Maybe the best heel isn't Jericho, Orton, or Edge...?

[48/7]

When the debate about who the best heel in the business today is going, three men are discussed: Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, and Edge. While all three of those men are excellent heels, some of the greatest we may have ever seen, none of them are the best. The best heel today is none other than John "Bradshaw" Layfield.

What?! You're crazy, 48.7. You've officially lost it.

No, no I haven't. Aside from my talking to myself, I am perfectly sane. Here me out.

I have a multitude of reasons for saying what I did. I'll start by saying first, J.B.L. is utterly boring and I hate him. I hate seeing him on my screen and I always want him to go away. The moment his music hits, a let out a long groan, as I'm sure many of you also do. Now, you're thinking, "48.7, you just hit the nail on the head. He's boring and everyone hates him. Edge, Orton, and Jericho are all enjoyable." Exactly my point!

During his promos, I feel the need to smack him. He drones on and on about how he is the a wrestling god and how he deserves this and that and how he will attain said something and how he has more money than us and so on and so forth. That's textbook heel stuff, right there. He says things that provoke us. He makes us angry, thus drawing massive heat.

People complain all the time about J.B.L.'s entrance. It's long, boring, and has annoying music. People suggest that he change it and walk faster. Why? Is not a heel's job to piss you off and make you hate him? Then why would Bradshaw want to change the very thing that makes us hate him the instant he shows up every night? I know for a fact that no one hates Orton's, Edge's, or Jericho's entrance. In fact, I look forward to and enjoy each of their's every night.

J.B.L. is boring in the ring. His moveset is slow and he wrestles a boring style. He is just a sloppy brawler! Well, yeah.. So? Are heels supposed to work a fast paced, exciting style? I mean, they could. Jericho does pretty well at it, but he's also very small. It's hard to get over when you're exciting in the ring. How is it a bad thing that J.B.L. does everything thing in the ring that we hate? He's doing his job perfectly by wrestling the way he does. I'm not sure if he's just a poor wrester, or if it's intentional. Either way, it's effective.

John Layfield is a large, sluggish, out of shape tub of goo. That's one of the things that people complain most about. He's fat, 48.7! So what? He's a bully that just pounds you into the ground. Why does he need to be 6'5 and 260 pounds of chisled muscle? He doesn't. He has the look of a big, goofy, rich guy that could beat the living hell out of you. It works in his favor, I think.

People also hate his finisher. While it has almost nothing to do with why he is a great heel, I'd like to set this straight. J.B.L. makes the clothesline look like it hurts. Other guys just kind of hit it. J.B.L. puts a ton of force behind it. While it's just an average move, so is Edge's spear and the Walls is just a Boston Crab. ;)

Finally, Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, and Edge all get chanted for and cheered by a small percentage of fans at every event. Yes, they are the rebellious smarks. Still, they aren't doing their job right if people cheer for them. You never hear J.B.L. chants.

J.B.L. is the greatest heel in the business.

[hArdymAriomArk]

I disagree.

Everyone hates JBL... Literally.

Edge, Orton, Jericho - Yeah we hate them too but it's really really different.

A heel is not supposed to piss people off to the point of turning the TV off or leaving the room (which i'm sure im not alone in doing this when JBL is on).

A heel is supposed to be a bad guy that you want to keep watching and keep listening too because... well you just have to! That's what Orton, Jericho and Edge do well, they piss us off but at the same time keep us watching.

JBL pissess us off because he's terrible to watch and listen to and i know alot of us turn the tv off or fast forward when he is on.

Ultimatley, yeah i guess he gets us to not like him, but it's through his true personality that makes us hate him, not his acting ability as it is with Jericho etc.

[48/7]

I disagree.

Everyone hates JBL... Literally.

Edge, Orton, Jericho - Yeah we hate them too but it's really really different.

A heel is not supposed to piss people off to the point of turning the TV off or leaving the room (which i'm sure im not alone in doing this when JBL is on).

A heel is supposed to be a bad guy that you want to keep watching and keep listening too because... well you just have to! That's what Orton, Jericho and Edge do well, they piss us off but at the same time keep us watching.

JBL pissess us off because he's terrible to watch and listen to and i know alot of us turn the tv off or fast forward when he is on.

Ultimatley, yeah i guess he gets us to not like him, but it's through his true personality that makes us hate him, not his acting ability as it is with Jericho etc.

That's pretty extreme. I'm not sure that there are actually many that turn the T.V. off when he's on screen. While you may be telling the truth, I think that was a stretch.

I'm captivated by his promos, actually. I enjoy listening to him. Whilst I hate what he says, he speaks well and I want to hear what he says. Don't tell me that you weren't listening intently last Monday when he started talking about facing The Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

[hArdymAriomArk]

That's pretty extreme. I'm not sure that there are actually many that turn the T.V. off when he's on screen. While you may be telling the truth, I think that was a stretch.

I'm captivated by his promos, actually. I enjoy listening to him. Whilst I hate what he says, he speaks well and I want to hear what he says. Don't tell me that you weren't listening intently last Monday when he started talking about facing The Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

Sorry, i didnt mean i turn it off but i do leave to get a drink or fast forward. I have heard though people on this forum say they turn it off. Maybe they are being a bit over the top though, i get what ya mean but there are alot of people that do fast forward or treat it like an add break, they guy is just boring in my opinion. A heel isnt supposed to be boring, he's meant to keep you stuck to the TV even though you don't like what he's saying or doning.


Anyways, i did watch that coz i heard he was going to be challenging the Dead Man so yeah, i watched this time. It's funny you mentioned that he speaks well. He stuffed his lines up at least twice, and obviously! I did listen intently but that was only after HBK came out because i want him to take the Undertaker on at WM25.

I wouldnt clasify myself as a JBL hater but i definatley think it is a stretch to say he is a better heel than Jericho, Orton and Edge.

[FTS]

I think the best heels are the ones that you want to see lose. I want to see Jericho and Orton lose because they are bad men. I want to see JBL break an arm and miss six months. That is the difference.

I will agree that JBL is an effective heel, but not one that should be at the top of the card. Do you remember when Macho turned on Hogan? You wanted to see Hogan beat Macho. You didn't hope Hogan slipped on a body slam and slammed the top of Macho's head into the ring.

Macho gets "respect and hate" heat at Wrestlemania V. JBL gets "hate" heat.

