C.M. Punk Wins The WHC [Archive]

TheOzzman45

06-30-2008, 09:59 PM

I said it before right when the draft happened, and I'll be saying it again: Raw's main event SUCKS now.

With the exception of Jericho and HBK, the rest of the main event roster is a bore to me. Cena (not as bad as he was before, but still nothing I'd like to see too much of), Batista (terrible), CM Punk (totally not ready for it), Orton (getting better but he's injured and we've seen him against everyone already, and even then he's not THAT exciting), Kane (shell of his former self), Mysterio (not convincing, especially with that terrible finisher), JBL (the worst of the bunch)....ouch.

What is there to look forward to? Lol. Punk vs JBL was boring and I doubt it'll get better than what we saw tonight. Punk vs Cena? No thanks. Punk vs Batista? Good lord no. Punk/Mysterio? Punk/Kane? C'mon. Then we'll get the oh-so-fresh feuds of Batista/JBL, Cena/Batista, Cena/Kane, Kane/JBL, Kane/Batista, Mysterio/Kane, Mysterio/Batista.....I don't know, I'm just not looking forward to it at all. This show needs to ship JBL over to ECW, turn Batista and Punk heel, and add the Undertaker. THEN we can see some good feuds, like Undertaker/Jericho, Undertaker/Cena, Undertaker/HBK.

As far as Punk goes.......well......its not as bad as having JBL as the champ. However, its annoying that they had to have Edge lose his title as opposed to HHH. I'm not bored with seeing Edge as champ, but I've been tired of Triple H since the Royal Rumble lol.

What are you talking about?! I don't understand why everyone is so down on Cena and since Batista feuded with Taker he has become 10 times better than before. Kane is not there to hold the world title, he just belongs on Raw and is probably close to done. Mysterio can be credible if creative doesn't bury him. Orton sucks, but is an enormously good heel. JBL is good, but will never be as good as he once was since his back injury. Vince still believes that the "Wrestling Gawd" is in there somewhere and that is why he is on Raw. With Trips on SD, when Taker returns it WILL be on Raw, and if you ask me that makes for some hella good and fresh matches on both Raw and SD. And before you even say it, i am 20, so don't try and tell me i only support Cena because im below the age of 10.

As far as Punk goes, he IS ready for main event status, but i would've liked to see him build on SD first. However, he was built up massive amounts on ECW and is WAY over right now. It was an extremely intelligent move to give it to him tonight after the whole world was wondering how Raw would function w/o a title. I expected Batista or Cena to win last night, along with everyone else. When that didn't happen, i actually expected Punk to take Trips title and go heel. When that didn't happen, i figured we'd see a rematch of some sort, but not this. WWE hit a major swerve and this was the most exciting Raw i've seen in a long, LONG while. Punk will be a good champ. (of course, i don't see Cena holding the WHC, but we'll see).

Oh, and one last thing: CM Punk is holding MITB for WHO?

DeadmanInc.

06-30-2008, 10:10 PM

Personally, I don't think Punk was ready to be a main event star at all. Ever since he won the Money in the Bank, there has been NO build up for his main event status at all. He lost the majority of his matches prior to tonight and then suddenly he's a main event star? Come on, way to make the title look worthless. And why does WWE insist on making Edge look weak? He lost the WHC in less than a minute to a guy that struggled to beat Chuck Polumbo.

Don't get me wrong, I think Punk is a decent wrestler but he simply isn't ready to be a main eventer. He is still sloppy in the ring and barely has any character. They should have developed his character more and allowed him to improve his ring abilities before making him champion. I don't see him as anything more than a transitional champ, nothing more than a way to get the belt back to RAW. I wouldn't be surprised if he lost it next week.

Another thing, I really wish the WWE title went back to RAW instead of the WHC. RAW now has an actual championship while Smackdown is still stuck with Cena's bling-bling bullshit. A smarter move would've been to have Punk cash in last night on HHH @ NoC. This would've allowed a heel turn for Punk and actually given him character. Having Punk go over the biggest heel in the company was a bad move and it certainly looked odd. The "opportunistic" way he won the belt was more of a heel tactic, something that Edge himself has done in the past. This also would have brought the WWE belt back to RAW, which makes more sense if they intend on keeping it as Cena's spinner belt.

rage780

06-30-2008, 10:15 PM

i was surprise that cm punk cash in his MITB tonight against edge. i thought he was either cashing it in against HHH sunday's night or at edge's wedding. i was really hoping he save it until edge wedding with vickie guerro. as you can tell i hate them both with vickie as the one that i hate the most. i am not sure if he is ready for it just yet. he is close but he needs to fine tune his wrestling moves. raw really needs undertaker to be involve in the main events otherwise the storylines will get stale quickly. batista is ok when he wants to be(championship fight). orton is one of my favorite heel. i am indifferent on cena which is bad quality to have for a wrestler.

Adz

06-30-2008, 10:18 PM

Didn't see it coming at all! One word AWESOME.

Regardless of what you think of Punk (I don't really like him) this is the icing on a big RAW RED CAKE

RAW has changed BIG TIME in just 2weeks.

All the Champions on RAW are now new young talent! This is an exciting time for the WWE and it's fans. I don't remember RAW with this sort of landscape of growth and potential in a long time.

Let's see if they can keep it up.

DerringerEagle

06-30-2008, 10:21 PM

HHH: But Vince, I don't wanna lie down for CM Punk, make Adam do it instead. He's a quiet guy and never complains, so he will just go along with it. But if you make me lose the title, Ill stand in the corner and hold my breath until my face turns blue!

Vince: Alright alright, I'll make Edge lose it even though it means killing all the momentum he has right now.

HHH: Aww, thanks daddy. Just for that, I'll give you another grandkid.

Personally, I don't think Punk was ready to be a main event star at all. Ever since he won the Money in the Bank, there has been NO build up for his main event status at all. He lost the majority of his matches prior to tonight and then suddenly he's a main event star? Come on, way to make the title look worthless. And why does WWE insist on making Edge look weak? He lost the WHC in less than a minute to a guy that struggled to beat Chuck Polumbo.

Well, Punk did come in a gave him the GTS after Edge had been beaten to hell by Batista. I really hope they make Edge a lot more violent now that he lost his title. Take his anger out on the SD roster through Vickie,

CDR

06-30-2008, 10:25 PM

I cna't believe how great raw is now. But I just don't see Punk's title rain lasting that long. Theres plenty of other talent who is better than him. And if Undertaker comes back on raw than Punk's ship is sunk because there would be no way to have Punk as champ with Rey, HBK, Y2J, Cena, Batista, Taker (maybe) on the same show.

Tonight was one of the best Raws i've ever seen.

DeadmanInc.

06-30-2008, 10:33 PM

Well, Punk did come in a gave him the GTS after Edge had been beaten to hell by Batista. I really hope they make Edge a lot more violent now that he lost his title. Take his anger out on the SD roster through Vickie,

I know that, but I just can't believe they had Punk go over Edge, the best heel on Smackdown for almost 2 years, after no build up at all. Beating or no beating, the fact that they just handed the World Title to a guy who was barely in the upper mid card makes Edge look weak and the title look worthless.

I hate to bring in the old Triple H politics into this thread but it really seems like that's what happened. NoC was laced with perfect opportunity for CM Punk. If Triple H played out the leg injury and Punk cashed, it would have set the stage for Punk's heel turn. And I've seen his RoH work, he plays a damn good heel, much better than this bland babyface WWE presents.

I think the most likely outcome is John Cena getting the belt either in the next few RAW's or in a match at BASH. Unfortunately, it looks like Jiggly Boobs Layfield will be involved as well.

George Michael

06-30-2008, 10:42 PM

I have a lingereing feeling that Punk won't make a heel turn until he loses that title, most likely due to bitterness. I was just complaining Saturday about how Monday Raw has not seen a title change in ages, so to see this happen was a pleasent surprise.
It leaves a lot of questions though, like how many weeks can Punk keep the title, and what will be the RAW main event at the Bash and at Summer Slam. Batista in another heavyweight title match would be booooring, and it looks as though the Cena/JBL feud has been reignited. My guess is that Edge will use his rematch clause at the Bash, as they are both on seperate shows.
Punk (c) vs. JBL vs. Cena at Summer Slam..?

Davi323

06-30-2008, 11:00 PM

ronbart

06-30-2008, 11:02 PM

unless there is an upcomming heel turn for batista. im mean, he did do all the work and punk got the title. batista may come after punk, claiming punk could not have won the belt without him. then we could see Punk (c) vs. batista

this could be good for both sides. punk could get to prove himself against one of wwe's top performers and batista could update his image.

DeadmanInc.

06-30-2008, 11:05 PM

Why is CM Punk getting crap for winning the World title like this, when this is EXACTLY how Edge won it? Didn't he cash in his MITB to take advantage of a very tired and bloody Undertaker? Edge will now feud with Triple H for the WWE Title, and it will be incredibly entertaining TV. They needed to get a title on RAW, needed to surprise people for the PPV, who assumed either Batista or Cena would bring one of the belts back, and who better to do it than the guy whose storyline says he can get a title match for any title, at any time? It makes storyline sense. Who cares if CM Punk doesn't hold it very long...Kane's title run lasted what, 23 hours?

It's not HOW he won it, it's the fact that he won it at all. When Edge cashed in on Undertaker, he had already been the WWE champion twice and he recently got out of a feud with DX. He was already established as a main eventer. That's the big difference between Edge and Punk. CM Punk had absolutely no build up at all to main event status, then all of a sudden he's RAW's top champ. Even when Edge won his first Money in the Bank, he had some exposure to the main event scene, getting screwed in the Elimination Chamber, becoming obsessed with the World Title, etc. CM Punk has been upper mid card at best, but his record after WM 24 says otherwise. This guy lost just about every match and struggled to beat nobodies.

