"I'm Black, Where's my Championship Belt?"

[IC25]

Booker T. The Rock. Ron Simmons. Shelton Benjamin.

The history of African American Championships in Professional Wrestling - especially in the WWE - is about as long and distinguished as a Nixon expose on political ethics. With the NWA refusing to recognize the title reign of Bobo Brazil, many people look at Ron Simmons' short WCW Title reign in the early 90's as the first major world title reign a black professional wrestler has ever had. The Rock went on to add to it, though he's mixed race and identifies a lot with his Samoan heritage as much as with his African heritage. Booker T ALSO turned the trick in WCW, where Simmons had. Shelton never got higher than Intercontinental Gold.

Flash forward to 2008, and "coincidentally" after racially charged comments made by Michael Hayes to Mark Henry, the WWE is the embodiment of championship diversification.

Cryme Tyme rehired, in line for a major title push.

Kofi Kingston, a relative rookie, wins the IC Title.

Mark Henry, a perannial jobber to the stars, wins the ECW Title (maybe a year after Bobby Lashley held it).

Shelton Benjamin, usually a permanent resident of the WWE dog house, wins the US Title.

The trend is apparent. WWE has said that they are going after a flagging African American market, while others feel they are trying to make ammends for the comments by Hayes, especially after not firing the former Freebird.

Do you think the WWE is putting titles on African American wrestlers to make ammends for the comments by Hayes? Are they doing it to increase the market share with African Americans? Are they doing it in good faith? Or are they doing it because these guys are legitimate title holders?

Personally, this has shades of late WCW, where title reigns were commodities promised to wrestlers to sign contracts. If championships are being given to African American wrestlers simply because of their race, does that cheapen what should be an otherwise impressive accomplishment?

[TM]

I think the WWE is just realizing the talent they have that are african-american. The African-american audience does make up a large portion of the WWE audience as well, so WWE is trying to cash in on that.

ECW Title- Bobby Lashley was groomed for that spot, as it was his way of jumping to the top of the WWE, for a cup of Tea.
- Mark Henry is by far the most dominant man in ECW. Hes more realistic for the title, than Tommy Dreamer, the long term ECW Wrestler. Hes also been a long serving employee of the WWE, as was in line for at least some gold on his resume besides the European championship. he has put enough people over, time to get a reward

Intercontinental Championship- I was hoping with Shelton in the feuds with Nitro and Carlito that the title would start to mean something. now none of them are even on Raw. Now he is the US Champion, and in line for a major push. That is one great brightspot for this young man who looks to be in amazing shape, versatile, and a long term employee on his way.

Kofi Kingston is good. Hes good on the ring, and people love his character. People from the Caribbean are cool, just ask Carlito. Jericho doesn't need the IC belt anymore, KK was a perfect fit for it.

Cryme Tyme should never have been fired. Their little performance that led to them being fired was unfortunate. but they are a good tag team, and in a organization that has no over tag teams, they are one. Hopefully they get some gold soon enough.

[HBK-aholic]

If the championships are being given to them solely for that reason, then yes of course it would undermine the win. As it would for any reason other then then earning it. If Triple H only won the belt because he was McMahons family,then that undermines the accomplishment, as well as making the belt lose value, or prestige.

The WWE championship, as well as most others in the promotion, is a prestigious thing. Almost al children in the world have heard of the likes of Hulk Hogan, Shawn Michaels, John Cena, Austin etc. And that's because they were WWE champion. But to become WWE champion, they had to earn thatsupport beforehand, making it a circle which continued until a link in it broke.

Personally, I don't think the WWE is very race orientated. Comments have been made by members of staff on the WWE which could indicate that. However as a promotion I don't think race means very much. People are pushed for all sorts of reasons, some agree with a champion, others do not. That will always happen. But I think if someone suggested any of these wrestlers had it easy in the promotion due to their race, it'd be very disrespectful.

Shelton Benjamin, for example is a great talent. I love watching him in the ring, and it seems he's finally been accepted by a great deal of fans, compared to the amount of critics I saw for him at one point. He's been working for a long time to get this recognition, and he got the championship down to his own skill and hard work. If he was a white performer this would have panned out in exactly the same way.

Usually, McMahon gives the belt to the most 'over' person in the company, whether that's face or heel status. The wrestler that makes him the most money, due to fans liking them is the one with the title. Racism is something which has always affected the world, and something which always will. In recent years the amount of racism shown has decreased, however it is still there. As a thought to be kept in the back of your mind, maybe it wasn't the WWE that was being racist, but the fans. As much as they like to disagree with the champion, as I said earlier, the champion is chosen due to the amount of people willing to pay money to see him. I'm not saying this is definitely the case, but maybe some fans didn't want to pay for to see a black champion,therefore there wouldn't be one.

[TheOneBigWill]

I think it's hard to determine whether or not it was strictly and only because of the racist comments made by Hayes.

On one hand it's easily acceptable to just push off that Mark Henry isn't talented, or capable enough to be a World Heavyweight Champion, even by E.C.W. standards, and therefore he was more or less handed the Championship as a way to make ammends.

On the other, however, you have to look at select African American Champions. While Booker T. was completely deserving of his Championship, I don't know the full situation regarding Ron Simmons. However The Rock (to my knowledge) was never handed anything because of his race or heritage, so to say otherwise would be a highly opinionated move.

Now if you fast forward to the current situation, I'll break it down by Champion and situation.

Kofi Kingston: Arguably going through a moderate Goldberg sized undefeated streak on E.C.W., and mysteriously enough the first guy to defeat him is another African American in Shelton Benjamin, connection? I don't know. But the bigger question is does it honestly matter? I would say no.

Continuing.. Kofi magically gets drafted to the top brand in the company. In his first match while being on that brand, he wins a Championship. So it's asked, is it in continuation of saying "sorry" to the African Americans in the company today? I would honestly say in this case.. NO. Why? Because Kofi was on a push long before the comments were ever made. And when the Jericho/H.B.K. feud came about, he needed someone to drop the Championship to, without hurting himself and at the same time boosting someone else.

Kofi was the logical choice, next to Rey Mysterio, and Mysterio was already widely and well known. So Kofi gets the nod, because he deserved it in my opinion, not because of his skin color.

Shelton Benjamin: In this situation, it's very hard to say he was given the Championship for his skills over his skin color. I would honestly say this could very well be a situation in which it was in an attempt to make ammends and apologize to the African American race.

When you look at the situation, it's hard not to believe that. Matt Hardy, the now former United States Champion, was hugely pushed into that spot. They'd worked on pushing him for over a year and wanted to make him quite possibly the next moderate Main Event threat to a guy like Edge. It could've been completely possible. Then, out of nowhere, he loses two straight to Shelton Benjamin, without any build, any push, or any reason.

Another ironic factor. Last night during the Pay Per View, it was mentioned that Shelton Benjamin made history, by becoming the only guy to apparently unseat a United States Champion at the Great American Bash. Why would they push that so hard, if not to give Benjamin even MORE credit? That's a highlight and a "fun-fact" that I really doubt hardly anyone would care about.

Cryme Tyme: I'd honestly say the "jury" is still out on exactly what's in-line for them. They're being teamed with Cena, yet they were no where to be found last night. They could be in-line for a Tag Team Championship match, but I wouldn't say it's because they A.) deserve it or B.) because of their skin color.

I think Cryme Tyme is only in the position they're in, because you really don't have any other strong teams on Raw to provide the challenge to the Tag Team Champions. So Cryme Tyme shouldn't even be involved in this topic, one way or another.

Mark Henry: Without even stopping to think, I'd instantly say he was given the Championship due to skin color and as a way to say "We're sorry". Weren't the comments made by Hayes directed at Henry to begin with? I could be wrong on that, if I am then so be it.. but the fact is this.

Mark Henry isn't talented. He's in the business much like a lot of the others are, because of his look. Because of his background. He was in the Olympics once upon a time, never won anything, but him being in them is all the W.W.E. really needs to promote and push the crap outta him.

Henry has had multiple chances to prove he could be a legit. contender for anything, and in my opinion really fell into this title because through a television storyline he was the only guy in the match, from the same brand the title was needed to go to. On the outside, if the comments were made, especially toward him, then that explains roughly everything you need to really know.

Anyone who thinks Henry won this Championship because he deserved it, however, is grasping at things in the dark.

[Shawns#1 Fan]

This is aa very sensitive subject. Im African American and was thinking about racism in WWE as well.

Bobby Lashley: The guy was made for the ECW title and was actually the only reason i watched it. He was a tremendous athlete, need a little mic skills but to my me he was a better wrestler than John Cena.

Mark Henry: Has been there for 12 years and has paid his dues.

Shelton Benjamin: Just the same as Bobby. He is moving up on the ladder to success. He was great as the IC Champion and im sure will be a great US Champion as well.

Kofi Kingston: Very entertaining and fun to watch

Cryme Tyme: I love their gimmick but if i was Vince i would dump it. If wanted black people could make a huge deal about their gimmick. Ghetto thugs that wear bullit proof vest ( JTG used to back in 06). They were fired which im sure didn't sit well with not only blacks but whites as well. Then you look towards the end of 2007 around October/ November all the Blacks disappear overnight basically. Which led me to believe maybe there is alot more racism in the WWE we don't know about.

Usually, McMahon gives the belt to the most 'over' person in the company, whether that's face or heel status. The wrestler that makes him the most money, due to fans liking them is the one with the title. Racism is something which has always affected the world, and something which always will. In recent years the amount of racism shown has decreased, however it is still there. As a thought to be kept in the back of your mind, maybe it wasn't the WWE that was being racist, but the fans. As much as they like to disagree with the champion, as I said earlier, the champion is chosen due to the amount of people willing to pay money to see him. I'm not saying this is definitely the case, but maybe some fans didn't want to pay for to see a black champion,therefore there wouldn't be one.

Your right HBK-aholic. Thats the case Shawn shoul've one at Wrestlemania 23. Same goes gor Bobby Lashley at Bash 07. I think when it comes to being black the WWE plays it safe. Its like saying "you can get the ECW title all you want,hell develope some mic skill you can even get the World heavyweight title, But....... we're can wait awhile for the WWE title." Which means your not gettin the title. I like you and you know your stuff HBK-aholic but im goin to have to say that in terms of a full African American winnig the WWE championship it just will not happen. Which is messed up because i would love to see MVP with that belt. But think about besides The Rock who Black has ever held the WWE Championsip? Plus The Rock doesn't consider himself Black he says he is Samoan. All i can say is that if your black and want to be a wrestler then know is your time. As said from Wrestlezone.com a few months ago

[CenaHardyFan]

Bobby Lashley - He deseerved everything he got he is just as good as John Cena to me they were the best wrestlers in WWE in 2007.

Shelton Benjamin - Well , he has a futuree , but Vince was wasting it on useless matches and fueds at ONS 2007 he and Haas had a good match against Hardys , but that was it for him. Putting him as US Champion was a good move.

