Why can't WWE let a match end properly.

[Joaquim Akaem]

Just finished watching Raw and was really annoyed at the ending of the main event. It wasn't just a one off either, this is something that has been annoying me over a period of time now.
WWE seem to be having a problem letting matches end with pinfalls or submissions. Instead there has been a massive increase in the amount of matches ending in countouts and some dubious refereeing decisions.

Heres three examples as to what I'm on about.
1. Kofi Kingston vs Chris Jericho.
Decision; Jericho was disqualified for grabbing the tights in a pin attempt.
When was the last time anybody got DQ'd for that?! and in a title match no less!
I know that its a heelish tactic and technically it is said to be against the rules but the worst punishment I ever seen was the referee refusing to count, and probabally some shouting at the offending wrestler.
And I can see how it would be bad to let Jericho lose outright, but there are better ways to let Kofi retain. Surely.

2. Mark Hendry vs Tommy Dreamer
Decision; Match apparently thrown out for no reason.
What happened here? Atlas (who was not involved in the match) took out Delaney (who also was not involved in the match) then the ref called for the bell. I've ruled out the possibility of outside interference, the use of a foreign object and a countout, so what was the reason to end the match?
Hendry and Dreamer are now to have a PPV match, which I suppose explains the reluctance to have one clean beat the other, but still, thinks like this ruins a main event for me.

and finaly 3. last nights debacle. Cena and Cryme Time vs JBL DiBiase and Rhodes
Decision; Ref ends the match after JBL breaks up the STFU.
Now is it just me or do commentators usually commend teams that come in and make the save when one partner is in serious trouble. Not that this made much sense at all. What harm would it be to have young Rhodes simply tap out? Who would lose face then? Rhodes? for tapping out to the same move thats taken out Triple H, Shawn Michaels and countless others. JBL? for losing to Cena, he wasn't the one who got pinned or tapped out, and... oh wait, he did actially end up losing anyay. Cena and Cryme Tyme? for picking up the win, no, that can't be it. The only reason i can think of for not having that match end properly is if they decide they want to give Rhodes and DiBiase "undefeated" of "never tapped out" status.

Ok thats a long rant, I never meant to go on for that long, but does anyone else think that some of this is turning into a joke. Its like no match can ever end with a clear winner anymore, unless its on PPV and we have to pay for the privelage.

[TheOneBigWill]

Notice if you will, all three matches happened within the span of what, two weeks? Needless to say, since Mr. McMahon's "accident" regardless of when.

I, too, have had quite the issue with the officials outlandish calls on DQing a guy for A.) Hooking the tights. B.) Breaking up a submission/pinfall, when you're saving your Tag partner. C.) Just randomly tossing a match out, dispite the two individuals involved in an outside issue, having NOTHING to do with the match.

I think (or rather hope) that this will all show up to be the officials not having leadership, and being confused in exactly what to do, without Mr. McMahon being there. Actually, I think it would be funny as shit if the officials decided to turn outrageous as well.

Like for example, since Mr. McMahon isn't around to punish them, it turns out they've decided to take matters in their own hands and hand out punishment to those who've "wronged" them by costing them matches. (ie. heels, like Jericho, Henry, and J.B.L.) I mean, if one of the officials just randomly stops at 2, flips the heel off out of nowhere.. wouldn't it cause you to jump out of your seat and be all like "What the fuck just happened?!"

Now, if thats not going to be the case.. (and there is some pretty in-depth creative work there for it to happen, which almost means it won't) then yes, its completely stupid for the officials to be blowing matches left and right, with calls that barely tolerate any type of rule break. (guys used to blatantly hold the ropes to get an upper hand until the count of 5, not they get DQed if their randomly hooking a guys tights?! Stupid.)

[Joaquim Akaem]

Notice if you will, all three matches happened within the span of what, two weeks? Needless to say, since Mr. McMahon's "accident" regardless of when.

I suppose you might have a point, on the other hand, I think this type of thing has been happening over some time and those are just three of the most recent ones i remember.

I think (or rather hope) that this will all show up to be the officials not having leadership, and being confused in exactly what to do, without Mr. McMahon being there.

If that was the case then I think the announce team would have passed comment on the poor officiating as of late instead of just going with it like its normal.
When on most occasions whenever a ref makes a bad call because of something thats storyline related, Michael Cole and JR are usually the first ones to clearly point out the outragousness of whatever just happened.

