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  #11  
Old 07-24-2011, 12:22 PM
Sinister Shadows Sinister Shadows is offline
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I feel for those left behind by someone who dies from drugs. The people who lost loved ones because of that person's selfishness. But I can't bring myself to feel sorry for someone who kills themselves with drugs. I really can't see it any different than suicide. It's a personal choice to keep putting the needle in one's arm, snorting lines... etc.

"Oh well drug addiction is a disease, they couldn't help it" - The biggest cop out phrase/excuse ever. This statement always makes me laugh, because people can help it, if someone really wants to quit drugs, they will, it's that simple. I've been around addiction my entire life, I've seen people die because of it, I've seen people get themselves clean.

I'll probably get red rep for this post (I always do on this topic).


If the person would have just burned down their house intentionally instead of killing themselves with a drug OD, would you feel sorry for the person losing everything? Because I wouldn't.
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  #12  
Old 07-24-2011, 12:37 PM
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Becca's got it right. I'm not like, glad that she's dead or whatever. But it's not like she didn't know the consequences of taking drugs. This is the same woman who took a cocktail of cocaine, ecstacy, heroin, and keta-fucking-mine. That's a horse tranquilizer. She then turned around and made a song about refusing to go to rehab. Look, it's hard for me to feel bad about it. But I'm not about to shed a tear for someone who did this to themselves.
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  #13  
Old 07-24-2011, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Yes but some people find it harder to confront something than to run away from it
Right. That's why they're inferior.
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Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Ok, but they use drugs to in a sense get rid of their problems (temporarily)
It's like you occasionally use your car just for long distance journeys, then you start using it for slightly shorter travels as well until your using it to get the sho[p at the bottom of the road. You didn't intend to start doing it but you did.
The road to hell… etc., etc., etc.
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Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Your just as bad in the sense because you feel they don't count because of what they're doing, yeah its not a good thing but they're still people, its like saying a handicapped person doesn't count because they can't get a job.
Nope. I'm not "just as bad". And addicts "don't count"? Says who? You? It certainly wasn't me. Even if that were so—which isn't what I put forth at all, mind you—your "just as bad" charge still fails. The only sense that makes is nonsense. You're attempting to apply something objective like qualitative comparison to subjective P.o.V. morality. The all or nothing principal doesn't fit. I'm "just as bad" as a self-destructive junkie that harms himself, those close to him and potentially the general public in an attempt to run from his/her problems and feed their addiction?
Pffffft, 'fuck off with that noise.
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  #14  
Old 07-25-2011, 11:18 PM
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You tend to not care about people who set bad examples of themselves to you. When Michael Jackson died, thousands poured their emotions. Because despite his odd life, he always tried to keep a clean image. Look at Jeff Hardy or Scott Hall. If either died tomorrow, no one would be surprised or all that saddened because their public images have deteriorated. Eddie Guerrero was in the same shoes. But he did turn his life around. But eventually died. That crushed everyone because of the image had at that time. People felt sad that he died even though he turned his life around. That wouldn't be the case with someone who didn't manage to get away from drugs in time.
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  #15  
Old 07-26-2011, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Hamlertainment, Inc. View Post
Was it not? It surely wasn't my fault.
No, its not. But we don't know how she got hooked. Do you know how many people get hooked on drugs because an earnest doctor prescribed narcotics to someone who were susceptible to addiction? About 50% of addicts. That's why we have doctors coming up on trial in the deaths of celebrities on a fairly frequent basis.

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Mommy says drugs are bad. Of course I'm going to look down on them.
Looking down on drug users only pushes them further away from looking for any kind of discernable help. Ive seen it so many times.

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As if drugs are the only way to release problems. Everyone has problems, some people have a family to feed with no job to feed them with. Believe me, there are always worse cases out there than your own.
This isn't at you Hamler, it's a simple explanation. Has anyone ever taken, or better yet, been prescribed a medication(drug) like Xanax or Ativan? They're as addictive as heroin or cocaine, and just as hard to come off of with long-term use. Yet doctors prescribe these medications in good faith all the time to help those with anxiety. When the temporal dose ceases to be effective, the doctor in good faith increases the dose. These drugs are often gateway drugs to illegal ones, and doctors often fail to explain their addictive properties to others, and prescribe them to people too early. In the case of people with a genetic disposition to addiction, how much of a chance do they truly have here? They turned to the right person, their doctor, for help. And they were prescribed an addictive medication that's a gateway for other drugs because most doctors dont understand or dont take the time to explain. We dont know what the case was with Ms. Winehouse.

Quote:
I'm not a drug addict....so I'm not 'just as bad'.
How do we classify "problems" such as addiction? Is "addiction" worse because it's more publicized? What about the addict whose able to maintain a life while downing pills and shooting up? When we start categorizing people, we walk a slippery slope.

Quote:
If you are that depressed about something going on in your life then you do need help. That's not physically or mentally safe in anyway.
It is stupid, and if someone turns to street drugs or alcohol to solve their problems, well, there's a reaping and sowing compenent there. I have little sympathy for those, but a large amount of empathy. Because the cause and effect is never truly understood at times.