Kofi Kingston - I wasn't expecting Kofi to be drafted to RAW and win the I-C Title. Not saying he didnt deserve it he just needed to prove himself a little bit more.

Cryme Tyme - They just work very well with John Cena having nothing to do with this topic

Mark Henry - one word = no talent

[TheOneBigWill]

I like you and you know your stuff HBK-aholic but im goin to have to say that in terms of a full African American winnig the WWE championship it just will not happen.

Not to burst your bubble, but Booker T. was the World Heavyweight Champion for a very lengthy time in the W.W.E., including a victory in a Champion of Champions match that crowned him over the other two Champions.

So how can you say a full African American will never win the W.W.E. Championship, when the fact is Booker T. unofficially and technically has already proved that wrong.

Maybe you'd know that a little more if your head wasn't so far up Rebecca's backside. :lmao:

[FTS]

I think it's merely a coincidence. For one, who else was Jericho going to drop that belt to? If it was involved in the HBK feud, it would be just a prop, further delegitimizing it. Giving it to Kofi gives someone who, as noted above, was already getting a mega push. The WWE introduces guys in two ways nowadays. One, putting them on TV and having Umaga squash them a couple of times before letting them beat Shannon Moore, or, two, starting people against jobbers and slowly stepping up the competition until they get over. The second way is how Kofi was introduced, and that is the way early champions are intoduced. Expect Kozlov to get some kind of belt soon as well.

Mark Henry was just the most logical choice to get the ECW belt. It's top stars were drafted or already tag champs. Tommy Dreamer sucks, and he is just holding it for Matt Hardy, who dropped to Shelton. MVP (who is black) held that belt forever, so you couldn't give it back to him. Jeff Hardy doesn't need that belt. Shelton is new, and talented, and is being used to get the belt over, instead of using the belt to get over. All he needs is TV time.

[Crimson Bonez]

Not to burst your bubble, but Booker T. was the World Heavyweight Champion for a very lengthy time in the W.W.E., including a victory in a Champion of Champions match that crowned him over the other two Champions.

So how can you say a full African American will never win the W.W.E. Championship, when the fact is Booker T. unofficially and technically has already proved that wrong.

Maybe you'd know that a little more if your head wasn't so far up Rebecca's backside. :lmao:

Not to burst your bubble but she said "THE WWE title", the world heavy weight title isnt the wwe title, its a world title in the wwe, the wwe title the only afican american to win that was the rock so far and the only african american to win the world heavy weight title was booker or king bookah at the time, so 2 african americans have won world titles in the wwe

now back on subject, i can see alot of sides to this story 1st off saying im black myself, but aside from that do i think that the comments made by hayes has something to do with things...yes, mark henry gets called a racial slur and coinincidently he beomes ecw champ, i dont know about the whole he paid his dues thing, alot of ppl has paid there does and not a got or atleast a 2nd-ary title

next my fav. wreslter shelton benjamin: im glad hes got gold, it actually fits better with his godl standard gimmic for him to actually be holding gold, but they needed the us title back on smackdown, they needed a heel to do that who better than benjamin, although i dont like how he got it with no build up to the match, now i see it that way but then i see it in another way MAYBE they just gave it to him cause he african and they want more african viewers/hayes incident and it MAYBE a way to get another african to hold a belt just to MAYBE lose to maybe jeff and not hold the title agin for another 2 years and to elevate jeff to the ME, and there was all what foley was saying about him last night at the bash what was mentioned earlier

cryme tyme: raw has but only 3 tag teams cryme tyme, team priceless, and cade/y2j, cade and y2j are obviously busy so who else will fued for the titles cryme tyme, so no i dont see this in making ammends to the hayes incident

kingston: alot of people were saying that the the IC has lost its presteige and the last two holder (jeff, y2j) did nothing with them, giving to belt to kingston a fresh new champ and opening up fresh new fueds, kingston obviously has a big fan base and i like his different style of wreslting, a style if im not mistaken is new, and with raw doing there "new fresh faces" he fist perfectly in that

now somebody who nobody has said yet that ezikeial guy or however you spell it, another new african face in wwe, now when i first heard about kendrick's new look and a potential push i couldnt believe it but after seeing the debut he acted like a drunk entering and exiting the ring, his shoulders in that jacket looked weird, and alothough that has nothing to do with it he has this bodyguard, who JR and foley kept talking about more than the match, so it got me thinking, maybe they're just using kendrick to elevate this guy perhaps

so in-conclusion some things i beleive for to make ends on the hayes incident (henry), legitimate title holders (benjamin, kingston), and to bring in more african veiwer (all these guys holding titles at the same time) so like i said i can see it alot of ways

[Shawns#1 Fan]

Not to burst your bubble, but Booker T. was the World Heavyweight Champion for a very lengthy time in the W.W.E., including a victory in a Champion of Champions match that crowned him over the other two Champions.

So how can you say a full African American will never win the W.W.E. Championship, when the fact is Booker T. unofficially and technically has already proved that wrong.

Maybe you'd know that a little more if your head wasn't so far up Rebecca's backside. :lmao:

Last time i checked the WWE Championship and the World Heavyweight Championship are two totally got damn diffrent things. Yes i do remember Booker T but tell me when he held the same title Triple H is holding know, or John Cena who held the belt 3 times. You can't because it never has been done.

[Big Sexy]

I think all of the black wrestlers that have titles now deserved them.

Mark Henry- He's been in the wwe 12 years and has always been a solid performer and the ECW title is more like the IC and US titles anyway

Kofi Kingston- A very talented young wrestler that the crowd loves and they needed to put the belt on someone new because Jericho was never defending it and Jericho only got it because of Jeff Hardy's suspension

Shelton Benjamin- He is probably the most underrated wrestler in the wwe and it's about time he got another push

I think the wwe needs to keep pushing the black wrestlers because the fact that only 5 black wrestlers have ever held Heavyweight titles in WCW and WWE combined is horrible.
Booker T should have definately won more then 1 Heavyweight title in WWE and its about time the wwe is finally pushing their black superstars

[Mighty NorCal]

I do find it somewhat ironic that upon Hayes, return we have seen this "black out"

I think its couldve been somewhat subtle if it was just Kingston and Benjamin, becuase both of those make absolute sense. Kingston had IC title written all over him at least a month ago, and Benjamin I think warrants one last attempt at establishment in the upper mid card. Mark Henry, the actual object of Haye's attrocity against humanity (sarcasm folks) getting the spot he has, with Atlas even being brought in as a MOUTHPEICE (LO fuckin L) is the most obvious and egregious thing here. There are SO many "monster like" guys they couldve picked for this spot. Act like Umaga wouldnt have been roughly 784 times more entertaining here. Yea he wouldve. Now, since Hayes wanted to drop an "N" bomb, we get to watch Teusday night Henry every week, up until at least SummerSlam. Ill take Kingston and Benjamin, but Henry is the price we have to pay to live in this uber over sensitive soceity of today....

[Y 2 Jake]

There was no real reason for WWE to push any of those black people. Yet here we are with several of them as champions.

Mark Henry might have been a good ECW Champuion about 2 years ago. But he's not been a prominet force on WWE TV in months. Yet he was suddenly put into the title picture on ECW. And he won the title above two wrestlers who are better, and more credible. Everyone knows that Matt Hardy is destined to be the main boy on ECW. Yet beating Henry won't mean half as much as defeating Big Show or Kane.

Shelton Benjamin is the same as Henry. You can't honestly say that they should have put the title on him over Jeff Hardy, Kennedy or Umaga. So two of them might not have benefited from the title run. But Kennedy would have.

Kofi Kingston is the same as Shelton. It was out of nowhere and there are better people to put the title on. They're currently pushing Cade harder than him, and he'll be somebody who will actually go on and do something in the company.

So I don't see the point in any of them as champions myself. They should go to wrestlers who would do the best with the belt, or who would benefit the most from them.

But they're just black so who really gives a shit. It's like saying that Ron Simmons was the first black world champion. Who cares? He was shit, which had nothing to do with the colour of his skin.

[J.R Walker]

I see a lot of people on here struggling to justify the pushes of Kofi, Shelton, Cryme Tyme, Mark Henry as being a result of something other than the Michael Hayes incident. In all honesty, I think that this topic even having to be brought up does a HUGE disservice to the superstars themselves and is highly disrespectful of each of their athletic/entertaining ability.

Just because someone is Black, Latino or anything non-White, does not mean that they were "given" there position without any merit.

At the same time, just because someone is pushed, it doesn't mean that that person has paid their dues or "deserves it". (Great Khali, Big Daddy V, Vladimir Koslov, Hardcore Holly)

And just because someone is pushed it does NOT necessarily mean that they took a spot from someone else.

Shelton Benjamin is the same as Henry. You can't honestly say that they should have put the title on him over Jeff Hardy, Kennedy or Umaga. So two of them might not have benefited from the title run. But Kennedy would have.

Kofi Kingston is the same as Shelton. It was out of nowhere and there are better people to put the title on. They're currently pushing Cade harder than him, and he'll be somebody who will actually go on and do something in the company.

I strongly disagree with King Jake on these points. I CAN honestly say Jeff Hardy, Kennedy and Umaga have each main evented on a pay-per-view and have each had their chance to make it to the top level. All three have violated wellness policy and with the exception of Umaga the violations occurred during the peak of their respective pushes. I happen to enjoy these talents as much as the next guy but I don't think pushing Shelton is in anyway a slight at any of them.

Lance Cade in my opinion needs A LOT of work... maybe one day... but I do know for right now I'd MUCH rather watch an hour of Kofi Kingston than 10 minutes of Lance Cade.

So before we judge whether or not the E is implementing some kind of "affirmative action" for pushes, why don't we watch the talent as we would any white talent before we judge whether or not they deserve the belt/push.

And in my opinion Henry is presently surprising me with his title reign...


Just for reference...
Current African-American WWE Superstars:

RAW: Kofi, Shad, JTG, D-Lo Brown, Ron Simmons:: 5/45 on Roster
Smackdown: Big Daddy V, Shelton and MVP:: 3/36 on Roster
ECW: Mark Henry, Tony Atlas, Elijah Burke, Teddy Long Boogeyman:: 5/24 on Roster

Total 13/105 in all names on WWE.com + (Tony Atlas + D-Lo Brown who haven't been added)

[Y 2 Jake]

Just because someone is Black, Latino or anything non-White, does not mean that they were "given" there position without any merit.

I think in the case of the current champions it does. There are just better options. You can't not push somebody for months/years on end and then expect people to care about them when they suddenly get a title.




I strongly disagree with King Jake on these points. I CAN honestly say Jeff Hardy, Kennedy and Umaga have each main evented on a pay-per-view and have each had their chance to make it to the top level. All three have violated wellness policy and with the exception of Umaga the violations occurred during the peak of their respective pushes. I happen to enjoy these talents as much as the next guy but I don't think pushing Shelton is in anyway a slight at any of them.

