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-   -   A unique case of Wrestlers on Lloyd's of London (http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=324069)

TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP 01-29-2017 02:25 PM

A unique case of Wrestlers on Lloyd's of London
 
Just a few questions I'd like to ask:

-1) How many wrestlers have taken out a policy with Lloyds of London?

-2) How many currently have one?

-3) Why would Lloyd's take the risk to insure a pro wrestler?

Personally, I'm not really sure how many guys really had a Lloyd's of London policy. It's probably like wrestling's version of Social Security welfare checks or wrestling's own version of the invalid's benefit/disability pension.

The ones who had the medical insurance policy were most likely Curt Hennig (broken tailbone), Road Warrior Animal (not sure what the official diagnosis was for his back injury, but he did take time off from 1992 to 1996) and Rick Rude (neck and back injuries suffered vs Sting in 1994). I don't know who else was on Lloyd's of London policy, but the only one besides those three was Shawn Michaels (out on back injury at the time).

Many fans have had at various points of their perceived career-ending injuries (except for Rude who was the only one of the lot with a genuine career-ending injury despite training for a comeback in the WWF in 1999) missed Hennig, Animal and Rude while they all took a long time to recuperate from their long-term injuries. Despite Hennig's issues with substance abuse, he was beloved and never really had a reputation for being a difficult person to work with, so therefore, Hennig was actually a pleasant worker to enjoy being around, drugs or no drugs; Rude was an awesome family man who covered his wedding ring with tapings and had been a good mentor when Kevin Nash broke into the wrestling business in WCW '91 as Oz and other horrible gimmicks Kevin Sullivan saddled him with, and even if Hawk struggled with his drug addictions at the end of his career and life, at least Animal was a good buddy for him all these years throughout.

The same couldn't even be said for Michaels who was branded as a difficult person who was at his lowest point in his life due to his life of drugs and now his back injury courtesy of a casket backbody drop by Undertaker at Royal Rumble '98. Even Triple H couldn't deal with the fact that he can't stand his own best friend buddy any longer by then, and it made it easier for Vince to send him away on hiatus without having to cater to his demands while Austin, Rock, Taker, HHH, Foley, Kane and Sable were going to be pushed as the Attitude cornerstones. Everyone in the WWF world by 1998 actually enjoyed success business-wise to the point that they never really missed having Michaels actually perform in the Attitude Era as a full-time wrestler. He was limited to non-wrestling roles through commentary, special guest referee and WWF commissioner.

Makaveli31 01-29-2017 03:30 PM

That's a good question. I would think the payments of that type of insurance policy would be pretty significant considering

1) The type of salary these guys make

2) The type of work they did

So you would think only upper tier guys could like Hennig, Rude, The Road Warriors could afford that type of insurance. We USED to hear all the time about wrestlers' working around injuries because they couldn't afford to stay home six months with no pay. Once guraanteed contracts started though I don't think a LLoyd's of London insurance policy was needed as the wrestlers' were considered employees of the company and not independent contractors. So if you are employed by the WWE and you get hurt in a WWE ring I'm pretty sure the WWE insurance would pick that up. As far as "career ending" injuries go that tough, I think the WWE would work something out where you remain on the company payroll i.e. Droz

TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP 01-29-2017 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makaveli31 (Post 5642505)
That's a good question. I would think the payments of that type of insurance policy would be pretty significant considering

1) The type of salary these guys make

2) The type of work they did

So you would think only upper tier guys could like Hennig, Rude, The Road Warriors could afford that type of insurance. We USED to hear all the time about wrestlers' working around injuries because they couldn't afford to stay home six months with no pay. Once guraanteed contracts started though I don't think a LLoyd's of London insurance policy was needed as the wrestlers' were considered employees of the company and not independent contractors. So if you are employed by the WWE and you get hurt in a WWE ring I'm pretty sure the WWE insurance would pick that up. As far as "career ending" injuries go that tough, I think the WWE would work something out where you remain on the company payroll i.e. Droz