I will propose another name for biggest heel. Vickie Guerrero. At first she was getting Admale heat, but she is so good at her job. I don't know how she channels that bitchiness, but she is so good at it. The entire crowd boos her annoying voice, her excuse me's, her cheating for Edge. She could hand $100 to everyone in the building, and still get "You suck" chants for days.

[48/7]

You bring up a valid point. Heels are necessarily supposed to be boring. They're supposed to draw heat. J.B.L. draws immense heat. "Well, so what? He's still boring!" He's obviously not that boring if people care about him enough to give him a top reaction. Truly boring wrestlers, such as Paul Birchill (is he still employed?) and Mark Henry, receive very little reaction.

I didn't catch much of his promo. I was watching a pretty bad stream. I live on the west coast, so R.A.W. is on later here. I didn't want to wait. He stuffed up, eh? That's unusual for him. Most everyone would agree that he is skilled with a microphone.

Edit: For MDPUNK.

[hArdymAriomArk]

I think the best heels are the ones that you want to see lose. I want to see Jericho and Orton lose because they are bad men. I want to see JBL break an arm and miss six months. That is the difference.

I will agree that JBL is an effective heel, but not one that should be at the top of the card. Do you remember when Macho turned on Hogan? You wanted to see Hogan beat Macho. You didn't hope Hogan slipped on a body slam and slammed the top of Macho's head into the ring.

Macho gets "respect and hate" heat at Wrestlemania V. JBL gets "hate" heat.

I will propose another name for biggest heel. Vickie Guerrero. At first she was getting Admale heat, but she is so good at her job. I don't know how she channels that bitchiness, but she is so good at it. The entire crowd boos her annoying voice, her excuse me's, her cheating for Edge. She could hand $100 to everyone in the building, and still get "You suck" chants for days.

Yeah man, i agree about that.

That's what i was trying to get at. JBL is hated because he's boring and unexciting. Jericho, Orton and Edge are hated because they portray their promos and storylines extremely well, then they follow it up with sneaky wins (Edge) or a crazy fued with the owners (Orton) or taking on the legends (Jericho) and with good in ring wrestling.

JBL just doesnt cut it amongst these guys imo.

[48/7]

I think the best heels are the ones that you want to see lose. I want to see Jericho and Orton lose because they are bad men. I want to see JBL break an arm and miss six months. That is the difference.

That's a little.. scary.

I will agree that JBL is an effective heel, but not one that should be at the top of the card. Do you remember when Macho turned on Hogan? You wanted to see Hogan beat Macho. You didn't hope Hogan slipped on a body slam and slammed the top of Macho's head into the ring.

I wasn't alive when Macho turned on Hogan.

Macho gets "respect and hate" heat at Wrestlemania V. JBL gets "hate" heat.

What's wrong with hating heels? :p Nothing in the 'Heel Handbook' says, "Get them to hate you, but also get them to respect you." Your contempt for J.B.L. strengthens my argument. Vince doesn't give a damn that you don't respect J.B.L. He just wants for you to hate him. J.B.L. just wants you to hate him.

I will propose another name for biggest heel. Vickie Guerrero. At first she was getting Admale heat, but she is so good at her job. I don't know how she channels that bitchiness, but she is so good at it. The entire crowd boos her annoying voice, her excuse me's, her cheating for Edge. She could hand $100 to everyone in the building, and still get "You suck" chants for days.

That's a very good point. I once thought about posting a thread titled "Vickie Guerrero: Best Heel This Decade", but I didn't. It's totally slipped my mind tonight. You're right on everything, except the last statement. Handing out money would get anyone cheered.

[48/7]

Yeah man, i agree about that.

That's what i was trying to get at. JBL is hated because he's boring and unexciting. Jericho, Orton and Edge are hated because they portray their promos and storylines extremely well, then they follow it up with sneaky wins (Edge) or a crazy fued with the owners (Orton) or taking on the legends (Jericho) and with good in ring wrestling.

JBL just doesnt cut it amongst these guys imo.

How does J.B.L. not portray his promos and storylines well? He almost always is involved in some sort of real feud, which is more than you could say for a lot of top guys and he always delivers his promos well. Bradshaw just came out of a great feud with Michaels. Some hated it, but I don't see why. It was a feud where the heel bullies around the most loved face, playing off of real troubles outside the wrestling world. It was perfect.

[hArdymAriomArk]

You bring up a valid point. Heels are necessarily supposed to be boring. They're supposed to draw heat. J.B.L. draws immense heat. "Well, so what? He's still boring!" He's obviously not that boring if people care about him enough to give him a top reaction. Truly boring wrestlers, such as Paul Birchill (is he still employed?) and Mark Henry, receive very little reaction.

I didn't catch much of his promo. I was watching a pretty bad stream. I live on the west coast, so R.A.W. is on later here. I didn't want to wait. He stuffed up, eh? That's unusual for him. Most everyone would agree that he is skilled with a microphone.

Edit: For MDPUNK.

Yeah i see what you mean about Henry and co being even more boring than JBL, I'll give ya that.

He's getting heel heat and wrestling with other main eventers and whatever else so he is doing his job well to a certain degree. I just dont see him up there with the other guys like the 3 we have been mentioning.

I personally see a good heel as someone you watch and are drawn into the promo/storyline even though you're hating what they're saying or doing. Like for example when Chris Jericho was fueding with Michaels he could draw so much heat whilst still keeping you watching where as JBL draws the heat but people just want him off the screen, Jericho kept you wanting to watch even though you hated him, does that make sense, sorry if it doesnt lol.

Yeah he stuffed up a few times in that promo but i mean if he was as shit as alot of people here seem to think i'm sure he'd be off air by now. I think JBL is doing his job as a heel pretty well, I just dont rate him anywhere near as high as Y2J, Orton and Edge.

[FTS]

That's a little.. scary.

Not literally, but in the heat of the moment.



I wasn't alive when Macho turned on Hogan.

I feel old now. I was young, and that made it better. I was so mad at Macho, and I watched every week hoping he'd lose. That is what an over heel does. He makes your spite so strong you watch. When JBL comes on, I take a shit.



What's wrong with hating heels? :p Nothing in the 'Heel Handbook' says, "Get them to hate you, but also get them to respect you." Your contempt for J.B.L. strengthens my argument. Vince doesn't give a damn that you don't respect J.B.L. He just wants for you to hate him. J.B.L. just wants you to hate him.


Like I said, hating them to the point that you aren't watching the ads associated with them is what's wrong. I think there is a certain portion of the audience that changes the channel, or goes to the bathroom, or makes a sammich during JBL's time.