Each has had their pushed. And from each push it's been obvious that each has something to offer. Shelton does to. And maybe he'll prove it with this title reign. But it'll take him a hell of a lot longer to get there because his WWE career has been stop-start. WWE need new main eventers now, not in a year or so.

Lance Cade in my opinion needs A LOT of work... maybe one day... but I do know for right now I'd MUCH rather watch an hour of Kofi Kingston than 10 minutes of Lance Cade.

Cade has been around a heel of a lot longer than Kingston. He's also aligned with Jericho which will aid him. Sure he needs work. But so does Kingston. And Cade will improve a hundred times faster by being involved with Y2J & HBK than Kofi will be by being involved with Paul Birchill.

[HBK-aholic]

I think that race is just a shitty subject to bring up. If you want to be a typical black crybaby about a balck person not being WWE champion go talk to the NAACP, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the Rutgers girls basketball team.

Typical black crybaby?

It's a damn business, color has little to do with it unless you make that the issue. Michael Hayes did, he made race an issue and now as a result we have Kofi Kingston who is way too new to be holding any kind of gold no matter how good he is, Shelton Benjamin who is about as skilled on the mic as Hellen Keller, and Mark Henry who has no talent period, he's a fat guy who calls himself a Silverback which is a gorilla so I really don't want to hear anything about racism.

Kofi Kingston deserves a shot at championship glory. His race has nothing to do with it. Same goes for Benjamin. He's one of the most underrated guys in the business. Hard worker, definitely. And we've had The Great Khali as Heavyweight Champion, mic skills didn't come into that so what makes you think they'd come into it here?


You can take your so called racism argument and piss off.

And you can be nice and polite please :).

Talent makes champions, that's it. The fans, make champions, not skin asssholes. Just because a black guy hasn't held that title means nothing.

Ahuh. Which is where a point I made comes in. Maybe the fans were racist at one point, not allowing a black champion.

If I went by your logic than I could say it is racism that mark Henry is beating all the white people, and that it was racist for Kofi Kingston to beat Jericho, and racist for Benjamin beating Hardy. I could go on and mention the racism involved in Bobby Lashley destroying every white guy he faced accept John Cena who acts black.

I love how you have to say 'except' Cena. I mean, is it racist Cena went through a phase where he beat everyone and anyone? No.

Racism is a bullshit fabrication thought up by those who wished to make money and gain power from the idea of it, mostly your so called black leaders like I named Jesse jackson, Al Sharpton, Louis Farakahn, all crooks robbing their own people and selling them lies of the white mans opression.

Racism is very much real. How can you say otherwise? White people did oppress black people at one point. White people kept them as slaves. Still today, everyone has a bit of racism in them.

Racism in the WWE is a lie, One guy shoots off at the mouth and all ofthe sudden time to kiss the black guys asses or they might get angry, oh no not that, you can't piss off black people or you'll get a fuckin lawsuit on you for racism and hatecrimes, even if they are attacking you, you hit back it's a hate crime. That's bullshit and so is what's going on now in WWE. Just because someone got offended, now we have to see real talneted wretlers loose their titles to guys who either don't deserve them or aren't ready for them. Good job, you guys cry and get your way as always.

I kind of agree with you, about the hate crime business. People use racism for too much, and usually it's the white people who get the blame. It's something which angers me also.

But that doesn't mean Benjamin, Kingston etc do not deserve their championships. McMahon chooses champions for reasons he decides. Race doesn't mean anything. Punk doesn't exactly deserve his championship, and he's white. So what is the WWE doing there, then?

[Seal]

It really is unacceptable behaviour though. And apparently it's been consistent with Hayes, it's the kind of thing that wouldn't be tolerated at all outside of WWE.

I'm not sure about Kofi's title reign and how it's going so far. I guess he is quite popular.
Shelton is a talented athlete and I always enjoy his matches, I personally won't complain about that.
Mark Henry is a good worker, and he's not terribly boring. He's good on the mic and a decent powerful monster type. Wasn't a terrible move giving him the belt and besides, it's only ECW.
I never picked up on this trend until I read this thread. Even if WWE was doing this based on race, it's not very noticeable. It's more being fair towards the black athletes I think, Cryme Time are doing pretty well and getting great pops now that they've been given the opportunity. I hope this means something is in store for MVP eventually too, because I feel he's about ready to be elevated to the main event scene at some point in the near future.

[Shawns#1 Fan]

There was no real reason for WWE to push any of those black people. Yet here we are with several of them as champions.

Mark Henry might have been a good ECW Champuion about 2 years ago. But he's not been a prominet force on WWE TV in months. Yet he was suddenly put into the title picture on ECW. And he won the title above two wrestlers who are better, and more credible. Everyone knows that Matt Hardy is destined to be the main boy on ECW. Yet beating Henry won't mean half as much as defeating Big Show or Kane.

Shelton Benjamin is the same as Henry. You can't honestly say that they should have put the title on him over Jeff Hardy, Kennedy or Umaga. So two of them might not have benefited from the title run. But Kennedy would have.

Kofi Kingston is the same as Shelton. It was out of nowhere and there are better people to put the title on. They're currently pushing Cade harder than him, and he'll be somebody who will actually go on and do something in the company.

So I don't see the point in any of them as champions myself. They should go to wrestlers who would do the best with the belt, or who would benefit the most from them.

But they're just black so who really gives a shit. It's like saying that Ron Simmons was the first black world champion. Who cares? He was shit, which had nothing to do with the colour of his skin.

I don't care what else you say, but what the fuck do you mean: "there just black so who cares?" I care. and if thats the case Ric Flair was shit. He was a decent wrestler at best. You shoul watch what you say because i see a lot of Michaels Hayes in you.

[IC25]

In all honesty, I think that this topic even having to be brought up does a HUGE disservice to the superstars themselves and is highly disrespectful of each of their athletic/entertaining ability.


As the threat starter, I just want to make a point in response to this comment. I am actually thrilled you feel this way. This topic was posted with the honest to God intention of stirring up some emotions in you people, and I see it has worked.

The fact is, whether or not we feel certain stars are being pushed because of skin color or not, there are undoubtedly individuals out there who may well feel this way. I highly doubt there are no bigoted wrestling fans out there.

Sports such as Professional American Football are held under a microscope constantly if they bypass an African American Coach. We are merely discussing whether we look at professional wrestling and hold it to a similar standard or not. To be honest, a huge reason I even thought about this was because of the recent "It's a Great Time to be Black and in WWE" column posted on the main site.

Feeling that African American professional wrestlers are receiving pushes to make ammends for comments or to earn back revenue dollars isn't racism - it's a response to a question on what is motivating WWE to make it's decisions right now.

[J.R Walker]

I think in the case of the current champions it does. There are just better options. You can't not push somebody for months/years on end and then expect people to care about them when they suddenly get a title.

You make a valid point, it's not fair to expect people to care just because they have a title. Look at Santino initially, the intercontinental title did nothing for him. I do think though that since they have the title now, they have the opportunity to give the fans a reason to care. The title helps them in that regard by making fans who would otherwise dismiss them take a second look.


Each has had their pushed. And from each push it's been obvious that each has something to offer. Shelton does to. And maybe he'll prove it with this title reign. But it'll take him a hell of a lot longer to get there because his WWE career has been stop-start. WWE need new main eventers now, not in a year or so.

Once again I agree that the WWE does need fresh main eventers and that's where Kennedy, Hardy and Umaga even MVP are at right now. They hold positions in the Upper Mid-Card and are just waiting for that fued or chance to break into the Main Event. Shelton is no where near as established as they are and that's why I feel he could use the rub of being a title holder more than each of them.

Cade has been around a heel of a lot longer than Kingston. He's also aligned with Jericho which will aid him. Sure he needs work. But so does Kingston. And Cade will improve a hundred times faster by being involved with Y2J & HBK than Kofi will be by being involved with Paul Birchill.

Cade does have an excellent opportunity right now to mix in with those future hall of famers. I actually hope he does make it and become better as a result, but I don't see how the Intercontinental Title would aid him in his fued with HBK since Y2J and HBK are WAY past that level.

JRW

[Ropow]

The only place where I believe racism is directly involved in is with Mark Henry, The Big Show and Kane's match was set and as soon as Hayes gets unsuspended; I believe he was unsuspended a week or so before Mark Henry's qualifying match against Kane. Mark Henry didn't do anything to really deserve his shot and was just kind of thrust into it for whatever reason. You could go so far as to say that Mark Henry was just thrown into that situation due to being the only member left on the ECW roster after the Draft so perhaps it was a plan to put it on him to keep it on ECW, but I believe it could have been held by more credible stars. Elijah Burke maybe would have been a good transitional champion and probably would have had a nice believable feud with Matt Hardy but I guess this is what the writers decided on which I find a bit fishy.

Shelton is a different story, he is an excellent worker, I believe he could one day be an upper midcarder if the writers actually decided to give him an oppurtunity and put him in serious feuds. Which now with the United States Championship could be very likely. He's been an Intercontinental Champion and a Tag Team Champion and it was never a race issue at that point. Now because of Hayes comments his title reign is going to be questioned when in all honesty who else needs the belt on Smackdown. Hardy doesn't need the US Championship to add to his list, nor does Kennedy or even Umaga. MVP may be a decent feud for Shelton but MVP if they decide to push him will soon be above the US Championship with Kennedy Hardy and Umaga.

Kofi Kingston is a very entertaining and gifted young talent, he may be a bit early for the belt but again who else would you put in his position; the big discussion is Lance Cade but currently he is not in need of the belt.. Usually titles are used to help push someone or huge storylines are used to help push someone without a belt. Lance currently is involved in something that is much bigger than the Intercontinental Championship and he doesn't need the belt to help the feud so why put it on him. Burchill is currently in a feud with Kofi which I can understand, they need something to do with Burchill and Burchill isn't established yet so this feud while boring is something they're actually doing to push some of their younger talent who aren't involved in big storylines. There aren't many choices for people who need to belt and that is why I agree on Kofi getting it; if they want to build him up giving him the belt this early isn't a bad idea, as long as he sticks around Mid Card for awhile, if he is suddenly thrust upon the ME scene or Upper MidCard I'll begin to disagree with managements thinking.

I feel bad; as bad as I can feel for people who are handed gold in a show that is basically a soap opera for kids and men, that two out of the three mentioned are going to have their title runs questioned because of one person. If D Lo Brown suddenly defeats CM Punk in a WHC match, and Big Daddy V comes back and defeats Triple H for the World Championship... then maybe I'll be a believer.

[A.J.]

I think the sad reality is that "yes" that African Americans are getting the gold so that the WWE can look after the whole Hayes incident. Its was a Public Relation nightmare when the the whole Hayes incident became known, and now the WWE is pushing certain African-Americans is to look good from a PR standpoint. The WWE is a business first, and they would sacrifice making some cash with guys who are billed a stop draws for guys who might not been seen in the same light to save face with public and once it all dies down some then the WWE can go back to the way it was. Now could we all be wrong? Maybe so, but after the Hayes incident it makes you wonder and from the looks of things I say it is due to the Hayes incident.

