Should Vince Retire?

[weird86]

We all have argued on this forum. I have said from the get go WM 25 will simply suck besides Taker HBK and the Hardys.

Those that argued with me ESP by saying HHH and Orton would deliver I think after watching this PPV everyone can agree this was a waste of $55-65 dollars.

My point is this. Is it time for Vince to let it go, and let someone else run the show?

My look is when you essentially f*!k WRESTLEMANIA 25 up (which is safe to say Vince put most this together) that its time to let it go. He's not in with what the fans want (watch/listen to the reaction after HHH won) everyone at that stadium and at home was just waking up when his music went off. True Vince didnt wrestle this match, but we were bored because he put two people that we know work mediocore at best with each other in the ME AGAIN!

[Lord Sidious]

We all have argued on this forum. I have said from the get go WM 25 will simply suck besides Taker HBK and the Hardys.

Those that argued with me ESP by saying HHH and Orton would deliver I think after watching this PPV everyone can agree this was a waste of $55-65 dollars.

My point is this. Is it time for Vince to let it go, and let someone else run the show?

My look is when you essentially f*!k WRESTLEMANIA 25 up (which is safe to say Vince put most this together) that its time to let it go. He's not in with what the fans want (watch/listen to the reaction after HHH won) everyone at that stadium and at home was just waking up when his music went off. True Vince didnt wrestle this match, but we were bored because he put two people that we know work mediocore at best with each other in the ME AGAIN!

I've been arguing this point for several months.

And people have given Stephanie McMahon static for Creative over the past several years, but after seeing what I've seen and the reports that have come out over the past few months, I am inclined to believe it is Vince McMahon who is almost entirely at fault for Creative.

Him getting into an argument with Michael Hayes, when Hayes was trying to increase Smackdown's ratings, was a Major Strike as far as I'm concerned. He essentially blew up at his writers for a 1.9 rating a few weeks ago. Then, when Hayes tries to give everyone a good show for the 500th Special, Vince essentially tells him that he doesn't give a shit about his show, and wants more focus on Mania. A lot of good that did.

Is Vince losing his mind? You can't expect to have a good PPV turnout if you don't properly hype your television shows, to begin with. Basic fundamentals.

Then, we heard where he had his writers fly down to Florida at his condo for a meeting, which he cancels at the last minute, and tells everyone to fly back to Stamford, and that Stephanie is going to conduct a meeting over the phone with them, instead. Reports were even Stephanie was upset at Vince.

Then, going back in time, it was supposed to be Cena/Orton and Triple H/Edge, which I still think was what they should have went with. But Vince over-reacted to the IWC being on to his "secret Mania plans" so he made the decision to switch the matches. What was the result of this rash decision on his part? Giving the fans not one, but TWO overly stale feuds in Triple H vs Orton (which has been done to death) and John Cena vs Edge (which has also been done to death). This decision right here took Mania down several notches. This is not a PPV where you want to recycle stale and overdone feuds. And he did just that. BAD MOVE.

Then, of course, we see a terribly disappointing PPV last night.

Given his erratic behavior, and the results of his actions in his finished product ... I am inclined to agree that something needs to be done about Vince, because he just doesn't have it anymore. I am not going to say that the man should retire as Chairman, but CLEARLY the man needs to be removed from the Creative Process.

[kenvin100]

Vince was obviously incredibly desperate...I went to WWE.com and I heard they were offering free dvds and whatnot if peopel had ordered the webcast..I guess it was obvious right, look at all those gimmick matches..in the end, almost every single match involved a weapon of sorts..whether it was smashing into black gates, falling on top of tables, video cameras (I thought Taker broke his neck or something, honestly that was gross!), having extreme rules, no dq matches, lumberjack title unification matches, (Mysterio's match was a joke..thas y he dressed like joker, should've seen that coming) it was safe to say WM25 is one to forget

ITs funny how WWE assumes things will go great when they hit milestones..recall WMXX..I really dont remember that one...except Benoit and Guerrero's performance..oops did I say Benoit?

[weird86]

We all have argued on this forum. I have said from the get go WM 25 will simply suck besides Taker HBK and the Hardys.

Those that argued with me ESP by saying HHH and Orton would deliver I think after watching this PPV everyone can agree this was a waste of $55-65 dollars.

My point is this. Is it time for Vince to let it go, and let someone else run the show?

My look is when you essentially f*!k WRESTLEMANIA 25 up (which is safe to say Vince put most this together) that its time to let it go. He's not in with what the fans want (watch/listen to the reaction after HHH won) everyone at that stadium and at home was just waking up when his music went off. True Vince didnt wrestle this match, but we were bored because he put two people that we know work mediocore at best with each other in the ME AGAIN!

Yes HHH has power, but was it HHH that begged Vince to be in the ME, or was it Vince that said screw it hes my son in law he is in the ME? If HHH begged, Vince should of had the balls to say look we have done Orton and you way to much (he said this for Cena and Edge, and didnt have a problem adding Big Show) and you guys dont work WM ME quality together.