That's a very good point.

Of course it is, I'm brilliant.


I once thought about posting a thread titled "Vickie Guerrero: Best Heel This Decade",
I would have beenthe co-sponsor on this.

but I didn't.

there's still time.

It's totally slipped my mind tonight. You're right on everything, except the last statement. Handing out money would get anyone cheered.

Vince still got his fair share of hate. I did love the "It's just a gimmick" posts on here. Of fucking course it was, and a damn fine one at that.

[48/7]

Not literally, but in the heat of the moment. I know.




I feel old now. I was young, and that made it better. I was so mad at Macho, and I watched every week hoping he'd lose. That is what an over heel does. He makes your spite so strong you watch. When JBL comes on, I take a shit.

As long as you leave it on USA Network, no one cares. When J.B.L. and Michaels were feuding, did you honestly not watch? Is he so horrible that you didn't watch what has been one of the best feuds in recent memory? I'm sorry.



Like I said, hating them to the point that you aren't watching the ads associated with them is what's wrong. I think there is a certain portion of the audience that changes the channel, or goes to the bathroom, or makes a sammich during JBL's time.

A small portion.




Of course it is, I'm brilliant.

Seconded.


I would have beenthe co-sponsor on this.

Let's do it.


there's still time.

Tomorrow.



Vince still got his fair share of hate. I did love the "It's just a gimmick" posts on here. Of fucking course it was, and a damn fine one at that.

I didn't hate Vince for handing out a million dollars. I think people would be crazy to do so.

[hArdymAriomArk]

How does J.B.L. not portray his promos and storylines well? He almost always is involved in some sort of real feud, which is more than you could say for a lot of top guys and he always delivers his promos well. Bradshaw just came out of a great feud with Michaels. Some hated it, but I don't see why. It was a feud where the heel bullies around the most loved face, playing off of real troubles outside the wrestling world. It was perfect.

Maybe it was the whole Orton story or Edge/Jeff Hardy thing but i really wasnt into the Michaels/JBL story. Mainly because i just didnt feel it like the Orton and Hardy ones. I admit, it may have just been overshadowed.

But you couldnt honestly say that he portrayed a better heel than Orton portraying a psycho kicking in the faces of his boss and his family. Or Jericho beating the shit out of Michaels and punching his wife in the face. Or Edge doing everything wrong to win.

Again, JBL is an alright heel but seriously, no where near the 3 we've mentioned.

[salomon1080s]

I think the best heels are the ones that you want to see lose. I want to see Jericho and Orton lose because they are bad men. I want to see JBL break an arm and miss six months. That is the difference.

I will agree that JBL is an effective heel, but not one that should be at the top of the card. Do you remember when Macho turned on Hogan? You wanted to see Hogan beat Macho. You didn't hope Hogan slipped on a body slam and slammed the top of Macho's head into the ring.

Macho gets "respect and hate" heat at Wrestlemania V. JBL gets "hate" heat.

I will propose another name for biggest heel. Vickie Guerrero. At first she was getting Admale heat, but she is so good at her job. I don't know how she channels that bitchiness, but she is so good at it. The entire crowd boos her annoying voice, her excuse me's, her cheating for Edge. She could hand $100 to everyone in the building, and still get "You suck" chants for days.



I agree with you on this. VIckie Guerrero is deff the biggest heel in the business. when she is on the mic they need to turn up her levels because of how loud the booing is. no one is even close to gettin that much heat as she is

[hArdymAriomArk]

LOL you guys are trippers.

I actually started a Vicki biggest heel thread last week or the week before, no one seemed to post though :(

Honestly, JBL v Michaels.... Best fued in recent history?!? Now i think that is stretch.

Jericho v Michaels for one was shit loads better. Orton and McMahons is better. Edge and Undertaker. Just to name a few that were better in the past 12 months.

[48/7]

Maybe it was the whole Orton story or Edge/Jeff Hardy thing but i really wasnt into the Michaels/JBL story. Mainly because i just didnt feel it like the Orton and Hardy ones. I admit, it may have just been overshadowed.

What Edge/Jeff Hardy one? They hardly had a feud, if it could be called that. Edge's involvement was completely forgotten and overshadowed by Matt Hardy. Orton has had a good story. He's been booked very well.

But you couldnt honestly say that he portrayed a better heel than Orton portraying a psycho kicking in the faces of his boss and his family. Or Jericho beating the shit out of Michaels and punching his wife in the face. Or Edge doing everything wrong to win.

I'm not sure that there is anything more heelish than buying the most beloved wrestler in the company and forcing him to help you go over the babyface champion, lay down in the ring, and just making him look like a bitch every time he appeared on T.V. That is great stuff.

Again, JBL is an alright heel but seriously, no where near the 3 we've mentioned.

I didn't expect my opinion to be very popular. But, again, there is no standard that a heel has to meet. They are judged based on opinion, so there is no concrete way of saying who's right and who's wrong.

Having said that.. I'm right and you're wrong.

[48/7]

I agree with you on this. VIckie Guerrero is deff the biggest heel in the business. when she is on the mic they need to turn up her levels because of how loud the booing is. no one is even close to gettin that much heat as she is

The funny thing is, if she weren't so ugly and didn't have such a squeaky voice, she'd have no heat. ;)

LOL you guys are trippers.

I actually started a Vicki biggest heel thread last week or the week before, no one seemed to post though :(

Honestly, JBL v Michaels.... Best fued in recent history?!? Now i think that is stretch.

Jericho v Michaels for one was shit loads better. Orton and McMahons is better. Edge and Undertaker. Just to name a few that were better in the past 12 months.

I agree that Orton/McMahon is better, but I disagree with the others. Michaels/Jericho went on way too long and it got very old. I can't even remember what they were fighting about once it stopped being about Flair.

Edge and Taker started off their feud great. But when you headline five PPVs in a row against each other essentially doing the same thing week in and week out, I don't consider it great. This is another example of something that started well, but turned into shit.

[TheOneBigWill]

J.B.L. is far from being the best heel in the business. While he may gain more "real" hatred from the fans than guy's like Orton or Edge, that doesn't exactly mean he's doing his job. If that were the case, the greatest heel of all time would've been Muhammad Hassan. He did his job so well, the company had no alternative but to fire him, because they felt they couldn't even repackage him to the point of fans literally wanting to kill him.

So yes, while he's hated, that doesn't make him the greatest heel. It makes him the biggest dick.