[Moon Knight]

Booker T. The Rock. Ron Simmons. Shelton Benjamin.

The history of African American Championships in Professional Wrestling - especially in the WWE - is about as long and distinguished as a Nixon expose on political ethics.

The problem here is that Blacks were held back for the most part, not many promoters wanted any and some blacks never saw the potential in wrestling. The market was smaller then and the money less then it is now, so the interest was in Baseball and Basketball not wrestling.




With the NWA refusing to recognize the title reign of Bobo Brazil, many people look at Ron Simmons' short WCW Title reign in the early 90's as the first major world title reign a black professional wrestler has ever had.

Well, Bobo Brazil rejected the title at first due to an injury Rogers claim to have, Brazil was later awarded the title but the NWA doesn’t recognize this change. Nobody can be really sure why they don’t recognize this change, but remember Rogers never officially lost the title because Brazil rejected it; at least I am sure that is how the NWA may see it. This backed by Rogers title reign never actually being seen as ended in the history books.

Ron Simmons is the first official Black heavyweight champion, but it lasted 151 days so I don’t see that as short because it was the 8th longest WCW title run history. They gave Simmons a nice run and should be applauded for that.






The Rock went on to add to it, though he's mixed race and identifies a lot with his Samoan heritage as much as with his African heritage. Booker T ALSO turned the trick in WCW, where Simmons had. Shelton never got higher than Intercontinental Gold.


The Rock is seen as black for the most part, he does have some Samoan heritage in him, but over the past few years less seems to call attention to it. As for Booker T, none of his runs lasted as long as Simmons one run with his longest being 120 days, Shelton doesn’t have something they did, and that is charisma, he is boring and never got over. Looking back Simmons may have had to longest title run of any black wrestler as his 1 run lasted longer than any of the rocks as well.


Flash forward to 2008, and "coincidentally" after racially charged comments made by Michael Hayes to Mark Henry, the WWE is the embodiment of championship diversification.
Are you sure he was the reason? The WWE became worried after Lashley, CorVon and Booker T all left; this caused them to think they didn’t have enough black wrestlers, which was true. Hayes may have been a side note to what the WWE already thought was a problem.

Cryme Tyme rehired, in line for a major title push.

They were in line before they got fired, yes the above helped them get back in but if the Cade & Murdoch situation never happened they would not have been fired in the first place. They were getting a push before this and rightfully so.

Kofi Kingston, a relative rookie, wins the IC Title.


He deserved it. The WWE needed young new talent to hold that title, was there anybody else who deserved it after it was clear Y2J and Jeff Hardy outgrew it? No, Kofi got it because he was the best choice for the job.

Mark Henry, a perannial jobber to the stars, wins the ECW Title (maybe a year after Bobby Lashley held it).

I have one problem here; he was rumored to be in line for a World Heavyweight title run on SD before Hayes said those things. Could this be the run they wanted to give him last year? They never did give him that run, and with other names around this is the best they could do.

Shelton Benjamin, usually a permanent resident of the WWE dog house, wins the US Title.



He also won the IC title 3 times holding it once for 244 days; this isn’t anything new for him. The WWE has been trying to get him a good push since the day he showed up. He is still a midcarder and may never get out of that range.

The trend is apparent. WWE has said that they are going after a flagging African American market, while others feel they are trying to make amends for the comments by Hayes, especially after not firing the former Freebird.



They needed to, they had next to no black wrestlers, I don’t see this as making amends because some of these guys were actually in line for runs before this happened. Ask yourself, how many people even knew what he said and how much pressure were they really under?

Do you think the WWE is putting titles on African American wrestlers to make amends for the comments by Hayes?

No, manly because some of these guys were in line for the runs before they got them and some cases already had runs, like with Shelton. CT has not gotten a run yet, and from the looks of it not even in the picture, but even they were being pushed before this. Yes the tag champs are in the feud but how much of this is between them and CT or between Cena and JBL?

Are they doing it to increase the market share with African Americans? Are they doing it in good faith? Or are they doing it because these guys are legitimate title holders?


I would say not, just because they have some black champs doesn’t mean Blacks will watch the show, they still lag in the caliber of the programs and until they fix that nothing will change. Good faith and legit title holders are the same to me, all are legit title holders minus Henry. Shelton has gotten these pushed before and the WWE has been wanting to get him over, same with CT. Kofi was being pushed months before he got the run, this isn’t just something they slapped on him but more something he earned by being able to work a good match and being over with the fans.

Personally, this has shades of late WCW, where title reigns were commodities promised to wrestlers to sign contracts. If championships are being given to African American wrestlers simply because of their race, does that cheapen what should be an otherwise impressive accomplishment?


Only Henry got that, but they wanted him to have a run before this, they rest were in no contract disputes at the time. The fact remains you can’t tell why they gave them run, you do know some got it before this and got a push, it would cheapen it because it means nothing, but at the same time even if they did do that, would you know? Do you think they admit that’s why they did it?

[Kurt]

Well from my standpoint,I see the Hayes incident being only reflected upon on Mark Henry.If the WWE was giving every black wrestler a title I guess we'll see Elijah Burke winning a title very soon-not.The problem with the current championship reigns is either they are over with the fans,Kofi Kingston,or just deserved a title after a long year and a half drought,Shelton Benjiman.Cryme Tyme looks to be going into the direction of being the new World Tag Team champions very soon,because they are over with the crowd since being w/ Cena.

[The Bearded One]

I think race has a little to do with these wrestlers getting the title now. I think they would have all received a title eventually, maybe excluding Mark Henry, but the Micheal Hayes incident just sped the process up. It's hard to deny the talents of Kofi Kingston and Shelton Benjamin. They would have gotten pushed anyway. Their race just determined the timing of it.

I don't think Mark Henry would be ECW Champion now if it wasn't for Maicheal Hayes. I think that is the sole reason he is the champion. He would still be a jobber to the stars. He might have one day got an U.S. or Intercontinental title run for being around for so long, but never anything too significant.

I can't remember when Cryme Tyme re-debuted. Was it bfore or after the whole Micheal Hayes thing?

In a weird way I kind of hope this is all race related, because then Elijah Burke will get the push he deserves.

[FTS]

I don't think the Michael Hayes incident was that big of a news item. The WWE doesn't need to cover for it, as I never saw anything about it on a national newscast or website that was not wrestling related. The IWC were the only one's who knew (or cared, Did AL Sharpton even know?) Does anyone honestly think the WWE was going to fool the IWC by putting three belts on three black guys? No, Kofi is super over, Shelton is the best athlete, and Mark Henry was the most logical choice to use to get Matt Hardy over.

Using the same logic, the WWE gave Punk the belt to let the IWC know that steroids are bad because he's straightedge.

[Danmen001]

Flash forward to 2008, and "coincidentally" after racially charged comments made by Michael Hayes to Mark Henry, the WWE is the embodiment of championship diversification.

I personally think that is a conicidence, I mean there is no reason put the business on the spot to say sorry to those that have been offended. There is a reason for each of these occurances, although you would probably need to look into it to see it.

Cryme Tyme rehired, in line for a major title push.

They are over with the fans, and they are now teaming with Cena. Basically them being over is the reason for this one.

Kofi Kingston, a relative rookie, wins the IC Title.

Hugely over with the fans, he has great wrestling skills. He won the belt because he is over, and he has been in line for this push for a while now.

Mark Henry, a perannial jobber to the stars, wins the ECW Title (maybe a year after Bobby Lashley held it).

They needed to get the belt back on ECW, Mark Henry was the only contender who was on that brand. Hence they give him the belt, just to fix the situation.

Shelton Benjamin, usually a permanent resident of the WWE dog house, wins the US Title.

I suspect this was to get the belt back on SD! and off of Hardy, who is now going for the ECW title gold.

You can see there is generally a particular reason for these things to occur.

[Davi323]

I call bullshit on the theory that its all an appeasement.

WWE Title: The Rock has held it 7 times, all before Michael Hayes' comments. He is only half black...but we all know that half black people are considered black by the vast majority of Americans.

Booker T won the WWE World Heavyweight title before Michael Hayes' comments, after he won the WCW version of the title 4 times earlier. The Rock also held this belt twice. Its also the same belt Ron Simmons held.

The IC title has been held by Ahmed Johnson, The Rock twice, the Godfather, D-Lo Brown, Booker T, and Shelton Benjamin 3 times. All occurring prior to Michael Hayes' comments. As for current IC champion, Kofi Kingston, isn't he exactly the kind of wrestler that should be wearing it? Isn't the belt specifically designed to enhance midcard talent? Kofi is incredibly talented, over with the fans, and as stated before, Jericho and HBK had no reason to feud over it, so give it to someone else. Kofi got the belt because WWE management realized this kid is simply amazing to watch.

On to the history of the US title...black title holders include Bobo Brazil, Booker T four times, Orlando Jordan, Bobby Lashley and MVP, all before Michael Hayes' comments. Current title holder Shelton Benjamin is a previous IC title holder, Tag team title holder, and since Matt Hardy is in ECW chasing Mark Henry's ECW title, it needed a new champion. Why not Shelton Benjamin? He has always been on the bubble for getting gold, and while he hasn't been rewarded often with titles, he is always put in the MITB matches at Wrestlemania. Could it possibly be that management had been looking for a reason to put a belt around Shelton Benjamin for a while, and simply had to wait for storylines to play out? You know, like the MVP/Matt Hardy one that took like two years to do...

ECW title: obviously, Bobby Lashley was being groomed for one of the two real World title level belts, so he was given this to see what he could do with it. Mark Henry has it because Kane moved back to RAW, Big Show has no need for the ECW title, and they wanted someone to be able to dominate ECW for a while. Mark Henry is a good fit here, he is a believable middle World level champion, but not believable as either WWE or World Heavyweight champ. The ECW title is just about right for him. I have a feeling the WWE was planning this for a while, as well.

It just happens to be that the current title holders are black. You can't take away from Kofi for winning it his first night on RAW, Carlito won the US title his first night in the company against Cena, and then repeated the same feat against the same opponent for the IC title his first night on RAW. Its been done before. Kofi Kingston is just fun to watch, so they gave him a belt. Shelton Benjamin was due, Mark Henry was due. Cryme Time is getting a push now, but, its really just a continuation from their previous run with the company. They are so over with the fans, how could the WWE NOT put them on TV constantly? Their characters match well with Cena's, putting them together seems logical enough. Sometimes black champions are champions who just happen to be black, not champions because they are black.

[Y 2 Jake]

I don't care what else you say, but what the fuck do you mean: "there just black so who cares?" I care. and if thats the case Ric Flair was shit. He was a decent wrestler at best. You shoul watch what you say because i see a lot of Michaels Hayes in you.

