I Can't Think Of A Title, Seriously

[Y 2 Jake]

The Ringmaster & Rocky Maivia were shit. But they were given an oppertunity and WWE rolled with it. They were allowed to cut different style promos and they were allowed to improve. As such two of the biggest stars ever were made.

Today you've got wrestlers cutting very similar promos, wrestling the same style and no superstars are being made. Cena is probably on more of a level with Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels than he is Hogan & Austin.

WWE needs new stars, they've got a new show, they've got ECW where the undercard matches don't lead to PPV matches. Why not give two wrestlers a week two minutes to cut a promo that they've come up with themselves and a match that they go through themselves with little help from anybody else. If it's on ECW it doesn't matter if it's a clusterfuck, it's not like anybody remembers ECW matches anyway. But if they succeed then they can run with it.

Also what would have happened with The Ringmaster & Rocky Maivia today? They probably would have been on ECW or they would have been fighting around for a spot on Raw, not getting over.

[bulldog76]

Austin and Rock were smart. They saw opportunities to break out and did. They gained the trust of creative. I've said this and I fully stand by it, The Attitude Era was great but succeeded because of who carried it. You can blame it on a PG format but many guys were given edgy stuff before that didn't work. The times it did work, it seemed like it was always the same few that was doing it (Austin, Rock, Triple H, HBK). Others have had a degree of success and may have made a segment or two work. But are they the guys that you can count on night in and night out? And can they consistently bring the edge to the show? That is up for debate.

Ultimately, I feel it falls on the stars and their connection with creative. If creative has nothing for you, don't just sit by and wait to be wished well in future endeavors. Come up with something yourself. That is how companies determine who to lay-off in crunch times; who is expendable and doing nothing really necessary.

[jrumpi]

Austin and Rock were smart. They saw opportunities to break out and did. They gained the trust of creative. I've said this and I fully stand by it, The Attitude Era was great but succeeded because of who carried it. You can blame it on a PG format but many guys were given edgy stuff before that didn't work. The times it did work, it seemed like it was always the same few that was doing it (Austin, Rock, Triple H, HBK). Others have had a degree of success and may have made a segment or two work. But are they the guys that you can count on night in and night out? And can they consistently bring the edge to the show? That is up for debate.

Ultimately, I feel it falls on the stars and their connection with creative. If creative has nothing for you, don't just sit by and wait to be wished well in future endeavors. Come up with something yourself. That is how companies determine who to lay-off in crunch times; who is expendable and doing nothing really necessary.

Dude I get what you are saying but its not rely true , go read jim cornets blog in his web site he says it as it is . The problem is with in the creative not the wrestlers . These days the creative or the writers they will tell you what to do and what to say exactly and the worst part about it is that almost 60% of the creative team are not even long time wrestling fans or never were if they get a chance in hollywood they will jump in a blink.
What I am trying to say here is how the creative process these days is passionless and so opposite of what it was 10 years ago . stone cold and the rock were both in the right place in the right time thats why they got over .wwf in that time was getting its ass kicked so if there stupid gimmick didnt work (which it does not work and never will ) they would accept any ideas and + back then you had bookers you had contact with your creative people , now its like a business where you are doing what you are told and if you opened your mouth you get heat and start jobbing for 3 years. now the market has changed as vince said (its all about the money ) wwe does not want to risk and trust a guy fearing that he might fail so they are being so defensive by sticking with cena and batista and hbk which eventually in the near future will turn on them and will make them fall in there ass . so in summary do not blame the wrestlers blame the creative but its not the creative teams fault its the person who hired them {VINCE }who in my opinion is out of his mind and needs to step back !!! he is gone mad with power lol . proof watch him on espn 360 .

[THE Madcap]

Totally agree with you Jake, out of the 6 hours programming the WWE put out per week, it really wouldn't hurt to have 5 mins to give someone the ball and run with it. The problem is though, that because of the PG rating (yes I went there) it really is risky to have a wrestler who hasn't earnt the main event promo trust, to go out with a mic and say whatever he wants unscripted, although I guess they could do it on any of the taped shows...

Also, I don't see why people expect the Chairman of the company to not want to sit in the creative meetings. The whole of his business lies in the balance of what his staff decide to put out there week after week. I sure as hell wuld sit in the creative meetings if I was in his shoes.

[Blade]

But in fairness, they are making a small effort to let people build themselves up.