DerringerEagle

06-30-2008, 11:13 PM

DerringerEagle

06-30-2008, 11:17 PM

I know that, but I just can't believe they had Punk go over Edge, the best heel on Smackdown for almost 2 years, after no build up at all. Beating or no beating, the fact that they just handed the World Title to a guy who was barely in the upper mid card makes Edge look weak and the title look worthless.

I hate to bring in the old Triple H politics into this thread but it really seems like that's what happened. NoC was laced with perfect opportunity for CM Punk. If Triple H played out the leg injury and Punk cashed, it would have set the stage for Punk's heel turn. And I've seen his RoH work, he plays a damn good heel, much better than this bland babyface WWE presents.

I think the most likely outcome is John Cena getting the belt either in the next few RAW's or in a match at BASH. Unfortunately, it looks like Jiggly Boobs Layfield will be involved as well.

I'll say one thing, Triple H and his pull better not be behind this, because I will lose all respect for the man if he did. Edge has worked his ass off being a world class bastard and a dictator champion on SD over the last year. Suddenly, HHH gets moved to the show and Edge gets jobbed out of his title, undoing all the good he has done for that brand in the course of 2 weeks.

Idk, maybe they will have him win the WWE title from Hunter as a wedding present to Vickie or something like that.

kabby420

06-30-2008, 11:19 PM

what i don't understand fully; is why did the wwe have punk lose with the MITB so many times, then have him come in and take the title from edge!, i'm glad he didn't lose to JBL, but i think he's just a transition champ, he deserves at least a few months with the belt, but he more then likely will lose in the coming weeks.

If that doesn't happen, like i said i hope he has a decent run with it... his GTS finisher is pretty sick, and he does a great technical job in the ring, i don't know how his mic skills are, but his in ring work is pretty solid.

I hope he main events for a while, and i hope he gets around to facing taker!!!!

George Michael

06-30-2008, 11:22 PM

It's not HOW he won it, it's the fact that he won it at all. When Edge cashed in on Undertaker, he had already been the WWE champion twice and he recently got out of a feud with DX. He was already established as a main eventer. That's the big difference between Edge and Punk. CM Punk had absolutely no build up at all to main event status, then all of a sudden he's RAW's top champ. Even when Edge won his first Money in the Bank, he had some exposure to the main event scene, getting screwed in the Elimination Chamber, becoming obsessed with the World Title, etc. CM Punk has been upper mid card at best, but his record after WM 24 says otherwise. This guy lost just about every match and struggled to beat nobodies.

It almost seems as though they wanted Punk to put over as many people as possible before cashing in his MITB, but this doesn't seem to make sense. He lost the ECW title, and rematch, then won the MITB. I guess merely having the MITB is justifieable reason to job, job, job someone to the title.
Looking back at when Edge won the first MITB he was thrust into month long, entertaining feuds with Chris Benoit, Kane, Matt Hardy and The Nature Boy. Maybe I was wrong in my previous post and Punk will go on a long title run (most likely dubbed an underdog story)..?

AnthonyMango/NoFate007

06-30-2008, 11:29 PM

What are you talking about?! I don't understand why everyone is so down on Cena and since Batista feuded with Taker he has become 10 times better than before. Kane is not there to hold the world title, he just belongs on Raw and is probably close to done. Mysterio can be credible if creative doesn't bury him. Orton sucks, but is an enormously good heel. JBL is good, but will never be as good as he once was since his back injury. Vince still believes that the "Wrestling Gawd" is in there somewhere and that is why he is on Raw. With Trips on SD, when Taker returns it WILL be on Raw, and if you ask me that makes for some hella good and fresh matches on both Raw and SD. And before you even say it, i am 20, so don't try and tell me i only support Cena because im below the age of 10.

As far as Punk goes, he IS ready for main event status, but i would've liked to see him build on SD first. However, he was built up massive amounts on ECW and is WAY over right now. It was an extremely intelligent move to give it to him tonight after the whole world was wondering how Raw would function w/o a title. I expected Batista or Cena to win last night, along with everyone else. When that didn't happen, i actually expected Punk to take Trips title and go heel. When that didn't happen, i figured we'd see a rematch of some sort, but not this. WWE hit a major swerve and this was the most exciting Raw i've seen in a long, LONG while. Punk will be a good champ. (of course, i don't see Cena holding the WHC, but we'll see).

Oh, and one last thing: CM Punk is holding MITB for WHO?

I'm down on Cena for the same reasons that everyone else is. He's not horrible, but he doesn't have what it takes to entertain me on a consistent basis, especially in situations like last night when he used the same 4 moves 3 or 4 times a piece.

Batista definitely has improved since feuding with Taker...but 10x0 isn't saying much lol. That's like saying (albeit blown out of proportion of course) that it'd be much better to die quickly by being shot than slowly by being stabbed. I still don't want to die. Batista might be better than before, but improvement doesn't mean he's good, as I still think he sucks lol.

Kane is not there to hold the world title...exactly. So why should I care about him if he feuds with anybody if he has no chance at winning? He'll just job out to people on a regular basis. What's the fun in that if we can't take it at face value that his matches will be entertaining enough to be worth the inevitable endings? If he was an amazing performer, it'd be different, because at the very least you could say "well, the match was fun until he lost, which we all saw coming".

Mysterio has the "same few moves" problem to me, but on top of that, he's in the same situation that Big Show and Hornswoggle are in. Its hard to make anybody beat Big Show without making Big Show look bad unless the person is huge like Taker or Batista, just as its hard for Mysterio or Hornswoggle to beat anybody that isn't smaller than them without making that person look bad. Mysterio is a very dedicated worker but his size works against him and his finisher is fun to watch but absolutely ridiculous. The setup calls for far too much suspension of disbelief and it doesn't look like it hurts at all (though I still wouldn't want to get kicked in the head).

Orton's good at making people hate him, I'll give him that, and he's not terrible in the ring. He's improved during his title reign. However, he many times falls into a full-fledged outline of previous matches, much like HHH. He doesn't switch things up enough. So while he's consistent, that's also a downfall, as its predictable.

JBL is EXTREMELY good on the mic. Good enough that I'd really love it if he was the Raw General Manager and they allowed Regal to return to the ring in place of JBL. However, in the ring, he's atrocious. I have never seen a singles JBL match that I liked that I can remember, even back when he was Justin Hawk Bradshaw lol.

I hope Undertaker is on Raw, as he could breathe some life into some good feuds. I don't want to see Undertaker/Batista anymore, but I wouldn't mind seeing Taker/HBK, Taker/Jericho, Taker/Orton, or Taker/Cena.

Wasn't planning on saying you were 10 years old or "just a girl that likes Cena for his appearance". Even though it seems like the majority of his fans do fall into those two categories, there are always gray areas. I don't mind Cena in small doses at all, I just don't think he's a spectacular in-ring performer.

Punk being ready...I just don't think so...especially with the way he's been booked lately. The guy's lost cleanly to the Miz and just about everyone else recently. While Miz has improved a vast amount, he'd be good for a US or IC title reign but not the main event spot, so Punk losing to a midcarder who hasn't received a midcard title yet doesn't look good. Punk in my point of view is more than qualified for an IC or US title reign...and a long reign at that...but he isn't solid enough (especially in terms of money drawing power) to be one of the top 2 guys in the company. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong and suddenly starts amazing me with new moves and such, but I doubt it, as we've seen Punk do the same stuff for the past 6 months. Knee to the face in the corner, bulldog, bounce of the top rope for a clothesline, GTS which may be stunted by someone elbowing him 3 times in the face, etc.

Now its not a question of "Punk is holding the MITB case for _____", but its "Punk is just holding the WHC title for _____" lol. I will give the WWE this, though: I didn't see it coming tonight, so that was a shock. Whether or not this shock will in retrospect be worthless or pessimistic, though, we'll see.

DerringerEagle

06-30-2008, 11:32 PM

The thing that still bothers me about what happened tonight is how Edge reacted to the loss. He just yelled at the Edge heads and slinked away from the arena all pissed off. At the very least, he should have come out at the end of the show and blugeoned Punk with a couple of Con-chair-to shots, leaving him a bloody wreck for what he did to him earlier.

That's what pisses me off about how they write his character. He doesn't do anything about it when he gets beaten down or screwed over. When he first turned heel, he was a psychotic menace who hurt the people who screwed him over. I really wish WWE creative would make him tougher and more menacing.

Gifted Music

06-30-2008, 11:45 PM

I agree.. But I KNEW when Edge came out to interupt Jim Ross, he wasn't leaving as the World Heavyweight Champion.. Then Batista came out and I remember how Edge took the title from the Undertaker.. It wasn't until after Mark Henry came out and took The Undertaker out.. Then Edge, in his first appearance on Smackdown, cashed in his briefcase with a Spear and a 3 count to the Undertaker. So when Batista attacked Edge, I knew it wasn't going to be him.. Then when he Batista Bombed Edge and just left, I knew what was happening.. And CM Punk's first appearance on Raw ends with him as World Champion.. It's not what I would've done...But here's my theory..

Vince realizes he messed up.. He realizes that CM Punk was not going to be ready to carry the World Title in a year, which is all the case is good for. BUT, if CM Punk were to cash in that briefcase and lose, the MITB would lose all the aura around it.. Everyone kept plugging how "Everyone who's cashed in that briefcase has become World Champion".. If Punk were to lose, the match and briefcase would lose the aura around it every year.. They wouldn't have anything to build around it. So, what Vince decided to do, was go ahead and give Punk a run with the World Title...Have it last a month or two, then get it outta the way.. That way, it helps build up Punk for a FUTURE, MORE LEGITIMATE run, and at the same time the MITB briefcase doesn't lose the aura of invincibility surrounding it.