That's hilarious. Yeah they are just black people. In todays society different races are supposed to be equal. I'm no better than Mark Henry and he's no better than me. He really is just a black man. The same as I'm just a white man. Race shouldn't be important enough to point out.

You see a lot of Michale Hayes in me yet I didn't call Mark Henry a nigger. I called him a black man. Which is exactly what he is. In fact I called him just a black man, because like I said race shouldn't be an issue.

Those wrestlers should get titl;es if they deserve or will be great. They won't so why should they get belts?

[Darkshot77]

Quite the interesting subject, IMO Henry was the only one who benifitted. Henry hasent been a great wrestler and he is injury prone. They could ahve just as easy but the Big Show on ecw and made him a heel and noone would be the wiser.The wwe needed to apologize to Henry not the african american comunity. Period. Lest move on

Kofi is mad over and the aperfect person get the IC title out of Jerico's hands

Benjamin is conincidental. It is weird how he got no push and ened up US champ. The title could have gone to Kennedy but they wanted a heel, I just dont like the title picture. Who competed for the IC title on Raw. Benjamin, Kennedy, Hardy and Umaga. Look Familier. Same song and dance different show.

[FTS]

I just want to add that history should be ignored. The WWE is a northern US company that has international appeal. The reason that black title runs haven't been noted throughout the history of the business is that most promotions, historically, have been based in the south. And, despite my patriotism for down here, we, as a whole, haven't exactly been the most progressive area of the country as far as race relations go.

[Ken Starrcade]

I don't think belts have much to do with anything really. You have to be more "over" (and you'll be better paid) to be the fourth guy in the main event scene than to be the Intercontinental champ. Maybe the WWE is giving some meaningless baubles out for PR reasons (and maybe the Obama factor comes into this) but really midcard belts mean nothing.

The real question is why aren't there more top black wrestlers. I think a part of it is the way black wrestlers are booked and positioned - almost always they are specifically "black." And (Nation of Domination angles aside) that will never play in the main event. For years Booker T was positioned like that, first in the Harlem Heat and then solo, as a specifically black wrestler. But eventually they stopped that, and he was positioned as a wrestler who just happened to be black. So instead of being that midcard guy with the funky dance moves he could be taken seriously, and he's been able to show what he can really do.

I think it's lazy writing basically that causes a glass ceiling for a lot of guys. A good current example would be Consequences Creed in TNA, running around with a huge 'fro and stupid clothes, doing a Mohammed Ali thing. I'm not saying the gimmick is necessarily a bad one, but it's obvious, it's specifically black, and he will never get past mid-card with it.

[The Earl]

I just want to add that history should be ignored. The WWE is a northern US company that has international appeal. The reason that black title runs haven't been noted throughout the history of the business is that most promotions, historically, have been based in the south. And, despite my patriotism for down here, we, as a whole, haven't exactly been the most progressive area of the country as far as race relations go.

Well, I have to take issue with that. I am white and from Louisiana. I grew up on Mid South wrestling. Who were the two biggest stars down here at that time? Ernie Ladd and the Junkyard Dog. Both held numerous tag titles as well as the North American title, which was one of the most prestigous regional titles back then.

[BrooklynBuc]

Those wrestlers should get titl;es if they deserve or will be great. They won't so why should they get belts?[/QUOTE]

Well, it's good to know you think NONE of the Black wrestlers will be great. I've had major problems the way you've been wording these statements, but it's not like I have the power to do anything about it, but I will say something. Maybe you think you're not offending any African-Americans, but you are. You keep saying things like, "the races should be equal" as if racism doesn't exist. Yeah, in society, the races are supposed to be equal, but any person who isn't ignorant knows it doesn't. Look at us now; discussing the credibility of these Black athletes because some racist asshole called Mark Henry the N-bomb. How dare this topic even come up! As a wrestling fan who is Black and who is a major fan of The Undertaker, I always wished that there were more African-American athletes so I didn't feel like I was watching a whites-only fraternity. Booker T was about the ONLY reason I ever watched WCW because he was the only Black wrestler not jobbing to every other wrestler on the card. When he finally got pushed it felt great to see an athlete of a different skin color being pushed. Until then, all Blacks in the business when I started watching were worthless squash fodder (Ice Train, Hardbody Harrison, Bobby Walker, Norman Smiley), bodyguards\butlers (Virgil, Mr. Hughes), mindless dumbasses who could barely talk (Zeus, Stevie Ray), stereotypes (Slick, Kamala, Kama\The Godfather) or charismatic and lovable losers (Junkyard Dog, Koko B. Ware). Booker T was a credible contender to every title in WCW and eventually the WWE. Soon, the Nation formed with Faarooq, Ahmed Johnson became the 1st IC champ, and Black men were actually considered credible threats instead of losers. Still, it was all in just one neat package, and when the stable broke up, they started going back into obscurity, and not mattering anymore. Only The Rock was able to stand out and join the big-time, yet he was still considered more Samoan than Black, and it was just him.

Now, finally, in a time where we have several credible contenders to break the race barrier, and where the guys who have the belts actually make sense, leave it to a few people to think, "Oh, well, the WWE is making up for Michael Hayes being a racist by just handing out titles to the nearest Black guy." Thanks for spitting on the hard work of Kofi Kingston, Shelton Benjamin, and Mark Henry. Thanks for saying that drug addicts like Jeff Hardy, John Morrsion, Mr. Kennedy and Umaga deserve yet more titles they've already held before even though they don't need them right now. Thanks for letting us know racism still exists no matter how much you want to deny it or be ignorant to it.

Sorry for sounding angry, but it's shit like this that make me want to stop watching wrestling and scream at the top of my lungs.

[Y 2 Jake]

Well, it's good to know you think NONE of the Black wrestlers will be great.


I don't think any of the current champions are great. In fact all of them such. And it's obvious they're getting pushes based off their race. They shouldn't push Henry because he's black, they should push him because he's the best for the role. Which he isn't.

Is it a coincidence that we suddenly have an influx of black champions? Maybe but if you truly think that then maybe you're a little naive.

I'm not entirely sure where you got that ''Racism doesn't excist'' quate from. It does excist, I didn't say any different. What I said that black & white people are supposed to be equal, so don't I have a right to criticize WWE's choice of black champions? I sure as hell criticize the white ones.

[Dark Blaze]

I'm black, and with the sudden influx of black champions and pushes, I find myself tending to agree that WWE is trying to preserve their image after the Michael Hayes racist comments, in the new champions, there is only one I think that could actually deserve the title that he won that is Kofi Kingston, simply because he was on a hot push(ok, it was ECW) but as hot as possible anyway, and the IC title simply was NOT needed by Jericho, who only won it so Hardy could serve his suspension. Kofi needs the IC title in order to help elevate himself from the midcard, a couple months as champion with some solid feuds and he could be in the upper midcard- ME eventually.

Shelton Benjamin rocks in-ring, but we all know his limited (very) mic- skills, and though I would normally celebrate him winning a title and seem significant once more, it came off too abruptly with no build, barely any heat on the feud, which makes me believe even more that he was awarded the title just to make things seem better.

Now Mark Henry, the object of those comments, receives a midcard title after years of not winning a major singles championship and being almost irrelevant. I wonder why.How coincidental.

On the subject of Cryme tyme, though it may have been due to the comments, I think that rehiring them is doing nothing but help the company, they're a fairly popular act, charismatic, now only if we'd get to see whether or not they have much in-ring talent. They're also involved in a small stable with one of the biggest draws in Cena, being pushed to the moon so to say.

Does winning those titles under those circumstances devalue the prestige of the title? Hell yeah. In some of those cases (Mark Henry for one), I doubt they'd even be near the title if those comments weren't made.

Would be an awesome time to be in the WWE though.

[The Earl]

If Mark Henry was a 150 pound cruiserweight, than nobody would have a problem with the title. He's been in the copmpany for 12 years. Not counting the European title, which was awarded to him in the first place and he lost it on his first title defence, this is the first time Henry has held any gold. Not even a tag title. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, he was due for a title run?

The title change I have a problem with is Matt Hardy dropping to Benjamin, after a year long fued with MVP just to get the title. Not saying Benjamin doesnt deserve it, but that title change seems more of a kneejerk reaction than Henry's.

[Davi323]

It makes sense when you consider that the US Title is a Smackdown belt, and Matt Hardy is on the ECW roster. They are going to have Matt Hardy feud with Mark Henry for the ECW title, so Hardy keeping the US title around his waist isn't necessary. Given the lack of midlevel talent on Smackdown (it seems you are either main event, or jobber, with little inbetween) Shelton Benjamin was a logical choice for Hardy to drop the belt to.

[Y 2 Jake]

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, he was due for a title run?



Err no. Does Hardcore Holly deserve an ECW title run because he's been with the WWE for years. Course not. He's terrible and there would be outrage if he got that belt. The only think Henry has going for him is his size. And even that wasn't important until Hayes got a little tipsy.

If they want to put titles on ethnic champions then maybe they should put them on wrestlers who fans will embrace and who will actually go good with them.

[The Earl]

Hardcore Holly has held titles before. In 99, when the Hardcore title was a real title and not the joke that it later became, Holly held that title on numerous occiasions and was able to get over with the fans. Henry has NEVER hald a title. I'm not a big fan of the guy, but there have been worse champions in WWE who were a lot less deserving.

But I digress. I still maintain that Henry was NOT given the title due to race. Kane was being moved to Raw, so the title needed to stay in ECW. Plus, Kane is now in the main event picture on Raw. He was going to drop the title anyway.

[Fizzywink]

wwe said in an announcment they were going to try to appeal to the african american culture more often the day after tht announcment they rehired crime time and promised for more blacks to get decent pushes for example:mark henry,kofi kingston,crime time and others i dont feel like naming

[Y 2 Jake]

Hardcore Holly has held titles before. In 99, when the Hardcore title was a real title and not the joke that it later became, Holly held that title on numerous occiasions and was able to get over with the fans.

The hardcore title never meant shit. It was awared to Foley which is no way to start off a new title, it was then just passed around. One of The Godfathers Hoe's has held the title. It was never to be taken seriously.

Henry has NEVER hald a title.

Former European Champion. Which was a pointless title, yet it was still above him.

But I digress. I still maintain that Henry was NOT given the title due to race. Kane was being moved to Raw, so the title needed to stay in ECW. Plus, Kane is now in the main event picture on Raw. He was going to drop the title anyway.

It's very odd that he was nothing more than a glorified jobber, Hayes says something racist towards him and he then suddenly gets a push.

I'm not a big fan of the guy, but there have been worse champions in WWE who were a lot less deserving.

The Great Khali isn't white, and he was far more deserving that most.

[The Earl]

First off, in 1999, the Hardcore title was treated as a serious title. It was awarded to Foley as a joke in late 98...It was defended in one on one matches at every PPV. After Crash won it and they came up with the 24/7 crap, then it became a joke.

