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Old 01-28-2011, 04:01 AM
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Default Topic #7, Group #1: Most Well Rounded Athlete

This thread is to be used by those in Group #1 (see the stickied thread for rosters if you're unsure of where you are). Any other posts in here will be flagged for spam and deleted. You have four days from the time this is posted to post (as in the time this is posted on Tuesday, which is approximately when the new topic will go up. Note that I mean 96 hours after MY initial post, not the lead off debater.) your arguments, rebuttals and anything else you want. Best overall debater in that time period receives 10 points, second receives 9, third receives 8, all others receive 7.

Hitting Lead-Off in this debate is People's Peep. He has 24 hours to reply and if he doesn't then it's open season.

Again: 4 days, best overall poster gets first place points.

Topic: What sport has the most well rounded athletes overall?

Scores will be posted as soon as the three judges give their scores.

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Old 01-28-2011, 07:23 PM
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For me, a well rounded athlete is someone who is intelligent, in knowledge and his sport, tough, mentally and physically, and of course, skilled. So in my mind, I think that hockey players are the most well rounded athletes.

First, hockey players are usually very smart. In fact, 79 NHL players have been drafted out of Harvard University. Thats more than any other Ivy-league school in any other sport. Also, some of the best collegiate hockey teams in the country are also known as some of the best academic schools in the country, such as Cornell, Harvard, Boston University, and Yale. On the ice, the players must have a constant knowledge where everyone is on the ice. You need to make a smart decision with the puck in a second.

We all know about the toughness of hockey players. Its not uncommon for a player to lose a tooth, get a puck or stick in the face, and then come back 5 minutes later. I mean, you dont see fighting in any of the other three major sports. On top of that, you have hard hits, blocking shots, and goaltending, which any goalie will tell you that even with the padding, it hurts.

Hockey takes a lot of skill as well. The hand eye coordination needed is comparable to baseball. A players skill and agility is possibly higher than players in other sports because it is done on skates. Also, its been proven that goalies actually have the reflexes of a cat. Thats why I feel that hockey has the most well rounded athletes.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:10 PM
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To me a well rounded athlete is someone that has a combination of speed, strength, endurance, and the ability to play multiple sports. Right away that eliminates most sports. Soccer players may have the most endurance of any athlete but that's just one aspect of what makes a well rounded athlete. Hockey players are tough and also have great endurance but the majority of hockey players wouldn't be able to succeed in another sport at a high level. The answer to me is without a doubt American Football players.

Success in Other Sports

Just look at this list of NFL players who have excelled in other sports

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rican_football

Many NFL players get drafted into MLB before starting their NFL careers. There are many like Antonio Gates who were able to excel in basketball at the college level and some who could have had some success in the NBA as well. You have a couple guys like Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson who were able to play and excel in two professional sports at the same time. Both previously mentioned athletes played in the NFL and MLB during the same year.

Baseball, basketball, soccer, track, lacrosse, golf, MMA, these are all sports that American Football players have had success in and often great success in. There is no other athlete in the world as well rounded and versatile as American Football players.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:27 AM
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For me, a well rounded athlete is someone who is intelligent, in knowledge and his sport, tough, mentally and physically, and of course, skilled. So in my mind, I think that hockey players are the most well rounded athletes.
With the exception of maybe intelligence, American Football players beat hockey players in all of those categories. Even with intelligence you won't have very many hockey players that can match wits with the likes of Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady. To be a successful qb in the NFL takes a very high intelligence level. Let's also not forget guys like safety Myron Rolle who was awarded the Rhodes Scholarship and took a year off from football to study medical anthropology at Oxford. It's not easy to memorize a playbook and be able to read offenses/defenses.

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We all know about the toughness of hockey players. Its not uncommon for a player to lose a tooth, get a puck or stick in the face, and then come back 5 minutes later. I mean, you dont see fighting in any of the other three major sports. On top of that, you have hard hits, blocking shots, and goaltending, which any goalie will tell you that even with the padding, it hurts.
I won't deny hockey players are tough and they may be close to the toughness of American Football players but no way are they tougher. Not much can compare to a 6'2" 250 pound linebacker running full speed and spearing you. The majority of players take a huge beating on nearly every play.