[LCShazardous]

well you do know that the wrestlers in the match decide on how they're going to work the match and Vince along with the rest of creative gets to pick the winner before hand. plus orton and HHH don't have any good chemistry in that ring..

one thing i know is that Vince is the guy who put WWE on the map and i think if WWE didn't have Vince McMahon it would never be the same again. plus one thing is that people either love Vince or love to hate Vince. soo he's good with the company in my eyes

[bluejt16]

are you mentally retarded and blind? it seems like it, WM 25 was one of the best manias in recent years, the MITB was one of the best, the extreme rules match was good, abit of violence in any wrestlemania is always useful, the triple threat didn't disappoint me at all, cenas strength at the end was mind boggling, HHH randy could have gone better but still a good match, the handicap match was boring but steamboat totally amazed everyone with his athleticism, 24 gorgeous divas wrestling was fun to watch, and santinas dancing at the end was funny as f*** but to top the whole event off, you had the match of the year, WWE can try to top it in the next 8 months but the undertaker vs shawn michaels was something else, they truly shown why they are still at the top of their game.

now onto vince mcmahon, are you serious!?!?!?!?! VKM retiring! WTF, he created WWE, yes he has f***ed up with this PG crap but i don't think they have done alot of PG rated stuff lately, randy orton kicking an old man in the skull, rko and DDT on steph, HHH breaking and entering, brother admitting to burning his brothers house down, i think it's going alright. vince made WWE and the only thing that will stop him being the boss will be his death.

[Lord Sidious]

Just a point to make.

I am in favor of Vince retiring. Not from the entire company. But I am 100% in favor of Vince retiring from the Creative Process. I think the business has passed him by, and I don't think he is suitable to make Creative decisions anymore. I feel he has lost touch with what the fans want.

Now, I see people arguing "How can Vince retire? He built wrestling." etc. etc. etc.

Well, nobody is denying he did that. But as people get older sometimes the business changes and they can not adapt to it .... or sometimes the individual himself changes. In this case, I think it's a little bit of both.

So there is no disrespecting Vince's accomplishments of the past, but it is time for him as far as Creative is concerned, for him to pass the torch and give 100% of the book over to either Shane or Stephanie. That way, he can focus on strictly being the Chairman of the Board for the company.

Hell, I even went so far to suggest he go back to being the Raw Play by Play commentator. That way, he can attract lost viewers back to the show, in seeing him in that position every night ... can contribute on the mic to helping get angles over on TV (like he used to do in this position), and still be seen on television and a part of the show. In this case, he would let Stephanie and Triple H run the backstage area and start gradually giving them more authority.

But Vince screwed up big time by switching the Mania Main Events from what they were intended to be, by over-reacting to the Internet. Cena vs Orton would have turned out much better than what we saw last night. No doubt about it. Plus, that feud hasn't been beaten into the ground like Triple H and Orton.

Also, Edge vs Triple H has never, to my knowledge, had a long term singles rivalry. This would have given people something new to look forward to for the show. Instead, like Orton/Triple H, Vince gave us yet another feud that has been beaten into the ground ... Edge vs Cena. And Show was added to try to differentiate it, but it didn't help. It was still really Edge/Cena, at the end of the day.

So that was a piss poor decision by over-reacting to the IWC, that resulted in 2 feuds main eventing Mania that have been absolutely beaten into the ground.

Him blowing up at Michael Hayes was uncalled for. Another sign of Vince aging and his decision making skills to be questioned. Hayes was only trying to give Vince a good show leading up to Mania, and Vince berates him for actually worrying about Smackdown. Well, if Vince doesn't give a shit about Smackdown, why did he blow up a week or two prior when he received a 1.9 rating? Hayes was only trying to help by getting the show back on track, and Vince reverses course, by telling him that he doesn't give a damn about Smackdown. Seem to me that putting on good television leading up to Mania is a good investment, to hopefully get more people to buy the PPV, Vince. But what do I know? Maybe that's too logical.

Then, he canceled his Creative meeting in Florida at the last minute and told everyone to fly back to Stamford. This was when Creative was already at wit's end with him changing his mind on a day-to-day-basis. Pretty unprofessional, but not surprising. It's no wonder even Stephanie was getting frustrated with him.

Yeah, it's time for Vince to move on from Creative. The problem is that he isn't going to do it on his own because his ego is too big. It needs to be family, like Stephanie, Shane, and Triple H that can help Vince see that it's time to let go.

[OIL]

Vince is the greatest person in this industry right now. Why the fuck would you want him to go? Because you don't agree with his opinions? If Vince wanted Triple H to win, so be it. I don't agree with it at all, but Vince is the guy who makes the decisions and not everyone is going to be happy all of the time. He's doing fine backstage, and is loved on-screen wherever the WWE go. Vince won't go for a very long time, and I'm glad.

[speedy316]

Wrestling wouldnt be the same without VKM? True. Is different necessarily bad? Not True! cant be any worse than the tripe the turff out at this moment and Wrestlemania proved it. Sometimes i think VKM read these message boards just so he knows what we think and then take it in the opposite direction! The man either thinks he still knows what we like, or is trying to force what he likes on us.

"Maybe if i give them one more John Cena/Edge match the will like this one"!
"If we keep John Cena as champ maybe we will like it eventually, if he is champ his entire career then by the end the fans might have learned to love him!

and of course we will probably be hearing JR shout at a Wrestlemania in the near future"

"Triple H at the age of 50 is 24 time WWE champ"

So yes built wrestling into what it is today and we thank him but its like when your mate hogs the controller for a good computer game we all say

"come on let me have a go"

VINCE let someone else have a go!!!!!!!