Also, Mark Henry never won the European Title. Jeff Jarrett defeated DLo for it with the help of Henry. Jeff was also IC champ at the time, so he gave the title to Henry. Henry lost the title back to Dlo in his first title "defence". It was a title reign only on paper.

Great Khali had a run with a Major title. The ECW title is a midcard title.

Your point is ...Henry does not deserve a midcard title despite 12 years of service. Yet, Kofi Kingston, a rookie, gets the IC belt. The IWC has NO problem with that one because Kingston is a cruiserweight. How the hell is he more deserving than Henry?

I maintain that KIngston's title is more of a kneejerk reaction than Henry. Of course, everyone is going to disagree..Mark Henry has been getting blasted by the IWC for years..

[Y 2 Jake]

First off, in 1999, the Hardcore title was treated as a serious title. It was awarded to Foley as a joke in late 98...It was defended in one on one matches at every PPV. After Crash won it and they came up with the 24/7 crap, then it became a joke.

You must have interpreted Al Snow & Hardcore Holly wrestling in a lake as serious then. Same with the Kennel From Hell match. None were serious, none were even supposed to be.

Also, Mark Henry never won the European Title. Jeff Jarrett defeated DLo for it with the help of Henry. Jeff was also IC champ at the time, so he gave the title to Henry. Henry lost the title back to Dlo in his first title "defence". It was a title reign only on paper.

A title reign on paper is still a title reign.

Great Khali had a run with a Major title. The ECW title is a midcard title.

ECW is a mid card title. But it's supposed to be the third most important title in the promotion.

Your point is ...Henry does not deserve a midcard title despite 12 years of service. Yet, Kofi Kingston, a rookie, gets the IC belt. The IWC has NO problem with that one because Kingston is a cruiserweight. How the hell is he more deserving than Henry?

Kingston isn't deserving at all. But it's not about being deserving, it about being the best option for the title. I don't see where the size difference comes into play. Being a cruiserweight doesn't mean you don't get criticism. The biggest name cruiserweight in the world get's more than most.

I maintain that KIngston's title is more of a kneejerk reaction than Henry. Of course, everyone is going to disagree..Mark Henry has been getting blasted by the IWC for years..

Rightfully so, he's shit.

[BrooklynBuc]

Alright then, King Jake, which of the Ethinic wrestlers IS deserving? It's not like there are a lot of them to go around. According to your logic:

Kofi Kingston is too young and not embraced by the fans. (although I think you're watching RAW on mute; the fans love this kid!)

Shelton Benjamin is bad on the mic and the title reign "came out of nowhere."

Mark Henry has been "shit for 12 years."

Cryme Tyme hasn't gotten the tag titles yet, so you can't bitch about them. They could have very easily given the tag team titles to Cryme Tyme instead of Dibiase and Rhodes. The only other Black wrestler left is MVP, who held the U.S. title longer than anyone on in the WWE. Did he deserve that in your eyes? Or does his lack of a good finisher make him shit, too? By the way, Ezekiel is a bodyguard who's hasn't wrestled a match yet.

As for other ethnicities, where's Carlito? Was he over? Did he deserve the U.S. title over Shelton Benjamin? The Intercontinental title over Kofi Kingston? The ECW title over Mark Henry? Do you honestly think that Carlito would be better than any of the current champions? Frankly, I think Carlito's act is a litle tired, plus he bitches an awful lot compared to Mark Henry, who could have sued the WWE for A LOT for racial discrimination. As a good wrestler as he is, I don't think he's better for the ECW title than Mark Henry right now, and we've already seen him as both U.S. champion and Intercontinental champion. Chavo Guerrero has already been ECW champion, and people hated him. Is he better than Mark Henry?

What about The Great Khali? Would you rather him be ECW champ? At least Mark Henry can speak English, albeit a thick Texas accent. Or maybe he'd be a great U.S. champion! Or maybe Jimmy Wang Yang? Maybe they'll stop jobbing him and give him the U.S. title. That's pretty much it for ethnic wrestlers that the fans embrace (actually that's all of them PERIOD unless Paul Burchill counts because he's BRITISH), unless Ricky Ortiz is ready to be ECW champion.

I think you're looking for any reason to rack on the champions. Apparently you can't be new and over, you can't be a veteran of 12 years, and you can't be a tremendous athlete with star potential. Or in your case, you can't be Black. Please stop. Just stop, King Jake. You're not just stating your opinions, you're digging yourself a bigger and more prejudiced hole.

(Oh, and for the record, Hardcore Holly is also a multiple-time WWF Tag Team Champion. The Hardcore title had different moments, because The Undertaker, Tommy Dreamer, Bradshaw, Jeff Hardy, and Rob Van Dam made the Hardcore title a serious title during their reigns. Even the IC title had its "joke" period with Road Dogg, The Godfather, Goldust, and Val Venis)

I'll tell you what, you tell me who you feel are more deserving champions. Please. You like giving your opinions, so give it to us. Which wrestlers are better right now for Intercontinental, U.S., and ECW titles? Just give three other wrestlers for each belt. Maybe I'll give you more credit if I hear better reasons than, "they're not deserving because I say so."

[simplejt1985]

First off I want to say that I'm 23 years old and I've been a fan of wrestling since the mid 80s. I'm also a black man myself. I never looked at professional wrestling in a black and white standpoint. I look at wrestling as who touches me the most.

Mark Henry - Not really the greatest wrestler you can find. But he has worked hard at what he possesses. But to be honest, I really have no problem with Mark Henry being the ECW champion. You have to look at it like this. ECW is the perfect champion for ECW at the current moment. He squashes opponents like Tommy Dreamer. But he's such a huge size and hard to beat that when he eventually loses it will make whoever beats him look like a huge monster face. And the longer he holds onto the title the bigger the moment will be when he loses the title. Now this could be good for Matt Hardy if he would somehow overcome the big monster. So Mark Henry makes a good champion. Does the racist remark made by Hayes have a lot to do with it? Maybe...at the same time, it seems fitting for Henry to be the champion on the third highest show.

Kofi Kingston - Perfect timing for this guy. It also brings something fresh for Raw, especially that he beat Y2J for the title, who is one of the biggest heels in the company. Y2J is working on being the biggest heel on Raw so having Kingston beat him gives Kingston somewhat a name. And now that he's successfully defending his IC title on a few occasions is making him look like a legitimate superstar. He has a lot of energy and he keeps the crowd into his matches. He fits the good champion at this time. Plus, him being black does give Raw fresh life, brings more black viewers and it also shows that Raw is really opening up to newcomers. Kofi has great potential and even though he is black, he is very athletic and has great potential. So why not give this guy a chance?

Sheldon Benjamin - I love this man...no homo. And he is currently one of the three best wrestlers in WWE, behind Edge and...actually, I put him second in WWE. Sheldon is amazing in the ring and when giving the spotlight he's going to run with it. Think about the first Money in the Bank match at Wrestlemania. Sheldon didn't have the greatest gimmick in the world but by the end of the match, he had the whole audience at the biggest show of the year chanting, "SHELDON! SHELDON! SHELDON!" With crowd thats dominated by white audience. But it wasn't a color to his praise, it was a chant for someone the people knew has TREMENDOUS potential to be something as big as WWE champ someday. He's fun to watch and now that he is the US champ, he will give that belt some more credibility. I think Sheldon Benjamin vs. Mr. Kennedy will be a great match for the Summerslam card. Sheldon is going to go as far as he takes himself.

M.V.P. - Has the potential to be the WWE champ in the next two years or so. He's not ready just yet. Give him more time on the mic with "M.V.P.'s Lounge" work on his mic skills, give him a long fued with Jeff Hardy to establish both stars. Let this fued last till the end of the year. This will elevate both stars. M.V.P. came a long ways from his 9 1/2 year prison sentence to being a multiple time champ. His charisma is where it needs to be to be the WWE champ and bring more of a new life to Raw. He doesn't remind me of The Rock but he reminds me of someone who can be his own character, which he already is. Let's see how far he takes his character.

Cryme Tyme - My favorite tag team currently in professional wrestling. I didn't know that by this time, even after being fired that they would come back and be so over with the fans. Cryme Tyme really made me love them after that segment that had with DX two years ago. That was one of the best segments I've ever seen in the 2000s. DX and Cryme Tyme really fed off each other. Then, I knew they were big at that time because the scene started off with DX and ended with Cryme Tyme. Then, their Mother's Day segment was a classic one too. Then, not to take away from their skills. They know how to get the crowd into the match. And now they're with Cena...CTC is really about to become household names in people's WWE conversation...shit they already are. I don't think they should win the titles just yet. Give it a few more months and have the crowd wait for that moment where they finally get over that hump. I can see a Cryme Tyme vs. Simply Priceless fued going to at least the end of this year.

Booker T - The greatest black wrestler in wrestling history. He was held back for so long. I don't think it had anything to do with him being black, I think it was more that he was a loyal WCW man. So that push Vince away for awhile. He's worked hard to get where he's at today, especially since he started as a tag team wrestler with Harlem Heat. There's not much needed to be said about him except he's respected by EVERY REAL wrestling fan around the world. ALL HAIL KING BOOKER!

Truthfully, there isn't a black man in the WWE that is deserving of a World Title push just yet. Let them keep building themselves up. I don't think Vince would have a problem with a black WWE or World Champion. I think he wants to make sure that whoever black wrestler wins one of those two main titles, that they're able to carry their respective show into higher grounds. A black champion will actually bring huge ratings, well not huge but better ones. But no one is ready yet. The closest to being ready is surprisingly Sheldon Benjamin. Who by the end of his career will be the greatest black wrestler of all-time.

And shoutout to the man who help paved black wrestlers.......DAMN!

[Skullz Crack'Em]

Personally, I think that if Michael "Racist" Hayes didn't make the comments he did, than Mark Henry and Shelton Benjamin wouldn't be holding gold(or silver) at the moment, but I do think that Kofi was given the IC title because WWE truly believes he has a bright future, and he would have won the title regardless of Hayes' comments. The real question is: Is this in good taste? If you look at it one way, you would think that this makes the WWE appear even more racist because their mentality may be: "Okay, this wrestler is black, give him a belt right now", which seems like they had to be forced to do something like give a belt to a few black wrestlers. If you look at it the other way, it seems like WWE is doing the right thing by acknowledging their African-American audience and pushing stars that may interest them to watch WWE programming more often.

In my opinion(what? He didn't use IMO!), the best thing to come out of this is Shelton Benjamin winning the U.S. title, the WWE may have been forced to give him the title, but Shelton has got a chance to prove that he can be more than just a Jobber/Midcarder. The WWE has handed him the ball, and he should run with it, he is an hell of an athlete that can put on excellent matches, and this may be his last opportunity to prove he got what it takes before the WWE shuts the lights out on him for good.

[Y 2 Jake]

Alright then, King Jake, which of the Ethinic wrestlers IS deserving? It's not like there are a lot of them to go around. According to your logic:

In WWE or in WWE & TNA? In WWE you really don't have many options. But there is Umaga, MVP & Rey Mysterio. Those are the only wrestlers currently who are a different race to myself that I think are worthy of say the ECW title.