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Seriously, how hard is it to find someone to talk to? LSN in some type of psychiatrist, a druggie can go talk to him.
I am(A psychologist anyway). Ive talke with many a person about their problems, admitted more then my fair share to rehab, and have worked with more then enough off-again, on-again users. But Ive still made the mistake of prescribing medications to people who couldnt handle them and have had 4 people die of OD or suicide directly from the meds Ive prescribed them. All of us make mistakes and bad judgment calls. Its not just the users, its the enablers. And doctors can be enablers.

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People are out there willing to listen, you just have to find those people.
There are. But as many people out there who are willing to listen(and we generally try without passing judgment), there are those who screw up, and wind up screwing up the lives of those we work with more then said life was before. Im not discouraging the psychology and psychiatry approach, in general, its the best route. But its not foolproof either, and Id be lying if I said otherwise.
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  #16  
Old 07-26-2011, 09:53 PM
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The younger generations have grown less sympathetic to the problems of their peers, thats for sure. Drug abuse is an addiction, so is lying, sex, gambling, and all these other things that have become so plentiful in today's society. A lot of people who look down on drug addicts fail to realize that they might have their own addiction thats not so visible. If one doesnt pop up in their head, I usually suggest being a cynical asshole, thats the biggest addiction I've seen in my life. Because you truly have to be a cynical asshole to feel no sort of sympathy for people who have a physical or mental dependance on substances that destroy their body. People need to understand the basis of sympathy. Sympathy doesnt include acknowledging that someones situation is justifiable, its acknowledging the fact that someone is hurting due to their position. Obviously Amy Winehouse made the wrong choice, but by stating the fact that its a shame the world lost someone so talented and young it doesnt make it any less wrong that she was an addict. A lot of people who look down on drug addicts cannot place themselves in someone else's shoes because they havent experienced the bad moments that the addict has. Like you mentioned there are a lot of things that make people become addicts. Traumatic experiences in life, falling into a bad crowd, falling into the control of ones who form toxic relationships. These are all factors that are rarely experienced by the majority of the people in this world. I was just reading an interview with Mike Tyson, where he was quite candid about his drug use. Of course he knows that using drugs is wrong, but he can look back at his own experiences and understand why people like Amy Winehouse dont get clean like he did. He can feel for them. Our society cant do this because the mindset of people these days is that "if I havent gone through it, then its not relevant enough for me to look into". I guarantee you these people who talk about Amy Winehouse have the slightest idea what drug addiction is like and how hard it is to quit. These cynical assholes cant take the time to let their emotions kick in, and thus judge heartlessly.

As far as the Marilyn Manson thing is concerned, I'm glad he would've listened. So many people fail to do that. I can tell when someone is about ready to pop because I'm not too wrapped up in my own life or my ego to study someones behavior. Its funny how people can push kids to this point and when they act out they're deemed the bad guys. I more than welcome you to let me make a living hell out of your life and then we'll see which road you pick, either killing me or killing yourself, they're the two most likely choices. But once again people cant sympathize, and their ego forces them to say "well they should've just ignored the bullies and moved along" without placing themselves in their shoes for one second. Without imagining people reminding them every single day that their lives are worthless, then coming home to parents who wouldnt be able to do anything to stop it due to the fact that schools have started picking up a habit of not acknowledging bullying as a serious problem. Its ok if you dont want to listen to what a bunch or "geeks" or "nerds" or "fags" have to say but could you not torture them as well?
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2011, 03:27 AM
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Triple Naitch Triple Naitch is offline
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Originally Posted by HBK-aholic View Post
1. There's a difference between someone deserving to die, and me not having sympathy for that death. This part isn't aimed at you, but it's what many people seem to believe. One does not automatically equate to the other, and as such I can have no sympathy for someone such as Winehouse , while not having wanted her to die previous to it happening.
Exactly how I feel. I would never wish death on anyone, but when someone completely ruins their life with their drug addiction (which according to the papers was costing her £1000 a day!?), then I have no sympathy at all for her. Her decisions and her choices led to her life ending so young.

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Originally Posted by HBK-aholic View Post
I also don't think most addicts WANT to be addicts now, but as I explain in my next part, they chose to take that risk by starting with them.
Exactly right, I idolise Slash from Guns N Roses, and he was he was once a huge drug addict. If he had died from his addiction of course I would have been sad, but not sympathetic, his death would have been his old fault.

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Originally Posted by HBK-aholic View Post
2. No one forced drugs down their throat. I'm so sick of people acting as if drug addicts aren't to blame at all. Now, I've heard of the odd case especially in human trafficking cases where a dealer has got someone hooked on a drug so they feel unable to leave him. However, let's not act as if that's a majority of people. In the majority of drug addiction cases people have made the decision to turn to a drug. Whether that be because it was the 'cool' thing to do at school, their boyfriend or girlfriend encouraged it, or whether they felt they had oh so many problems and just had to have that drug because it'd solve everything - it was their choice, no one elses.
There is obviously the peer pressure aspect of it in some cases, but I know plenty of people who use drugs and I have been offered drugs on many occasions. But I always have said no, I am not going to be forced into fucking up my own life, let others make that mistake.

