Bronze Medal Submission Match - El Canek (MEX) vs Samoa Joe (SAM)

[IrishCanadian25]

BRONZE MEDAL MATCH

El Canek (MEX)


vs

Samoa Joe (SAM)


This is the BRONZE MEDAL MATCH in the 2010 Wrestlezolympics. This match will be contested under general Submission Match Rules. The match will continue without pinfalls until a wrestler either taps out or is rendered unconscious by an opponents submission maneuver. WZO Submission Matches are contested under no count-out, no DQ rules, but the match can only end via submission inside the ring.

The winner of this match will win the Bronze Medal in the Submission Event. The loser will not medal.

The match will open for discussion on Friday, February 12th, and voting will begin on Saturday, February 13th. This is a non-spam thread, so if you decide to post, you must provide reasons why you are backing a particular wrestler. You may vote without posting.

[LSN80]

I have to give the nod to El Canek here. The guy would travel all over the globe to face some of the best submission artists the world has to offer, such as antonio inoki, and guys like tiger mask would travel to come face him. He could likely overpower Joe, as he was one of the few wrestlers to ever bodyslam Andre the Giant. I see Canek winning this one.

[IrishCanadian25]

I have to agree.

Canek is the one man in this bracket whose power truly negates Joe's size. Canek not only bodyslammed Andre - he also did the same thing to Yokozuna (albeit s slightly smaller, 460+ lb version named Kokina) and holds a victory over Hulk Hogan.

I also have to invoke "The Thesz Rub." Thesz was the UWA Champion who put Canek over and on the map. The fact is, Thesz was and is an absolute legend and the man didn't lose to just anybody. Nor did Hogan. Nor did Andre. Nor did Inoki. There is one rival Canek has not been able to defeat, and that's Mil Mascaras.

Samoa Joe is no Mil Mascaras.

Don't vote for Joe because he has a nickname like "The Samoan Submission Machine." Canek gets the gold because he has the power the neutralize Joe and the submission repitoire to make the fat man tap.

[gd]

Ya, Canek has to win this here. Joe is pretty cool and all, but doesn't have much of a size advantage here. The whole submission machine thing doens't mean much anyway. In fact, he's not a very successful submission wrestler at all. Canke is more or less a legned. Joe is pretty decent. The choice should be easy here.

[jmt225]

Well, since no other Joe voter wants to step up and help him win this like he should, I'll gladly do the job. Can't let Joe get the Edge/HBK like win.

Originally Posted by IC25

Canek is the one man in this bracket whose power truly negates Joe's size. Canek not only bodyslammed Andre - he also did the same thing to Yokozuna (albeit s slightly smaller, 460+ lb version named Kokina) and holds a victory over Hulk Hogan.

Very impressive indeed.

But, let me ask you this... has El Canek ever been in the ring with someone not only the size of Samoa Joe, but someone who was also as athletically gifted as him? I don't think so, man.

Samoa Joe, in my opinion, is one of the most impressive specimens throughout the history of pro wrestling. Bitch about in-ring 'psychology' and promo ability all you want, but on Raw, athletic talent... this guy is truly unbelievable. I mean, when you look at him, you don't see a guy who can run a 4.5 40 (something Kurt Angle claims Joe has done), and can jump over that top rope like any Lucha Libre star you could ever name. No, at first glance, you just see a fat slob, but Samoa Joe is anything but. He's one of the most gifted athletes I've ever seen in pro wrestling, and I just don't see someone like El Canek could ever slow this man down.

Originally Posted by IC25

I also have to invoke "The Thesz Rub." Thesz was the UWA Champion who put Canek over and on the map. The fact is, Thesz was and is an absolute legend and the man didn't lose to just anybody. Nor did Hogan. Nor did Andre. Nor did Inoki.

Honestly man, let someone like Samoa Joe be around back then... his size, family origin, and his athletic ability... Thesz would have respected the guy deeply, no doubt, and I'm sure he would have given him the rub. Of course, that's pure speculation and there's no way I could ever prove it, but all I can say is that I truly believe it. Maybe you'll end up agreeing with that though...

Originally Posted by IC25

There is one rival Canek has not been able to defeat, and that's Mil Mascaras.

Somebody's been doing their homework, I see.