@Makaveli31 : Plus, even when pro wrestling started getting guaranteed contracts with the help of Lex Luger, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash, and Hulk Hogan, surgical procedures weren't as advanced as today where players can get serious injuries and still come back to their old selves. The likes of Hogan, Savage, Nash, Warrior, Sid, Goldberg, Steiner, Hennig, Bret, Bulldog, Rock, Austin, Luger, Animal, Rude, Piper, Waltman, HBK and Droz were casualties of old-school surgery, and some of them were turned into either retirement, shadows of their former physical selves, and/or became nothing more than role players if they were already realistically second-tier stars at best.

I don't think Hennig got a guaranteed money contract from WCW, he probably was working for the minimum and had to appear on wrestling while often injured just to get his pay, while Hogan, Hall, Nash, Piper, Savage and Bret were free to ease up on their workload due to being the most protected of WCW's veterans or shall I say, former WWF'ers from the 1980s and early-to-mid 1990s. Hennig ultimately would up with torn knee ligaments, and his in-ring style probably suffered by 1998, and we can't blame Hennig for phoning in his matches for much of '98.

Do you agree with me that Hennig, Animal and Rude were more undoubtedly beloved than Michaels out of all the guys who took out Lloyd's of London policies at differing points?

therockiswwf 01-29-2017 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Eternal Champion (Post 5642515)
@Makaveli31 : Plus, even when pro wrestling started getting guaranteed contracts with the help of Lex Luger, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash, and Hulk Hogan, surgical procedures weren't as advanced as today where players can get serious injuries and still come back to their old selves. The likes of Hogan, Savage, Nash, Warrior, Sid, Goldberg, Steiner, Hennig, Bret, Bulldog, Rock, Austin, Luger, Animal, Rude, Piper, Waltman, HBK and Droz were casualties of old-school surgery, and some of them were turned into either retirement, shadows of their former physical selves, and/or became nothing more than role players if they were already realistically second-tier stars at best.

Did you randomly pick old school names? A lot of the people you listed have no relevance to the topic. Bret couldn't be fixed even if his injured happened right now at a hospital. Same with Luger. Same with Droz. HBK would have the same recovery time today (injury only cost him about a year, drugs cost him the rest). I'm not sure why Rock is even listed. I'm not sure any of the guys on the list had injuries that would be significantly different than today.

Please provide specific examples of their injuries and how it would be different today.

TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP 01-29-2017 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therockiswwf (Post 5642557)
Did you randomly pick old school names? A lot of the people you listed have no relevance to the topic. Bret couldn't be fixed even if his injured happened right now at a hospital. Same with Luger. Same with HBK (the injury only sidelined him for about a year, it was the drugs that made him stay out longer). Same with Droz. I'm not sure why Rock is even listed. I'm not sure any of the guys on the list had injuries that would be significantly different than today.

Please provide specific examples of their injuries and how it would be different today.

If the modern-day surgery operations existed in the same 1990s timeframe in place of the old-school surgery, and all these guys were younger, then guys like Steiner, Luger, Hennig, Rude, HBK and Bret, and maybe Droz, all would've been able to return to their pre-injury peak forms easier than they actually happened to go through. HBK took it easy and dropped weightlifting from his fitness repertoire so he came back skinnier than ever aka being ripped, compared to the early 1990s when he had some ounce of muscles via steroids, and the mid-to-late 1990s when Michaels shrunk some but not too much. Today's style of surgery never existed while Rude was still around, so he couldn't come back at all after 1994, Hennig was in and out of wrestling for the rest of his career, Animal even went solo by 2001 because Hawk had too many personal demons at that point and I don't know if a young Droz would have been fixed up back to normal efficiently than back then, Luger would never have been that horribly out of shape with a big roid gut by 2000-01 if it wasn't for his torn biceps tendon (so no spinal stroke and Miss Elizabeth never dies) with surgery was as advanced as it is today, and Steiner would never have become a super sloppy wrestler after back surgery either. Hogan was a showman to begin with, but he still got hurt by simple basic bumps, and if Savage was young when he had his ACL tear with today's surgery, maybe he would have still been able to do his trademark fast paced, high flying moves without drastically changing his image to just another stiff medium sized guy.