My Prediction: He loses it to a heel Batista at GAB or Summerslam, Batista feuds with Rey Mysterio awhile, aswell as possibly Shawn Michaels and ofcourse granting Punk a rematch, culminating to a match against John Cena at Wrestlemania 25 with one of them as Champion.. Batista may lose it in a triple threat that includes Randy Orton and then John Cena wins it, but either way, Cena v Batista at WM 25 for the World Heavyweight Championship.

George Michael

06-30-2008, 11:50 PM

That's what pisses me off about how they write his character. He doesn't do anything about it when he gets beaten down or screwed over. When he first turned heel, he was a psychotic menace who hurt the people who screwed him over. I really wish WWE creative would make him tougher and more menacing.

Agreed, but this was also before he was champion. Triple H was similar in the late 90's after he turned heel; a guy you didn't want to be on the bad side of. It wasn't long after he won the title though that he ran around with cronies, wussing his way through title fights. Like Triple H this is Edge's role now.. the cowardly weiner who needs his cronies. I think tonight was about letting Punk walk out looking like a champion (he has been jobbed out for about 3 months now). Edge and friends will have plenty of time to Gang bang Punk later on (fingers crossed).

DerringerEagle

06-30-2008, 11:55 PM

Agreed, but this was also before he was champion. Triple H was similar in the late 90's after he turned heel; a guy you didn't want to be on the bad side of. It wasn't long after he won the title though that he ran around with cronies, wussing his way through title fights. Like Triple H this is Edge's role now.. the cowardly weiner who needs his cronies. I think tonight was about letting Punk walk out looking like a champion (he has been jobbed out for about 3 months now). Edge and friends will have plenty of time to Gang bang Punk later on (fingers crossed).

True, but at least Triple H had a toughness about him that he could get it done on his own. Then came the sledgehammer and the whole "I cripple people" attitude, which I hope they go with Edge. I want to see him be a lot meaner and sadistic in the future.

BaconBits

07-01-2008, 12:01 AM

I think CM Punk is just keeping the belt warm for the Undertaker, who will return as the American Badass the night after the Great American Bash. He will get a title match right away, because there will be a new commisioner that night who will be making a big splash. That commisioner...

Stone Cold.

I think the whole CM Punk as champ thing was dreamed up literally five minutes before Night of Champions. It reeks of a thrown together storyline that's just a stop gap for something bigger and better down the road.

CDR

07-01-2008, 12:27 AM

I think CM Punk is just keeping the belt warm for the Undertaker, who will return as the American Badass the night after the Great American Bash. He will get a title match right away, because there will be a new commisioner that night who will be making a big splash. That commisioner...

Stone Cold.

Alright dude you're crazy. Stone Cold ain't coming back and if he did it would be for like one night only. That would be pretty cool though. But I could see Undertaker coming back as the American Badass. If he did come back it would be at the Great American Bash not raw. He would maybe get a title later and would begin a long title run. That would be awsome!

Rebel2K8

07-01-2008, 12:30 AM

I will be the first to say I am vex as hell about what happened to Edge on Raw. He's my favorite and CM Punk taking the title from him was teh last thing I expected to happen. But after thinking I realised this is the best thing to happen to WWE in a while. Watching Raw is like taking a breath of fresh air and now the sky's the limit on how far raw will go. As for Smackdown, that's simple, Edge will now set his sets on Triple H's WWE Title and then we'll see what happens. Personally, I'll be rooting for Edge but that's just me. Someone in creative needs to be praised because finally the E in WW stands for Entertainment again.

WWEFan2000

07-01-2008, 12:35 AM

Wow! When Edge was talking, I thought CM Punk would come down and challenge him. But I didn't think he would use it tonight. I thought he would challenge Edge to a match at GAB. Then I saw Batista and I thought "Batista-Edge rematch at GAB". Then we see CM Punk and he becomes new champ!

Even though I don't think he is ready for it, I was going crazy and loved the surprise and I'm an Edge fan. He might not be ready but I like CM Punk so I won't complain about him winning the WHC. I can't wait to see what happens next week. Going to be interesting to see who he challenges next week. I'm thinking Punk vs Cena va JBL at GAB but we will see.

CDR

07-01-2008, 12:49 AM

Yeah I see a JBL vs. Punk vs. Cena at GAB. I see Cena making JBL tap then Punk saying he deserves a rematch but Batista comes out and says he wants a match. Then maybe someone else like Mysterio or Jericho or HBK comes out, says they haven't had a match in while and deserves one. Then donnn......donnn. The return of the Deadman! Then he takes out everyone in sight and at Summerslam we have an Elimination Chamber match for the world hevyweight title between Cena, JBL, Punk, Batista, Rey or Y2J or HBK, and The Undertaker. Awesome match!

tha_icon85

07-01-2008, 12:58 AM

all in all this was by far one of the best raws in recent memory. Punk winning the gold giving edge a taste of his on medicine. this type of programming makes u wanna tune in next week. And big up to edge for hopefully starting a trend and help putting over a young star. now if they can repeat the suspense and add a lil more wrestling we may be seeing the begin stages of the next boom in pro wrestling. I dnt even watch smackdown on a regular basis but this not the draft makes me wanna tune in this friday.

side note: I see now why vince brought back ecw. u can give the young guys time to grow while build there fan base and when u wanna put the trigger, POW u got young established guy with a fanbase to add excitement to the higher shows new and fresh storylines and years worth of feud wit the vets and each other. heat and velocity come have never accomplish this. in a matter of a week u got two former ecw brand guy wit gold on the flagship show.

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 01:00 AM

This is a fucking outrage, a travesty of justice. C.M. Punk? Raw Heavyweight Champion? The guy was jobbing to the Tag Team Champions of E.C.W. just a week or two ago, and hes now suddenly the World Heavyweight Champion?

Do you have ANY idea how incredible C.M. Punk just made Mark Henry look as World Champion? Any.. the guy is shit, hes beneath shit, hes horrible and to even allow him to SEE the World Championship is bullshit.

I'm outraged and pissed off bar none because he took it from Edge, the ONE true Champion that meant something in the company. So now what.. Triple H. is the only true dominate Champion. Mark Henry has no opponents that can match him, and Punk needs to figure out how to escape every match he'll ever be in for the rest of his days as Champion.. because the Punk ass bastard couldn't find victory in a game of connect four, if he was playing a blind person.

Just think of how stupid the Great American Bash Main Event would sound. John Cena.. John Bradshaw Layfield.. C.M. Punk. Seriously. People are going to question whether or not hes a new time keeper, because Punk's name just has NO belonging anywhere near the World Heavyweight Championship picture.

FoleyIsGod

07-01-2008, 01:17 AM

Ok, I have been seemingly predicting the writing teams decisions lately. First up was the elimination 4 way at Backlash for the title. Now, the wierd thing is, I was saying to my friends before it got booked was "Why don't the WWe have elimination 4 ways anymore? They were pretty cool and one of my favourite match types, albeit on the games only.

So imagine my surpirse this morning when Punkwon the belt. Only hours earlier, I had been saying Cm Punk is probabaly ging to cash in tonight to make Raw have on of the big belts. And lo and behold, he did it.

I had not read any spoilers of any kind, I just get feelings stuff is about to happen.

Im scared :(

CDR

07-01-2008, 01:30 AM

This is a fucking outrage, a travesty of justice. C.M. Punk? Raw Heavyweight Champion? The guy was jobbing to the Tag Team Champions of E.C.W. just a week or two ago, and hes now suddenly the World Heavyweight Champion?

Do you have ANY idea how incredible C.M. Punk just made Mark Henry look as World Champion? Any.. the guy is shit, hes beneath shit, hes horrible and to even allow him to SEE the World Championship is bullshit.

Just think of how stupid the Great American Bash Main Event would sound. John Cena.. John Bradshaw Layfield.. C.M. Punk. Seriously. People are going to question whether or not hes a new time keeper, because Punk's name just has NO belonging anywhere near the World Heavyweight Championship picture.

I'm not real big on Punk either but I think he can be champion atleast for a little while. I don't think this will last but I am impressed with the WWE for pulling it off. And you didn't like it at all? Wow

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 01:38 AM

I'm not real big on Punk either but I think he can be champion atleast for a little while. I don't think this will last but I am impressed with the WWE for pulling it off. And you didn't like it at all? Wow

Hell no I didn't like it. Why the fuck would I like it. It was the absolute worst thing to happen since Mark Henry winning the E.C.W. Championship. At least Henry won in a respectful manner, in which he defeated another half assed Champion.

Edge was, is and will always be a great World Heavyweight Champion. The man went through 4 monthes of shit storylines with the Undertaker, all to get his Championship back because it was widely decided that HE (Edge) could carry the Smackdown brand and HE (Edge) would be a great Champion that would be better suited to hold the title, than chase it.

Now all the sudden, because Triple H. comes to Smackdown with the W.W.E. Title.. Edge has to give up his, and to Indy Punk none the less? Seriously.. just give the fucking strap to Colin Delaney, right fricken now.. because thats how piss poor it was.

W.W.E. is bottomfeeding on W.C.W. angles to try and scrap up any type of rating they can. Remember when they stripped the Championship in 2000, then had Booker T v. Jeff Jarrett to crown a new Champion? And it was suppose to be between the younger talent/the talent that wanted to be Champion.