[Lord Sidious]

Vince is the greatest person in this industry right now. Why the fuck would you want him to go? Because you don't agree with his opinions? If Vince wanted Triple H to win, so be it. I don't agree with it at all, but Vince is the guy who makes the decisions and not everyone is going to be happy all of the time. He's doing fine backstage, and is loved on-screen wherever the WWE go. Vince won't go for a very long time, and I'm glad.

This is where I think some fans have their mentalities somewhat mixed up. In how many businesses do you have the business owner tell the customer what they should be liking? Vince stated on Raw a couple years ago in an obvious worked shoot remark that "He will tell the fans what they want to see, and they will like it." Obviously, that was the real Vince McMahon coming out in making a pompous statement like that.

No. I will not be told as a customer what I should be seeing and enjoying. I have my own opinions of what I should be seeing and enjoying, thank you very much. Your job is to cater to me if you want my money. I don't cater to you, so you can take my money at the same time.

But, it's not so much finishes in terms of who wins or loses that I have a problem with. I have a problem with the overall creative direction of the product. The move to PG, which has been obvious has been several years in the making, and not offering fans of edgy programming anything in return ... is a move that I personally vehemently disagree with. Although I have elaborated on that I do think it is possible to provide both, and have detailed as such in other threads, to keep both the young fans AND the adults happy.

Furthermore, Vince may be "loved" onscreen, but that doesn't mean he isn't becoming a detriment backstage. And from all reports, he has in fact, become a detriment backstage. Given the creative direction of the product, I think the man has simply lost his touch, and has actually lost his touch for a couple of years now, to be frank.

As far as him being enjoyed as a character on screen, he can be a commentator like the old days ... or pop in every so often on TV ... so the fans can still see the guy.

But he is causing more harm than good backstage, from basically all internal reports ... as well as what I see as the customer, in his finished product.

[Y 2 Jake]

Retire so Stephanie & Triple H can take control? No thanks. They're all practically the same. But at least Vince has proven that he can promote compelling wrestling. Stephanie McMahon has proven that she's almost inept in every way possible.

[Sparky]

We all have argued on this forum. I have said from the get go WM 25 will simply suck besides Taker HBK and the Hardys. The money in the bank was good minus the ending. the divas thing was entertaining, HHH vs Orton was good after watching it once I had calmed dwn from the undertaker match. It was a good pay perview.

Those that argued with me ESP by saying HHH and Orton would deliver I think after watching this PPV everyone can agree this was a waste of $55-65 dollars.
I think it was well worth the $35 I paid for it. It had good match's and the only thing I didnt enjoy at all was the kid rock concert.
My point is this. Is it time for Vince to let it go, and let someone else run the show?
:headscratch: Are you saying it or asking a question.
My look is when you essentially f*!k WRESTLEMANIA 25 up So a few people on here said it was fucked up. Don't mean all the people that don't post on an internet forum will agree. and as we all see Vince aint really catering for us now is he?(which is safe to say Vince put most this together) He wouldn't of been the only one.that its time to let it go. He's not in with what the fans want (watch/listen to the reaction after HHH won)How do you know what the fans want as a whole? are you the official spokesmen? everyone at that stadium and at home was just waking up when his music went off. and why was that? becuse they was tired from watching the HBK vs Undertaker match. also they had been there for four hours.True Vince didnt wrestle this match, but we were bored because he put two people that we know work mediocore at best with each other in the ME AGAIN!It was a good match. Watch it again. the storyline was good and the match actually fit into the story line. unlike others who was just fighting for silly reasons, HHH wanted to kill orton. and he did.

[Lord Sidious]

Retire so Stephanie & Triple H can take control? No thanks. They're all practically the same. But at least Vince has proven that he can promote compelling wrestling. Stephanie McMahon has proven that she's almost inept in every way possible.

I used to have that same mentality ... but seeing what I have seen out of Vince this past year, given his behavior ... I think essentially that it is not really Stephanie that is in charge of Creative. I think technically she is, but I think it is in name only. I actually think Vince is the one mostly responsible for what has been on our screens since she has been in charge of Creative, more so than her.

When Vince completely steps away from the picture, and it is solely Stephanie in charge, than we can hold her 100% accountable. Until then, my money is on Vince being the one causing most of the Creative problems, as evidenced by his behavior.

[Phoenix]

I think the fact is that we all know one day will come where Vincent Kennedy McMahon will step away from the product and play a role similiar to Bill Gates at Microsoft, no active involvement but getting the money for his innovation. I remember reading that even Stephanie has been shocked by his behaviour, especially with the dragging of writers around and cancelling the meetings, etc.

If anything, everyone goes on about Stephanie and Triple H running company, has everyone forgotten about Shane? I don't know about you, but you think that he's a person who could do some great creative, he can put 110% into a match, alot better than Vince, he's viewed as someone who is a leader as seen in kayfabe.

I think that the moment Vince steps away, there would be some shakeups, I think some guys like Hayes would be gone under Shane and Stephanie (mainly the incident last year with Mark Henry). But whilst I can't see it happening for a while, I do agree that Vince's time to go is coming up...

[huntmaster86]

After readin about Stephanies power move backstage, would it be a good idea to have Vince retire?

I'm just wondering, does he hold the company back by having the 2 brands overseen by one person? If he retired, Stephanie took over Smackdown and Shane took over RAW, would it mean greater competition all round for the fans? I think its pretty obvious they would compete with each other, maybe run at as 2 seperate companies, more or less.

