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  #11  
Old 03-07-2012, 12:27 AM
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Make no mistake about it, as others have said, Heyman was a genius for what he did with ECW, whether you loved the product or hated it. He knew exactly what to do to counteract what WCW and WWE were doing at the time. That is what Heyman was always good at, counteracting the competition to offer an alternative. He can't really do that in the WWE now...there is no alternative.

TNA is the closest thing to competition WWE has, and there really is no need to try and sway viewership away from them, or counteract their product.

Heyman also loves to use risque and envelope pushing to its fullest. You can't do that at this point in the PG Era. The fact that WWE is letting Rock and Cena drop the word 'bitch' on a weekly basis is surprising enough.

If anything, TNA should have pulled the trigger on hiring Heyman years ago when he was still remotely interested in working for them. Beyond that, I think his time in pro wrestling has come and gone.
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2012, 09:17 AM
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While I think Heyman revolutionized wrestling when ECW became "extreme," I agree with a lot of the other posters here that his time in the industry has passed. I watched him though most of his career, and I enjoyed a lot of what he did. However, pro wrestling continues to evolve in many ways (not all, but many), and Heyman's style just isn't the direction WWE is heading.

Yes, he brought the grit back to pro wrestling after the camp and over-the-top bombast of the 80s was starting to run its course. ECW paved the way for the WWE's Attitude Era, which alone gives what he did during that time merit. Now, WWE is in PG mode (well, maybe not after Rock/Cena's "bitch" fest as of late), and Heyman's style was always PG-13 and up.

Yes, during his run as a head writer in WWF/E, he had some really crappy programs. I actually liked him as an on-screen character, even back to the old Paul E. Dangerously days. I'd like him to come back just as a true heel color commentator, since WWE can't seem to establish one anymore w/Cole being so annoying in trying to be the only heelish announcer.

And, like what was said earlier, he's much more into ultimate fighting now and is pretty busy with his Heyman Hustle, so I just don't see him coming back. What's in it for him? He wouldn't be head of creative because Stephanie's in that role now. If he's not in charge, I don't see why he'd come back. Yes, his ego is bigger than it should be, but that's just how he is.

Maybe if Brock Lesnar comes back, he'll tag along. But I see both as highly unlikely.

Move along, people. Move along.
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'd Wear Pippa Middleton Like A Feedbag View Post
So let me get this straight, you want me to give him credit for all the good he did, yet exonerate him from all the bad stuff, saying that it's Vince and Steph's fault?
No I want you to give him equal credit for the good stuff he as well as the bad stuff. Unlike what you are doing.

Or at the very least, admit you have no idea which parts were his and acknowledge that the show was simply better when he ran it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by I'd Wear Pippa Middleton Like A Feedbag View Post
Also, fine, let's take away everything bad from Heyman's run on Smackdown. What wow'ed you about his run on ECW that made you think this man must be writing Smackdown again? Did the Big Show as ECW champion enthrall you that much?
I assume you meant nu-ECW and not old ECW. Old ECW should be self-explanatory. New ECW was terrible and everyone knows why, none of which has to do with Heyman, as has been documented everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I'd Wear Pippa Middleton Like A Feedbag View Post
Heyman is nowhere near the Booker anyone thinks he is. His stuff ran it's course in 2000, and was smoke and mirrored by the fact that he had Angle, Lesnar, Benoit, and Guerrero to have twenty minutes matches, so his drivel writing wouldn't plague my screen
Sounds like you've got some kind of personal bias against the man. Drivel? Heyman "ran his course in 2000" because he hasn't really done much since then or been interested in doing so. This is all speculation anyway.
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2012, 11:09 AM
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Heyman has proven his booking skills in Ohio Valley Wrestling when he was sent there after One Night Stand 2005. They were jammin under his direction. They were drawing bigger crowds that were much more fired up about the promotion.