J.B.L. isn't boring people to hate him, he's just boring people in general. No one gave a shit about the Shawn Michaels storyline, to the point of most everyone dreading the time when it'd come to an end. Even now, noone is giving J.B.L. credit for being able to defeat H.B.K. and go on to face the Undertaker.

When J.B.L. was a World Heavyweight Champion, he said himself he was one of Smackdown's longest reigning Champions.. yet people still never and will never consider him a great Champion, or a great Main Eventer. And if he were a great heel, people would have no choice but to be forced to admit those things.

He sucks in the ring, and his mic skills only work because they couldn't get any worse than his wrestling ability.

As a manager, I'd believe he could quite possibly be one of the very best heel manager's. As a wrestler, the guy barely touches Mike Knox.

[mattmcgee85]

I, for one, use to turn the tv off when JBL came on and it wasn't until HBK and him started there angle that I watched again.I didn't like him when he was on smackdown and I don't like him now.In my opinion JBL is wanna of the worst wrestlers to ever win the WWE title. In fact, I wasn't a big Eddie guy and I was pissed when he dropped the belt to him. Furthermore, I was never a big Cena guy and I was happy when Jiggly Boobs dropped the belt to Cena.

[48/7]

J.B.L. isn't boring people to hate him, he's just boring people in general. No one gave a shit about the Shawn Michaels storyline, to the point of most everyone dreading the time when it'd come to an end. Even now, noone is giving J.B.L. credit for being able to defeat H.B.K. and go on to face the Undertaker.

When J.B.L. was a World Heavyweight Champion, he said himself he was one of Smackdown's longest reigning Champions.. yet people still never and will never consider him a great Champion, or a great Main Eventer. And if he were a great heel, people would have no choice but to be forced to admit those things.

He sucks in the ring, and his mic skills only work because they couldn't get any worse than his wrestling ability.

As a manager, I'd believe he could quite possibly be one of the very best heel manager's. As a wrestler, the guy barely touches Mike Knox.

Interesting points. You've made me question my thought process, which is not something I often do. I'm a little bit nervous to be getting into something with you as I have much less on my side. Here goes anyway..

I didn't say that his boring people was intentional. I just said that it was effective. As for his latest feud, I quite enjoyed it. I haven't much discussed it with others, but I assumed that many enjoyed it as well. That doesn't seem to be the case.

His reign was during one of the lowest points in SmackDown history. The show had very little talent. Who did he have to work with? Hardly anyone. They had lost Lesnar, The Rock, and who the hell knows what Taker was doing. He didn't really have much help.

He is terrible in the ring. I didn't say for a moment that he wasn't. Then again, Hogan was terrible in the ring too. As for his mic skills, they're quite good. He speaks fluently and doesn't appear uncomfortable, unlike many others. (Jeff Hardy.)

He would be a great manager, which I hope he will be when he hangs them up.

[Hacksaw Highway]

I have to agree. Edge, Jericho or Orton all captivate me and make me want to wtahc the show, but more often than not I go to the bathroom/get a drink when JBLs on. He just bores me, I'd be happier if he either left or went back to commentary.

[JJYanks121]

JBL is one of the few guys on any show right now with a solid character base. You hate him because he is a jerk who has success, financially and to an extent in the WWE. Hell, he's been around since the mid 90's, that's gotta count for something. However, as an APA member, you didn't hate him, but you hate him when you find out he's a stock market guru and an ass to boot.

Recently, you watch JBL take advantage of HBK.....is there any better way to get heat? And honestly, I'm not sure ANY other heel could have pulled off that storyline, and I for one, think it's a shame that it was a 1 and done in terms of PPV matches.

About his weight....did anyone notice he lost like 70 pounds. He went on a diet and became a sponsor to a company (though I forget which one) and now in his suit looks a lot slimmer. Plus, everyone loves Mick Foley, including me, but no one has ever looked worse than Mick walking with his beautiful wife in Beyond the Mat.

As much as I want to buy into the "smark" view, I'm not sure I can. For a while, I really tried to buy Orton as the best heel on either roster, but it's impossible to. If you think JBL is boring cutting a promo, watch an Orton promo again. Yes, he's improved lots over the past year, but he still can't touch JBL in that category. I'll be honest, the ONLY reason you hate Orton is because he punts guys in the head that you like. Without that, he's just kind of a a cocky, jerky guy who is a good wrestler. He needed that gimmick for you to hate him. In fact, up until a few weeks ago, you heard more RKO chants than Cena chants. That should tel you something about his heel ability.

Jericho I like but he's getting a little repetitive in this character with his promos. It's like he knows he's better as an arrogant ass character who can do 1 liners but he's battling it to be this more "mature" heel and it may have run it's course.

Edge is a good heel, but his wife is a better one. Take Edge away from vicki and you have a nutjob who you hate because he will still find opportunities wherever they lay. He'll never "earn" anything and you'll hate him for stealing wins. That's classic heel and he does it well. He's the guy I'd put up against JBL.

I'm no JBL lover, but I can see the ability there. He was MADE to be a heel and he is kind of our modern day Million Dollar Man, except his money is real so you can hate him more for it. His job is to go out there and use his financial gain and power to get you to hate him and he does just that. He speaks fluently and uses intelligent language which makes him seem arrogant and too smart for his own good, and he has a very direct way of delivering his promos. No catchphrases, no long winded stories, just to the point promos that tell you why he's a jerk.

Closing, I think if John Layfield was a few years younger, he might just be the biggest heel. Problem is, he is older and he is better utilized always chasing titles but getting beat by the faces you love, which he has done quite often. You love to see him lose to your Cenas, HBKs, etc, and he will do that until he can wrestle no more and hopefully go back to the announce table.

[TheOneBigWill]

Interesting points. You've made me question my thought process, which is not something I often do. I'm a little bit nervous to be getting into something with you as I have much less on my side. Here goes anyway..

Nothing to fear. Everyone is entitled to opinions. You have a nice thread here, with some points of interest. I just don't view it the same.

I didn't say that his boring people was intentional. I just said that it was effective.

And yet when the crowd chants "Boring" during Wrestling matches, and promos, that's effective to you as well? Lance Storm must've been a very underrated Legend through your eyes during 2003.

The fact is, being boring isn't effective. It's hurtful. If you can't hold the crowd in the palm of your hand.. then you aren't anything. It's one thing to be hated, it's another to be hated and uncared for, or ignored.

J.B.L. was ignored and uncared for. People didn't hate his character, or the things he said. They just seem to hate him in general. As in to the point of just wishing he'd retire, go away, or simply be fired.