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Originally Posted by HBK-aholic View Post
3. Everyone has problems, and I'd be willing to bet many people have problems worse than those who are drug addicts. Why should I feel sorry for someone who handled their issue so wrongly? I have sympathy for those with serious problems. And no, I don't mean a stupid girl whose boyfriend leaves her after a week. But I don't have sympathy for those who think turning to Heroin or Cocaine is going to make life better and make them forget everything that's ever happened. What would the world be like if we all did that after a problem? Oh, that's right, there'd be none of the doctors, police officers, soldiers etc. that we have now working to help people - the world would be a mess, filled with people like that. Why should you be allowed to take every drug under the sun, hurt their family and forget that problem that started everything when so many others have to deal with them properly?
Agreed, there are enough places in the world to get help without having to turn to a drug that will ultimately make your life worse and shorter. There are family, friends, helplines, medical health professionals etc. I understand someone getting really drunk when something bad happens (which some people may class as terrible too), but that almost always results in a hangover and nothing more, not the terrible addiction that some of these drugs do, that can be triggered by simply trying them once of twice.

Speaking to people trained to help in bad situations will always be more beneficial than numbing the pain with dangerous drugs and trying to block out the memory. That is only ever a short term fix and will not help you in the long run. Winehouse clearly didn't make the most of the opportunities to help herself.

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Originally Posted by HBK-aholic View Post
4. Drug addiction affects more than the person addicted. I laughed so hard at the complete ignorance of someone in one of the Winehouse threads saying 'Oh well, she only ever hurt herself with the addiction'. It was naive at best, and plain stupid at worst. While that may be the case for the odd loner, people have families, friends, loved ones. Ever seen a parent whose child is addicted? They're hurt almost as much as if that child had died. And what about those addicts who have their own children and allow them to be around that mess? The people that fall into the latter are scum to me, regardless of what their original problem was.
The people I feel sorry for are Amy Winehouse's friends and family. They have seen someone they really love publically kill themselves over the past few years. It must have been heartbreaking to see your daughter plastered all over the papers in a drugged up state on a regular basis, watch her looks decline, see her succumbing to her addiction. No parent wants to go through that, and all they would want to do is help her. The sad thing is with a drug addict, they need to want to help themselves, and have the willpower to beat the addiction. She didn't, and look what happened.

[quote=HBK-aholic;3287834]5. They also often hurt wider society. Many drug addicts don't have the money to feed their addiction - so they turn to crime. No one can make excuses for that. They hurt their victims pretty badly, as I'm sure anyone who has been a victim will tell you. And they hurt the economy too. Furthermore, who gets to pay to look after them when they've overdosed or being found so drugged up by a member of the community? Ah, that's right, the taxpayer. While I'm a huge supporter of our NHS scheme and everyone's rights to treatment, it doesn't mean I'm happy about drug addicts using it, only to turn to drugs again the second they leave. [quote]

Spot on again. Alot of crime is the result of drug addicts stealing to get the money to feed their addiction. When you need drugs that badly you will do anything to get your next fix. To me, its a disgusting and pathetic thing to get mixed up in, and it annoys me that my tax money is going to fund these people when some of them dont even really want to get help. For those who do, fine, everyone deserves a chance to get better. But, when people are living in poverty and money is being spent on people who are never going to really try and get help, then that irritates me.

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Originally Posted by HBK-aholic View Post
Also, I don't care, in general, if you use a particular drug, if it doesn't affect me or my family. However, just as you can go ahead using it all you like, I can go ahead not giving a shit for any negative outcome you bring on with your use of it. And I fail to see why people believe I should care in the slightest.
Yep, it is all the individual person's choice. If they choose to damage their bodies, ruin their lives and probably live a shorter life they so be it. I don't like it, I never will but as long as they don't hurt other people and certainly not me or anyone close to me, fuck them. Let them do it, and I won't have any sympathy for them. I wouldn't expect people to feel sorry for me if I suddenly turned to heroin tomorrow out of my own choice, so I am not going to feel sympathy for anyone unless they have a damm good reason for becoming a smackhead, such as a very rare case of being deliberately hooked on the drug due to human trafficking or something like that.

All the papers are full of tributes to Amy Winehouse? Why? Was she really that good? No, she was a pretty talented singer who ruined her own life. Why all the outbreak of goodwill towards her, did she really do anything to justify that? 2 albums, thats all. She didn't change music, she didn't change lives. Let her family mourn in piece and stop filling my reading material, television screens and radio with articles on her. I am not in the slightest bit interested. I would rather they focus on important issues, like the terrorist attacks in Oslo, or things that affect my life, rather than a smacked up junkie who ruined her own life.
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