His time in the ECW as the booker was underrated in my opinion. He took a bunch of guys that had little to zero talent, too short, too skinny, no good on the mic, no good on the mat, and turned them into an integral part of the show. If you can get guys like Balls Mahoney, and Hack Myers(the Hacksaw Jim Duggans of ECW history) over as they were, you are doing something right with the booking. Heyman was just so in tune with his crowds. What better way to get talentless bums like Balls Mahoney and Axle Rotten over than by putting Pantera shirts on them! Who doesn't love a guy in a Pantera shirt! Probobly guys that didn't like ECW anyways.

Heyman's Taz mma character was unbelievable in the original ECW from late 95 to 98. One of my favorite characters in pro wrestling history, mainly because of the way he was booked. They built him up into this legit fighting monster who couldn't be beat, but he still managed to keep the crowd in love with him(as opposed to the way fans started to turn on Goldberg before the end of 98). What better way to end an undefeated streak than by putting the man through the fucking ring!

Heyman didn't have much to work with in the ECW roster. Guys were always coming and going, and Heyman always did a good job of working with what he had to put on a show the fans would still love. His booking skills can not be denied.

Heyman > Stephanie Mcmahon, and Vince Russo(or whoever is running TNA now).

I would love to see what Heyman could to with a modern wrestling promotion in this day and age. I think you could do a new promotion aimed towards the adult "Smart Mark" 18-35 demographic with a guy like Heyman in charge of creative, and it would be a success. There is a pretty big crowd of people in between MMA, and what the WWE is doing right now that desperately want to be entertained.

Last edited by ShinobiMusashi : 03-07-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiverseman.com View Post
Whose idea was it to focus on the wrestling? Fact is, things were good so when things go well, you can thank the head guy. You certainly gave him credit for the bad stuff.
What people also forget at that time was that Smackdown! during Heyman's reign was not only great because of the Wrestling but they had good stories as well. While RAW was having some of the worst stories out there like HLA, Kane being a murderer, a recycling of the Unamericans, Smackdown! never had to go too the extreme (no pun intended) to tell an effective feud.

Take Undertaker and Lesnar's feud for instance, the hook to it was Sara but she was more of a bait than the actual focal point. It created a vulnerable Undertaker and told a story of Lesnar capitalizing on it.

Then you had the Heel vs Heel Benoit vs. Angle feud. I tell you it's not easy to do a feud with two heels involved, but it worked for these two and created an interesting story where both were rivals but having to become tag team partners.

These were the main examples but there were more. But it goes to show that Heyman's Smackdown! was not only a product of 5 star Wrestling but also telling effective stories to build these great matches.
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  #16  
Old 03-07-2012, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiverseman.com View Post



I assume you meant nu-ECW and not old ECW. Old ECW should be self-explanatory. New ECW was terrible and everyone knows why, none of which has to do with Heyman, as has been documented everywhere.



Sounds like you've got some kind of personal bias against the man. Drivel? Heyman "ran his course in 2000" because he hasn't really done much since then or been interested in doing so. This is all speculation anyway.
Fine. Let's just say, for argument's sake, that the bad shit has been Vince's fault, and that Paul Heyman should be judged by his run in the original ECW. I'll go ahead and ignore Paul's role in, and say it all falls on Vince.

What would be the difference this go-round? What will be so different, that Vince will allow Paul complete control over the company, and run those fabulous ideas you believe he has. Paul will always have Vince over his shoulder; even when he's gone, Stephanie and Hunter will be there, watching Heyman like a hawk eyes a fat, fat quail. If Paul is brought back, he's not coming back with carte blanche, ready to do everything he wants.

No, he's coming back to the exact same environment he left in the first place.
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2012, 11:53 PM
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Paul Heyman is a wrestling genius. There is no credible argument that can be made against that. I don't think the McMahon family particularly cares for him, nor do I think his writing could fit the PG era. That being said, the WWE is in an incredibly terrible place when it comes to their writing/booking. I would drop to my knees and thank the lord if Paul Heyman ever did take over because right now the E's creative team is looking like it's made up of Vince Russo's relatives.
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