Now, if thats not going to be the case.. (and there is some pretty in-depth creative work there for it to happen, which almost means it won't)

Sounds about right. I'd green rep that comment if it was worth anything.

I think WWE are just refusing to give us a good match for free anymore. But rather we buy the PPV, because theres just not anything good being given away on the weekly shows.

[TheOneBigWill]

I suppose you might have a point, on the other hand, I think this type of thing has been happening over some time and those are just three of the most recent ones i remember.

I agree that the officials have throughout the history of Wrestling made some pretty shady and at times outrageously bad calls. Even blatant calls, in which they'll act accordingly to one act, then just simply ignore it happening on the opponents side of things.

(example: While it wasn't W.W.E., in a recent episode of iMPACT! the official demanded one of the World X Cup wrestlers exit the ring, before he counted the shoulders of a guy down. However the finish of the match had both members of a team pinning a guy, and the official didn't even bother caring that they were both on him, let alone both in the ring. That was downright stupid to me)

Sometimes, its just hard being an official. To us, they just have to count to 3, 5 or 10. But to them, they have to be the mouth piece between the wrestlers, as well as listen to everyone in the backstage area telling them what to do next, and when to wrap things up.

So while the official could start off doing a great job, once he gets the "2 minutes" or however long it is, signal in his ear.. he suddenly ignores the rules, except for however the match is meant to end.

If that was the case then I think the announce team would have passed comment on the poor officiating as of late instead of just going with it like its normal.
When on most occasions whenever a ref makes a bad call because of something thats storyline related, Michael Cole and JR are usually the first ones to clearly point out the outragousness of whatever just happened.

I don't know. I mean Raw, ONLY Raw though, has been off the charts with chaos for the previous 3 weeks. And two of the three issues has happened on Raw.

The Mark Henry match being thrown out is at least slightly understandable. However the hook of the tights = DQ, and the saving your partner from tapping = DQ are both just absurdly stupid calls that I'm sure NEED to have some type of explanation.

Again, I'm hoping this will be revealed as a storyline, and not just very piss-poor officiating.

Sounds about right. I'd green rep that comment if it was worth anything.

I think WWE are just refusing to give us a good match for free anymore. But rather we buy the PPV, because theres just not anything good being given away on the weekly shows.

Rep is always worth something. My rep bar is maxxed out, but I always enjoy rep comments. You could only imagine all the ones I've received from Punk Bastards. lol

I also agree that the W.W.E. are merely unwilling to give us a really good match, or multiple good matches for free.

I've been watching older tapes of Smackdown and Raw, especially during the InVasion angle.. the Smackdown I watched had Kurt Angle & the Hardyz against Steve Austin & The Dudleyz.. and it had a good finish. It was even an elimination match. That show also had Jericho v. Bill DeMott, both W.W.E. & W.C.W. Tag Team titles changed hands, as well as Saturn against Raven. Now to some, that might not be impressive.. but it damn sure beats the Raw and Smackdown of today's world.. that include but aren't limited to 3 or more squash matches, 2 or more diva matches, and whatever Main Event (on paper) matches thrown in between, that most often get no contest finishes.

So yes.. I miss the "Good ol' days" but at the same time, especially last night, I completely enjoyed the chaos that Raw has now.. and I didn't care about thrown out matches, as long as they weren't thrown out because of bullshit/stupid calls. (ie. saving your tag partner)

[Tastycles]

I think (or rather hope) that this will all show up to be the officials not having leadership, and being confused in exactly what to do, without Mr. McMahon being there. Actually, I think it would be funny as shit if the officials decided to turn outrageous as well.


I think that this would be ok in moderation, otherwise it'd just be massively frustrating, but I don't think it'll happen at all. As you say, it'd take such a creative effort, that they wouldn't bother.

From a more practical point of view, the referees are not really hired based on their ability to convey a character and I think it'd make for a lot of dire referee promos explaining why they've turned on people. In the past, we've seen the referee strike and Earl Hebner fueding with HHH, and I don't think either storyline was particularly gripping or convincing, although the strike did give Unforgiven a bit of a quirk.

If they were going ot do this, they had the perfect opportunity to do it recently with the whole Edge and Charles Robinson saga on SmackDown!, but instead of anything happening, Robinson just came back last week with a passing mention from the commentators.

The amount of sloppy endings does seem to have increased recently, as have all of the strange equipment and security failures, and it probably is part of the bigger picture. To be honest though, I haven't left any of these matches feeling short changed.