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Hockey takes a lot of skill as well. The hand eye coordination needed is comparable to baseball. A players skill and agility is possibly higher than players in other sports because it is done on skates. Also, its been proven that goalies actually have the reflexes of a cat. Thats why I feel that hockey has the most well rounded athletes.
It takes a lot of skill but it is skill that doesn't really translate to anything else. There are virtually no NHL players that could have excelled at other professional sports. The NFL is full of guys who could have. That easily makes them better all around athletes.
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:28 PM
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I've gotta agree with The People's Peep. Hockey players are definitely the most well rounded athletes. First off, hockey players are generally the most down to earth of all athletes, without needing to be humbled. You don't hear about how they want to be traded right out of the gate of being drafted (see Eli Manning) or how they want to hold out for money when drafted(see Michael Crabtree). Hockey is an expensive sport and they know the hardship it takes to pay for time to play on the indoor rinks or buy equipment. That's always good.

Their skills are also a challenge. We see in the skills competition what certain players are capable of on the ice. And first off all, skating on the ice itself is difficult for quite a few people, these guys are also going backwards at relatively high paces. Duncan Keith skated around the ice backwards in the skills competition in 16 seconds. The fastest guy going forward was 14 seconds. Or big Zdeno Chara smoking the puck at a record 105.9 MPH. That's just in a friendly competition. On the ice you have guys threading the puck in between defenders to try and score. How is this different than a QB threading the ball to a receiver? Using a stick is more difficult than using your arm.

Lastly, it's harder to get past a goaltender whose sole job is to protect the net than it is to go past a defense like Tom Brady or Drew Brees can do. Everyone has an off night but goaltenders regularly stand on their heads to keep goals out or their team in the game.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:06 PM
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With the exception of maybe intelligence, American Football players beat hockey players in all of those categories. Even with intelligence you won't have very many hockey players that can match wits with the likes of Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady. To be a successful qb in the NFL takes a very high intelligence level. Let's also not forget guys like safety Myron Rolle who was awarded the Rhodes Scholarship and took a year off from football to study medical anthropology at Oxford. It's not easy to memorize a playbook and be able to read offenses/defenses.
Yeah, to be a quaterback in the NFL, it takes intelligence. It is difficult to read a defense or offense. But that one skill is specific to that sport. I dont know about you, but for me, when talking about intelligence and well roundedness, that means more general knowledge and smarts. Not something a select few need to know.

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I won't deny hockey players are tough and they may be close to the toughness of American Football players but no way are they tougher. Not much can compare to a 6'2" 250 pound linebacker running full speed and spearing you. The majority of players take a huge beating on nearly every play.
It is very close. Scott Stevens, one of the most iconic tough guys in the NHL, was 6'2" 215 pounds. I think I would rather get speared by a linebacker than get smashed against the boards by Scott Stevens.

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It takes a lot of skill but it is skill that doesn't really translate to anything else. There are virtually no NHL players that could have excelled at other professional sports. The NFL is full of guys who could have. That easily makes them better all around athletes.
You make a solid point, but I look at it like this. Football, when broken down into skills, is catching, throwing, and running. All of those things are things that just about anyone can do. Throwing a football is different than throwing other balls, but its still not too hard. Hockey on the other hand, requires stick handling and skating. Have you ever been to a hockey game and seen when they put a fan on the ice and have them try and shoot into the net? Most of the time, they miss wide and can barely hold the stick. Also, not everyone can skate.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:20 PM
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Alright I want to settle the tough guy thing. So players get tackled in football. Players get checked into the boards in hockey. Whoopdy fucking do. In hockey, while players wear helmets, some don't have a face shield. Duncan Keith lost 7 fucking teeth in Game 4 of the Western Conference Finals and only missed a few shifts so he could get shots to stop the pain. Not to mention all of the other shots to body parts not protected by padding. Also do I need to mention Clint Malarchuk's incident years ago getting his throat cut by a skate? A pool of blood in the crease. He was in the hospital just one night, at practice four days later, and in net about a week after being in the hospital.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:18 PM
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Yeah, to be a quaterback in the NFL, it takes intelligence. It is difficult to read a defense or offense. But that one skill is specific to that sport. I dont know about you, but for me, when talking about intelligence and well roundedness, that means more general knowledge and smarts. Not something a select few need to know.
We are talking about athletics here and well rounded athletes. I don't consider general intelligence all that important of an attribute when talking about who the most well rounded athletes are.

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It is very close. Scott Stevens, one of the most iconic tough guys in the NHL, was 6'2" 215 pounds. I think I would rather get speared by a linebacker than get smashed against the boards by Scott Stevens.
And I'd say you are in the minority there. Outside of professional strongmen there are no athletes out there with more size and strength then American Football players.

