Indy Wrestling>The Mainstream

[Slyfox696]

Originally Posted by xfearbefore

It sure is not. Unless you can show me some mathematic equation that proves this, no Sly, it's an opinion. Nowhere has that been "proven".

It's not proven that fans won't pay for an entertaining show? It hasn't been proven that the more entertaining show will always draw more money over an extended period of time?

Have you already forgotten the Monday Night Wars? Never could you see this principle as clearly as you could then. When WCW was hot, it was the more entertaining show, and so people paid to see it and the WWF almost went out of business. When the momentum switched to the WWF, they were the more entertaining show and WCW DID go out of business.

That most certainly has been proven.

Horseshit, and we've gone over this before. You continue to maintain that all entertainment is solely for the purpose of making money. There's artistry involved in wrestling Sly.

And the artistry is about entertaining fans. And as I've proven many times, fans don't pay for things that aren't entertaining.

But you didn't. You just stated your opinion. That's nice, but it's an opinion. Choose to believe what you want.

Sure I did. I proved it was inferior by showing how it doesn't draw, and I explained why it doesn't draw. What more can I do for you?

People are entertained by different things. Tell me we aren't going to argue about this Sly. What entertains you may not entertain another person. What makes your opinion more valuable? Nothing. ITS---YOUR----OPINION.

I agree people are entertained by different things. Some, like me, are entertained by quality wrestling. Some, like you apparently, are more easily entertained by shitty wrestling.

Just because you are entertained by it, doesn't change the fact it is shitty. Just because I like the Atlanta Braves, that doesn't mean they are a good baseball team.

You act superior by acting as though anyone who enjoys indy wrestling is a fucking idiot.

Well....

Sorry Sly, but that's just offensive. I find different things to be entertaining than you. I don't give a shit if you think it's inferior or not.

But when you endorse inferior work, then EVERYONE suffers. It's like the smoker telling everyone it's his choice to smoke, when in reality secondhand smoke is actually a danger to me as well.

Your endorsing poor wrestling eventually causes a decline in wrestling overall.

Such bullshit I can't believe you can even stand to type it out with a straight face. Continue with your elitism.

It's not elitism, when just about every worker who has had success in the business has said the same thing. Many guys today don't know how to work a match, they just use fancy moves and a fast pace to try and distract fans from the fact that they don't know how to work.

It's not elitism, it's a problem. And a problem that fans like you only help to spread.

I cannot believe this horseshit you're saying Sly. I seriously hope you're joking, otherwise you're a moron. You enjoy one thing, I enjoy another, doesn't make you "better" because of it, and if you try to argue that, I'm not even going to bother replying because what your saying is so stupid and egotistical that it'd be put to better use as laughing material on a rainy day than serious discussion.

I find it sad that wrestling fans such as yourself DON'T hold these indy promotions up to a higher standard. Ask anyone who worked in the business before the mid 1990s, and they'll ALL tell you roughly the same thing; about how wrestling is about the working the crowd, drawing the crowd in to the match, taking them up on a high, and then gently bringing them down before you build them back up again. Wrestling is about making the fans emotionally invested in the characters in the match. THAT is what wrestling is about, and THAT is what people pay to see on a grand scale.

It's not horseshit, it's the truth, and ANY of the greats of wrestling will tell you the same thing, as will most who started before the mid 1990s.

I'm not even going to bother replying to each statement you make, because each is more laughable than the previous it's just not worth it.

If it is so laughable, then how come the two most recognizable indy promotions are ROH, a company which is walking a tightrope of possible bankruptcy, and CZW, a company which endorses the use of lightbulbs and weedwhackers?

The fact of the matter is I'm NOT wrong, and you know it.

Congrations Sly, you have a fucking OPINION. Other people have DIFFERENT opinions. That's how the world works. We (including I) don't give two fucks if you think it's inferior wrestling Sly. Stop acting so smug.

That's great you have an opinion. I'm sure someone out there has the opinion that Mario Mendoza was a better hitter than Ted Williams. Doesn't change the fact that they, and you, are wrong.