Kofi Kingston is too young and not embraced by the fans. (although I think you're watching RAW on mute; the fans love this kid!)

I didn't say the fans didn't like him. He get's a good reaction. I said there were better options for the title.

Shelton Benjamin is bad on the mic and the title reign "came out of nowhere."

Well yeah, times 2. He's poor on the mic and his push did come from nowhere. What exactly was he doing or who was he feuding with before he won that title? Having matches with kofi Kingston isn't exactly feuding.

Mark Henry has been "shit for 12 years."

Well he's probably been shit for a lot longer than that. I hear he's awful at making spaghetti bolognese. But as a wrestler who can adjust it to ''shit for 13 years'' if we include training. Or we can eliminate a couple of years if you wish. He's been injured that much his 12 year career ammounts to 6 in injury free time.

Cryme Tyme hasn't gotten the tag titles yet, so you can't bitch about them.

I like the fact that they're pushing Cryme Tyme with Cena.

They could have very easily given the tag team titles to Cryme Tyme instead of Dibiase and Rhodes.

Easily. What's your point? Rhodes & Dibiase are better for the titles. They can wrestle, which Cryme Tyme can't. The previous champs were faces so it's nice to change on occasion. And they aren't comedy wrestlers.

The only other Black wrestler left is MVP, who held the U.S. title longer than anyone on in the WWE. Did he deserve that in your eyes?

Like everyone I didn't think MVP was worthy to face Benoit & Mania 23. But he converted me towards the end. His reign came to an anticlimatic end though. But out of all the black wrestlers in WWE I think he'll be something special.

Or does his lack of a good finisher make him shit, too?

That kick to the face is one of the most logical moves in wrestling. Shame Orton perfected it.

I don't think Mark Henry has a shit finisher either. He's a fat ass, who do you think I expect him to do?

By the way, Ezekiel is a bodyguard who's hasn't wrestled a match yet.

I know. I judge his ability when I've seen him wrestle. If he's poor I'll say so. Irrespective of if he's black or not. Because I'm aware that being a poor wrestler isn't to do with race. It's do do with ability.

As for other ethnicities, where's Carlito?

In the dog house?

Was he over?

He was. Don't ask me why.

Did he deserve the U.S. title over Shelton Benjamin?

Well he was on TV more than him in the months leading up to Sheltons title win. So I'll say yes if WWE insisted on having an ethnic wrestler. But I would have chose Kennedy myself.

The Intercontinental title over Kofi Kingston?

Different brands but yes, easily.

The ECW title over Mark Henry?

No. That title should have gone from Kane to Matt Hardy. Matt is going to be the main star of the brand, so it would help him more if he defeated a bigger more credible champion, that be Kane. It would have also been the perfect way to start Kane's heel turn.

Do you honestly think that Carlito would be better than any of the current champions?

I think that the titles should go to the wrestler that will do the most with the title. So no to Carlito.

Frankly, I think Carlito's act is a litle tired, plus he bitches an awful lot compared to Mark Henry, who could have sued the WWE for A LOT for racial discrimination.

He could have. But WWE but a belt on him presumably so he kept his mouth shut.

As a good wrestler as he is, I don't think he's better for the ECW title than Mark Henry right now, and we've already seen him as both U.S. champion and Intercontinental champion.

Certainly not. Henry is a better option than Carlito. But Matt Hardy or Kane were a better option than Henry.

Chavo Guerrero has already been ECW champion, and people hated him.

He's a heel, surley the idea.

Is he better than Mark Henry?

Nope. Terrible champion.

What about The Great Khali? Would you rather him be ECW champ?

Yes. Because Khali is over &was getting a slight push, as opposed to Henry's non-push.

At least Mark Henry can speak English, albeit a thick Texas accent.

Henry has now got a manager even though both of them speak English. At least WWE have the confidence in Khali to let him speak when they want him to make a point.

Why exactly did WWE brink back Tony Atlas anyway? There's currently a lot of black wrestlers & personalities getting pushes as of late. Maybe it's all down to the Hayes racial incident. What do you think? It's not like Atlas is a great talker, or even that much of a legend.

Or maybe he'd be a great U.S. champion!

Henry would make a great US Champion.

Or maybe Jimmy Wang Yang? Maybe they'll stop jobbing him and give him the U.S. title.

Now come on, the kids don't like him that much.

That's pretty much it for ethnic wrestlers that the fans embrace (actually that's all of them PERIOD unless Paul Burchill counts because he's BRITISH),

Birchill is white, silly. But there might be some prejudice because he's English.

unless Ricky Ortiz is ready to be ECW champion.

He's not, but maybe he's another example of WWE pushing somebody so they don't look racist.

I think you're looking for any reason to rack on the champions.

Surley there are champions that you currently think aren't worthy?

Apparently you can't be new and over,

You can. But can you honestly say that Kingston was the best option as an IC Champ?

you can't be a veteran of 12 years,

If he hasn't got it (it being wrestling) in his previous 12 years then he isn't going to get it now.

and you can't be a tremendous athlete with star potential.

Shelton has start potential. But potential isn't nothing if you don't use it.

Or in your case, you can't be Black.

I'd be more than happy with MVP as a world champion, Henry as a mid card champion and I couldn't care less if Cryme Tyme become tag champions.

Please stop. Just stop, King Jake. You're not just stating your opinions, you're digging yourself a bigger and more prejudiced hole.

Not in the slightest. You've taken offence because I've said that WWE's current black champions don't deserve titles, and because they've only been given them for an obvious reason. Which I believe.

This thread is about black champions. So what exactly do you want me to say in this thread? I think that each is great because they're black and I couldn't possibly say otherwise, in fear of getting called racist.

I suggest you try to find a thread where I mock all the other white champions. There are plenty.


I'll tell you what, you tell me who you feel are more deserving champions.

I'm not just on about deserving champions. I'm on about who is the best option for the title. Deserving really shouldn't come into play.

Please. You like giving your opinions,

It is the whole point of a forum after all.

so give it to us. Which wrestlers are better right now for Intercontinental, U.S., and ECW titles? Just give three other wrestlers for each belt. Maybe I'll give you more credit if I hear better reasons than, "they're not deserving because I say so."

I've given you an example of who I thought should be ECW champion.

But as of Night Of Champions Punk should have defeated Jericho. He needed building up before he cashed in his MITB title shot. But that didn't happen as he won the WHC the next night. So what I would have done is have a battle royal and have Cade win. He's getting more of a push then Kingston anyway, and the title would elevate him more.

Kennedy needs a mid card title on Smackdown to build him up from what have been a shitty 18 months for him. I don't care if Shelton is champion. But WWE need to push him hard, and continue the push once he loses the title.

[leby_uk]

I hope people aint taking to seriously i mean common
can you really see the biggest wrestling organisation in the world
purposely leaving black mixed race wrestlers out of the title runnings on purpose?

As i remember at the hall of fame i think it was The Rocks dad said something along the lines if your good enough whther your mixed race or black or from any ethnic background you'll make it in the business? something along them lines.

Jimmy fly snuka had a successful carear, Great Khali as been wwe champion, Umaga as had a great role in the wwe along with rikishi and all the other samoans, the rock (awsome carear) even DLO brown as had his moments, in some ways this wrestler as never been over looked Big Daddy V,
Bobby Lashley became champion in his time. Tajiri and tak minichoku was also used well when they wrestled in wwe

But no offence intended what black superstars have the potential to be world champions?
i dont follow alot of the indy circuits so it would be good to hear

[klunderbunker]

Right now, at least to me, this sudden rise of African American wrestlers is due to Michael Hayes, but not entirely. When Henry won the ECW title, it sort of fit due to him being dominant on ECW far before the Hayes incident came up. He's been pushed for a good many years in WWE as a "major force", but has never broken through. Vince has always wanted to push him but never all the way. The Hayes incident seemed to just be the final push over the edge that Henry needed to get the title. As for everyone else, it could be argued either way. Kofi is a young guy who's star is on the rise and the IC belt is supposed to be the midcard title. Shelton has had midcard title reigns before and had been getting a push for a good while. Cryme Tyme had been hired back before Hayes was suspended and as weak as the tag division is and due to their populatiry, how could they not go to the top of the division? It certainly seems odd that all this is happening at once, but look around. The WWE is changing. Until last night, the oldest Raw champion was 29 years old. Hayes was probably responsible for some of what's going on, but I can't believe he's the sole reason.

[Esteban Ochocinco]

Of course the WWE is doing this right now to cover their asses. Michael Hayes left a "Black" eye on the business. A billion dollar company, and a person with a position of power, is making racially charged comments towards a man that has been successful outside of the WWE, Henry was an Olympic competitor, it doesn't look very good for business.

IC said it best, it reeks of the old WCW with Sonny Ono claiming that the company was racist, and all of a sudden Booker T becomes one of the most decorated stars in the history of that company.

But it's nothing new. The WWE plays towards demographics. The WWE wanted more Latino viewers, so Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio receive title shots and title reigns. Now the WWE feels like they need the African American viewer back, so they put titles on those guys. It's nothing new. There's a reason Bruno Sammartino held the title as long as it did. 1. It was reflective of the times and people didn't mind dynasties, or were just use to it. Look at the 60's and look at the Dynasties in sports at the time. 2. Bruno looked like the people he was meant to entertain in the northeast, most noticably in New York with a heavy Italian-American market.

The WWE evolves with it's culture. Why was Hogan so successful in the 80's, because guys like Arnold and Faringo knocked the door down on huge body builder men being the new american Hero. GI Joe and Hogan were all by-products of the culture.

The wwe is very fluid. The culture changes, their demographic changes. Steve Austin was a champion because the cute little kids that watched in the 80s were now becoming rebellious teenage punks. This is no different. If the WWE feels there is more money to be made with African Americans included to, then they will continue to push African Americans.

I would say that a much bigger issue would be, why after nearly 50 years of either the WWWF/WWF/WWE has there never been a pure blooded African American as the holder of the WWE Championship? That's a problem. (Booker T was World Champion, Rock was half Samoan/African-American).

[Y 2 Jake]

Wow. King Jake is racist..

Now come on, this is just silly. I actually don't care if people call me racist. I'm not. It's the same as being called gay as school. It's fine because I'm not. But it is really frustrating being called a racist.

Anyway I'll give people a rough guide as to how It's ok to talk about not liking a black person and not being racist. Short & in Layman's terms.

- Just because somebody is of an opposite race to you, doesn't mean you can't criticise them. In a thread about black champions, talking about champions I don't like or think deserve titles. I'm hardly going to say how great they are am I?

- Why would I talk about how much I like Booker T for example when he's currently holding no gold, nor in WWE?

- Why can't I wish JTG would choke on his vomit in his sleep? I feel the same towards Triple H. Even more so toward him even.