W.W.E. is doing that very same angle, right fucking now. The difference.. Edge was a deserving, great and unbelievable Champion. He got screwed.. in the ass.. harder than Nick Hogan during his first night in prison!

Whats worse.. Indy Punk couldn't carry ratings if he was delivering the paper the ratings are printed on, from the mail box to Vince McMahon's office.

You know how this will go down? People will love it because the Money in the Bank was cashed in and the holder won the Championship. In 6 monthes, you randomly begin asking people who that holder was.. and the answer you'll likely get is.. "Uhm, wasn't it suppose to be Jeff Hardy?" Because Indy fucking Punk wasn't even suppose to be in this damn storyline. I hate this shit.

EDIT: You know what this was like.. stepping in dog shit. Sure, its surprising.. and you'll reply with "What the fuck" almost instantly when it happens because you'll be so shocked.. but it isn't the GOOD kinda shock. Its dog shit!

Kevin "Big Monkey" Nash

07-01-2008, 01:52 AM

I'm kind of torn on this. On one hand we get a major shock. On the other hand we get a pile of shit, like Will so eloquently said. I just hope to god this is either the start of a heel turn for Punk. Or he is a transitional champion. He is so bland. I mean my god. They couldve just gave the belt to a cardboard box.

He looks so out of place with that gorgeous belt too. It's kind of like how Triple H looks with the spinner title, except its worse. He never garners a crowd reaction worthy of anything. He may have gotten one after he cashed in but then it dies right down again. If it was anyone else they wouldve gotten heat all the way through the night. A great short term move, but if it lasts long term they will only be shooting themselves in the foot.

CDR

07-01-2008, 01:58 AM

Hell no I didn't like it. Why the fuck would I like it. It was the absolute worst thing to happen since Mark Henry winning the E.C.W. Championship. At least Henry won in a respectful manner, in which he defeated another half assed Champion.

Edge was, is and will always be a great World Heavyweight Champion. The man went through 4 monthes of shit storylines with the Undertaker, all to get his Championship back because it was widely decided that HE (Edge) could carry the Smackdown brand and HE (Edge) would be a great Champion that would be better suited to hold the title, than chase it.

Now all the sudden, because Triple H. comes to Smackdown with the W.W.E. Title.. Edge has to give up his, and to Indy Punk none the less? Seriously.. just give the fucking strap to Colin Delaney, right fricken now.. because thats how piss poor it was.

. He got screwed.. in the ass.. harder than Nick Hogan during his first night in prison!

Whats worse.. Indy Punk couldn't carry ratings if he was delivering the paper the ratings are printed on, from the mail box to Vince McMahon's office.

.

Yes Edge is definatley a way better champion than Punk will ever be and the reason Punk won is because Batista beat him up first! In a one on one match Edge would whoop him up all over the floor.

lol that was hilarious and you're absolutly right. And in a perfect world HHH would be the one getting screwed. Edge should still have the belt around his waist but surley he will soon. His whole la famila crap will screw HHH out of the title then you'll be happy again.

And people do know who CM Punk is. He was deffinatley the most popular on ECW (even though nobody watches it). If they gave him a few more weeks then he would be more popular and a better champion.

Now would you rather have Cena winning at NOC, bringing the belt to raw, and keep winning like he always does and make it boring? Or have Edge lose the title to Batista at NOC? And it doesn't matter because Edge will get a title match later and if they're smart he wins.

RSM700

07-01-2008, 02:06 AM

Sounds like a bunch of wrestling fans to me. Now I'm not including those that dislike Punk, but those who suport him. I've been hearing for months now (maybe even longer) on how WWE needs new people in the main event and title picture. And CM Punk's name was always brought up "They should put the belt on Punk" "Punk should be champion, or Jeff Hardy, or Mr. Kennedy" Just to see a change. Now Punk wins and all of sudden those who were eagert to see him as Champ are like "yeah but he's not ready" Seriously make up your damn minds. Wrestling fans could never be pleased, today I realise that. And to those who hate Punk as Champ, think what you would be posting if Cena,JBL,Batista or whoever had won, everybody would be like "no not this again."

And a belt had to be brought to RAW, of course it's not HHH's, but if it was some of the new anti-Punk cruisiders wouldn't have mind. Some would have even been like "good, we're seeing some change"

Personally I marked when he won, and marked out again when he retained becuase I thought he was going to lose to JBL.

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 02:07 AM

Yes Edge is definatley a way better champion than Punk will ever be and the reason Punk won is because Batista beat him up first! In a one on one match Edge would whoop him up all over the floor.

The simple fact is, Edge has already defeated Indy Punk in a regular match. Punk won via following the ways of Edge himself.. and thats it. Punk was the first "face" to cash in in a heelish fashion, because the guy has been jobbing to everyone for the past year.

Sadly, I predict him to actually go on to defeat Edge in a single's rematch, merely to prove he isn't a fluke Champion. I just hope whoever wrote this shit will get off the crack and realize he very much IS a fluke Champion. Hes currently holding Jeff Hardy's original storyline.

lol that was hilarious and you're absolutly right. And in a perfect world HHH would be the one getting screwed. Edge should still have the belt around his waist but surley he will soon. His whole la famila crap will screw HHH out of the title then you'll be happy again.

La' Familia isn't crap, its one of the best stables (if not practically the only) in the W.W.E. right now. Vickie Guerrero is one of the best heels in all of the W.W.E. right now, thats how hot her and Edge are in this storyline.

So clearly it makes perfect fucking sense to cost Edge his Main Event Championship :rolleyes: Especially to a guy who was being upstaged by a midget a few weeks ago.

And people do know who CM Punk is. He was deffinatley the most popular on ECW (even though nobody watches it). If they gave him a few more weeks then he would be more popular and a better champion.

What the hell? Thats about the equal to saying you're the smartest kid with down syndrome. C.M. Punk wasn't the highest rated/most watched Champion E.C.W. had either.. John Morrison was.

Let me give you an example of the pop Punk gets.

4yto_589gYI

Do you hear that amazing pop? NO, you sure as hell don't. Because there was none.. until after he won. At which point everyone in that arena collectively stepped in dog shit.

Now would you rather have Cena winning at NOC, bringing the belt to raw, and keep winning like he always does and make it boring? Or have Edge lose the title to Batista at NOC? And it doesn't matter because Edge will get a title match later and if they're smart he wins.

Yes.. Cena.. anything but Indy Punk. If Cena defeated Triple H., it would build Triple H. v. Edge for the World Championship toward either Summerslam, Survivor Series or Wrestlemania. At which point Edge would continue being exactly what he was.. a very dominate Champion.

Now you have Indy Punk, who'll suddenly make Mark Henry's E.C.W. Championship title defenses seem worth something. Congrats needs to go to the W.W.E., for making E.C.W. not so shitty anymore.

CDR

07-01-2008, 02:23 AM

varney

07-01-2008, 02:35 AM

you internet fans make me sick, enjoy the moment ........rejuvenation...finally young talent is being showcased.
dont get mad at punk for going over edge, we will be entertained with a great edge HHH feud in no time
has anyone realized Samoa Joe and CM Punk are both world champions at the same time...the future has finally arrived
enjoy the moment internet fans, two of the biggest guys to leave the indies are kings of there companies

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 02:39 AM

No they won't face each other again because Edge is on Smackdown and Punk is on raw. And if they did the only way he'd win would be someway that's not completely clean.

Vickie Guerrero is still the General Manager. (of Smackdown, albeit) Edge was the former World Heavyweight Champion. Most Champions have the right to have a rematch, regardless of brands. Punk doubtfully will jump right into Batista, J.B.L. and Cena in any type of multi-man match.

They'll wanna match him against someone that would at least be believable for him to defeat. Edge is the winner in that losing game, simply because Edge is the smallest guy that could compare to Punk's cruiserweight stature.

Edge will demand his return title match. Vickie (as the only GM, outside of Teddy who has no authority over Raw or SD) will pull strings and make the match for the Great American Bash. I'm sure of this. If Edge doesn't get a rematch, then its even more bullshit.. as Punk would be considered the world's biggest fluke Champion, even worse than David Arquette.

La Familia is crap because all they do is help Edge get crappy wins. Edge hasn't won without them in a hell of a long time. They're just there to ensure Edge gets a cheap win.

Edge is heel, hes the leader of that stable.. what the hell do you expect them to do during his matches? Cheer him on from the locker room? Play checkers? Of course they're gonna help him win, thats what factions and stables do.. they help each other.

The whole point of that stable is to support Edge as their "King." So naturally he won't have to win matches on his own, because he has 4 other guys and a General Manager at his side.

The crowd got excited as he came out. Nothing like Stone Cold or something but I think that win made him way more popular with the fans. The crowd did get loud when he came out though

The crowd was excited because Batista just whipped the unholy shit outta Edge, who didn't see the back-attack coming. Punk came out, and half the people in the arena likely turned to the people on their sides, asking who he even was.

Punk got a pop for winning, and the fans chanted the 3-count for two reasons.

1. Everyone loves Championships changing hands. Hornswoggle would've received a bigger pop than Punk, if he'd of won the Tag Team titles last night.

2. Moronic fans love to count with the official. W.W.E. is in the works to start up a Sesame Street co-corporation production with the Count. It'll be great, he'll come out with Indy Punk so he can properly count how many marks he has in the crowd. It'll never get above 10, so it'll be golden.

And if Cena won it would be the same old same old where nobody would beat him it would be boring. Punk becoming champ on raw was good because they can go somewhere with this.

Yeah, straight down. W.W.E. hasn't officially hit rockbottom in the ratings department.. I think they're currently trying to see how bad it might be, and believe me.. this should do the trick.

