Historic Scenario Changes

[finneycom1]

Here's a couple of questions to ponder and discuss:

What if......

The Original D-X (Michaels and Triple H) had been the ones to leave WWE and invade WCW? Would they have used them the same way they used Hall and Nash? WOuld their version of NWO been more/less successful?

What if........

WWE would have used two other wrestlers to form D-X other than Michaels and Triple H? Would they have been more/less successful than Michaels/Trips? What two active wrestlers (then) could have done what they did? If those two had left and Hall/Nash would have stayed, would they have used them to form D-X?

What if......

Bret Hart would have stayed in WWE? Would the Hart Foundation go on to become one of the greatest stables of all time. (I really liked that stable of Hart, Bulldog, Owen, Neidhardt, and Pillman, but their run didnt last a long time.)

I know this is alot of scenarios to throw out for one post, but, it just came to me a little while ago. Feel free to discuss one or all of them. I would like to know what you think.

[MrA317]

1. If HBK and HHH would've gone to WCW, I don't think the NWO would've ever been created, as I don't see Hogan and HBK co-existing in a stable together. Also I think Hall and Nash would've ended up following them to WCW eventually. Perhaps the 4 of them along with X-pac would've created their own super-heel faction. Hogan would've been WCW's super-face, joining with Sting and others to try to bring "The Outsiders" down. Also, I'm not to sure on the timeline, but had Michaels gone to WCW, he would not have taken the bump in the match against the Undertaker that eventually sidelined him for several years.

2. No HBK or HHH would've meant no DX, nuff said. Hall and Nash would've never been teamed up as they probably would've stayed in their Diesel/Razor gimmicks.

3. If Bret Hart were still in the WWE, Pillman would still be dead, Bulldog would still be dead, and Owen would probably be alive and well and go on to be a multiple WWE champ. Niedhardt would be retired. Bret would've had a legendary match against Kurt Angle somewhere down the line.

[Thugz417]

Here's a couple of questions to ponder and discuss:

What if......

The Original D-X (Michaels and Triple H) had been the ones to leave WWE and invade WCW? Would they have used them the same way they used Hall and Nash? WOuld their version of NWO been more/less successful?

What if........

WWE would have used two other wrestlers to form D-X other than Michaels and Triple H? Would they have been more/less successful than Michaels/Trips? What two active wrestlers (then) could have done what they did? If those two had left and Hall/Nash would have stayed, would they have used them to form D-X?

What if......

Bret Hart would have stayed in WWE? Would the Hart Foundation go on to become one of the greatest stables of all time. (I really liked that stable of Hart, Bulldog, Owen, Neidhardt, and Pillman, but their run didnt last a long time.)

I know this is alot of scenarios to throw out for one post, but, it just came to me a little while ago. Feel free to discuss one or all of them. I would like to know what you think.

1. If HHH/HBK went to WCW. We would be watching WCW Monday Nitro right now instead of WWE raw. It's that simple. WCW would have had the clique (Hall, Nash, HHH, HBK, X-Pac) as well as Sting, Luger, Hogan, The Giant, The Horsemen, and more than likely the Hart Foundation would have jumped or been signed to WCW. I honestly don't know if Owen/Pillman would still be around though

2. Hall/Nash wouldn't have stayed I bet. As WCW was offering huge cash to anyone that signed. Nash/Hall are the money grubbers and they go where the dolla bill is highest. WCW at that time

and
3. If Bret had stayed in the WWF he would have had a problem finding a decent feud if all of the above happened. I suppose he could have worked against the Taker, but then what? Yokozuna? Brother vs Brother? Bret leaves the Hart Foundation and picks them off 1 by 1? that could last a total of maybe 2-3 years and then what? Bret vs. WWF?

And if he had stayed after the "Screw Job" I think he would have lost all credibility with the fans as they would have seen him as a punching bag for Vince. I mean think about it... if the guy screws u in your own country in front of a world wide audience and it was REAL and you STAY....your a sucker.