In the three examples given, each has gone on to serve some greater purpose - in 1) Jericho could continue to feel more agreived. It also kept the title out of the Y2J HBK feud without making Jericho look weak. This feud really doesn't need the IC title to help it along. In 2) it set up the beginning of the alliance between Tony Atlas and Mark Henry, two of the greatest promo men the world has ever seen and in 3) It set up the final scenes of Raw, where we saw John Cena get crushed by a car. No doubt his superpowers mean that instead of being decapitated, he'll be unharmed and end up beating JBL.

On a more general point, I think it's interesting what they're doing, but I'm really thinking that this is going to go on for months, so these gestures seem too small. I can't see myself in a few months thinking "so this is why Jericho got disqualified months ago."

[BRandonkin]

Some matches end in DQ and countout to save face for both teams. JBL Cena and your tag champs you don't want to lose the by pin or submission because it kind of weakens them. Cryme Tyme is receving a big push right now so you don't want them to lose either.

Jericho and Kingston: You don't want Jericho to get pinned cleanly as it makes him look weaker, nor do you want your new I-C champ to lose either, so you let the refs make controversial calls.

Punk and kane; Kane is in the middle of a push, but your new champ can't lose going into a ppv. How can you hype a champ and #1 contender who lost to someone else. So it sold Punk resourcefulness to win by count out.

Batista won by a pin in a good match. Kingston beat Burchill. Phoenix over marella. Jericho over London. There are a lot of clean finishes but you have to look towards the storyline.

[HellBoundPower]

The problem I have with the finishes is that they ended for stupid reasons. Bogus calls, that could've easily been handled differently. For example:

In the Jericho match, he could've easily put him in the Walls of Jericho, have Kofi get to the ropes, and have Jericho not release the hold. Or, to make Kofi look a little less weak, Jericho could've hit him with a low blow.

In the Mark Henry match, they could've had Dreamer and Henry get involved in the scuffle and get a double count out. Throwing out the match because two people not involved in the match are fighting is just plain ignorant.

In the CTC vs. JBL, Rhodes, and Dibiase match, JBL could've hit Cena in the back of the head with a chair. Either that, or he could've illegally choked him until he was DQed. Saving your Tag Team Partner isn't something to get DQed over. He could've easily done either thing I suggested to get DQed.

All in all, I find these stupid finishes annoying, when there could be an easier way to end them that doesn't look so ridiculous and stupid.

[DeadmanInc.]

The Jericho/Kofi ending wasn't bad. Using the tights is illegal after all. Plus it works well in Jericho's current storyline with Michaels. Kofi almost got away with cheating but Jericho got caught. That's the whole reason for the Michaels/Jericho feud. Michaels gets cheered for doing wrong while Jericho gets booed for the same thing.

The 6-man tag match ending was really confusing. Since when has saving your partner resulted in a DQ? It would have made more sense if JBL used a chair or something. My guess is JBL forgot to bring in the chair :laugh:


Either way, controversial finishes aren't always bad. They can make both people look good. If a face loses this way, he doesn't look bad while the heel gets more heat for cheating. They help progress a storyline.

[SpiralHands]

I 100% agree with you the decisions on ending matches recently have been stupid infact I would go as far to say that this something you sually see within TNA and dont expect on WWE programming. I dont understand why WWE is ending them this way as they are cheating the fans out of a decent ending to a decent match. All I can hope is they pull themsleves back together and make the calls to end the match proper for once.

[cactusJack98]

What i ahte is the way they are "pushing" punk, count out against kane if you want him over strong as champion, beating kane would be a big scalp, or maybe they dont want him pushed too much?

[Danmen001]

Just finished watching Raw and was really annoyed at the ending of the main event. It wasn't just a one off either, this is something that has been annoying me over a period of time now.
WWE seem to be having a problem letting matches end with pinfalls or submissions. Instead there has been a massive increase in the amount of matches ending in countouts and some dubious refereeing decisions.

I couldn't agree with you more, some of the match endings don't even make any sense. I wish they could just end the match properly and if it must end in DQ let it be a chair, or low blow. Or even not breaking the 5 count.

Heres three examples as to what I'm on about.
1. Kofi Kingston vs Chris Jericho.
Decision; Jericho was disqualified for grabbing the tights in a pin attempt.
When was the last time anybody got DQ'd for that?! and in a title match no less!
I know that its a heelish tactic and technically it is said to be against the rules but the worst punishment I ever seen was the referee refusing to count, and probabally some shouting at the offending wrestler.
And I can see how it would be bad to let Jericho lose outright, but there are better ways to let Kofi retain. Surely.