Before anyone says that TNA is in direct competition, I don't think its anywhere near challenging Smackdown or Raw for a good few years yet. they just don't have the characters that WWE has, or the production value, or the way WWE can appeal to key demographics.

Let me know your thoughts though. Would be interesting to see.

[TerryMagowan]

The Shane/Stephanie, Raw/Smackdown idea is very good..especially if they compete onscreen it would almost be like the stephanie/eric war in 2002 where you almost felt a hatred between both GM's and beleived they were really trying to do each other. Im totally behind that idea to be honest

As for TNA in "direct competition" with wwe, I could bet my bottom dollor that if TNA moved impact to the same timeslot they would get destroyed it wouldnt even trigger a monday night war as many have predicted in the past

so yeah, stephanie and shane taking over raw and smackdown sounds really good and it would get me watching each show every week for sure.

[Lord Sidious]

Well, I think outright calling for Vince's retirement is a bit drastic. But I do feel like he needs to alleviate some responsibilities from his workload.

Where as I am probably one of Vince's biggest critics on here, I honestly feel like his biggest problem is that he is entirely too involved in the Creative Process. I have given Stephanie a lot of static over the years on her job in Creative, but seeing how it was reported how Vince was behaving leading up to Mania, I think he is actually the biggest problem. In other words, my suspicions tell me that he is the one truly in charge of Day to Day operations in Creative, and I feel that through his direction, he is the main person responsible for why so many people are unhappy with the product in this day and age. I simply think Creatively speaking, the business has passed him by, and he doesn't want to admit it to himself. And because he refuses to do so, he gives his audience a lackluster product, and most recently, by many accounts, a very disappointing Mania.

So, the man needs to in the least keep his nose virtually completely out of the Creative Department, for the good of his company. However, I think he should stay on as Chairman at this point.

[tehblogger]

Well, I think outright calling for Vince's retirement is a bit drastic, whenever I see these types of threads come up. Where as I am probably one of Vince's biggest critics on here, I honestly feel like his biggest problem is that he is entirely too involved in the Creative Process. I have given Stephanie a lot of static over the years on her job in Creative, but seeing how it was reported how Vince was behaving, I think he is actually the biggest problem. In other words, he is the one truly in charge of Day to Day operations in Creative, and my own personal opinion is that he is the main person for why so many people are unhappy with the product in this day and age.

So, the man needs to in the least keep his nose virtually completely out of the Creative Department, for the good of his company. However, I think he should stay on as Chairman at this point.

Yup, I would agree with all of that. I suspect that the crappy booking for Wrestlemania was 90 percent Vince's fault, and I also I suspect that what we're seeing now is Vince being forced to take a step back and keep his fingers out of the cooking pot, with the promise of better results if he does so.

So far it seems to working pretty well. Certainly Smackdown Creative is riding the crest of a wave right now. Hopefully Vince doesn't meddle too much with RAW and lets the midcard there get pushed up too.

[Blade]

As already said, Vince has lost all creative inspiration when it comes to angles and all that area. He single handedly destroyed the Triple H/Orton angle by throwing shane in there to kick the crap out of the Legacy, which is ridiculous.

But in terms of talent, he should definately stay. Say what you want about his shortcomings on the creative front, he still has an eye for talent and will push whatever talent is best for the business. This is the man who saw the potential in The Rock, Austin, Cena etc... And now he's seeing the potential in guys like Punk and MVP to be main event talent.
And it was said that he never liked the Hardys but Jeff was the most over face in the company, so he got his albeit short reign as WWE champion. And he doesn't like Christian, but he came back to WWE hot as hell so he eventually gave Christian the ECW title and might even give him a proper world title in the future.

While Vince may have lost touch with the creative aspect, he's still pushing whatever talent is over and whatever talent will make the company some money. If Shane and Steph were in charge, guys like Hardy and Punk probably wouldn't have the chance that Vince gave them, especially since Triple H doesn't like either of those guys.

[wbuqed]

I think if nothing else it would make sense for Vince to keep himself out of wrestling angles for the forseeable (sp?) future, i mean he already had a family angle early in the year with Orton but never went through a "match" with orton. There was a couple raws where shane and steph on screen jostled for control but that seemed to fade away. The problem I would think would be that Steph and Shane don't have as much freedom to be as involved with the shows so frequently when you consider their personal lives with the children. So as much as Vince stepping back from the business sounds like a decent idea I don't think there is a direct fill in for Vinny-Mac

[huntmaster86]

ok, maybe retire was a little harsh. you do have to bear in mind though he is 64 this year. there's no doubt about it, his talent spotting is amazing, although in my opinion he has got it wrong a few times (e.g. christian). maybe step back, a more advisory role would be a little better perhaps?

[SavageTaker]

I think that saying Vince needs to retire is a little bit too much. What I think he needs for the good of the company and for himself is just an extended Vacation or leave or w/e you want to call it. He just needs a break. Maybe have him go out and take a Vacation with Linda and enjoy himself a little more. He just needs to recover a little because I think that he has gone through so much in his company and I really do think he feels Burned-out because he has never really taken a break. I know it's hard to break away because the WWE is like his baby and he might not feel confident in leaving it in someone's else's hands, but he has to learn that, that is going to be something he is going to have to do because he won't live forever.

He should then leave Stephanie and Shane be in charge of the company. I think that they are more than capable of running the company so just let them do it. If after a couple of months if Vince see's that nothing is getting done and nothing is improving then he could make the decision to return.