[finneycom1]

1. If HHH/HBK went to WCW. We would be watching WCW Monday Nitro right now instead of WWE raw. It's that simple. WCW would have had the clique (Hall, Nash, HHH, HBK, X-Pac) as well as Sting, Luger, Hogan, The Giant, The Horsemen, and more than likely the Hart Foundation would have jumped or been signed to WCW. I honestly don't know if Owen/Pillman would still be around though

2. Hall/Nash wouldn't have stayed I bet. As WCW was offering huge cash to anyone that signed. Nash/Hall are the money grubbers and they go where the dolla bill is highest. WCW at that time

and
3. If Bret had stayed in the WWF he would have had a problem finding a decent feud if all of the above happened. I suppose he could have worked against the Taker, but then what? Yokozuna? Brother vs Brother? Bret leaves the Hart Foundation and picks them off 1 by 1? that could last a total of maybe 2-3 years and then what? Bret vs. WWF?

And if he had stayed after the "Screw Job" I think he would have lost all credibility with the fans as they would have seen him as a punching bag for Vince. I mean think about it... if the guy screws u in your own country in front of a world wide audience and it was REAL and you STAY....your a sucker.

Well, I should have put "If Bret stayed and The Montreal Screwjob never happened." Obviously, there's no chance in hell that he would have stayed after that. So, I meant to say if Montreal hadn't happened.

[foundation611]

I think its an interesting question I agree that the NWO would've never happened. HBK and HHH wouldn't have been the NWO with Hogan. Hogan made it sky rocket because of the magnitude of the heel turn. They probably would've done DX with a different name and the Clique really would've ended up there. So that would've been sick having that group all together in their prime basically. WWF would've probably gone down the toilet. DX was a big part of why they started to get popular at the time when they were literally down the crapper.

[Jersey Wannabe]

Assuming that Hall and Nash had not left at this point, We would have seen Nash continue his fued with Hall and they probably would have traded the World title a few times.
Vader would have been a major player and multiple time WWF champion.
And guys like Ron Simmons and Ahmed Johnson and Goldust would be main event fixtures.

With Shawn and Hunter gone , Bret would never form the Hart Foundation and turn heel, so SCSA would never reach the heights he did,by fueding with Bret.

[FallenAngelV2]

3. If Bret had stayed in the WWF he would have had a problem finding a decent feud if all of the above happened. I suppose he could have worked against the Taker, but then what? Yokozuna? Brother vs Brother? Bret leaves the Hart Foundation and picks them off 1 by 1? that could last a total of maybe 2-3 years and then what? Bret vs. WWF?


Now see I don't entirely agree with that. Instead of losing the WWF title at Wrestlemania 12, Bret could have won the WWF title. You could have either had Shawn beat Diesel at Survivor Series and face Bret or had Diesel make it to mania as champ to face Bret.

Then Bret could have followed a similar year's worth of title matches. vs. Diesel or Shawn, vs. Bulldog, vs. Vader, vs. Mankind, vs. Sid. They Could have had Hart and Austin start their feud just as it happened, but have Austin screw Bret out of the title at Survivor Series. Then you have Bret and Austin in their exact match at Mania. Maybe have them wrestle at Rumble with the match ending in a dq or something. Sid goes on to face the winner of the Royal Rumble The Undertaker. Taker wins, sets out on his reign as it was. Have Hart Foundation form just as it was. Then you have Bret beat Taker either at Summerslam or Survivor Series as a heel. Bret holds till mania and Austin wins Rumble leading to the Austin era beginning with a win over the Hitman. Then everything is back on course. Bret takes the summer off like he did win he lost to Shawn, then come back and hopefully have a fresh face like the Rock or somebody to feud with.

Now with that said, if the topic's scenario did take place, (HBK and HHH to WCW, Hall and Nash stay) the NWO would likely have never happened. Or if it did and Hogan was not a part of it, I doubt it would have been given the power to work out like it did and help WCW become big.

And perhaps even bigger than that, if Hart stays, there is no Montreal Screwjob meaning.....no Mr. McMahon. Where would the wwf have ended up without Austin vs. McMahon? If WCW never becomes as big as it was, then Vince may have never felt the need to bring in the Attitude era because he would have never been nearly driven out of business. I believe the boom of the late 90s would have never happened, at least of the degree that it did occur.

[HBK-aholic]

Here's a couple of questions to ponder and discuss:

What if......

The Original D-X (Michaels and Triple H) had been the ones to leave WWE and invade WCW? Would they have used them the same way they used Hall and Nash? WOuld their version of NWO been more/less successful?