Miz was on Raw, giving a promo about how he can beat Cena. When Cena didn't come out, he claimed he held a victory over Cena. No interruptions or anything. It was just 5 or 6 minutes of pure Miz. Which was also 5 or 6 minutes of fuck all crowd reaction.

I find this weird, as it reminds me of Jericho in WCW. Jericho did a cool angle in WCW where he wrestled a midget version of Goldberg. Obviously he beat the midget, and claimed he was 1 - 0 against Goldberg. Then he cut a promo the following week calling out Goldberg. Goldberg didn't show up so Jericho said he was now 2 - 0 against Goldberg. This angle helped Jericho get over in a company where it was extremely difficult for young guys to get over. And not only was Jericho young, but he was also a cruiserweight and he had almost no support from the WCW creative team, but he still managed to get over.
Jericho was over in that environment, yet Miz can't get over in WWE, a company which is much friendlier to young talent.

My point is, WWE simply doesn't have very many young guys with natural ability or young guys who have a decent amount of experience under their belts. The Rock was one of the most naturally talented guys in wrestling history. He took to the business like a duck to water. And Austin had been wrestling experienced guys in WCW and ECW. That along with his natural charisma helped him become a star.

The problem is, Vince is putting everything on Cena to be a megastar. But Cena simply doesn't have it in him. Cena should be a main eventer. But he shouldn't be the company defining star that Vince is trying to make him. Vince is trying to convince himself that Cena is the second coming of The Rock, and is putting most of his time into Cena. Cena is no Rock, the fans would never boo a face Rock like they boo a face Cena.
Vince needs to realise that Cena isn't the saviour of the WWE, and he needs to start looking for the real saviour.

[bulldog76]

Dude I get what you are saying but its not rely true , go read jim cornets blog in his web site he says it as it is . The problem is with in the creative not the wrestlers . These days the creative or the writers they will tell you what to do and what to say exactly and the worst part about it is that almost 60% of the creative team are not even long time wrestling fans or never were if they get a chance in hollywood they will jump in a blink.
What I am trying to say here is how the creative process these days is passionless and so opposite of what it was 10 years ago . stone cold and the rock were both in the right place in the right time thats why they got over .wwf in that time was getting its ass kicked so if there stupid gimmick didnt work (which it does not work and never will ) they would accept any ideas and + back then you had bookers you had contact with your creative people , now its like a business where you are doing what you are told and if you opened your mouth you get heat and start jobbing for 3 years. now the market has changed as vince said (its all about the money ) wwe does not want to risk and trust a guy fearing that he might fail so they are being so defensive by sticking with cena and batista and hbk which eventually in the near future will turn on them and will make them fall in there ass . so in summary do not blame the wrestlers blame the creative but its not the creative teams fault its the person who hired them {VINCE }who in my opinion is out of his mind and needs to step back !!! he is gone mad with power lol . proof watch him on espn 360 .

"Ultimately, I feel it falls on the stars and their connection with creative."

Note the bold word.

"wwf in that time was getting its ass kicked so if there stupid gimmick didnt work (which it does not work and never will ) they would accept any ideas and + back then you had bookers you had contact with your creative people , now its like a business where you are doing what you are told and if you opened your mouth you get heat and start jobbing for 3 years. now the market has changed as vince said (its all about the money ) wwe does not want to risk and trust a guy fearing that he might fail so they are being so defensive by sticking with cena and batista and hbk which eventually in the near future will turn on them and will make them fall in there ass."

This was your quote. What you are saying here is there is not connection. I agree 100%. I don't know if it is wrestlers sucking, creative sucking or a combination. Austin and Rock were far from the first to come up with their own ideas for the direction of their character. The Kliq did this and became hated for having too much creative control. Coming up with something for yourself is an old practice. I don't know how protocol works now communication with creative. They still have agents. They can talk to Vince. So what is the worst that happens? Spend 3 years jobbing? If you weren't in that position to begin with (jobbing), there wouldn't be a need for talent to address a problem with the creative direction. You can't be afraid to fail. The issue I was addressing is why are there no new stars being made.

I don't know what the problem is with their connection with creative is but said connection is not there.

A comment on Vince's power, he didn't get to where he is by taking chances he couldn't afford to lose on (with the exception of WrestleMania). As far as taking a chance on the attitude era, he was already losing. He couldn't be afraid to a chance. We can say what we want, but it is not us who have millions invested in this company and are trying to pass it on to our family.