I actually liked your Idea of a brand vs brand rivalry between Shane and Steph. I think it could be the starting point of a new and fresh product even though it has been done before.

Also I agree that If they have Shane look over one brand and Steph over the other brand then it would work out better for everyone. Let's face it, if one person is looking over one brand and the other over the other brand then they will not get as burned out and that can help them make the show better. But when you have one person looking over all of the brands then it gives them un-needed stress and they will likely feels burnout faster, which is what I think Vince has.

[Crimson Mask]

Firstly, the idea of Vince retiring anytime soon is ridiculous; I don't think he's in any hurry to walk away from the business and nobody can push him into making a decision like that, either, not even Stephanie or Shane and even if he were to step down, I'm sure he would retain some interest in the company and Linda McMahon would probably retain her place as CEO.

As well as that, you would have to ask if WWE under Stephanie and/or Shane McMahon (and Triple H) would be any better run, even just from a creative stand-point than it is now? All three of them have a large amount of pull when it comes to the creative process (how much pull is up for debate), even through Vince has the final say on everything and because of that, they have to take some of the flak for the companies current lack of creative direction. Given what we've heard (althrough I would take "insider" reports with a grain of salt) of the way that Stephanie has reacted to those who disagree with planned creative direction-even long-time loyalists like Pat Patterson, as shown in October 2004, when he criticised the amount of screen-time given to Triple H shows how little creedence she gives to those whose ideas clash with her own, even when those ideas may be for the good of the company.

Althrough they will be running the company at some point, I don't see Vince McMahon leaving anytime soon and I don't think the beginning of an era of new owership of the company will bring too much of a change in creative direction, let alone some sort of huge angle that will help freshen the companies appeal.

[kingdirrtysouth1]

I don't know if you realize it, but Steph is currently the head writer on Raw & it sucks compared to Smackdown. Hell, the writing over all took a huge nosedive when she first took over a few years ago! Do you want her to ruin Smackdown? I think not!

[Hulkamania]

No one really knows if Steph or Shane hve any drastically different ideas form their father so Vince retiring might not be the answer.

[TL]

It would do Vince some good to take a leave of absence from the WWE, but it won't happen. The man lives and breathes this company. He controls every aspect of it and is the final word on what goes on TV. You really think he'll trust ANYONE else to do that? Even his kids? Nope. Not by a long shot. Just because the product's not up to par with what it has been the past few years doesn't mean Vince is doing a different job. He just has different people throwing worse ideas his way, and sometimes, one of them just might get on TV.

All he's trying to do is be more creative. He's tired of seeing the same show every week and the 'If it's not broke, don't fix it' mentality doesn't apply to him. If it isn't broken and it doesn't need fixed, he'll usually break it so it WILL need to be fixed. Shane and Stephanie have very little to say when it comes to Vince. Shane and Steph can pitch the greatest idea in wrestling history to Vince and if he doesn't like it...then it won't go on TV. So, as far as for the good of wrestling, it would be good for Vince to retire, because if he did, TNA might have a chance at catching up with the WWE.

Think about this...the storylines would be soooo much worse if Vince were gone. You'd have HHH, Stephanie, HBK, and whomever else's ideas being put on TV every week...and that might not be a good thing. It's like the inmates running the asylum in WCW. It'll cause a ripple effect that could be the downfall of the WWE>

[codebreaker212p]

I think Vince should have retired the day he turned wwe back to PG. I think he's holding a lot of people and a lot more action to a hault then there can be, the day he steps down, will be a great day for the wwe.

[Lord Sidious]

I think Vince should have retired the day he turned wwe back to PG. I think he's holding a lot of people and a lot more action to a hault then there can be, the day he steps down, will be a great day for the wwe.

I have no issue with Vince offering a PG product, as I understand the need for building a new base of fans for the audience of tomorrow.

However, the absolute BIGGEST issue I take with Vince is him ONLY offering one PG product across the board. Because while he is building a new audience of kids, he has gradually over the years sent his current audience of adults away. Which makes not a single shred of sense whatsoever.

But it was an experiment worth trying, as it has been years since Vince was last PG across the board, and that was in a different Era. Sure, through raising prices through the roof, and his new audience, as well as his base of diehards willing to pay those prices ... he is tremendously profitable ... which is the name of the game. I just think he is doing Long Term harm to the business.

If he expects to retain the majority of kids as they grow older and age, with the same PG rating, I think he is out of his mind. And being that so many adults have bolted over the years, I just don't see why he doesn't think the exact same thing is going to happen again, as the new base of kids grow older.

[The Deejish Invasion]

The thing what makes me laugh is that Vince is totally responsible for the Wrestling Industry, without him their would be no attitude era, no Classic WWF, no Raw, smackdown or ECW you cant just say he should outright leave just because his finger is no longer on the pulse of todays market.

What needs to be done is Vince needs to step away from the creative department, maybe allow others to book storylines and reshuffle creative so that the writers dont come up with stupid ideas and pathetic storylines.

[maar130]

Well, the idea of the brands competing with each other was only played on television but not backstage, actually Paul Heyman was taken out of the equation as Creative member for trying. Shane has never been that pro to actually being head of a show, so Vince or Steph with HHH look over everything, does not matter if it is Smackdown or Raw.

Vince retiring is not that great of Idea since he keeps somethings on line for the rest of creative and Steph too.