I included The Rock because back when he was still under the Rocky Maivia name/gimmick in the first half of 1997, he tore his ACL during a match with Mankind. He would not return until August when he joined the Nation of Domination, and a change in gimmick and gameplay style worked wonders for The Rock. Going from a high flying wrestler to the Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment really netted him more money. The only issue with Rock's Torn ACL is that he had to adopt the Box Office main event moveset to help him protect his knee from further aggravation to avoid a similar injury down the road, so he had to be a brawler. Never again did he do any high flying moves, since it was better left to the likes of HBK and Savage.

therockiswwf 01-29-2017 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Eternal Champion (Post 5642571)
If the modern-day surgery operations existed in the same 1990s timeframe in place of the old-school surgery, and all these guys were younger, then guys like Steiner, Luger, Hennig, Rude, HBK and Bret, and maybe Droz, all would've been able to return to their pre-injury peak forms easier than they actually happened to go through. HBK took it easy and dropped weightlifting from his fitness repertoire so he came back skinnier than ever aka being ripped, compared to the early 1990s when he had some ounce of muscles via steroids, and the mid-to-late 1990s when Michaels shrunk some but not too much. Today's style of surgery never existed while Rude was still around, so he couldn't come back at all after 1994, Hennig was in and out of wrestling for the rest of his career, Animal even went solo by 2001 because Hawk had too many personal demons at that point and I don't know if a young Droz would have been fixed up back to normal efficiently than back then, Luger would never have been that horribly out of shape with a big roid gut by 2000-01 if it wasn't for his torn biceps tendon (so no spinal stroke and Miss Elizabeth never dies) with surgery was as advanced as it is today, and Steiner would never have become a super sloppy wrestler after back surgery either. Hogan was a showman to begin with, but he still got hurt by simple basic bumps, and if Savage was young when he had his ACL tear with today's surgery, maybe he would have still been able to do his trademark fast paced, high flying moves without drastically changing his image to just another stiff medium sized guy.

I included The Rock because back when he was still under the Rocky Maivia name/gimmick in the first half of 1997, he tore his ACL during a match with Mankind. He would not return until August when he joined the Nation of Domination, and a change in gimmick and gameplay style worked wonders for The Rock. Going from a high flying wrestler to the Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment really netted him more money. The only issue with Rock's Torn ACL is that he had to adopt the Box Office main event moveset to help him protect his knee from further aggravation to avoid a similar injury down the road, so he had to be a brawler. Never again did he do any high flying moves, since it was better left to the likes of HBK and Savage.

ACL surgeries have been pretty much the same for a long time now (I've had one myself). You can do everything you did before the ACL tear after getting surgery. Rock came back as a heel. He shouldn't be doing flashy stuff as a heel. He also never really needed to do high risk stuff so that is probably he stopped doing that. The ACL is stronger after the surgery and you do not need to protect it. Some people might use a brace for peace of mind but it is not really needed. Limitations are psychological after it heals.

Bret suffered a head injury and then a stroke. We haven't exactly progressed on fixing that.

Steiner had a nerve injury (I think pinched nerve caused by bulging disc). My uncle actually had that recently. Takes forever to go away, incredibly painful. Can be healed by surgery which is sort of risky or by waiting it out (time varies).

Hogan jumped on his ass for 50 years. That is not good for the back.

I still don't see any specifics on the other guys and what surgeries are available today that could fix them.

HatchetMan84 01-29-2017 07:10 PM

Not sure if I missed it, but Bret Hart was another wrestler who famously was on Lloyds of London. In fact, in his autobiography he said that they initially did not believe his concussion was "career ending", to the point that they kept sending him to different doctors and i think at one point even observed him working out in the ring to try and disprove that he was legit injured. Bret ended up suing them for the amount that he was supposed to be paid, and won in Federal Court, if i remember reading his story correctly.