As for his latest feud, I quite enjoyed it. I haven't much discussed it with others, but I assumed that many enjoyed it as well. That doesn't seem to be the case.

The problem with his feud with Shawn Michaels was that it never had an alternative ending solution. It was either "I own everything that you stand for in this business, or you magically get paid and get a clean slate."

If the storyline wouldn't of fallen into the realm of never for a moment believing Shawn Michaels' entire "legacy" could be taken from him, and then owned by J.B.L., the whole thing might of drew more interest. But it didn't, because people don't hold onto storylines they know the outcome of 2 months in advance.

His reign was during one of the lowest points in SmackDown history.

Likely the whole point he was ever tried out as a Champion to begin with. They felt they had nothing left to lose. (ie. This makes him bad, not good.)

The show had very little talent. Who did he have to work with? Hardly anyone.

Kurt Angle was there. The Big Show was there. Booker T., Eddie Guerrero, and even the Undertaker were all there.

If feuding with the likes of Kurt Angle and the Undertaker, to the point of WINNING against them, doesn't make you seem like a credible Champion in the eyes of the fans.. NOTHING will.

He is terrible in the ring. I didn't say for a moment that he wasn't. Then again, Hogan was terrible in the ring too.

The huge difference here is, back during Hogan's prime and that time period. Hogan's horrible in-ring skills were about average for what everyone was doing. On the S.N.M.E. Best of DVD, I'm seeing a whole new side to Hogan that I never seen before. He's leaving the ground, he's doing jumping clotheslines. Hes doing moves that I never even thought he could know how to do. So Hogan DOES have skills. He just aged and lost them.

J.B.L. can't use this excuse though, because he was the A-typical brawler who somehow fell into a single's role due to McMahon liking the fact that J.B.L. was a self-made millionaire.

In fact, I'm almost sure the only reason J.B.L. is even still being pushed with this gimmick, is because in some fashion, maybe Vince believes it could be a form of himself.

As for his mic skills, they're quite good. He speaks fluently and doesn't appear uncomfortable, unlike many others. (Jeff Hardy.)

He would be a great manager, which I hope he will be when he hangs them up.

J.B.L. is natural on the mic. Which would make him incredible as a manager. But that doesn't help him as a Wrestler.

[TM]

JBL is a decent heel, but he is not the best.

He is boring, gets booes and all that, yes, but is it because he is a heel, or because people are sick of him? Its like if Cena was booed, people didn't think he was a bad guy on screen, they were sick of him.

Edge makes people hate him, with help from his wife. They actually hate the guy, they want his blood. Chris Jericho has people try to fight him outside of shows, that is true hatred.

Orton has people hate him, but he is more of a cool although psychotic heel. He is better than JBL, but not as good as the Edge.

[shafe_41]

JBL does create heat, which makes him good at what he does. But his in-ring performance is not anywhere near as good as it was when he was destroying everybody on Smackdown when he was champ for 9 months. He's not the same JBL anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if this might even be his last Wrestlemania. He doesn't have it like he used to. I do believe he's a good heel, but he's nowhere near the best. He barely makes the top 10 as far as heels in the company in my book. But I certainly don't buy a ppv because of JBL on the card. I don't think anybody does. He's borrrrrrrrrring. His mic skills are some of the best, but his athletic ability is going down faster than Jennifer Aniston goes down on people that can help her career.

[AlexEqualsMoney]

I just gotta jump in add my voice to those who turn the channel when JBL is on. I'm a diehard wrestling fan and i love HBK, i was totally into the recent "hired help" storyline but i found myself literally changing the channel whenever JBL started to talk and checking back after a minute to see if Michaels was doing something yet.

It is my humble opinion also that heels are supposed to be people you love to hate and that keep you watching. i just flat out don't like JBL and i reach for the remote the second i hear his music start. I normally watch raw with about 3 or 4 other people who all share the same sentiment.

if we were to get nit-picky about it, then Adamle would be a great heel by this definition and that's just not right. everyone hated him but not in the way you're supposed to hate a heel.

[I_Like_All_Wrestling]

JBL is EXTREMELY boring to me. When he comes on TV I change the channel. I don't hate him where I want to see him get his ass kicked, I just hate watching him. He has a boring wrestling style, and he's boring on the mic. I agree that he follows heel promos to a T, he just has no charisma and therefore even if you dislike what he's doing, it's hard to actually maintain interest.

I personally feel the same way about Vickie.

[Lord Sidious]

I disagree.

Everyone hates JBL... Literally.

Edge, Orton, Jericho - Yeah we hate them too but it's really really different.

A heel is not supposed to piss people off to the point of turning the TV off or leaving the room (which i'm sure im not alone in doing this when JBL is on).


I'll be honest. I change the channel whenever Jericho comes on the screen. Why? Simple. I find him incredibly boring as all get-out.

He says the same things every single damn time he's on anyway.

"I'm the best wrestler in the world today."

"I won the 2008 Wrestler of the Year Award."

"You fans are nothing but liars and hypocrites."


Why do I want to tune in to see him say the same damn things every single week? Plus, in a bland, boring, monotone voice ... that simply causes me to doze off. Same words every week. Same delivery every week.

Jericho is the heel Triple H of old that everyone despised. Comes out. Tells us that he is "The Game" every single week. Tells us that he is "That damn good!" every week. Wears a suit every week. Jericho fans came down on Triple H for doing it then. But they are fine when Jericho does the same thing today.

Hmmm. Go figure. Jericho is correct about one thing. Fans can be a bunch of hypocrites.

I simply chalk it up to blind, Jericho marks. Jericho could play any character in the world ... no matter how boring he is ... like this character ... and they would still claim he was the greatest character of all time.

[ad21k]

JBL definantly is one of the best heels in the WWE, not as great as Jericho or Edge in my opinion. But he definantly plays his role well, he can make anyone hate him with a few words. At the same time I actualy find him quite entertaining, despite not liking his character. Jericho and Edge are better though because they play to the crowd more, and create a negative atomosphere with their promos. In addition they make the face in the feud look a lot better than what JBL makes them look.

[The Madrid Slam]

JBL is well-spoken and that's probably the only good thing I will say about him. That's the only reason in my opinion he is still on a WWE roster. Granted he's not the worst wrestler to don the tights, but he's just not entertaining to watch.

He does his job well, and in my opinion is a decent heel if used properly. I think that storyline with Shawn Michaels was a step in the right direction, but the storyline ended very abruptly with an ending that made no sense. However it did give JBL more heat than he had before.