[General Disarray]

Should Vince retire? Probably not, but maybe. He is getting a little older and is somewhat of a control freak, but it is HIS company so he should be able to do what he wants with it. The WWE is actually pretty good nowadays, especially Smackdown.

Will Vince retire? Hell no! At least not anytime soon. The fact is, wrestling is his life. His grandfather and father were in the business, his wife is in the businees, his children are in the business. If Vince retire, what the hell would he do with his life? He stills loves being in charge and giving orders, and whether you like it or not, it's going to be that way for a long time.

[supersayian]

Vince has done his time and made wrestling all it can be. but he needs to leave now. i think Stephanie and Shane both have great ideas of where to go in the future. but with Vince it can not happen until he is out of the way. The PG rating i think had nothing to do with Vince. I think USA was going to take his product off if he did not make it more kid friendly. but i say most kids are in bred when RAW is on anyway so there is problem one secend most people who watch Raw are teens and expect a good show not kids crap. Smackdown is to blame there time slot is perfect for kids Friday night. i think if Smackdown went back to Thursdays they would see a major increase in ratings. Fridays are when most normal people work or go out for the night not stay in and watch wrestling. Smackdown was at its peak when on thursdays so why change it.

[MrMcCool]

Vince McMahon needs to stay, he just needs to be more open to other ideas but his own.

Hate him if you want, but Vince keeps WWE going, and watches over the whole company. If you take him out, and put in two people, with probably their own agendas, the product might be better as people THINK, but the company as a whole would suffer. Power struggles always bring down corporations, with Vince in charge all by himself, no power struggle, no problem.

As for the PG rating, whoever made the comment about him thinking he can keep the kids as they grow up with the same PG rating, is assuming, and you know what happens when u assume. Im sure this PG rating isnt forever, it builds a new fan base, then as that fan base grows up, the rating goes back slowly but surely. OH MY GOD, almost like he did the first time around leading up the the Attitude Era!!!! Maybe people should not bash Vince now, and think about the bigger picture because guess what, HE IS!!!!

Vince built WWE from the ground up, and turned the business mainstream, so why do people online think they know more than him. Let's see, how big are all of your corporations? Oh yeah, exactly!!!

They say that Vince Russo had all these great ideas, and filtering them through Vince is what kept Russo under control. Case in point, Vince knows what wont work if its put on TV. People don't realize that no matter what is put on TV right now will only work short term. Wrestling is down, on its way back up, and no matter what is on TV wont keep ratings in the 4's and 5's consistently. Wait it out, it will turn around.

As for Stephanie pulling off these power moves, dont make me laugh. Steph and HHH pushing out Shane for control, dont make me laugh harder. Nobody pushes Vincent Kennedy McMahon around.

KEEP VINCE, EVERYONE ELSE NEEDS TO BE KEPT IN CHECK!!!

[Lord Sidious]

Vince McMahon needs to stay, he just needs to be more open to other ideas but his own.

As for the PG rating, whoever made the comment about him thinking he can keep the kids as they grow up with the same PG rating, is assuming, and you know what happens when u assume. Im sure this PG rating isnt forever, it builds a new fan base, then as that fan base grows up, the rating goes back slowly but surely. OH MY GOD, almost like he did the first time around leading up the the Attitude Era!!!! Maybe people should not bash Vince now, and think about the bigger picture because guess what, HE IS!!!!

Guess what? I think a lot of us are thinking about The Bigger Picture. Hence why I raised the suggestion about Vince trying to keep the same kids now, as they age being a difficult one, IF he plans on keeping the PG rating. I am thinking 5 years down the road or so.

What my point is, is when he makes the switch again, that is going to alienate all the fans who will be kids at the time he does so. Because the parents won't want them watching.

So my question is, why does Vince always have to alienate some portion of his audience, and risk losing customers at any given time? Why does it not make more sense to simulatenously offer a PG product and a TV 14 product under the different brands. That way, you aren't sending the adults away like he is today, and he won't be sending the kids away IF he switches all of his shows to TV-14 again.

Plus, as the Kids of today age, then they can move on to the TV-14 show (Raw) as it becomes more appropriate for them.



Vince built WWE from the ground up

Actually, no he didn't. You might want to look up something called the WWWF, before making that claim.


and turned the business mainstream, so why do people online think they know more than him.

I got news for you. Vince has been wrong many times in his career. Many times. The WBF was a failure. The XFL was a colossal failure, which cost the company millions and millions of dollars. He almost went bankrupt at one point, because of WCW and at the time he himself had no idea where to take the company. He tried numerous gimmicks over the years that have been failures. He did not sufficiently do enough to prevent the use of steroids in his company.

The man is not a genius and he is not always right, like you may want to believe. He enjoys his success because the wrestling industry is not a very desirable industry to become involved in by a lot of people, so he can enjoy his reign. If you think about it, he has had very little competition over the years because basically no Executive in the world wants to be involved in the business. Ted Turner has been his only legitimate major competition over the years, and that's about it. So again, Vince basically has free reign to do whatever he wants to do.

Just because fans on the Internet pop suggestions, one shouldn't assume they are bad. I have seen a Hell of a lot of great suggestions offered from Internet fans of the product over the years, that definitely would make for a far better product than the last several years I've seen out of Vince.

The fact that Vince has lost over half of his audience since 2002 should be a major indicator of dissatisfaction with the product that Vince never addressed. If Vince was a genius, he would have found a way to keep a majority of those fans, but he didn't. McMahon's Million Dollar Giveaway was a failure as far as attracting new fans to the same product.