HBK was never on Lloyds of London i don't think. He really didn't need to be because at the time that his injury occurred, he had just signed a big WWF contract that was paying him $750,000 a year guaranteed money, which i believe was for like five years, because Shawn said one of the things about him coming back was renegotiating his contract that essentially turned it into paying him for each match that he wrestled in his "comeback". It was not until late 2003 that he signed a regular talent contract again, content in his belief that he could hold up again to a full schedule...

THTRobtaylor 01-31-2017 05:29 PM

The main reason Bret had issues was that several guys had openly abused the system in the early to mid 90's. Notably Curt Hennig.

The idea is that you could insure yourself at Lloyds for unique things, like your smile, your hands if you were a pianist etc. Some wrestlers took out policies to cover their bodies in the event of being unable to work in the ring any longer due to injury. As has been stated, surgical procedures were not as advanced and there were no guaranteed deals. You didn't work, you starved - especially if you're back etc was wrecked. They could also cover you if you got an injury like Brian Adams/Crush did in 93 - where you're legit out for a year. Vince wasn't paying guys back then like he does today - so to keep your lifestyle going, fund rehab and stay afloat the policies were useful.

The first 2 high profile cases were Curt Hennig and Animal.

Animal was out for 2 years on his yet Hennig was "active" as an "Executive Assistant" for Ric Flair within months. What he was doing was still VERY close to the definition of his "retired" job.

He didn't "work matches in the ring", but was still involved in physicality from the outside during much of that late 91/Early 92 period.This irked Lloyds and they began the process of tightening up on payouts to wrestlers as it was clear that injuries could in some cases not be as bad as they seemed or that far from being "unable to work"they could simply move out of matches and into other positions and still make an honest (albiet reduced) living.

Remember when Perfect suddenly became "just a commentator" rather than being involved with Flair? Mainly as a host on Prime Time? That was cos Lloyds would no longer pay out if he was an "active" character in matches and reduced his payout. It got to the point it wasn't in his financial interest not to return to the ring, so he did and then tried to claim he had aggrivated the injury to reactivate the payouts/get out of WWE around 1993. That worked to get him out the WWF deal but Lloyds were wise and lo and behold, he shows up at Mania X as a ref for the Luger/Yoko match and then does the commentary thing which by then Lloyds had cleared but soon after again, he's suddenly involved in matches again during the Marc Mero angle and planning an in ring comeback.

It's said that someone in the company informed Lloyds of this, perhaps as a threat against trying to go to WCW and they finally stopped paying Curt altogether. It was clear he COULD wrestle if he chose to.

Once he signed the WCW deal it was academic as he was then on guaranteed money and the need to show the severity of his injured back reduced.

Rick Rude claimed and stayed fully retired for 4 years, then returned in a similar way for ECW, then WWF then WCW and again was involved onscreen in an active role.

This kind of abuse led to the situation Bret faced, where a legit, career ending injury was being probed and assumed fake. Also bear in mind Bret's policy would be MUCH higher in value than the others. He was on 3m a year at WCW and would have expected to re-sign for at least 2m for another 3 years at the time, for either company. So his payout would be higher than any of the others and one the company didn't want to pay out on until it REALLY had to. When Bret returned for that one off in 2010 - it had to all be cleared through Lloyds to avoid legal trouble for Bret and them cancelling the payouts. They clearly DID sign off on it, but it's likely Vince was having to pay them or Bret rather then them for that time period.

Lloyds also had some financial trouble itself back around 1996 linked to asbestos claims, it nearly collapsed - all of this contributed to the situation where today, they won't insure wrestlers at all.

agentmichaelscarn 02-03-2017 05:07 AM

I always wondered why a company would insure a professional wrestler like that. The premiums must have been SKY HIGH, I mean being such a dangerous profession where injuries happen all the time, I would want a major premium to have to pay out multi millions of dollars to them.


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