Yes. This is a great example, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to end a match because the tights were held. I mean, it's not like holding the tights qualifies as some sort of harrassment.... Wait it's the WWE so that actually may be it. None the less it was a stupid ending.

2. Mark Hendry vs Tommy Dreamer
Decision; Match apparently thrown out for no reason.
What happened here? Atlas (who was not involved in the match) took out Delaney (who also was not involved in the match) then the ref called for the bell. I've ruled out the possibility of outside interference, the use of a foreign object and a countout, so what was the reason to end the match?
Hendry and Dreamer are now to have a PPV match, which I suppose explains the reluctance to have one clean beat the other, but still, thinks like this ruins a main event for me.

I saw this, and I for one believe that because Tony Atlas called the match he awarded Henry the win for no reason. Technically there was no finish, but he was the one annoucning and he is Henry's mouth piece so he can call it however he pleases.

and finaly 3. last nights debacle. Cena and Cryme Time vs JBL DiBiase and Rhodes
Decision; Ref ends the match after JBL breaks up the STFU.
Now is it just me or do commentators usually commend teams that come in and make the save when one partner is in serious trouble. Not that this made much sense at all. What harm would it be to have young Rhodes simply tap out? Who would lose face then? Rhodes? for tapping out to the same move thats taken out Triple H, Shawn Michaels and countless others. JBL? for losing to Cena, he wasn't the one who got pinned or tapped out, and... oh wait, he did actially end up losing anyay. Cena and Cryme Tyme? for picking up the win, no, that can't be it. The only reason i can think of for not having that match end properly is if they decide they want to give Rhodes and DiBiase "undefeated" of "never tapped out" status.

This was absolutely stupid beyond all belief. Every week someone breaks the count that way, every tag match something like that happens. There is no reason for that to happen. It was a stupid ending, it should have ended via DQ if it had too.

[chasingamy]

A week ago I would have agreed the reason for the recent, noticeable rise in throw-away matches (primarily on Raw) was WWE simply wanting to make us wait and milk us out of our hard earned dough for the Pay-Per-View. Following the Bash though, it's obvious that even PPV matches are not immune from lame finishes (the Punk-Batista WHC match with Kane's interference involved only Raw stars).

For the most part, I believe (or want to at least) the reason for so many countout and DQ finishes lately is related to the Raw civil unrest/lack of GM storyline. Wrestlers are making their own matches these days. Kane’s conflicted and has it out for both Tista and Punk. JBL insists he’s running the show and remains in the thick of things as he tries to get his torch back.

Storyline-wise, these cheap finishes are a way to prolong feuds without having either guy/team look weak. There’s also a degree of shock value with these questionable match endings. I’m inclined to believe the rather dubious and hasty referee calls are related to the general chaos that Raw has become as well. The officials are feeling increased stress and lack of support from management in trying to maintain control of the increasingly unruly superstars. Somewhat drawing upon Will’s idea of the refs taking sides, I wouldn't be surprised if JBL, DiBiase, and Rhodes paid off a couple refs for their advantage yet.

Over time, these types of finishes will become increasingly frustrating for the fans though and McMahon can’t afford to risk losing viewers. That’ll impact his bottomline. Order should be restored soon enough and Raw will become predictable again.

[mcflyboy]

I agree with chasingamy. I would think that having dissatisfying/lame endings to matches have increased lately for two main reasons: 1. to prevent those involved from losing momentum/looking weak, and 2. in order to show the need for a general manager. I don't think many folks would really care one way or the other if some random week a new GM was declared. However, by making the raw show full of chaos, it instills a desire in the viewer to see some semblance of order restored...in other words, it makes us want to see a GM declared.

[Darkshot77]

Im gonna have to go with the idea that bogus endings lead to story lines, though it could have been handled better, I felt jipped after watching the CM v. Batista match on the ppv and seeing that both ended in poor "run in" DQ's. But the silver lining to this cloud is a set up to a Batista v. Cena feud (which may or may not be a good thing in itself). While bogus they may be to set up for story they work

[Canadian Knight]

Who here could predict that JBL was going to do something like that? And having all these other matches not ending is so terrible. The only reason why all these matchs are being ended poorly is to mark how much raw is in "chaos". Plus these matchs ending like this is because it brings heat to the heels making our blood boil and we hate them more.