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-   -   At What Point Will WWE Realize that Roman is Not Good Enough? (http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=337601)

CyberPunk 09-05-2017 02:56 AM

At What Point Will WWE Realize that Roman is Not Good Enough?
 
...as a face. His whole mannerism screams heel. In last couple years or so, I don't remember a promo or skit in which he came across as likeable.

Now, I don't dislike Roman, far from it. I feel he has really improved in last couple of years. But knowing how the fans take him, it's almost impossible to get him over as a face. He'll always get boos no matter what. He's also not good enough on the mic to actually sell as a good face. In fact, his mic work is cold, something which is way more usable as a heel than as a fiery face. He can put on entertaining matches, but even in match mannerisms do nothing to feel like face. However, his over-all demeanor screams mega heel. Everything he does would make more sense as a heel.

The thing that bothers me even more is that amount of heat WWE sacrificed to try to put him over as face which they could've easily harnessed to put him over as heel. The whole WrestleMania 32 and 33 stories should've been about Roman being mega heel when he had paramount heat on him. How WWE, or specifically Vince, can't see that is beyond me.

shooter_mcgavin 09-05-2017 03:46 AM

I think the WWE knows this but I don't really think the company cares.

WWE is currently making money in spite of Reigns failing as the top baby face. They just need Reigns to represent the company more or less.

What i've come to realize is that WWE is more of a corporate brand now than a wrestling promotion and it's more important for them to position their brand (videogames, reality shows, the network, merchandise, etc) than creating a hot wrestling product.

khaled 09-05-2017 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberPunk (Post 5743003)
...as a face. His whole mannerism screams heel. In last couple years or so, I don't remember a promo or skit in which he came across as likeable.

Now, I don't dislike Roman, far from it. I feel he has really improved in last couple of years. But knowing how the fans take him, it's almost impossible to get him over as a face. He'll always get boos no matter what. He's also not good enough on the mic to actually sell as a good face. In fact, his mic work is cold, something which is way more usable as a heel than as a fiery face. He can put on entertaining matches, but even in match mannerisms do nothing to feel like face. However, his over-all demeanor screams mega heel. Everything he does would make more sense as a heel.

The thing that bothers me even more is that amount of heat WWE sacrificed to try to put him over as face which they could've easily harnessed to put him over as heel. The whole WrestleMania 32 and 33 stories should've been about Roman being mega heel when he had paramount heat on him. How WWE, or specifically Vince, can't see that is beyond me.

I think WWE's fan reception right now has a whole different metric to it. Most fans still wear the traditional lens of looking at superstar development and them going over. I am assuming that WWE has a whole different way of looking at their talent right now. Albeit Roman's development amidst a sea of great talent that deserve to be "over" him, I still think he deserves the number 1 spot. Vince probably sees a future in him more than anybody else. And for someone like Vince to stick to such a vision is not a matter of bad decision making, but rather a matter of deep and wide experience as a chairman and CEO of an empower. I think that's what most fans today miss.

I wholeheartedly trust Vince and his direction because nobody in this industry can run this empire better than him. Stephanie or Paul won't come close to his caliber of leadership, creative decisions, and vision.

Now, from a fan perspective, I really think we need to just chill out and let WWE do their thing. The way they listen to us right now is different. They don't care whether we boo or cheer. They care about noise. Noise, to them, equals "over". No noise = bad business. The more noise Roman gets, the better. Same goes for Cena.

I also believe that the fans who are dying to see Roman (or Cena, for that matter) turn heel need to just let go. I'm starting to think it's just a matter of believing that a change in 'flavor' will help. But it won't. At all. The whole 'heel vs face' approach to script writing from creative is something WWE doesn't really invest much in as a KPI for its superstars getting over. Now it's noise + merch sales + ticket sales + business future. Back then, I feel, it was mostly boos/cheers + ticket sales, and the merch and biz future came along.

So, I believe that if we spent time looking at WWE's approach and just appreciating it for what it is AND trusting that they know how to do their job with Roman and the likes of him then we'll just enjoy the product more and stop worrying about whether Roman deserves to be in his current or projected spot or not.

P.S: I see A LOT of potential in Roman. Times have changed. They don't rise to the top as smoothly and quickly as they did back then.

wrestlingmasters55 09-05-2017 05:58 AM

The problem is that when you go to live event which have more families then adult wrestling fans. Reigns is the most over guy on the roster so in their mind, reigns is over as a babyface so they see him as a new version of cena.

Reigns is making money for them in his current incarnation so that another thing fans don't think about when talking about reigns and in the end, it's all about the money. Like a lot of guy in the business said before, fans do pay money to either cheer or boo reigns so why change anything, they actually are doing something right with him if he getting lounder reaction then 95% of the roster.