This is a really hard one actually, I've never thought of this before. It could be argued that Triple H and Shawn Michaels are better wrestlers, therefore logically they should have been more successful. But also, I think the physical size of Nash and Hall meant something, I'm not sure if Shawn in particular would match up to them.

What if........

WWE would have used two other wrestlers to form D-X other than Michaels and Triple H? Would they have been more/less successful than Michaels/Trips? What two active wrestlers (then) could have done what they did? If those two had left and Hall/Nash would have stayed, would they have used them to form D-X?

I don't really think anyone else could have taken the place of either member and been as entertaining. There's something about Shawn's cheesy grin and Triple H's tone which just make them perfect for this, especially at the beginning of DX.

What if......

Bret Hart would have stayed in WWE? Would the Hart Foundation go on to become one of the greatest stables of all time. (I really liked that stable of Hart, Bulldog, Owen, Neidhardt, and Pillman, but their run didnt last a long time.)

Bret Hart now, would be in the same position Shawn Michaels is. I'd hope we could have seen them together, either against each other or as a tag-team in the last few years. Hart Foundation were one of the best stables in the WWE, I think it'd have eventually ran it's course, but would definately have a larger legacy.

[King Patrick]

Here's a couple of questions to ponder and discuss:

What if......

The Original D-X (Michaels and Triple H) had been the ones to leave WWE and invade WCW? Would they have used them the same way they used Hall and Nash? WOuld their version of NWO been more/less successful?

What if........

WWE would have used two other wrestlers to form D-X other than Michaels and Triple H? Would they have been more/less successful than Michaels/Trips? What two active wrestlers (then) could have done what they did? If those two had left and Hall/Nash would have stayed, would they have used them to form D-X?

What if......

Bret Hart would have stayed in WWE? Would the Hart Foundation go on to become one of the greatest stables of all time. (I really liked that stable of Hart, Bulldog, Owen, Neidhardt, and Pillman, but their run didnt last a long time.)

I know this is alot of scenarios to throw out for one post, but, it just came to me a little while ago. Feel free to discuss one or all of them. I would like to know what you think.

This is going to be fun!!

If DX were the ones to go to WCW and the Outsiders were the ones to stay in the WWE, I think, both the N.W.O and DX would never have happened. The lives of these 4 men would not be as “great” as they are now, that’s for sure. There is no way HBK or HHH would have been elevated in WCW. HBK might have been pushed the same way as Jeff Hardy is pushed today, but that’s about it. Bret would not have been screwed and may have stayed in the WWE. HHH would have been teamed or associated with HBK, but he was, at the time, the weakest link in the Clique. Nash would be Diesel and Hall would be Razor and the “be yourself” characters would never have happened in the WWE. Remember, HHH would not have been “punished” for the MSG Incident, therefore the Ringmaster would never have gone Stone Cold. Then again, I could see a WM XIV, maybe XV, Main Event between the Hitman and Stone Cold with Tyson as the Ref. Interesting. Would Jim Ross bring out a fake HBK and fake HHH?? Anyway, I just can’t see Hickenbottom / Levesque and Diesel / Razor Ramon being more successful than Shawn Michaels / Triple H and Nash / Hall. Great thought provoking thread!!

Oh and the Hart Foundation would have been even greater than they already are. With all the “incidents” that happened with Bret from 96 onward, imagine the Hitman without the negative $#!+.

I completely forgot about Mr. McMahon.

[savagelegacy]

3. If Bret Hart were still in the WWE, Pillman would still be dead, Bulldog would still be dead, and Owen would probably be alive and well and go on to be a multiple WWE champ. Niedhardt would be retired. Bret would've had a legendary match against Kurt Angle somewhere down the line.

Bret Hart in WWE doesn't mean that Owen wouldn't have been in the rafters in KC.

Niedhardt wouldn't have had a legendary anything with anyone. He was simply the muscle for the group and couldn't wrestle himself out of a bag.

[y2empleh]

What if HBK/HHH and Nash/Hall reversed rolls with HBK/HHH being the ones to jump ship?