The ratings might fluke up for a week or two because people will be tuning in to see if the crazy bastard actually won.. but in the end, it won't last. Punk's reign shouldn't logically continue beyond Great American Bash, let alone Summerslam.

At this point, I welcome John Cena being Champion over Indy Punk. Seriously. At least I KNOW what Cena brings to the table. I might hate that too, but at least I know it won't suck as much as Punk's run.

mrpaul

07-01-2008, 02:40 AM

Now I'm not a Punk hater, I actually think he's pretty good, and i enjoy his matches with Morrison. But WWE have seriously dropped the ball here.
I'm not saying we dont need fresh faces in the WHC title scene, but there are other wrestlers who have performed better over the last year, who have entertained us more and who have earned the right to be WHC over Punk. Sadly, all of the wrestlers who deserve the belt are on, or have been drafted to, Smackdown. Hardy, Kennedy, even MVP.
Theres no reason why the two Championship belts couldnt have co-existed on the same brand for a while. We couldve had a great champion vs champion match at Summerslam.
Now dont get me wrong, I'm not a HHH hater either (yet) but why should Edge have to relinquish his title, and be made to look really weak (and make batista look good in the process) just so HHH can be the uber-lord over on Smackdown? Edge put on some great matches to win that title, and the TLC at ONS was brilliant.
I cant see Punk holding on to the belt for long, and sadly it will end up on either Batista, Cena or Taker/Orton when they return.
I can only hope that Edge wins the WWE Championship or Hardy finally gets put over (when it actually matters) by HHH. I was hoping to see some great Kennedy/Edge matches after the draft happened. No doubt I'll be disappointed once again. :(

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 02:45 AM

you internet fans make me sick, enjoy the moment ........rejuvenation...finally young talent is being showcased.
dont get mad at punk for going over edge, we will be entertained with a great edge HHH feud in no time

While I greatly welcome the Triple H./Edge feud.. Indy Punk has no flippin' business in the Main Event.

For the love of everything pure, don't you people get it?! Indy Punk won Jeff Hardy's storyline because of Hardy's mistake. W.W.E. didn't have the heart to tell Punk he sucked, so they just went with it.

This whole thing is one bad mistake after another, and creative should've nutted up and told Indy Punk the truth.. in which he absolutely sucks. The guy couldn't even carry E.C.W., how on earth is he going to be the top guy on their (originally) best show?

has anyone realized Samoa Joe and CM Punk are both world champions at the same time...the future has finally arrived

Yeah.. and the future is looking majorly fucked up at this point.

Average Joe and Indy Punk are collectively destroying the business. I didn't know R.O.H. bought out the two main companies and were now in control of how storylines and Championships were decided.

enjoy the moment internet fans, two of the biggest guys to leave the indies are kings of there companies

I got news for you.. Indy Punk, World Heavyweight Champion or not.. is no where NEAR the top of the company. If you were to rank them right now, he'd be somewhere around Colin Delaney, only slightly above.. because Punk has one more victory this year than Delaney.

Seriously.. fricken Punk fans.. the guy is crap, shit, disgusting. I'm normally willing to at least give everyone a chance. But Punk's chance was E.C.W. Champion. If he couldn't carry that title with any purpose, how in the world is he suppose to look like a credible legit. World Heavyweight Champion?

Kevin "Big Monkey" Nash

07-01-2008, 02:48 AM

you internet fans make me sick, enjoy the moment ........rejuvenation...finally young talent is being showcased.

For one if we make you sick dont come here. Secondly I am glad that new talent are being utilized. But they had to pick Punk. Who is so bland that his talent never shines. What about Jeff Hardy. I know he's on Smackdown now but he is more over than Punk is and far more talented. It's a travesty.

dont get mad at punk for going over edge, we will be entertained with a great edge HHH feud in no time

I'm not mad at Punk. Surely creative could've had somebody else take the title from Edge. Now don't get me wrong I like surprises. But this will be a bad one in a few weeks. They should've had Edge hold onto the title. Make a more interesting fued with Triple H, have a title unification. Then have either one champion, or set up a tournament to crown a new World Champion.

has anyone realized Samoa Joe and CM Punk are both world champions at the same time...the future has finally arrived
enjoy the moment internet fans, two of the biggest guys to leave the indies are kings of there companies

If the future is in the hands of both of these guys there will be no more wrestling. They will drive the business into the ground. Both are so bland they make Matt Hardy look like The Rock. Two overrated pieces of crap holding titles that they should never compete for.

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 02:49 AM

Okay, seriously.. I'm going to just throw this out there and you Punk marks can eat it up with a spoon.

Contenders: How in the wide world of Wrestling Entertainment, did Indy Punk just become a World Heavyweight Champion before guys like M.V.P., Mr. Kennedy, and Jeff Hardy?

By no means am I saying Hardy (with his mistakes) deserves the honor. But at least Hardy is a proven gold-mine with fans and high ratings. You put the strap on him, and hes suddenly gonna improve the show, because everyone will be flocking from the woodworks to see him.

Mr. Kennedy and M.V.P. are the two true Future Superstars in this business. Just because Indy Punk won a fluke Money in the Bank case.. that meant they couldn't of played out a storyline in which Kennedy took it from Punk, then cashed in on Edge to get revenge for Edge taking Kennedy's case and Championship from Taker a year ago?

I mean seriously, think about it. You have great storyline opportunities in the palm of your hand.. and some moron on creative has a brain fart and mouthes the words "Indy Punk".

Minor League Brian

07-01-2008, 02:54 AM

I'm not going to lie, but I marked the fuck out when I heard Punk one. Thats the ONLY time I've been more exciting watching the program after reading a spoiler. I know he's not excatly the best candidate, but you know what...he's new

And for all those people bitchin' and moanin'; think about this. Think about all the people who can beat Punk for the title. Mysterio can win it, MVP could win it, Hardy could easily win it, Kennedy, the list goes on. Yeah, most of them are on other Brands but seriously; at the very least you have NO IDEA who'll beat him because it could literally be ANYBODY! And every match he'll go into you'll be expecting him to lose the title, a reverse Cena.

I love this, I'd rather have him then Triple H and although I love Edge; Creative's killed his character and I've found myself bored of him lately. He's just to scared, and its almost seemed if La Familia has slowly been written out and the focus falls just on Vicki.

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 03:03 AM

And for all those people bitchin' and moanin'; think about this. Think about all the people who can beat Punk for the title. Mysterio can win it, MVP could win it, Hardy could easily win it, Kennedy, the list goes on. Yeah, most of them are on other Brands but seriously; at the very least you have NO IDEA who'll beat him because it could literally be ANYBODY! And every match he'll go into you'll be expecting him to lose the title, a reverse Cena.

I whole-heartedly agree with this. Indy Punk is so awful as Champion, he is literally a sit and wait to see how challenges him and has the first un-interrupted match first. Because in all fairness, thats who would likely defeat him and win the Championship.

The worst thing of it is.. if the title really does go back to John Cena from this position.. then we go from shit bottom, to not that great aftermath. But the fact, again, is Punk is very unproven and does not for anything deserve that spot.

You hear all these people moaning and complaining about the new guys not getting their due. Well, Punk got one hell of a due.. and I guarantee you he did not, does not, and will not deserve it. He'll run Raw into the ground as Champion. A Champion is suppose to be someone you feel could be a threat with the title. Someone you believe is worthy of the position. Punk is a cruiserweight at best. If they wanted to place the title on someone small, give it to Mysterio.

Then have Punk drop the MITB case. The assumed original plan for for Punk to drop the case back to Hardy anyways. Someone on creative must of forgot that step and skipped ahead to "holder cashes in on Edge" in a misunderstood error. As clearly something is wrong with discovering Punk just won the fricken World Heavyweight Championship.

I love this, I'd rather have him then Triple H and although I love Edge; Creative's killed his character and I've found myself bored of him lately. He's just to scared, and its almost seemed if La Familia has slowly been written out and the focus falls just on Vicki.

Thats because Vickie Guerrero pulls in massive heel heat. But guess what, she does it, because she keeps Edge in the Championship picture. Thats ALL she does. So Indy Punk's fluke win will even effect the way fans react to her now.

This isn't good for business. It was shock-value and good for what it was worth, but in all seriousness.. Punk should've lost to J.B.L. He would've made history for all the right reasons based on who he is.. a loser. The guy was jobbing to everyone this year.. now hes suddenly the leader? I don't think so.

JaJaBings

07-01-2008, 03:10 AM

Why get so emotional over Punk's win? Complaining doesn't change the fact that Punk is already the champion now. I'd say just live with it and hope WWE has the right plans for Punk and the upcoming #1 contenders to make this title reign credible.

I'm not exactly familiar with Punk's work cos' I dun watch ECW, and the first time I saw him, I was skeptical of him as well. Average looks, average build, average gimmick and a pair of funny tights. But when I saw his matches on PPVs and interbrand matches on RAW and Smackdown, I was impressed. I'd prefer watching him wrestle over alot of wrestlers on the roster now, even top tier ones like Triple H or Batista.

Yeah, I get the pt that Kennedy and MVP should be elevated to ME lvl way before Punk, but their progress would take more than a year without the acceleration granted by MITB. Since WWE put MITB on Punk, they're forced in a way to elevate Punk prematurely over the rest.

The whole gimmick abt MITB is that the winner relies heavily on opportunities, rather than relying on their own strength. Therefore altho' u guys lament that he's a fluke, I think he is SUPPOSED to act somewhat like a fluke. It all depends whether WWE wants to build him up more credibly by winning high profile matches against Cena/JBL/Batista etc. But I'm guessing they'll play out this fluke angle and have him lose the title at the next PPV.

tehblogger

07-01-2008, 03:31 AM

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 03:31 AM

Why get so emotional over Punk's win? Complaining doesn't change the fact that Punk is already the champion now. I'd say just live with it and hope WWE has the right plans for Punk and the upcoming #1 contenders to make this title reign credible.