So for all the haters, I think you have the right to hate him if you want but you also need to understand that wwe won't change their plan because you don't like him. You guys are reacting as much to reigns has people that actually like him so in yhey're mind, they have created a new Cena. So if you want reigns to change or wwe o change their mind on reigns, stop reacting to him, that's the only way something will change.

GOOZEKING 09-05-2017 06:29 AM

First of all Vince is too stubborn to admit he was wrong and to turn Roman Heel.
Second of all, in today's wwe casuals do not care who is the top babyface. Fans are not buying tickets and going to wwe events for Roman or anyone they buy tickets to go to a WWE event. Wwe brand itself is bigger than any superstar that's why they can sell out events just by their brand alone so it does not matter to them who is face or heel. Reigns is making a consistent amount of money and get a reaction so that's all Vince cares about.

It's honestly amazing that there has never been a time where a promoter has pushed someone as their top guy for so long and hasn't taken no for an answer. Personally, I see Roman as A top guy but I don't think he can be THE top guy. It's just when you look at Roman and you compare his positives and negatives with other top guys on the roster. I don't think he is any higher than other top guys. To me Roman is on the same level as a Rollins, Bray, a Joe. You know TOP guys just not THE top guy

kwig2121 09-05-2017 06:46 AM

So let me ask several questions that maybe the board can answer? What makes someone a "top guy?" Who chooses the "top guy?" and lastly if not Roman then who?

In my opinion Vince Mcmahon has always chosen the top guy. We the fans didn't get a choice that it was Hulk Hogan. He had interview charisma, peronality but stunk as a wrestler with maybe two moves. But no matter what he was Vince's guy.

We didn't choose Bret Hart who could wrestle not draw. Or Shawn Michaels...the fans booed the Rock and Cena. The only guy the fans swelled to that Vince had to change his character was Austin.

What makes a top guy?? Talking on the mic...promos? That's part of it. If that was the case Miz would be the champ...ohh he was but couldn't draw. Getting the most cheers. If that was the case Ambrose would still be the champ but he couldn't draw. Having great skills....Nakumura has em...but his promos are weak...time will tell if he can draw.

So if not Roman...who? Who is the guy? Finn Balor...give him a title and he is too small for the WWE 365 day grind and gets hurt. Seth Rollins...love him to death ...he too not an interview king and injury prone. Joe.....has the skills but physically is this the top headlining draw for your company. Last but not least today's flavor Braun Stroman. If he keeps on this pace he is a title contender...but how long is his window?

My point. You tube videos #1 WWE most watched ..Roman Reigns. Merchandise #2 Roman Reigns. Fued of the year...Strowman vs ummm Roman Reigns. Loudest reaction....Roman Reigns...you get my point.

It's not like Reigns can't wrestle. Doesn't bust his behind 365 without getting hurt. His weakest part yeah is his promos, because he needs to be taken off script like Rock, Cena, Austin, etc.

You can dislike him all you want but AJ Styles isn't on Raw. Roman Reigns is the guy, the choice. It's time we stop making excuses and except the reasons why.

Woodstuff 09-05-2017 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwig2121 (Post 5743023)
So let me ask several questions that maybe the board can answer? What makes someone a "top guy?" Who chooses the "top guy?" and lastly if not Roman then who?

In my opinion Vince Mcmahon has always chosen the top guy. We the fans didn't get a choice that it was Hulk Hogan. He had interview charisma, peronality but stunk as a wrestler with maybe two moves. But no matter what he was Vince's guy.

We didn't choose Bret Hart who could wrestle not draw. Or Shawn Michaels...the fans booed the Rock and Cena. The only guy the fans swelled to that Vince had to change his character was Austin.

What makes a top guy?? Talking on the mic...promos? That's part of it. If that was the case Miz would be the champ...ohh he was but couldn't draw. Getting the most cheers. If that was the case Ambrose would still be the champ but he couldn't draw. Having great skills....Nakumura has em...but his promos are weak...time will tell if he can draw.

So if not Roman...who? Who is the guy? Finn Balor...give him a title and he is too small for the WWE 365 day grind and gets hurt. Seth Rollins...love him to death ...he too not an interview king and injury prone. Joe.....has the skills but physically is this the top headlining draw for your company. Last but not least today's flavor Braun Stroman. If he keeps on this pace he is a title contender...but how long is his window?

My point. You tube videos #1 WWE most watched ..Roman Reigns. Merchandise #2 Roman Reigns. Fued of the year...Strowman vs ummm Roman Reigns. Loudest reaction....Roman Reigns...you get my point.