- If you are a black man, can you not dislike Chris Jericho? Of course you can. Your not a racist for not being a fan of his.

Any questions feel free to ask.

[Crimson Bonez]

I think the reason why people are saying your racist, it's because of the way that you word what you say. And it seems like it's the new people that take it as you being a racist, those that don't know you well, or how you post. "They're just Black, who cares" I'll admit, when I 1st read that, it had me thinking. But after reading some of your other post, I felt foolish. Im not saying I know you cause I don't, I just know more about you after reading some of the things you've said. You have a asian wife I believe. A mixed daughter. You don't believe in hitting kids, and you just say NO to yours. You had an altercation at school where some1 (a teacher I think) said your daughter was weird looking. You don't like JTG (and want him smothered). You don't think none of the black wreslters diserve titles, and Umaga I believe is one of you favorite WWE wreslters. Oh yea and I got 2 infractions from you. (Thanks by the way for that, after the suspension, I got more serious with posting and know all the rules now) But pretty much, if they don't know you or know of you and the way you post, you come off as being a racist with what you say, or disriminative toward black people.

Now back to the thread before I get banned agin, I think that really the only 1 that got a title from the Hayes incident was Henry. All the others i think diserved it. Who was going to take the title off of Y2J. Burchill? No a heel vs heel at a ppv I don't think would work. I heard Lance Cade. Y2J's buddy, really? How would that work out. "We are buddy's, were boys, I want your title?" I don't think would work unless Y2J had both the world title and IC title. Like what HBK and Triple H did back in the 90's. But HBK held both titles so losing 1 would'nt have mattered. So a heel taking it off of him would'nt work. So what face would there be. Hmm... oh I know, how about Kingston. Fresh face for the title, and follow Raw's "Pushing new talent" thing they had going.

The US Title. What Heel, could have taken that off of Hardy. We have Benjamin, Umaga, Kozlof, MVP. MVP had that ting going on with Vicki about him not liking his position (which seemed to have ben droped and never brought up agin.) Kozlof, winning a title in his first, yet short, major fued I think would have ben dumb. Umaga would have just squashed him. Benjamin, he's the Gold standard, yet hasn't held singles gold in 2 years. Gold would have made his gimmic work better, and be more believable. And with Benjamin holding the gold, I think that it would lead to better fueds for the gold and bringing the prestiege back up rather than Umaga holding it right now.

Im not even going to go into Henry. But then you have the rise of all these other black wreslters/faces. And I don't think that they are being brought up cause of the hayes incident, Vince did say he wanted to bring in more African Americans to hi show so hes bringing in more. So Henry is the result of the Hayes incident but the rest, just to bring in more African veiwers.

[Y 2 Jake]

I think the reason why people are saying your racist, it's because of the way that you word what you say. And it seems like it's the new people that take it as you being a racist, those that don't know you well, or how you post. "They're just Black, who cares" I'll admit, when I 1st read that, it had me thinking. But after reading some of your other post, I felt foolish. Im not saying I know you cause I don't, I just know more about you after reading some of the things you've said. You have a asian wife I believe. A mixed daughter. You don't believe in hitting kids, and you just say NO to yours. You had an altercation at school where some1 (a teacher I think) said your daughter was weird looking. You don't like JTG (and want him smothered). You don't think none of the black wreslters diserve titles, and Umaga I believe is one of you favorite WWE wreslters. Oh yea and I got 2 infractions from you. (Thanks by the way for that, after the suspension, I got more serious with posting and know all the rules now) But pretty much, if they don't know you or know of you and the way you post, you come off as being a racist with what you say, or disriminative toward black people.

Very true.

Who was going to take the title off of Y2J. Burchill? No a heel vs heel at a ppv I don't think would work. I heard Lance Cade. Y2J's buddy, really? How would that work out. "We are buddy's, were boys, I want your title?" I don't think would work unless Y2J had both the world title and IC title. Like what HBK and Triple H did back in the 90's. But HBK held both titles so losing 1 would'nt have mattered. So a heel taking it off of him would'nt work. So what face would there be. Hmm... oh I know, how about Kingston. Fresh face for the title, and follow Raw's "Pushing new talent" thing they had going.

Kingston really was the only face choice. Other than Punk or Mysterio. But as the match at Night Of Champiosn hadn't been announced a Battle Royal could have happened. You have Jericho eliminated by everyone early so he saves face. You then have Kingston & Cade as the last two people. This would make Kingston look like a player, and after a couple of months he could become champion, and you have Cade win. Out of the two Cade is the one they truly want to make into a main event wrestler. So having him with the title would benefit him more.

Although you could argue that he's aligned with Jericho and is involved with HBK so he doesn't need the belt.

The US Title. What Heel, could have taken that off of Hardy. We have Benjamin, Umaga, Kozlof, MVP. MVP had that ting going on with Vicki about him not liking his position (which seemed to have ben droped and never brought up agin.) Kozlof, winning a title in his first, yet short, major fued I think would have ben dumb. Umaga would have just squashed him. Benjamin, he's the Gold standard, yet hasn't held singles gold in 2 years. Gold would have made his gimmic work better, and be more believable. And with Benjamin holding the gold, I think that it would lead to better fueds for the gold and bringing the prestiege back up rather than Umaga holding it right now.

When it comes to heel champions the only objection I have with Shelton is that he was doing fuck all for a good year before he won the title. And once he loses they'll probably go back to not doing anything with him again. I still feel that Kennedy needs a title at this point. Which one do you expect to become a main event wrestler first? Kennedy who's been on the cusp since he made his debut, or Shelton who's push has stalled every time he's started to gain momentum?

Im not even going to go into Henry. But then you have the rise of all these other black wreslters/faces. And I don't think that they are being brought up cause of the hayes incident, Vince did say he wanted to bring in more African Americans to hi show so hes bringing in more. So Henry is the result of the Hayes incident but the rest, just to bring in more African veiwers.


Surley it shouldn't matter. They should bring in the most talented wrestlers available. Black or white. I don't think there being a majority of white wrestlers should be a problem for black people. Unless they're racist.

[I Am Phenom]

To say that the WWE is pushing black talent because of comments made by Michael Hayes is complete and utter crap. The black talent in WWE that is getting over now completely and utterly deserve it and to say that it is all a technicality would be complete and utter disrespect to those superstars.

Shelton Benjamin - To quote J.R. "Quit possibly the most talented pure athelete in the entire WWE." He isn't just saying this because it's nice, he is right. There is no one in the WWE right now that can put on the show that Shelton Benjamin can in the ring. If you are a true wrestling fan, then you find everyone of his matches to be very entertaining. He completely deserves his recognition and if not for his talent, then, maybe because of this. The WWE completely ruined his career on Raw by brining in his Momma. I think that if it wasn't for that poor choice, Shelton would have been WWE champion some time ago. So if anything, this recent push should be WWE saying, "I'm sorry for ruining you earlier, we won't do it this time!"

Kofi Kingston - A very talented new comer and I think that his recent success is nothing more than the WWE being seriously lacking in mid card talent. I do, however, feel that he wasn't quit ready for the I C belt and should've had to pay more dues, but what better way to build a new star than to give him the championship that the best in ring talent of all time held. Kofi is on his way and I think that if WWE does this one right and doesn't bring in his Momma, he will be great.

Mark Henry - He is just supposed to beat up no names and occasionally attack some big name only to fail in the end. He isn't talented, niether on the mic or in the ring and I don't think that he deserves the ECW Title. I think that this is nothing more than WWE seriously trying anything to get ECW over with a larger crowd.

Cryme Tyme - I don't see them winning any tag titles any time soon on any show ever. They are entertaining, but not serious wrestlers. Sorry Cryme Tyme, you need a different persona maybe. Their recent push is just for taking up some extra air time for Raw.

I have completely explained every reason for the recent push on black talent in the WWE. Nothing to do with any comments.

[Dead Kennedy]

I don't think their skin colour had much say in it. Sure, the whole Mark Henry/P.S. Hayes deal might have affected things, but all in all, I think you're just seeing what you want to see.

Mark Henry deserved some form of reward for staying with the company so long, so I wasn't surprised to see him win some gold this year. They've always tried to push him as a dominant big guy type, but he's never been as over as he was as "Sexual Chocolate" Mark Henry. I'm not a particularly big fan of his mat "skills", but he can cut a decent heel promo. He's done a better job than Kane as ECW Champion, I'll give him that.

As soon as I saw Shelton being drafted to SmackDown after having almost just been drafted to ECW, I knew there had to be something in it. He has little to no charisma or mic skills, but as far as mat skills go, he's one of WWE's best. He deserves his run with the US title, and I quite enjoy it so far - he's had great matches with Kennedy and Jeff.

Cryme Tyme...we all know they're mostly entertaining. They CAN wrestle, but I've yet to see them wrestle a proper, long, balanced match-up since their return. I think, in time, they might win the Tag Team Championships, but for now, I hope DiBiase & Rhodes hold their titles for a LONG time. They deserve that, after having to go through that crap with Cena and Batista.

I don't think race was a huge factor at all. If it is, who cares though? Sure, it might not help to lessen the difference between races, but hey. Err, something. Man, I suck at these discussion thingies...

[DeadmanFan]

Well, this is certainly a sensitive subject. Here's my take on the situation:

Mark Henry: Absolute crap in the ring. Boring as hell to watch and has probably no connection with the fans. So I'm going to say that his push has been because of the comments Hayes made towards him. I'll probably get some heat for this, and its true that he has been around for quite a while, but still, that is my take.

Shelton Benjamin: Great wrestler and performer and is absolutely deserving of his push with the US title. In my opinion he should have won MITB by now. So I believe this is because of his talent in the ring.

Kofi Kingston: He has been impressive. And with the momentum he was getting, I think he was the right choice for Jericho to drop the IC title to entering his feud with HBK.

Cryme Tyme: I haven't paid a lot of attention to these guys. It is true that Raw needs some more tag teams. So, the verdict is still out on this one for me.

[Syxx-Pac]

Here is what I think about the following.

Mark Henry: I think He deserved this championship reign. He has been with the WWE so long, and was given only a European Championship reign. That is my only problemo. I have been a fan of this man since he came to WWE, and I'm glad he is carrying a championship belt with him.

Shelton Benjamin: Shelton is one of my favorite wrestlers. He is great in-ring, great on the mic, and basically should be in the main events. Shelton is great in the ring. So, I give him props. And he should've won MITB by now. I'm just saying.

Kofi Kingston: BOOP BOOP BOOP! This man is entertaining as hell. When you see him making his entrance in the same arena as you (when you go to a live WWE Event) its almost impossible to find a Kofi hater, yet its almost impossible to not clap and cheer. And its kinda hard to not do the Thunda Clap standing over your seat. believe me, I just had to. And everyone else was too.

Cryme Tyme: BROOKLYN BROOKLYN! This guys are great. They are great on the mic, and great in-ring. They should be Tag Champs by now.