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You make a solid point, but I look at it like this. Football, when broken down into skills, is catching, throwing, and running. All of those things are things that just about anyone can do. Throwing a football is different than throwing other balls, but its still not too hard. Hockey on the other hand, requires stick handling and skating. Have you ever been to a hockey game and seen when they put a fan on the ice and have them try and shoot into the net? Most of the time, they miss wide and can barely hold the stick. Also, not everyone can skate.
So because hockey players can skate they are the best all around athletes? I guarantee if someone were to argue for figure skaters they would have been shit on by everyone for their argument. Football skills may be some that everyone can do but very few can do them well. Just like NHL players obviously have superior hockey skills to the general fan, NFL players have superior Football skills to the general fan.


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Alright I want to settle the tough guy thing. So players get tackled in football. Players get checked into the boards in hockey. Whoopdy fucking do. In hockey, while players wear helmets, some don't have a face shield. Duncan Keith lost 7 fucking teeth in Game 4 of the Western Conference Finals and only missed a few shifts so he could get shots to stop the pain. Not to mention all of the other shots to body parts not protected by padding. Also do I need to mention Clint Malarchuk's incident years ago getting his throat cut by a skate? A pool of blood in the crease. He was in the hospital just one night, at practice four days later, and in net about a week after being in the hospital.
Fanfuckingtastic. Do you really want to get into the "my dick is bigger then yours" type of argument? In 1979 Jack Youngblood played the entire 1979 playoffs, including the Super Bowl and the Pro Bowl with a broken fibula. In a 1982 playoff game Kellen Winslow caught 13 passes for 166 yards and a td and blocked a field goal in the final seconds. He played the game with a pinched nerve in his shoulder, dehydration, severe cramps, and received three stitches in his lower lip. In the mid 80's Ronnie Lott hurt his finger and instead of missing time with the injury he had part of it amputated so he wouldn't have to miss a game. In 1993 Emmit Smith played the regular season finale with a separated shoulder and led the Cowboys to the NFC East title. Just a few years ago Phillip Rivers played the AFC title game with a torn ACL. In 2002 Donovann McNabb played a game against the Cardinals with a broken ankle and threw 4 td passes. Dan Pastorini, a former qb, played with broken ribs and a punctured lung. We can go back and forth all day with tough guy stories.

No professional athlete takes more of a beating then American Football players. That is evident by the short average span of their pro careers as well as the physical problems they go through well after they retire. Just recently ESPN did a story on all the pain killer abuse that former players go through. Former running back Earl Campbell before even turning 50 looked like an 80 year old man. He has to sometimes even use a wheel chair just to get around and he is only 55 years old.
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I've gotta agree with The People's Peep. Hockey players are definitely the most well rounded athletes. First off, hockey players are generally the most down to earth of all athletes, without needing to be humbled. You don't hear about how they want to be traded right out of the gate of being drafted (see Eli Manning) or how they want to hold out for money when drafted(see Michael Crabtree). Hockey is an expensive sport and they know the hardship it takes to pay for time to play on the indoor rinks or buy equipment. That's always good.
So being down to earth and mostly rich kids means they're more well rounded athletes? Gotcha. Also you talk about not forcing trades, what about Eric Lindros who was drafted in 1991 by Quebec but he refused to play there so he sat out a year until he got traded?

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Their skills are also a challenge. We see in the skills competition what certain players are capable of on the ice. And first off all, skating on the ice itself is difficult for quite a few people, these guys are also going backwards at relatively high paces. Duncan Keith skated around the ice backwards in the skills competition in 16 seconds. The fastest guy going forward was 14 seconds. Or big Zdeno Chara smoking the puck at a record 105.9 MPH. That's just in a friendly competition. On the ice you have guys threading the puck in between defenders to try and score. How is this different than a QB threading the ball to a receiver? Using a stick is more difficult than using your arm.
The whole hockey skill thing has proven nothing other then the fact that it can't really translate well to any other sport. How can you be the most well rounded athlete when you can only excel at one particular thing? You also say it's easier to thread the needle throwing a football then shooting a puck which is completely false. Reading defenses, having to know where every receiver is and every defender is isn't something everyone can do especially at the professional level. You talk about 105 mph slap shots? How about running 40 yards in 4.4 seconds? How about doing 20+ bench press reps of 225 pounds? How about having a 40 inch vertical leap? American Football athletes are freaks of nature and their skills allow them to excel at multiple sports at a very high level, not just one.

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Lastly, it's harder to get past a goaltender whose sole job is to protect the net than it is to go past a defense like Tom Brady or Drew Brees can do. Everyone has an off night but goaltenders regularly stand on their heads to keep goals out or their team in the game.
A football field is 360 by 160 feet. With just 11 defenders on the field that's a lot of ground to cover. An NHL net is just 48 by 72 inches, it has an adult male in large pads standing inside it and he has defenders in front of him to help out. I wonder why it's harder to score in hockey? I also wonder how this is at all relevant to what athletes are more well rounded.
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