It's not like Reigns can't wrestle. Doesn't bust his behind 365 without getting hurt. His weakest part yeah is his promos, because he needs to be taken off script like Rock, Cena, Austin, etc.

You can dislike him all you want but AJ Styles isn't on Raw. Roman Reigns is the guy, the choice. It's time we stop making excuses and except the reasons why.

Stop it bro, you're making too much sense.

Fact of the matter is, Roman won the Rumble when fans wanted D Bry to stand tall. That, coupled with the fact Roman's position as "next face of WWE" leaked on dirtsheets shortly before hand, lead to massive fan backlash. They wanted Bryan to be the face of the company, and Reigns became the target of that frustration. If it hadn't been leaked, no one would 'hate' Roman anywhere near as much as they do now. Some people are just miserable and like to vent and complain for as long as possible, I guess.

EDIT: The reinforcement hating Reigns receives on social media doesn't help either. People read others saying Reigns can't talk, can't wrestle, can't draw etc, and they go with it. Read enough of something you want to believe online, and eventually you're gonna be convinced it's true

The Perfect Max 09-05-2017 07:26 AM

At this point, I find it quite funny that people don't realise that they have the power to dictate a face or a heel. That's the wrestling world that we live in. Especially in the WWE. Braun Strowman is a prime example of a guy who is the prototype heel, and yet he is one of the biggest "faces" on the main roster because the fans are cheering the absolute hell out of everything that he does. The same goes for Roman Reigns. WWE have built him up to be the prototype face of the company, and while many fans reject this, he still remains one of the biggest merchandise sellers, receives one of the loudest reactions every week consistently, and continues to put on very good matches. Was he not the heel in the match against Undertaker this year? Because from the fan perspective, it sure seemed like it. Nobody was cheering for him. They wanted his ass to get kicked. The same goes for his feud with Cena. He's the one who's been put in that heel position, if there even is one in this feud. My point is that the fans have been choosing where Roman Reigns fits in particular feuds and what role he plays for a long time now, and WWE place Reigns in feuds with guys like Taker, Cena, Lesnar and Strowman, and even to an extent with Jericho and Owens, because they know that the other guy can balance it out. Admittedly that wasn't the case a few years ago, but it is now.

Sometimes the school yard asshole doesn't even know that they're the asshole. And even if they do know, when they are standing up for themselves and what they believe in, it doesn't make a difference to them. His feud with Cena right now epitomises this. He believes in what he says. The fans can take it or reject it. But he will stand up for it, and most of the time, he proves himself in the eventual match. That's Roman Reigns, and you can decide if he is a face or a heel. I can see it now. It's just like how we have talked about with Cena for years and years. Will he ever turn? Will WWE ever see sense? WWE are playing to their strengths with Reigns, like they always did with Cena. And it works.

Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. 09-05-2017 01:41 PM

Roman had the most merch buys during WM weekend. Which means that Roman is printing them money that's coming from the casual fans. Heel turns usually result in lower merch sales. Ask CM Punk. His merch went down when he turnt heel in 2012 and that was one of the reasons he didn't want to do it, but he did it anyway so that he could keep the title and face The Rock.

Also, WWE is a brand. Which means they have to appeal to multiple other factors like sponsors and TV people and commercial people and all that stupid ass things, before they appeal to the fans. That's why WWE simply can't have a top cool heel representing the company. Reigns as a heel means blood and destruction for anyone in his way. It means cockiness. WWE can't have that. In WCW? Yeah Reigns is a heel. In NJPW? Yeah Reigns would be a heel. Not in the WWE though, because simply put WWE don't work that way.

Sure a heel turn and a good run from Reigns as a heel would improve his connection to the audience. But it would also mean that for a sort period of time WWE loses a lot of merch sales. As long as Reigns sells and as long as he gets so loud reactions, WWE will never do anything with him in a different way. It's simple.

Plus, to all the people that believe that if Reigns was pushed down the card his reactions would change, welll, he was in the midcard after his violation. Still got the loudest boos or cheers depending on the area he was in.

Reigns as a heel would indeed make an interesting programm but as one poster above me said, WWE ain't aiming at an interesting programm anymore.

V Dogg 09-05-2017 05:27 PM

Nowadays, the fans choose the faces and the heels. They cheer the designated heels and boo the designated faces for the most part. I think I read somewhere that if WWE makes someone heel, the fans will come to like them and cheer, and vice versa for the faces. You can do everything right in your role and the fans will respond with how they feel. If everyone on the roster swapped roles RIGHT NOW, fans will be happy for a few weeks, then fans will start to turn and WWE would swap the roles right back. Then fans would be happy for a few weeks before turning again, therefore creating this conundrum on who's really face and who's really heel.

In other words, it's hard to please fans nowadays.


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