I have a right to get emotional. I love Professional Wrestling and within the span of one segment I seen the main show turn to complete shit.

I'm completely repeating myself anymore with everything I say. Indy Punk is NOT World Heavyweight Championship material. So no, I won't be happy. I won't be patient and wait to see where it goes, because regardless it'll go there with a shit wrestler who doesn't deserve the spot hes in.

I'm not exactly familiar with Punk's work cos' I dun watch ECW, and the first time I saw him, I was skeptical of him as well. Average looks, average build, average gimmick and a pair of funny tights. But when I saw his matches on PPVs and interbrand matches on RAW and Smackdown, I was impressed. I'd prefer watching him wrestle over alot of wrestlers on the roster now, even top tier ones like Triple H or Batista.

Triple H. isn't on Raw, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing this travesty unfold. And I honestly hope Botchtista v. Indy Punk does happen. Maybe then in an unfortunate accident Punk will get injured enough to have to drop the title and return to the no-nothing levels of the business he belongs in.

Punk only has good matches when hes wrestling Superstars who can carry him. John Morrison, Chris Jericho, Elijah Burke, and Edge.

Punk's match with J.B.L. sucked, and I got a news flash for you.. it wasn't because J.B.L. sucks, it was because Punk can't carry the Main Event.

Yeah, I get the pt that Kennedy and MVP should be elevated to ME lvl way before Punk, but their progress would take more than a year without the acceleration granted by MITB. Since WWE put MITB on Punk, they're forced in a way to elevate Punk prematurely over the rest.

Thats honestly just.. well, I won't say stupid but I believe it is. I guarantee you, if someone randomly said "Edge v. Mystery Opponent" for the title.. and Mr. Kennedy walked out.. the roof would be gone. Same with M.V.P.

And whats more to that, M.V.P. was looking for a way off Smackdown, and he has all the proper skills in place to be a World Champion. Kennedy does as well, and neither of them need a fricken case to "accelerate" their progress.

And if you want the honest opinion of what I feel they should've and very easily could've done.. Indy Punk gets challenged for his case. He loses. (Kennedy did) Its THAT easy to get him out of the picture. So clearly some moron was sitting in creative waiting and wanting to do this with Punk for a while. And THATS the worst part about it. Someone actually thought this would be fun.

The whole gimmick abt MITB is that the winner relies heavily on opportunities, rather than relying on their own strength. Therefore altho' u guys lament that he's a fluke, I think he is SUPPOSED to act somewhat like a fluke. It all depends whether WWE wants to build him up more credibly by winning high profile matches against Cena/JBL/Batista etc. But I'm guessing they'll play out this fluke angle and have him lose the title at the next PPV.

Rob Van Dam was a face and told John Cena when and where he'd be cashing in. He said it'd be extreme rules and it'd be his backyard at the E.C.W. p.p.v.. but the fact is, Cena had the time and ability to get ready for it.

Punk was the first face, to cash in in a heelish manner. And it was the ONLY logical way they could make it believable. (honestly, believable with a scripted product) If Punk would've walked out in the beginning of the show and said.. I'm cashing this in.. he would've lost by the end of the night. So yes, Indy Punk's victory was a major fluke. But he'll either be molded to death into some type of Champion.. or they'll drag Raw down with him, until they give up and toss the strap back on Cena for an "easy fix."

And thats likely what'll happen. They see Punk as a "no lose" situation. If he drags ratings down, all they have to do is toss the title back to Cena and he'll instantly create fan-fare with all the little kiddies who'll flock to buy thousands upon thousands of his crap, because he'll have new crap to sell after becoming Champ again.

Bottomline.. Punk will find his name in the "most forgotten Champions of all time" thread by the end of the year.

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 03:37 AM

This is good shock value, and it makes sense to have the Punk take the title off Edge: that's how you have him cash in MITB without turning him heel. Smart stuff, and it should make for good RAW watching for a couple of weeks as everyone desperately tries to get the title off Punk. My prediction for the man to do it? Jericho, and fairly quickly. With Cade winning the IC title. I don't see Punk's run with the title lasting to Summerslam: hell, I don't even see it lasting until Great American Bash. They do this, and I think ratings will go up, though they will drop drastically if they hang the belt on Punk for any significant length of time.

I'm not even gonna break posts like these down anymore. All of them read the same.

"I'm happy for Punk, and it was great for Raw because it was shocking.. .. .. .. .. but if the title remains on Punk, ratings will drop."

How do you people contridict yourselves so quickly, so much?

The bottomline is, it was great for what it was worth. It was a shocking unbelievable moment, because it was so horrible you're left wondering if it truly happened. I assure you, I'm going to wake up tomorrow and think it was some bad nightmare.. then I'll return to this thread and see 20 more posts to pick apart, all from people saying the same thing as the guy above. Contridicting and all.

I don't care who. And short of it being very fucking soon, I don't care when. But the one thing I do know, and I assure you I do care.. is the Championship needs a new holder, because the current one is already being looked at as shit. Even by his own fans, who admit that it was shocking, yet will ultimately be bad for ratings.

RyRy1114

07-01-2008, 03:47 AM

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 03:56 AM

Man you're angry....i don't think its that bad, but dude don't compare him to delaney cuz thats just retarded. You talk as if punk is the worst wrestler ever but he's not, he's nowhere near it. i don't talk on here much but big will i read your reviews a lot and respect your opinion as a wrestling fan...but you're overdoing it a little, give him a chance and let him get a few weeks into his reign before you call him the worst champion ever because that spot clearly goes to the great kahli.

The difference between The Great Khali and Indy Punk.. is reaction. Khali at least gets one. While I won't deny from time to time Punk has as well, the fact is I'm furious with this decision. Its horrible for them because they're putting all their faith in an unknown.

When Khali was crowned Champion, it was due to lack of options. Even at that, Khali was considered a "dominate" Champion due to his size and power. He might of had the amount of wrestling skills equal to a 2 month old, but he at least got reaction for his size and overall power alone.

Punk can't use his size to get him over, because his size places him in a Cruiserweight ranking. And the guy isn't nearly talented enough to be considered worthy to carry the Raw World Heavyweight Championship. Raw is suppose to be the top show in the entire W.W.E.

Them giving Punk the Championship just slapped John Cena, Mr. Kennedy, M.V.P., Jeff Hardy, Edge, Triple H., Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho and many, many, MANY MORE.. all in the face. While most of the names I listed have had their runs. Some even more than they deserved.. but the fact is, Kennedy, M.V.P. and Jeff Hardy were all more deserving than Indy Punk.

I don't have to give Punk a chance, because he had his opportunity to impress me throughout his entire career thus far. Through my eyes, John Morrison impressed more during Money in the Bank, and was the greater E.C.W. Champion. Now even at that, I definately am not going to say hand Morrison the Championship.

I'm only trying to say.. this was a very bad decision on their part, and for what? All to get a Championship to Raw, without it coming over by Batista or John Cena? So then why not keep Hardy, Kennedy or move M.V.P. to Raw and place one of them in the match with Edge instead of Batista, at the p.p.v.. then have them defeat him there. Instead, they found themselves in a hole that they weren't smart enough to write their way out of.. so they paniced and pressed the MITB button.

RyRy1114

07-01-2008, 04:07 AM

tehblogger

07-01-2008, 04:11 AM

I'm not even gonna break posts like these down anymore. All of them read the same.

"I'm happy for Punk, and it was great for Raw because it was shocking.. .. .. .. .. but if the title remains on Punk, ratings will drop."

How do you people contridict yourselves so quickly, so much?

The bottomline is, it was great for what it was worth. It was a shocking unbelievable moment, because it was so horrible you're left wondering if it truly happened. I assure you, I'm going to wake up tomorrow and think it was some bad nightmare.. then I'll return to this thread and see 20 more posts to pick apart, all from people saying the same thing as the guy above. Contridicting and all.

I don't care who. And short of it being very fucking soon, I don't care when. But the one thing I do know, and I assure you I do care.. is the Championship needs a new holder, because the current one is already being looked at as shit. Even by his own fans, who admit that it was shocking, yet will ultimately be bad for ratings.

Calm down. I am not contradicting myself. I know Punk is shite - I'm no fan. His gimmick is lame and he's bad to watch in the ring, largely due to the fact that he's using an alien moveset. But he's not so bad that they can't afford to hang the belt on him for a couple of weeks. I'd be surprised if it's any longer than that. For a couple of weeks, it will make for interesting RAW viewing, and because Cena is still getting booed, I think Punk's successor will be Jericho. Now how is that contradictory?

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 04:14 AM

Well they fixed the problem and the title is on raw and its with punk. Sure they could've brought over m.v.p to take it but they didn't. They used punk and they must have a reason for using punk even if it was rushed. I can see a great feud with jericho coming out of this seeing how punk won in a way that would've gotten most people boo'd, which is what jericho has been bitchin about with hbk. But more importantly...they changed the landscape of raw. Once the place for established main eventers is now a place full of newcomers that ALL have potential in my eyes, along with guys like cena, batista, kane, y2j, and hbk to help mold them to be the future. Thats just my opinion though.

Your opinion is fine, everyone has the right to their own opinion, but the fact is.. they didn't fix the problem, then just patched over it, and created an even bigger one.