However I will not say that Edge, Orton or Jericho is any less of a heel than he is. Jericho is one the best in recent years if not THE best to work the mic. Orton and Edge are amazing as well. Jericho, Orton and Edge literally make you hate them with all the evil things that they do. Screwing people over, insulting others, cheating and then justifying it in their own way. They are enjoyable to watch because we LOVE to HATE them.

JBL...we just hate him.

[ChrisIrvine]

Well to put it short and sweet, OP: You're wrong


JBL isn't booed because he's a heel. He's booed because he sucks. Not 'bad guy sucks.' He is more like 'X-Pac suck.' He's fat. He is bad on the mic. He can't wrestle. He has no moves. The man can barely move. The only funny thing he's done since APA split up was chase the Mexicans back across the border when he was feuding with Eddie.

People don't hate him because he's a heel. They hate him because he sucks. BIG difference.

[03mf2]

nope i have to disagree, it is edge. edge has been given the most difficult situation of his life having a relationship with his dead best freinds wife vicki guerrero. he has been brilliant to watch for 2 years since his feud with the undertaker. i don't like edge but i have to say hes the best ever heel the wwe will ever see.

[Slyfox696]

I love how people are trying to distinguish between "worked" heat and "shoot" heat. As if there is actually a difference for a heel in wrestling. The fact that so many people are trying to excuse their intense hatred for JBL, without giving JBL the credit he deserves, shows just how many wrestling fans are actually worked.

JBL is a very good heel. Anyone who can literally get Shawn Michaels booed, just by association with him, is a great heel.

[Frank White]

However, as an APA member, you didn't hate him, but you hate him when you find out he's a stock market guru and an ass to boot.



About his weight....did anyone notice he lost like 70 pounds.




I'm no JBL lover, but I can see the ability there. He was MADE to be a heel and he is kind of our modern day Million Dollar Man, except his money is real so you can hate him more for it. .

^ this guys a smart man these were going to be some of my points exactly

in the late 80's early 90's Ted was arguably the top heel now he had in ring ability but didnt get to showcase alot cause of his role ( i mean he jobbed to virgil for christ sake ). but JBL is a bit of the same even if he did have in ring ability besides that of a powerhouse you wouldnt see it.

by the way he lost that weight because of his back injury that was suppose to retire him adn it was close too 100 pounds

but JJs right when he was smoking cigars and sucking down beers playing poker yalll was entertained, when they were takers followers i didnt hear to much complaining and when he was Justin Hawk Bradshaw i di....... never mind that gimmick was horrible. point is .......

The WWE's biggest Heel is you the viewer because you decide who to hate you give heat to whoever you choose whom u want to like and dislike in most cases


JBL has done his job as being a top heel sooo well thats there is no turning back hes a heel till he retires unless bizzaro world comes around i mean Orton Jericho Edge these guys could turn face in a heart beat but JBL nah hes a heel 4 Life and theres only a handful of guys who have played and kept a heel role going this consistant and this long. you dont think vince knows you want throw the controller at the TV or boo in the comfort of your own home when you here JBLs bells ring. Are u not going to tune in to see JBL catch sweet chin music monday soo he dont go on to face taker at 25???

Ill tell you why JBL is one of the top heels becuase u could put him in a feud with any top guy good or bad and jbl will get the heat do you think his recent feud with cena was a accident ???? no cena started getting heat so they put him with jbl to get his pop back up because we all know pops are contagious

im out pz

[Profit]

I love how people are trying to distinguish between "worked" heat and "shoot" heat. As if there is actually a difference for a heel in wrestling. The fact that so many people are trying to excuse their intense hatred for JBL, without giving JBL the credit he deserves, shows just how many wrestling fans are actually worked.

JBL is a very good heel. Anyone who can literally get Shawn Michaels booed, just by association with him, is a great heel.

Exactly, and HBK did receive a ton of heat during that storyline with JBL, which shows how good JBL is at being a heel. He cuts good promo's, and always has the fans in an uproar over what he's doing, and having the fans actually hate him is what he wants in the first place.

His gimmick is not unlike his actual person life, he just plays up his arrogance and rich-snob attitude more, but there are parts of the "real" him in his gimmick. I can't stand him, and thats a credit to the job he does as a heel. Again, his promo's are really some of the best in the WWE, and he's come a long way since his APA days.

Is he the top heel though? No. I'd give that credit to either Edge or Orton, with a slight edge to Orton(no pun intended). The guy is fantastic on the mic, I know some people find him boring but I think he is superb, and his badass character who is hell bent on causing destruction and helping only himself is great. The fact that he stated once that the reason he doesn't do that pose that he used to do during his entrance when he's on the turnbuckle because some fans began mimicking it, and he didn't want to have anybody liking anything he did, shows dedication to being that heel.

The problem with Orton right now, is that him attacking the McMahons is actually getting him over with the crowd. The constant "RKO" chants, and semi-cheers he receives might be an argument to the contrary that he's not the best heel, and that Edge or Y2J would be, but now that HHH is involved with this I think he is going to receive even more heat.

Edge is also great as a heel, I like the heels more and never really was a fan of Edge until he made his heel turn, now I enjoy watching the guy and hearing his promo's. One could possibly argue that the biggest heel in the WWE might even be Vickie Guerrero, who can barely speak two words without the crowd drowning her out with boo'ing, she practically has to yell what she wants to say in order for anyone to hear it.

[LEGEND KILLER]

somebody give this guy a trophy! 487 643 whatever your name is you got it man! whats a heel gentleman? JBL ...i will not ever say he is as good as orton, jericho edge etc...but he has a place in WWE i love his long drawn out entrance...and hearing that he is our saviour and he is a wrestling god...LMFAO! he isnt any of those but hearing it makes me laugh and i say vince...great job bc JBL is a great heel and the more you people write on this post and say you hate him the more amo to the point of this thread bc JBL is getting payed a lot of money to make you hate him and you guys do so very much!

Cheers JBL!

[ChrisIrvine]

A good heel makes me watch to see him get his ass kicked. A bad heel makes me change the channel. When JBL's face lights up that screen, ESPN becomes the best invention in the world.





Would any of you JBL supporters care to enlighten us as to what year it was, exactly, the last time he WON a match?

[Frank White]

A good heel makes me watch to see him get his ass kicked. A bad heel makes me change the channel. When JBL's face lights up that screen, ESPN becomes the best invention in the world.





