View Full Version : Int Region, S.A. Subregion, First Round: (4) Bruno Sammartino vs. (29) Frank Gotch
03-14-2013, 09:48 AM
This is a first round match in the International Region, San Antonio Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under International Rules, meaning the match is held under the standard rules of the country the match is held in. It will be held at the Alamodome in San Antonio, Texas.
#4. Bruno Sammartino
#29. Frank Gotch
Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.
Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
03-14-2013, 12:50 PM
Frank Gotch wrestled far before any of us were alive really and i'm not even sur you could call what he would have been doing at the time as professional wrestling. You really can't watch videos of his because he predates that. Sure his contributions molded the clay for what we know as pro wrestling today and he should be acknowledged for that.
Regardless though, Frank goes up against who I think has the most momentum going into this tournament of anyone else with Bruno Sammartino. His long awaited hall of fame induction is the last trophy of his really incredible wrestling career. He was the champion basically forever and that's all you need to know for now. I'll save my effort for arguing Bruno down the line.
Bruno wins this one, lets say by DQ since Frank wouldn't be familiar with the rules 50 years after his time.
03-14-2013, 01:47 PM
Man, I wish this was a TLC match...
Brewski is right, Sammartino will cruise through this round (and likely several more) on the strength of this year's Hall of Fame induction.
But to apply some facts to this case, we can say that Sammartino weighed approximately fifty pounds more than Gotch, and in a match which will mostly be defined by grappling, Bruno's additional weight will surely give him enough leverage to pick up the victory.
03-14-2013, 03:49 PM
Bruno gets this for me. He was big he was strong and he just didn't lose in his prime. I know about Gotch and how he was so influential, but Bruno was equally influential maybe even more for what we see today with the big strong guys coming in and wrecking shit. And with his recent Hall of Fame induction lots of people have done their research on him lately to find out that he was the man back in his day.
Poop Master Flex
03-14-2013, 04:26 PM
This is such an odd match for the simple fact they didn't wrestle the in the same sport. Well they did but Gotch's matches were legitimate matches with no pre-determined winner unlike Bruno's matches. They both were fantastic draws and both could have a match for seemingly an eternity at points.
I think I will give this one to Bruno for the simple fact Gotch is completely out of his element. He has never worked a pre determined match (to my knowledge anyways) which will make it very difficult for him to actually wrestle a match in today's world. It's just really hard to vote for a guy that no one on this site has ever seen a match of and as far as I'm concerned has no clue on the style Bruno (and everyone else in this tournament) wrestles. What's he gonna do, bearhug, ride him around on the mat for 2 hours? It would be the worst match of all time in any fan of today's eyes.
So yeah I will go for the guy who actually has experience in theatrics, character development and was a legitimate draw in what all of us consider professional wrestling.
03-15-2013, 09:28 AM
My plan was to make a half arsed attempt to push Bruno this year to take advantage of the 'people being spoon fed nonsense history by the WWE' factor, but he's up against a round one opponent who he should probably lose to.
Both men were old school grapplers; Gotch was considerably better at it than Bruno.
Gotch lost less and won more against a much wider selection of opponents and styles. Gotch was a more dominant national draw. Gotch was more relevant to the business.
There really aren't a whole lot of reasons to vote Bruno.
03-15-2013, 10:31 PM
This Bruno guy is going into the WWE Hall of Fame this year so he must be pretty good. I vote for him. I think a seven and a half year title reign followed by a four year title reign is enough to justify the vote.
03-16-2013, 04:11 PM
I'm not sure I agree with Gelgarin on this one. Shocking.
But it's not so much because I think Bruno Sammartino is better, I just don't think Gotch really belongs in this tournament. He was wrestling before World War 1, and more importantly before Ed Lewis and his successors invented professional wrestling as we know it now. I don't think it's even certain that his matches were all fixed.
Gotch wrestled in front of bigger national audiences, but benefitted from the fact that people believed in wrestling until after he retired. I voted for Sammartino, because I think comparing Gotch to someone more recent is a pointless exercise.
03-16-2013, 04:35 PM
5 years undefeated but he only competed in 160 matches total in his 14 years career... meaning that his title years had about 60 bouts. I wonder how many bouts Sammartino had in his decade plus as Champion?
Sammartino for being a proven long term champion without month long breaks between bouts and being tremendously over without the aid of weeks long build ups gets my vote.
Not sure what to make of Gotch being in this either. Like, he wasn't a prowrestler. If we are putting him in, we might as well put Jon Jones in. it's exactly the same in my mind.
I'm not opposed to it though, it's interesting and gives another dynamic. I think Gotch is actually helped here by the fact that Sammartino can shoot - there's a chance this would be booked as a legit match since that's all Gotch can do, hence he'd go over because he's a thousand times better at shooting than Sammartino could be.
I dno it's so hard to vote. Next up for him is Eddie or Dr Death - Steve Williams was an amateur wrestler of some prestige too so maybe he could shoot with him too.
I guess it comes down to whether we are to assume that Gotch would shoot his way through the tournament, take everything in kayfabe, in which case he is probably the tournament favourites along with Angle, Lesnar, Big Show and Andre. I'm gonna keep some sanity here and say that wouldn't happen and while I'm voting in kayfabe, I'm also voting based on some semblance of booking skill.
As such, Gotch and Sammartino shoot for a while, Gotch getting the upperhand before Sammartino gets him disqualified/counted out somehow. I dno. This just makes no sense and I want to end it before my head hurts. Bruno through.
03-16-2013, 10:31 PM
Y'know what, I've done research on Mr. Gotch. Not only have I never seen Gotch, I've also never seen George Hackenschimdt, nor have I ever seen Tom Jenkins, Stanislaus Zybszko or anyone that Frank Gotch wrestled...I can get where Mr. Gelgarin is coming from concerning this matchup, and he is, I'm sure 100 percent correct in his asessment. He's probably totally correct. Bruno probably shouldn't win on skills as a shooter or old school grappler, but I gave this to Bruno on terms as a sports entertainer, and as a professional wrestler as we know them to be today. Bruno is still very much old school, but he is also more sports entertainer than Gotch ever was. I grant you, in a shoot, I'd bet that Gotch would hand Bruno his nut sack and feed it to him, but in the parameters of this tourney, which is consisted primarily of sports entertainers(yes even a shooter and hooker like Thesz was a sports entertainer), I'll take the Living Legend over Mr. Gotch. Gotch probably never had to participate in a match that was a "work', so I think his match w/ Bruno would probably be one of the single most boring and sleep inducing matches of this whole tournament...Bruno wins by DQ when Gotch goes over the line in rough house techniques. Bruno moves on, albiet just barely. Brunos' two title reigns ,which amounted to over eleven years, plus his 200 plus sellouts of MSG during his prime is enough for me to put him over here..maybe he doesn't deserve it against Gotch,, but I guess this is a case of going with the devil I know against the devil I don't...Bruno moves on
03-17-2013, 03:46 AM
I can get where Mr. Gelgarin is coming from concerning this matchup, and he is, I'm sure 100 percent correct in his asessment.
My thoughts exactly. What would a shoot wrestler of his status (legend/demigod/whatever) be doing in a pro wrestling tournament? Makes me wonder who put him on their list instead of a foreign main eventer of recent history. :suspic:
With all the press Mr. Sammartino has gotten in the past few weeks there was no way sheep were not going to vote for him. Bruno gots this after a long, boring match.
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