You see, you got it exactly right. Raw is different now, its no longer the top show where all the proven Main Eventers/Heavyweights are. Its the place where Indy Punk, Kofi Kingston, Dibiase & Rhodes are all Champions. (Younger talent)

But you mentioned Punk being capable of having a great feud with Chris Jericho. Well, that'd be well and good.. except for the fact that it would deminish the entire Raw Roster as far as the real Main Eventers in John Cena, Batista, Shawn Michaels and even J.B.L. and Kane are concerned.

Where do they all factor in now? Because a guy like Punk can't honestly go on a winning streak over guys like Cena, Batista and H.B.K. after he spent almost a year losing to guys like Chavo Guerrero, The Miz and William Regal.

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 04:19 AM

Calm down. I am not contradicting myself. I know Punk is shite - I'm no fan. His gimmick is lame and he's bad to watch in the ring, largely due to the fact that he's using an alien moveset. But he's not so bad that they can't afford to hang the belt on him for a couple of weeks. I'd be surprised if it's any longer than that. For a couple of weeks, it will make for interesting RAW viewing, and because Cena is still getting booed, I think Punk's successor will be Jericho. Now how is that contradictory?

That in itself is CONTRADICTING! You just admitted to him being shit, lame and bad to watch in the ring. Then you go on to say.. he isn't so bad that they couldn't put the title on him.

So do you enjoy watching shit wrestlers in the top spots? Because thats what you mainly just said. I'm not being angry over this. I'm not being outrageous over this. I'm pointing out what you're doing, and apparently can't see it.

Punk IS awful. I highly and completely agree. But I disagree fully with your theory on how he could even hold onto the Championship for a couple weeks.

Furthermore, John Cena was getting cheered tonight. Everywhere he goes he'll get a mixed reaction, for the rest of his career because creative kept the title on him for far too long in the beginning. But the fact is, I promise you fans will be begging for Cena to take it back, after two weeks of Punk as Champion.

RyRy1114

07-01-2008, 04:25 AM

He lost to Regal right before Regal was about to get the push of his life and he beat Jericho and Matt Hardy in that same night, so thats two wins this year you haven't given him credit for in two pretty decent matches. He's also beat Morrison a few times this year too. Well all that main event talent will probably be busy. As for all the rest of the main eventers well, Orton will be back soon and i'm sure he'll tangle with Batista or Cena, if Batista doesn't turn heel...which would create a lot more possibilities. But i don't really know whats gonna happen and i'm kinda excited to find out because for the first time in a long time wrestling has me guessing.

psykohurricane

07-01-2008, 04:37 AM

This is for all the people that are CM Punk haters and think he isn'T ready to be a main event player, Give him a chance. Internet wrestling are always talking about how the WWE isn't trying to make new stars and are always relying on the same guys to be in the main event. Guys like Undertaker, HHH, HBk, Edge, John Cena and batista have been main eventing PPV for years now and nothing ever changeand the internet wrestling fans have been talking on how sick they are of seeing these guys main eventing PPV.

So now the wwe give you a new guy to be a main eventer and what do they get from the internet community, C.m Punk isn'T ready to be in the main event, C.m punk sucks, C.M. Punk is boring and he's going to have boring feud with JBL, Cena and company. So basicly what i'm saying is this do those C.M Punk haters, make up your mind already. You want new blood on top of the main event roster and whe the WWE give it to you, you piss all over it for no reason what so ever.

I for want am happy about the turn of event because it took balls to give the belt to C.M Punk and am glad that they took a chance on this guy, now am just curious if he's going to be able to run with this opportunity and make himself a star. Time will tell if C.M. Punk is a main eventer or just another wannabe star.

steven87gill

07-01-2008, 04:39 AM

Dude, I just about marked the fuck out when CM Punk cashed in tonight. I don't care what anyone says, this is the best thing to happen on RAW in years. Why? Simple. Because we didn't see it coming. If Cena or Batista won, you'd all complain. This made tonight one of the best RAWs in a long time, and coming off one of the best PPVs in a long time, I actually think someone in the WWE is smartening the fuck up and doing somthing right!

I know, WWE have dropped the ball so many times over the last 7 or so years that there are now shedloads of cynical internet smarks who are hypercritical and won't be happy whatever happens, but i agree WWE have finally done something shocking and unexpected, good on em' i say.

psykohurricane

07-01-2008, 05:21 AM

Them giving Punk the Championship just slapped John Cena, Mr. Kennedy, M.V.P., Jeff Hardy, Edge, Triple H., Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho and many, many, MANY MORE.. all in the face. While most of the names I listed have had their runs. Some even more than they deserved.. but the fact is, Kennedy, M.V.P. and Jeff Hardy were all more deserving than Indy Punk.

I don't have to give Punk a chance, because he had his opportunity to impress me throughout his entire career thus far. Through my eyes, John Morrison impressed more during Money in the Bank, and was the greater E.C.W. Champion. Now even at that, I definately am not going to say hand Morrison the Championship.

I'm only trying to say.. this was a very bad decision on their part, and for what? All to get a Championship to Raw, without it coming over by Batista or John Cena? So then why not keep Hardy, Kennedy or move M.V.P. to Raw and place one of them in the match with Edge instead of Batista, at the p.p.v.. then have them defeat him there. Instead, they found themselves in a hole that they weren't smart enough to write their way out of.. so they paniced and pressed the MITB button.

Give one good reason, outside the fact to you clearly hate C.M. punk, why having c.m. punk has champion is a slap in the face to every main event and upper mid carder on both roster. O.k. so C.M. punk isn'T the most charismatic guy in the world, so what? casual fans still love him. Sure i doesn't get the type of reaction that a guy like Jeff HArdy is getting but again he's still in the top 10 guy that casual love to watch so why not except the fact that C.M is the champion and if book properly, the guy could be a major player for years to come. Also just another quick question, on the list of wrestler that you name before, how many guys to you see still be in the wwe in five years. Pretty much everybody name on that list except for kennedy and MVP and maybe Cena don't have many years left in there career. HBK is pretty past is prime and i would'nt be surprised if he retires in a couple of years, same goes for HHH, BAtista, Kane, The Undertaker, JBL and maybe jericho and Jeff HArdy so the time is now to create new stars and having C.M. punk win the world title is a step in the right direction in my opinion especially since he's the only young talent on raw that gets a pretty reaction from the crowd. MVP and Kennedy will get there chance eventually on smackdown, so learn to live with it because i don'T see thing changing for the time being.

Kortex

07-01-2008, 05:32 AM

Who cares... Punk is only bringing the title to Raw so Cena can take it from him at the next PPV and changing it to a stupid childish spinner belt!!! Sad but true... I m just wondering who will be the heel... Maybe Punk will since he kind of used the Edges opportunistic angle and will tell fans to shove it for saying he won unfairly.... Anyway, no matter what the draft brough to Raw... things will never change and Cena will still be the boring champ!!!! Cant wait for Orton to come back!!!!

Italian MVP

07-01-2008, 06:19 AM

psykohurricane

07-01-2008, 06:42 AM

I have to agree with Will, horrible choice for a champion. Punk might not be the worst wrestler out there, but he will not bring enough drawing power such as reactions from the crowds and viewers to maintain being a World Champion.

You all say give him a chance and let the young guys have a go, but really what has CM Punk done to be given the World Title? He has lost almost every much he has been in and it hasnt even been to main event guys, its been to Miz, Morrision and Chavo OMG. The point is he has no build up whatsover, he couldnt even lead the ECW brand to anything spectacular, so what chance does he have on the Big Show?

Plus, alot of RAW viewers dont watch ECW, so many of them wont be too fond of Punk and wont know what he has done thus far.

The Ratings are seriously going to go down the toilet, Punk isnt the superstar to maintain ratings as he is very bland and doesnt have an interesting personality. Sure, the rating will go up the next few weeks, but after that people are going to get bored with his boring style of wrestling and character.

The best option would of been get another guy to take the briefcase off Punk and then win the title, such as Kennedy since he was groomed for a push and had momentum on his side. Plus his more established and could have screwed Edge and got revenge from last year, which would of created a great feud.

Sure, give the young guys a go, but in Punks case they needed to buld him up first or at least turn the guy heel his nothing as face and doesnt bring nothing to the table. He wont make viewers wanna keep tuning in week in week out and thats why Cena needs to win the title as soon as possible IMO.

Punk needs mabe 1-2 years at best, develop a character, turn him heel, and change his wrestling style to hold a World Title but i doubt even then he would be the right man for the top job. Just look at him with the title, he is basically a bonified crusiweight holding this big as title, geez its not looking good. And dont give the excuse of Mysterio, he at least was very popular and had Eddie on his side, CM Punk has jack on his side besides his straight lifestyle which is blander than a white wall.

Oh and another thing, its going to look stupid if he beats Cena, Batista, Kane as they are far superior to him and there is a big size difference, its just not going to work. So what the hell is he going to do with his title reign. He aint big enough in every department to beat Cena, Batista or Kane so this Title reign is going to suck big time and thats why it should end before it gets underway.

It was a great shock moment, but thats as far as it got. And it had to be against Edge....Poor Edge deserves much better...

Again let'S look at the facts here, Is c.m. punk popular, yes he is, he'S not as popular as batista, jeff hardy or John cena but the guys get a really good reation from the crowd everytime he goes out there and wrestle.

