Hogan v Andre The Giant (WWF World Title Tournament QF)

WM5- Andre The Giant v Jake "The Snake" Roberts (Ref:- "Big" John Studd)

WM6- Andre & Haku (Colossal Connection) v Demolition (WWF World Tag-Team Title Match)
(After this match, Andre turned face).

If you are going to put down Andre The Giant's legacy, at least get your facts right. Loser!