I agree with the masses in that you would see Nash and Hall not form a team but rather stay Razor and Diesel. They don't have the mentality to become Degeneration X nor would they have made the transition to "the outsiders" because Vince likes having his own names and characters. The intriguing part of this question is "would hbk/hhh/hogan form nWo or degeneration X? I don't see these 3 maintaining the "cool" aspect of nWo. Nash and Hall were believable with their "we're coming in to take over because we are better then all of you" and seeing Nash bounce Rey Mysterio's head off the tv truck was believable. Hogan's eventual turn gave the faction massive heat and also credibility. With that said I think he could do the same to an nWo with HHH/HBK. I don't see hogan going with a heel "degenerate" theme, however I do feel that they could stick with an nWo who lived with the motto "we'll do what we want, when we want, because we can" with them invading the TV trucks and so forth. While I can see it happening I'm not entirely sure it would have gone over anywhere nearly as well as the original.

What if Montreal never happened and Bret stayed with the WWE? Would the Hart foundation still reign supreme?

A huge factor in this would be would Bret's presence have stopped the unfortunate deaths of Owen, Pillman, and Bulldog. For the sake of my argument, let's assume all 3 are still alive and let's also assume that he maintained the same whiny heel character which ultimately led to stone cold reaching high status. Let's assume that the original DX of HBK/HHH is still there as well. I believe had bret stayed, the Hart foundation would have gone on to become HUGE and yes I do believe the rub would ultimately give Owen a world title run. Wrestlemania would have been DX vs Bulldog/Owen with Bret/Austin main eventing.

[MrA317]

Bret Hart in WWE doesn't mean that Owen wouldn't have been in the rafters in KC.

Actually Bret Hart has stated on many occasions that if he were still in the WWE at the time, he would've tried to talk Owen out of doing that stunt. Also Owen probably wouldn't have been stuck in the Blue Blazer gimmick if Bret was still there, negating the idea of having him fly down from the rafters like a superhero anyway.


Niedhardt wouldn't have had a legendary anything with anyone. He was simply the muscle for the group and couldn't wrestle himself out of a bag.

Try re-reading my last post, friend. I never said anything about Niedhardt having legendary matches, I stated that Niedhardt would be retired and that Bret would probably have a legendary match with Kurt Angle somewhere down the line.

[SenorAmazing]

Basically if HHH and HBK left for WCW, Hall and Nash would have followed them. The super stable (not NWO) that would have ensued would have been epic. Vince McMahon would have been so out of business that stevie wonder could have seen the look on his face. The WCW main event matches would have probably been of far better quality, especially the possiblility of a Sting vs. HBK match. If all that happened it wouldn't matter if Bret Hart stayed with WWE as WWE would be out of business and we would be tuning in to Nitro every monday.

[bxbigshow]

Remember, HHH would not have been “punished” for the MSG Incident, therefore the Ringmaster would never have gone Stone Cold.


I think this is the key to the discussion. Assuming roles were reversed, then HHH and HBK's contract would've been expired, they were free to leave. Razor and Diesel would be the ones under contract. Now a few things...

HBK would've lost the title, maybe by dropping it or stripping it or...screwjob??? In any case there would've been no way Vince lets HBK leave WWE with the belt. And I doubt Diesel would've had it either.

This is key to whether or not MSG would've happened. Would Nash or Hall have the balls to do what they did in MSG when they weren't protected after Michaels leaves? HBK was spared because he was champ, Trips took the brunt of it leading to SCSA. I don't think they had that stroke in the back without HBK, so I doubt it would've happened.

So then Diesel and Razor stay at WWE with Vince keeping an eye on'em. Don't make'em too big because they'd had too much control, yet keep'em happy enough to not care to leave.

I honsetly don't know how the rest would play out but the MSG Incident was the 1st time in mainstream pro wrestling (then) acknowledged the real Clique. So without that, things would've been different.

Bichoff already had an idea for an invading faction, he MIGHT have still went with Levesque/Hickenbottom (although they might've shortened it to Hicks because Hickenbottom doesn't evoke fear/terror...I'd laugh my a$$ off.) Savage would've probably been the 3rd since he was 'heel' at the time anyways.

Although Hogan could've done it, and if it became as big...his ego would've kept him playing along. If it didn't, then HHH/HBK jumps him out of the group going straight red/yellow again.

DX couldn't happen, it was based not only on the NWO 'rebel' aspect but it played off of HBK's immaturity/pranks and I don't think that was Hall/Nash's personality.