Let's see, how big are all of your corporations? Oh yeah, exactly!!!

And where did Vince get enough money to get his company? Oh, that's right. His father. Vince never ran a company before he ran WWE.

Vince made impressive accomplishments as far as taking wrestling mainstream. Then, came the Attitude Era. However, the Attitude Era and the success it brought was not his original idea. To his credit, for once in his life, the man listened to someone else. I guess when his company is facing bankruptcy, his stubborness finally takes a back step.

However, since that time, Vince has made no noteworthy accomplishments whatsoever. His product has never been more stale as it is today.

That is why people are judged based on their performance in the present. Not the past. Yes, that includes Vince.


Case in point, Vince knows what wont work if its put on TV.

Again, the XFL, the WBF, and WWE Films all say hello.

The Gobbledy Gooker, TL Hopper, and The Goon also say Hello. I think if we look in Vince's office close enough, we can still find his plans where he wanted to be the father of Stephanie's child, as well.


As for Stephanie pulling off these power moves, dont make me laugh. Steph and HHH pushing out Shane for control, dont make me laugh harder. Nobody pushes Vincent Kennedy McMahon around.


Spoken like a true Vince mark. I think I remember Bonnie Hammer of USA Network pushing Vince around on weekly conference calls not too long ago, because she was dissatisfied with Raw's ratings at the time, and wanted to know what he was going to do about it.

I also remember a certain World Wildlife Federation pushing Vince around to the point where he actually had to change the name of his company, which unquestionably took a toll on business. That was a major blow to the company and Vince's so-called ego.


KEEP VINCE, EVERYONE ELSE NEEDS TO BE KEPT IN CHECK!!!

When someone needs to keep Vince in check, that's when you know things are getting bad.

[Esteban Ochocinco]

Having a near 65 year old man in charge of a product whose key demo is the 18-35 male range, if not even younger, is a big outdated. Vince is simply out of touch with the times, and the technology, and the availability of information that his fans have access to now. This isn't the same business it was 25 years ago,a nd it's becomming painfully obvious when the business gets as stale as it has recently.

Now let me be perfectly clear in this, I'm not sure that either of the McMahon children are going to be the salvation of the WWE, but at this point, it can't hurt. If you have Raw and Smackdown become two unique companies, with each McMahon child given a brand to create in their own image without interference from anyone else, then that would be awesome

Shane seems to be the more sports centered of the McMahon's, where he has a passing interest in MMA, and he's easily the more internet savvy of the two. If you put that type of image on Raw, it could work.

Stephanie however seems to not truly get the business, from everythign that I've read on here. The Benefit of Stephanie, would be Triple H. Now, I despise the Game as an in ring performer, and have for the better part of a half decade at this point. I find him incredibly boring, and dull, if not downright repetitive in each and every one of his matches, however, I will not defy the fact that the man seems to have a brilliant mind for the business, and an appreciation for the history of the business, well the NWA and now the WWF.

You know what, I made a thread on this a year ago saying the same damn thing that the WWE should make the brands entirely exclusive of each other, maybe someones reading my post....

[General Disarray]

Having a near 65 year old man in charge of a product whose key demo is the 18-35 male range, if not even younger, is a big outdated. Vince is simply out of touch with the times, and the technology, and the availability of information that his fans have access to now. This isn't the same business it was 25 years ago,a nd it's becomming painfully obvious when the business gets as stale as it has recently.

I completely disagree with this. Just because he is 65, that means that he doesn't know what is going on in the world. I'm sure that he has plenty of people around him that keep him up to date on what the kids are into nowadays, and I believe that he acutually listens to what they have to say.

Vince obviously knows about technology and the internet talk, too. In fact, he pays great attention to interent leaks that may get out. He knows that fans how more access to information than ever and he is trying to stop it. There is no way to fix it, so he's just going to do the best he can to keep it from happening and keep putting out his product.

Personally, I think parts of the WWE are stale, but overall I still like the product. Smackdown and ECW are great shows with a lot of young and up and coming superstars. Even though Raw hasn't been up to par recently, I still try to watch it everytime I can because it still is an entertaining show.

The truth is, while Vince may be old, he still knows how to run a wrestling company and he's prove that he can be successful.

[Lord Sidious]

.

I completely disagree with this. Just because he is 65, that means that he doesn't know what is going on in the world. I'm sure that he has plenty of people around him that keep him up to date on what the kids are into nowadays, and I believe that he acutually listens to what they have to say.


You must know a different Vince McMahon than the rest of us know. Vince only listens to himself, and is surrounded by "Yes Men" that are too afraid to disagree with the man, for fear of their jobs. That's been reported for years.

Heyman himself had also testified to Vince only listening to himself, and not wanting the input of others.

Hell, then there is the infamous story that Scott Hall told about when he first came to the WWE. Hall proposed the Razor Ramon gimmick, and gave Hall praise because he thought it was a completely original character. Hall went on to say that Vince had absolutely no idea who Tony Montana was and never saw the film Scarface.

The same thing then happened later on with Waylon Mercy, as Vince never saw the film Cape Fear.