Would any of you JBL supporters care to enlighten us as to what year it was, exactly, the last time he WON a match?

mid 08 he beat cena on PPV and im sure hes had a squash match this year not to mention his " pin fall " victory over shawn in that fatal 4 way so yeah hes gotten his hand raised this year

[Frank White]

nope can my last statement better yet JBL is undefeated on Raw this year because well he hasnt wrestled a match i dont think ????? i think in 2 months hes lost to cena and shawn and thats it just those 2 matchs this guys such a top heel he dont have to wrestle lol

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

However, as an APA member, you didn't hate him, but you hate him when you find out he's a stock market guru and an ass to boot.

I'm sure people didn't cheer him in the Acolyte days. Once they became beer drinking, poker playing, ass kickers for hire then people enjoyed their segments, doubtful they enjoyed the matches.

APA Bradshaw and Farooq were basically Stone Cold, if Stone Cold had been two guys stuck as a mid card tag team.

APA Bradshaw = Stunning Steve Austin merged with Stone Cold. Long Hair, beer drinking, stuck in the mid-card with no future.

I personally really like JBLs mic work. I thought he was a pretty good commentator (except when he shouted at Cole repeatedly. Yes Cole is uber shit, but shouting at him for 3 minutes over nothing makes you look equally shit).

I can enjoy a JBL promo. I can't stand a JBL match. I'd rather watch 2 guys who've never met each other put on a varied match, than watch a JBL match with a build up, where he's just going to forearm smash his way through 20 minutes of TV time.

I thought this was the forum where the mark of a good wrestler, heel or face, was determined by their ability to draw? Are you guys seriously suggesting that JBL draws? Or even Vickie G draws? Hell no. Edge draws, Vickie doesn't. Edge is the steak you wanted to eat, Vickie is the grissle that you leave. JBL is just grissle, and you pray that Vince gives you some steak when he appears on TV, i.e HBK.

HBK will face Taker, JBL will be lucky to be on the WM card, unless it's to bury a mid-carder at the Showcase of the Immortals, like he has the past 2 or 3 years he's wrestled.

[the_king_boi]

I think JBL is amazing, and doing his job perfectly. Which is obviously to get under people's skin and make them boo him. How can anyone say he's not good on the mic....hes awesome on it...everyone likes to say he's got a horrible physique...but the guy is huge! and he's strong...well, stronger then everyone likes to think. The only thing that really bothers me about him is how much he loses...he really need's to win some matches so that when a face does beat him it really looks like they overcoming a hard obstacle.

[demon316]

JBL aka Just a Boring Loser is by far NOT the best heel!

I'll give credit where it's due and JBL has been a constant heel who has excellent mic skills. He was a heel before becoming an announcer, during and after. But I think that's his major problem..always a heel. When you are a well liked face for a while and then turn heel it gives the audience a sense of betrayal and I think that is key to be a solid heel. JBL has ever actually liked JBL? He was only watchable when he in APA..sorry but it's true.

To me Edge is #1. He hasn't been a face for a long time, but unlike JBL he doesn't need to be. He always does whatever he has to do to be champ not matter how low and nasty he has to get...look at Vickie...Damn! Orton and Jericho are indeed awesome but still slightly fall behind Edge as top heel. I guess the bottom line is to be the best heel you have to be an asshole and somewhat likeable at the same time.

[y2empleh]

There is a difference between getting heat and creating heat. Just because someone gets head for sucking at their job does not mean they are good at that job. A good heel needs to be able to generate good feuds with people by drawing heat at the right times. Unfortunately I think WWE agrees with you however in that someone who gets heat for sucking at their job is a good heel. Look at Mike Adamle. What stops JBL in my opinion is his sub-par ring skills. Edge, Orton, and Jericho are able to have good matches. Name for me the last good JBL match? In my opinion WWE should continue doing to other wrestlers what they did to HBK. Have JBL buy their services for the sole purpose of winning the title so they can then give it to him. You go with this through royal rumble with person after person failing at this attempt. Then around time for the royal rumble you either have someone win the title and be reluctant to give it to JBL or you have the champion finally able to get a match with JBL himself.

[JohnnyTheAlphaMale]

The basis of the argument is that JBL is the best heel because he is "boring, slow, has annoying music, boring ring style" etc which means that the fans hate him for "real". Also the fact that he doent get JBL chants (unless against Edge or Cena a few years ago) unlike the aformentioned trio. However, by that rational The Great Kahli would have bin the best heel in the business at one point for these very reasons. So, I would suggest that he is a good heel and usually great talker, however, he is not in the same class as Randy, Jericho, and certainly not Edge.

[JoeBird76]

I would also have to disagree. Heels have to be entertaining in order for the company to even get good business. If people see JBL and leave the room, then he is doing a crappy job of being a heel and he needs to work a little harder on being the heel of the storyline. In my opinion, the best heel in the business right now is...Jericho. He gets the peoples attention, and he makes them hate him. Jericho ftw. -JoeBird

[Showtime 24/7]

Your argument is an excellent one and I do agree with you somewhat 487. Since JBL's transformation from middlecard face to main event heel, he has been one of the best heels during that time. I could compare him strongly to another former great heel, the Iron Sheik.

Like Sheik, JBL too dropped the title to a first time champion that began a great era, but the similarities don't stop there. Both were big slow power wrestlers and both are very good at getting under the skin of the fans. For Sheik it was easy, he was different, he wasn't from around here. JBL is different too, he's rich.

Nobody likes people who think their better than you because they're rich. Look at Million Dollar Man Ted DiBiase, another great heel. Ted played the wealthy guy who could buy whatever he wants whenever he wants well, and sold the gimmick perfectly. JBL isn't quite that rich, but he acts like he's better than you, like he owns you.

JBL has played his gimmick perfectly for going on 5 years now and has maintained solid heat throughout it. His gimmick is a perfect heat getter. On the mic JBL is demanding and I quite enjoy him, he's like nails on a chalk board, like 487 said you want to take a swing at him. In the ring, he can be boring and sluggish at times, but he's not that type of wrestler. Slow, sluggish, brawling, nothing about JBL's look or in-ring style makes you want to cheer for him and he actually doesn't do a bad job in the ring, just don't expect too many 20+ minute matches from him. People do really bust his balls a lot about his mic and his wrestling and point to his recent angle with Michaels.