[Toscah]

I stopped reading this thread when the OP said Cena was on the same page Bret Hart and HBK. I don't know where to began correcting that, my brain hurts, moron.

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

Toscah, Cena isn't on the same page as HBK and Bret Hart. He's better. He gets way more of a reaction than Hart unless its Wrestlemania 13 in Chicago with Stone Cold.

The Ringmaster & Rocky Maivia were shit. But they were given an oppertunity and WWE rolled with it. They were allowed to cut different style promos and they were allowed to improve

By all accounts, if it hadn't been for Jake Robert's masterful turn as a member of the Westboro baptist church, Stone Cold wouldn't have Austin 3:16.

Why not give two wrestlers a week two minutes to cut a promo that they've come up with themselves

I agree. Give Hornswoggle two minutes on the mic. 90 seconds of insance giggling followed by a farting out of his own version of "Ode to Joy"

No! Hold that thought, Festus can go over the finer intracacies of the ASEAN trade agreement between Asian countries and Australia. Kayfabe!

I really wanna see what the improvised promos would be like. Dont even tell the wrestler theyre doing it. Just give em a mic. God you have some great ideas Jake.

Give 2 minutes of promo time to each person? I mean god damn, they do some vignettes of that crap on TNA, "get to know the wrestler and cross the line, so its still a fake sport but we make it look legit". Don't need that crap on WWE.

The problem with the idea is that a lot of people see ECW as the "wrestling show" and they do have a solid amount of wrestling on the show. Also, only Morrison could cut a promo on it worth a shit. And even then he sounded like a douche. I mean are you kidding me? The Miz on RAW? I mean they weren't even booing him to get out of the ring. Just dead bored.

Pathetic.

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

Toscah, Cena isn't on the same page as HBK and Bret Hart. He's better. He gets way more of a reaction than Hart unless its Wrestlemania 13 in Chicago with Stone Cold.

The Ringmaster & Rocky Maivia were shit. But they were given an oppertunity and WWE rolled with it. They were allowed to cut different style promos and they were allowed to improve

By all accounts, if it hadn't been for Jake Robert's masterful turn as a member of the Westboro baptist church, Stone Cold wouldn't have Austin 3:16.

Why not give two wrestlers a week two minutes to cut a promo that they've come up with themselves

I agree. Give Hornswoggle two minutes on the mic. 90 seconds of insance giggling followed by a farting out of his own version of "Ode to Joy"

No! Hold that thought, Festus can go over the finer intracacies of the ASEAN trade agreement between Asian countries and Australia. Kayfabe!

I really wanna see what the improvised promos would be like. Dont even tell the wrestler theyre doing it. Just give em a mic. God you have some great ideas Jake.

Give 2 minutes of promo time to each person? I mean god damn, they do some vignettes of that crap on TNA, "get to know the wrestler and cross the line, so its still a fake sport but we make it look legit". Don't need that crap on WWE.

The problem with the idea is that a lot of people see ECW as the "wrestling show" and they do have a solid amount of wrestling on the show. Also, only Morrison could cut a promo on it worth a shit. And even then he sounded like a douche. I mean are you kidding me? The Miz on RAW? I mean they weren't even booing him to get out of the ring. Just dead bored.

Pathetic.

[The Todd]

I stopped reading this thread when the OP said Cena was on the same page Bret Hart and HBK. I don't know where to began correcting that, my brain hurts, moron.

Care to explain why it needs correcting? Say one thing about moveset and you'll end up being the moron.

There is no harm whatsoever in giving the youngsters two minutes for a promo. I know we will miss that eighth recap of RAW, but for all we know Tyson Kidd could be extremely charismatic. One promo and he could elevate himself to the top of ECW.

As for the one who said ECW is a wrestling show, I think you're getting at Raw is the show for promos. Miz aside, when was the last time someone cut a promo who hasn't main evented a ppv in their career? The midcard need that one chance to prove themselves. Charisma is more important than doing the perfect suplex in getting over with the crowd.

[Toscah]

Ok, my apologies people, calling the OP a moron for posting his opinion was wrong of me, I'll admit it, alcohol had the better of me when I posted that.
But I did seriously stop reading when I saw that, Cena is by far the biggest POS I've seen in awhile. Who cares if he can talk better behind a mic when his in ring ability is garbage. Anyone remember what Goldberg did to Mr. Hart? Yeah.