And yes, acting like you're better than someone because of what fucking fake fighting promotion you watch is being smug.

And what do you call acting like you're better than someone because you watch inferior fake fighting?

[Shadowmancer]

now Sly you know what you have brought up here. The Concept of Monopoly. Or more accuratly with Wrestling a Duopoly with one side of the market cornered by the biggest company that promotes wrestling in the world. Ask Joe Bloggs on the street about Ring of Honor and they will not have heard of it. Ask them about the WWE and/or the WWF and you will get a completely different answer. Financial backing is a big part of being what you call popular, as far as I know Ring of Honor doesn't put millions of dollars into a marketing budget. Thereby meaning that saying that someone is bigger is a way of saying that they are better. Wrestling as it is right now is a pool that is dominated by one extremely large fish with a not as large fish there as well in TNA. They have the market cornered. Ring of Honor is on TV in such a way that if they poured money into the marketing of it they could get bigger. unfortunately as you have said they are walking a tightrope of not going bankrupt so the money is not there to expand that possibility right now.

[The Industry]

I don't think Indy Wresting>Mainstream. But I do think PWG and Chikara are booked way better then TNA, and have better wresting by far. I also think PWG and Chikara are booked better then Raw.

[ChuckTaylorMark]

Elitist? Check.
Instigator? Check.
Mainstream hag? Check.
All around numskull? Check.

Oh, and I would've mentioned TROLL, but that's obvious. Don't let pricks like this get to you; I thought the Ring of Honor pricks on their boards took wrestling too serious and were a bunch of sticks in the proverbial rear end, but this guy takes the cake and I had to register just to say it.

Cena makes money and entertains the fans therefore he is a good wrestler? No. That makes him a good worker. Workers/preformers and wrestlers are different you see. This is not to say Cena isn't a wrestler, he preforms the act of wrestling so he is a wrestler...just a very average one. Cena's ring psychology is pretty pathetically weak, btw. He's carried in every single high-profile match that he is put in and all his dialogue is written for him.

He is a good performer though, I'll give you that. And he seems like a pretty good guy as well, but that's only from what I hear and see outside of wrestling.

Oh and when you said CZW was the second biggest Indy I almost fell over laughing, it was almost as funny as when you said ROH was tightroping (which isn't a word or phrase, btw) bankruptcy. CZW hasn't been relevant in Indy wrestling since I don't know...2006! Just as I thought. You hear people like Al Snow and such bitch about these things, copy it, and then use it to troll boards without actually watching the Indy products.

You seem a pretty intelligible guy. Not a smart wrestling fan, no. But, intelligible. Intelligible enough to hear something and then type it on a forum to people who have already said they think Indy wrestling is a better source of entertainment for whatever individual reasons. Kid, I'll give you some advice, because you're seriously in need of it. Stop acting like you know something. You don't. You're not a professional wrestler and if you think any wrestler would say that sort of shit to a fan then you're a joke. Wrestlers would never take food off of another's table just because they don't agree with the type of wrestling that they put on.

Oh, and if Indy wrestling is such bad quality, why is it that every time I show someone a good Indy match, yeah a good one, not the spotfests that you seem to think every Indy match is, they seem to prefer it largely over things they've seen on the WWE? Hm. Reading your posts give me headaches and I just stumbled upon this site, I can imagine how bad it must've been for those who have been around since 2007. My condolences go out to you all.

Click for quality wrestling.

[General Disarray]

I don't think Indy wrestling is "better" than mainstream wrestling, it's just different. Depending on what your definition of pro wrestling is, you can't judge what is better quality. While someone may watch wrestling for one reason, others may watch it for a completely different reason. In the end, it all comes down to what you prefer.

Obvioulsy more people enjoy mainstream wrestling, but with recent developments such as ROH's TV show, it shows that the Indy crowd is more than relevant.

[Scottland]

I love indy wrestling.

IMO, it is way better than the shit on tv.

I just think of indy wrestling as being unpredictable. In WWE, you can expect the same shit every week. In the indies anything can happen. Plus, fans are way more involved in indy shows. Oh and best way to stock up on some good wrestling dvd's.