Firstly, It's a stupid angle, Michaels suddenly becoming poor after maineventing/co-maineventing so many PPV's in the last 2 years all the shit money DX comeback made, and having to work for somebody within the same company he works for in JBL, (and on another minor rant about company employee relations, you'd think after punting the boss in the head, injuring him in the process, and then jumping the bosses unsuspecting kids back stage would lead to a little more than a slap on the wrist for Orton, but enough about all the holes in the wrestling wall) second, JBL holds his own and always gets the job done.

What's that job, putting over the opponent and making sure they get cheered. WWE built him up by him winning all the time as champ, now they're whoring him out and having him put over every main eventer. Look at his track record of his opponents at PPV's (ono-on-one matches only) Eddie 2 PPV's, Undertaker 2, Booker T 1, Big Show 1, Cena 6, Batista 3, Mysterio 2, Matt Hardy 1, Boogeyman 1, Jericho 1, Punk 1, Michaels 1. All big faces, most of him JBL did the J.O.B to and put over. Hell, made them all better faces (another thing great heels are supposed to do) hell, Cena was still on the receiving end of mixed cheers and boo's till his feud with JBL this year made it impossible to hate him and helped us re begun loving Cena again.

Now, here's the knock and it's been brought up before and it's not a bad one. JBL is a great heel like Jericho, Edge, and Orton are, but is he the best because he is great at what he does, naturally get's under the skin and does the best job being a heel, or is it because he's boring and simply just has the perfect body and the perfect gimmick to be the best. The fact is, the man is boring and that gets him a lot of heat, he's slow in the ring and makes some people scream for him to go back to the announce desk and that gets him a lot of heat, he's ugly, yup, another heat getter, his gimmick is he's a millionaire, what's that, oh yes, more heat. Don't get me wrong, JBL plays his role well and does an excellent job at it. He's the jobber to the stars, he's not here to put over the young kids yet, but keep the main eventers up there without sacrificing the young talent. But JBl is good because God made him to be a good heel, and he's boring as fuck a lot of the times, and that doesn't make him the best too me. The best to me are Edge and Jericho and Orton who can be big faces at any time but instead fight with the fans and really make them hate them.

[wolfpack22]

JBl is an incredibale heel, but he also has his flaws. Aside from Chris Jericho, no other heel is as good on the mike as JBL. His character is also entertaining I mean he's a heel that says he's better than you and he knows it. The only problems with JBL are that his ring work could be better and he needs to start working out again. Love handles do not reek of awesomeness I mean if he could get in shape like he was when he was aith ROn Simmons then he could be the heel he was meant to be.

[sTyLnK]

While not a wrestler, Vickie is the best heel.

[enigmaticdude]

JBL isn't the best heel at all. He is very well hated by many WWE fans because he isn't the best heel but because seeing him come out in his limo every time he comes to the ring with a stupid retarded smile of a "special" person makes everyone want to either turn off their TV sets or just attempt to boo him out of the ring or set that he is in. Sometimes during his promos I have wanted to punch my TV screen because it is such a drag to see him on RAW speaking about how he is a "Wrestling God" In my opinion he is the absolute worst wrestler in the WWE and should have been released when the WWE was in Germany and he decided to the Nazi salute. NBC dropped his show, why couldn't the WWE do the same? But since he is a "big time" Wall Street employee here in NYC, they aren't about to fire someone with that much economical advantage. JBL just makes me want to turn away from the WWE all together. Even in the APA he was still a smug Son of a B*tch. His wrestling sucks big time well below sub-par in my opinion. His slow lethargic wrestling style of a drunken pissed off redneck has worn off with me as soon as I have seen him wrestle for the first time.
Chris Jericho, Edge and Randy Orton are FAR BETTER than JBL will ever be. I don't see a face turn ever for JBL. As with Jericho, RKO and Edge, they can pull a face turn within a matter of seconds. It is so easy for them because even though they are "hated" they are well respected because they have proven themselves as great wrestlers in the ring and not as some smug jackass in the ring just there to earn money and be a slow, hated, tub of rancid lard loser like JBL.
Vickie Guerrero is another story. She doesn't really belong in the WWE anymore. I feel sorry for her getting booed so much because her Husband Eddie Guerrero, same hated but respected heel and face with his lying, cheating and stealing(God, I miss him so much RIP EDDIE!!!) unfortunately passed away. So booing her is like booing Eddie. And those boos aren't out of respect, I sense that they are of complete hate. And the fact that they have her in such a storyline with Edge in the first place is just major disrespect to the Guerrero name. That storyline should be quickly ended. I don't like it at all.
Apart from that, JBL does his job well at being hated but not at being respected at all or being a great wrestler. He is just an insult to all of the other talent in the WWE.

[Alan Quartermaine]

JBL is an excellent heel, I've been saying it for ages, the guy makes people hate him. He's excellent because he can lose everyweek, get his heat back in a promo and make people want to see him lose the next week. He could (and probably does) lose 52 weeks a year and yet people still care enough to hate him.

The only thing that stops JBL from being the top heel is booking, as impressive as all that which I stated above is you cant really be the top heel if you cant win a match. Back when he was on Smackdown as the champ, in his very successful title run he was the top heel, higher than Kurt Angle even, he was the HHH of Smackdown.

JBL obviously has phenominal mic skills, even his haters admit that but his ring skills are dangerously underrated, there basic but they are effective, I couldnt care less if he cant do a flip, people rag on Hogan for not being agile. They are HUGE dudes, they dont need agility. Anyway JBL can work, he works the heelish match that makes you want to see the face come back from his assault, he frustrates you when he just keeps beating up one of your favourites and it's genuinely fun watching someone come back against him.

Basically what I am saying is if JBL was booked to win more and look more of a threat then he'd be the top heel. As it stands he is still a top player based purely on his ability to be hated.

[Louie Lips]

I think Edge is by far the biggest heel in the WWE. As "bad" of a person Orton is, he's great to watch, and a lot of people actually like him. For example, if you watch matches of his, you can hear some "RKO" chants start. Jericho is another person who although is fun to hate, he's been kind of boring lately. Plus, he has had so many face/heel turns in the past few years that I just don't care. Edge is just hated so much by so many fans for all of the bullshit he pulls off. Most of his WWE/WHC titles have been won by some stupid stipulation such as MITB or a rematch clause or banging Vicky Guerrero (sorry just threw up in my mouth a little bit). Plus, a few years ago Edge was such a big face, when he teamed with the likes of Hogan, and Mysterio, and even after that was liked a lot by the fans. He has been such a good heel for several years already, and has made it very hard not to hate him.