Originally Posted by IC25

Samoa Joe is no Mil Mascaras.

I know; he's better.

At least, let me put it this way... Joe could do things in that ring than Mil Mascaras couldn't dream of pulling off. Joe can not only fly like a Cruiserweight, but he contains unbelievable brute strength within him as well and can pull off INNOVATIVE power moves on pretty much anybody below 300/350 pounds, including El Canek (or Mil Mascaras, for that matter).

Originally Posted by IC25

Don't vote for Joe because he has a nickname like "The Samoan Submission Machine." Canek gets the gold because he has the power the neutralize Joe and the submission repitoire to make the fat man tap.

I'm not voting for Joe because of his nickname my man, but for the simple fact that he's twice the athlete El Canek could ever dream of being, and because he's just as tough, if not tougher, as Canek, too.

20 minutes into the match, a beat up El Canek gets a second wind, makes a little comeback, and goes for the Gorilla Press Slam... but on his way up, Joe is able to get behind Canek, and proceeds to lock in the choke, where Canek has two choices: Tap Out or Go to Sleep. Which one does he do, IC? I'll let you decide that part.

[Tastycles]

Samoa Joe has earned a reputation as a submission wrestler because he often finishes his matches in that manner, and not because he actually is a submission wrestler. You rarely see Joe wear his opponents down with holds, he relies on power with the holds to finish them off. You are not going to beat El Canek with power, just ask those far more powerful than Joe that have tried.

Canek would be able to wear down Joe, by both out powering him, and then he'd manage to slap some sort of move on. I've never seen Canek tap out, I have seen him power out of holds from guys stronger than Joe. I've seen Joe tap out, and I've seen Joe make stupid mistakes, I'm giving this to Canek.

[The Hiphopapotamus]

Funny, I competely forgot about this. Samoa Joe goes through here over El Canek. El Canek is a legend, no doubt about it. And if this was a regular match, I mightn't argue that he'd beat Joe. But this is a submission match.

Now see everyone brings up this argument that El Canek is a luchador who's really strong. Too bad he sacrifices speed for it. He bodyslammed Andre, someone witha strength advantage but a speed weakness. Now Joe has a size advantage, I see you all agree. But Joe also is very fast and athletically gifted. He can hit kicks from anywhere, he can run incredibly fast for someone of his size and is able to leap over the top rope. Canek had speed advantages over all those he had strength weaknesses against, while Joe is different. And Joe doesn't have to worry about getting him down for the count. He's made people with huge size advantages, like Kevin Nash, tap and lifted people like Tomko up for the musclebuster.

Originally Posted by Tastycles

Samoa Joe has earned a reputation as a submission wrestler because he often finishes his matches in that manner, and not because he actually is a submission wrestler.

As long as Joe is able to finish the Submission match with a submission hold, why should it matter. All he needs to do is beat Canek down until the point that he just has to lock on the rear naked choke. Not one part of the rules requires submission moves to be used during the match.

You rarely see Joe wear his opponents down with holds, he relies on power with the holds to finish them off. You are not going to beat El Canek with power, just ask those far more powerful than Joe that have tried.

I've already addressed the speed advantage argument, but Joe is a lot more than power. His strikes are absolutely brutal, and he can technical wrestle with the best of them. His suplexes are dominating.

Canek would be able to wear down Joe, by both out powering him, and then he'd manage to slap some sort of move on.

Joe has a power advantage and probably a speed advantage, so what makes you so sure of this. Joe could just as easily do the same thing, wear him out and then latch on a proper submission move that he has mastered and is proven, not just "some sort of move".

I've never seen Canek tap out,

I've never seen Joe tap out to a luchador. I've never seen a luchador with as much submission prowess as Joe when it comes to finishing a match.

I have seen him power out of holds from guys stronger than Joe.

It is very hard to get out of the choke, especially when he locks it in properly. He won't be able to power out of that.

I've seen Joe tap out,

To wrestlers like Kurt Angle, who are famous for submissions, unlike El Canek. Incidentally, Joe can also lock in the ankle lock aswell, like he did on Kurt Angle at Final Resolution 2007.

and I've seen Joe make stupid mistakes,

So Canek is incapable of mistakes?

I'm giving this to Canek.

And I'm giving it to Joe, as should everyone else.