I have no problem with a 65 year old man running a company, as I don't discriminate based on age in that regard. And I have stated that he should continue on as Chairman. However, again, the problem is that this Chairman is far too hands-on in a certain facet of his company, being the Creative Department. How many other Chairmen of the Boards in other companies are involved to the degree they are in a certain facet of their company's day to day operations? He needs to let the people that are hired to do the jobs they were hired to do, actually do their jobs, and instead he needs to be more "bottom-lined" oriented.

There is no way Stephanie is going to progress her own performance if Vince is constantly breathing down her neck 24/7, because of his ego.

What things are going on in WWE today that you feel is a direct result of Vince personally being "in touch" with the kids of today? Because I'm personally not seeing anything. WWE Creative of today is so incredibly bland, that all he is doing is giving you match after match with pretty generic storylines.


Vince obviously knows about technology and the internet talk, too. In fact, he pays great attention to interent leaks that may get out. He knows that fans how more access to information than ever and he is trying to stop it. There is no way to fix it, so he's just going to do the best he can to keep it from happening and keep putting out his product.


I'm fairly certain that Shane is the one reporting the leaks to McMahon since this is Shane's territory in the company. Nothing wrong with that, as long as Vince is made aware of the problem somehow and tries to cut down on it.



The truth is, while Vince may be old, he still knows how to run a wrestling company and he's prove that he can be successful.

Well, it depends on whether you simply want to get by, or if you want to excel at your own performance.

Personally, if I were Vince, and I were doing the same thing he is doing today ... I would be ecstatic that I can put out such a stale product, and still rely on my base of fans who will buy whatever product I put out, no matter what. Things like that only feed Vince's ego even more since he is proven correct when he said on Raw that "I will tell you what I want to see, and you'll like it", with a big smile on his face.

I think there are wrestling fans that watch the product, who are not happy with the product at all ... but they watch because wrestling has been a large part of their childhood, and they don't want to abandon it altogether. And I think there are a large amount of people who do that ... where the other half of the unhappy audience simply took the next step and gradually left over the years.

Jim Ross knows there are a lot of unhappy fans out there, as he has acknowledged on his blog. He said that instead of complaining, they should just leave. And where as he is probably correct in his advice, that is a terrible attitude to have in running a business. Because it is so much harder to try and bring those fans back into the fold when you change company strategies and direction ... as evidenced by McMahon's Million $ Giveaway.



But again, I stand by Vince removing himself from Creative, as I do feel he is out of touch with his audience, and from a majority of accounts from those in the business, is not willing to listen to others who may be more in-tune with today's generation.

[MrMcCool]

Call me a Vince mark all you want, but you wanna look at someone in the present, Vince PRESENTLY is leader industry leader, and there is a reason for that!!!

So Vince didnt start the corporation, but he turned it into one!!! When Vince took WWE over it was a company, now its a billion dollar corporation, u should have gotten my point on that one dude.

When I say Vince doesn't put stuff on TV that dont work, I didnt mean non wrestling stuff, there is no doubt that Vince should stick to what hes good at, and thats not football for sure. Thing is, you mention that stuff because its most of ur argument, you should have known i meant wrestling related also. As for those weak gimmicks, point taken, there are some things that dont work, cant really argue with those.

Ill agree that you could try and market both PG and older at the same time, but what you dont know is sponsors might not look at that as a good thing. Then the show thats PG is still related to the more adult show by name, therefore PG sponsors are tied to an adult show, sponsors probably wont go for it.

There will ALWAYS be a segment thats not happy, its how it has to be. When the Attitude era happened, you think the older fans liked it? Hell no! Did it matter, not a chance in Hell!! Its a process. Everyone talks about the Attitude era being a peak, well that means wrestling peaked while alienating a segment, so it will peak once again while alienating another generation of older fans.

If Im a typical Vince mark, then you and many others are typical Vince haters. You dont understand that one idea, no matter how good it is, will turn everything around. Its like the economy, no matter what moron we elect, which we have one in there now for sure, nobody will walk in and turn everything around, facts are facts.

[JohnCenaSucks316]

To be perfectly honest as bad as wrestling is in at the moment. I wouldn't like to see Vince retire.

One reason STEPHANIE and TRIPLE H!

Now all this Shane on Raw, Steph on Smackdown won't happen. Shane won't even be in the equation, trust me. Steph and Trips are taking over completely. Triple H whether he loves Steph or not has always had the goal of being in this position and if Vince goes before Linda then Linda will balance things out but if Vince goes after Linda then Steph and Trips will have full power. Shane will be basically a silent partner. I can guarantee it.

Steph is a pushy b"tch and she always gets her own way as evidently proven by her getting rid of all Vince's loyal backstage people. Now Vince did do the same to his father but the difference is Vince actually had a degree in business and he knew what he was doing he knew how to market and utilize the WWF's potential. Steph don't and never will. She thinks she does but she doesn't.

Let's take ourselfs back to some of Steph's decisions like "Dan Rodimer is the next big thing". Look how far that got. Can't wait for her and H to be in charge cos it'll be Triple H a 55 time champion. As much as I like H as a wrestler I hate him for his backstage politics. Yeah he's good but if Rock and Austin where still about he would never have had 13 titles at this point. He was just the guy to fall back on.

Mark my words if Steph and Trips come in to power. Kiss the WWE goodbye!

TNA at the moment can't take on the WWE but eventually they will that is how it works and it'll be funny cos in a business revolutionized by men will be two women in charge Steph Vs Dixie. LOL!! Me being Scottish and having Thatcher rule my country trust me that is a verrrrrrrrrry bad thing LMAO!