Does is size matter, not really since he about the same size as such great performers, Eddie Guerrero, Bret HArt, Shawn Micheals, Chris Jericho and chris Benoit and all these guys won a world championship belt at some point in there career even without being the biggest guys on the roster or the more popular one. His style of wrestling is really a factor either because he's one of the best wresler they got on the roster right now and the casual fans actually want somebody that can actually wrestle. His marchandise sales are doing really well right now so you know he going to be a draw as champion just base on that alone. And even is promo are not that bad. So i don'T see what the problem is with him being world champion, especially when your idea was to give the belt to Kennedy a guy that the wwe is just starting to gain the company trust again after the awful year he had last year. So if i had to choose between a guy that can make me money and that i can trust or a man that can make me money but i'm still not sure that i can trust, i would probably pick to safe option and that what C.M. Punk is a safe option.

Y 2 Jake

07-01-2008, 06:52 AM

While I don't think Punk is ready, nor do I think he'll succeed as champion. I'm glad he's got the belt. He's new and different. I don't like the way he won the title. I thought it was very heelish. To beat a downed opponent. But still.

The WHC has for a while been the title that they've taken chances with. Kennedy was supposed to get the title when Undertaker suffered an injury, Mark Henry was supposed to get the title when Batista was injured, Rey Mysterio has held it, as has Khali. You might not agree with some of the champions. But it's a lot less predictable that the WWE title. Even if Punk fails he can chalk it up to experience. I'm sure his second reign will be better. But who knows, this reign might work out.

Italian MVP

07-01-2008, 07:01 AM

Again let'S look at the facts here, Is c.m. punk popular, yes he is, he'S not as popular as batista, jeff hardy or John cena but the guys get a really good reation from the crowd everytime he goes out there and wrestle.

Does is size matter, not really since he about the same size as such great performers, Eddie Guerrero, Bret HArt, Shawn Micheals, Chris Jericho and chris Benoit and all these guys won a world championship belt at some point in there career even without being the biggest guys on the roster or the more popular one. His style of wrestling is really a factor either because he's one of the best wresler they got on the roster right now and the casual fans actually want somebody that can actually wrestle. His marchandise sales are doing really well right now so you know he going to be a draw as champion just base on that alone. And even is promo are not that bad. So i don'T see what the problem is with him being world champion, especially when your idea was to give the belt to Kennedy a guy that the wwe is just starting to gain the company trust again after the awful year he had last year. So if i had to choose between a guy that can make me money and that i can trust or a man that can make me money but i'm still not sure that i can trust, i would probably pick to safe option and that what C.M. Punk is a safe option.

You say Punk can wrestle what have you been watching? He is mediore at best, he is very bland in the ring and i dont see how really his a good wrestler. His average plain and simple, nothing fantastic about him.

As for his pop when he comes out, this is a very cheap pop the one you would usually gain from a face wrestler. Look at Matt Hardy, he gets a crowd reaction much like Punk, but its just on reaction its not really a pop that would rock the roof off. And during his matches, the crowd are not really into it so thats the reaction you really wanna look at not his entrance because anyone can get a reaction.

Sure Punk is a winner with kids with his straight edge gimmick, but i dont recall reading about him doing great merchandise sales and so on, and that really doesnt mean anything. He isnt going to get viewers to watch RAW for the simple fact he hasnt been established as a real competitor and has been on ECW which a small portion of RAW viewers actually watch.

So as for your agument towards Mr Kennedy, he would of been the better option IMO. He was being groomed quite nicely a year ago and again a couple months ago with his feud with Regal and has momentum which Punk did not. Punk had no momentum whats so ever, he was losing so how the hell is he supposed to draw and get the ratings high when he flukes a victory and half of RAW dont really know him.

Kennedy at least had been on RAW and Smackdown for a year each as was pretty regonised as a good heel and he is making a fair transition into a face.

Dont worry you can keep saying, 'oh wait and see you dont know he makes money, he is young' blah blah blah, but you keep an eye out for the ratings not this week or mabye not next week but after that, since he is so bland people are not going to be interested to watch him as he is nothing of a wrestler like you describe him in your above post. Kennedy on the other hand has far superior mic skills and has a fairly interesting character that would be able to keep the viewers intrigued for the most part of his title reign. Plus he has had quality fueds with HBK, Undertaker and had a pretty good short feud with Regal.

Punk is a no no for World Champion and WWE will see that in the upcoming weeks. He wont be champ for long knowing how the WWE dont like crap ratings for too long thus Punk will be replaced by Cena most likely.

Italian MVP

07-01-2008, 07:35 AM

How is he over as you say he is? Where is the biggest pop as Jeff Hardy you are all talking about cause i certainly havent seen it? Even when he won the damn title, the crowd was that loud, when he came out with the briefcase it was a nice little pop, but nothing spectular that your talking about? Show me these pops as big as Hardy's please cause im certainly interested.

And Cm Punk is not as over as you say he is. If he was he would of been of ECW a long time ago, he would be beating Miz and Chavo and not losing every frigen week and he would be fighting for the ECW title not fighting for the tag titles when he was ECW.

Yeh he is over with the fans, but so is every other face. His like Matt Hardy, gets a cheap pop when he comes out then when his wrestles the corwd is dead and dont give two shits about the guy which further proves his wrestling is bland, thus he needs a heel turn. So i got no clue as to what your talking about when you say he gets pops like Jeff Hardy and he is way over.

Miko

07-01-2008, 07:41 AM

so CM Bland is the World Heavyweight Champion, I'll give em' there due its a change, not the change I was looking for but who cares what I think.

A good part about this though is that any number of contenders can take it from him and they dont necessarily have to cheat to do so (see Benoit). My pick (and hope) Chris Jericho.

Sparky

07-01-2008, 07:43 AM

It's amazing how so many of you "experts" think that CM Punk is a terrible choice for World Heavyweight Champion. Almost as amazing as how many of you "experts" think you know what's best for the current product. Seeing we are the one's that are making the WWE so succsesful we do know what's best for the WWE, We are the one's that have to watch it.

When will the Internet community realize that Vince McMahon doesn't give 2 shits what you dumbasses think, and for the most part -- neither do the 20,000+ "morons" who pack the arenas every week. They don't give a fuck whether or not you think Cena sucks because he can't wrestle (well, that's a bad example -- because it's undeniably true). They don't give a fuck whether or not you think Jeff Hardy is a "glorified spot monkey" or that Kennedy doesn't impress you. it's Just a forum buddy everyone can say what they think. It's a place where you can express your feeling's about the WWE when you post here you know you are not going to do anything exept have conversations with other Wrestling Fan's. You're not shareholders -- you're not members of the board of directors, and you certainly aren't part of the shit writing staff (even though most of us could probably write better than Gewiritz).
Who again do Creative Write the stuff for? Yep you guessed it the Fan's.

cM Punk may not be the most charismatic guy on the face of the earth. He may not be the best "in-ring" performer (although he's very good. You just don't get to see it on WWE), and he might not seem to have the "look" -- you know what though? HE'S OVER AS FUCK! The pop he gets is astronomical, matched in recent months only by Jeff Hardy. He must be doing something right... oh yeah, he's selling t-shirts and making people happy. We can't have that now, can we?
How on earth is people going crazy when he first come's out mean they are "Over"? almost everyone that's a face get's that. It's when they go mental with every move they do eg Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair etc. CM Punk isnt ready for the title yet. Maybe in a few year's he might be but not until then.
I guess what I'm really trying to say is: All this opinion dropping as to why CM Punk will suck as champion, just hours after he won the belt is fucking moronic. Fortunately for me, and millions of others -- Vincent Kennedy McMahon doesn't listen to one god damn thing you people say. It's a discussion Forum you discuss what has happend on wrestling. you learn thing's on here you debate. Not everyone think's CM Punk suck's. People are just Stating there own opinion. also do you honestly we care about what you have to say? not once did you say Why CM Punk is worthy of the title.

I think that Cm Punk Isn't ready for the title just yet. There was way more option's, on raw that could of been entertaining. now i am not saying that CM Punk isnt a good wrestler, Im just saying that someone like MR Kennedy or even MVP would of been better of with the title. Cm Punk is still to fresh and even though He Might of Been over on ECW it doesnt mean he can hold his own with the big boy's. This move surprised the hell out of me an while i Can say i dont think this is a good idea it was dam entertaining and unexpected wich is what i thought everyone wanted. at least it wasn't to predictable.

Tastycles

07-01-2008, 07:48 AM

I think this is a good idea. I'm aware that he hasn't been on the biggest winning streak of all time recently, but I think that it was unexpected way of bringing the title back to Raw. I do think he'll lose the title in the next few weeks, either at The Bash or at Summerslam, but Edge's first reign after his MITB win was short, and then he got longer reigns subsequently, and I can see the same thing happening here. I thought the way he won was good as well, getting the guaranteed pop from the crowd of beating the top heel in the company.

To make him a more credible champion, I can see him going over some established heels in the next few weeks, maybe JBL again and Jericho. I hope the JBL match is an indication of this happening. Judging by the look on Batista's face when Punk made his way to the ring, He might also be a heel chasing the championship soon.

FoleyIsGod

07-01-2008, 08:28 AM

Ok, so some of you do not like Punk. Big deal.

Personally, im a huge mark for him from seeing him in Roh. If putting the title on him makes more ROH watch the WWE product and thus raise higher ratings, good for them. They are just doing what every other promotion has done in the past. Hogan jumped ship, despite working a different style to the NWa? He got the title. Kurt Angle. Yep he got the title too. Christian? Oh my god, he got the title too. And so on and so forth

adampate

07-01-2008, 09:16 AM

I thought that it was classic, for edge to lose the title the same way that he won it... In my opinion I thought that it was great.
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing Batista Got Revenge on edge for what he did to him last year and last night Last Year: By Using the MITB to beat him for WHC And Last Night For Cheating to Victory. So Edge Got A taste of his own medicine. I bet edge will get the wwe title from Triple H and probelly get losing it and getting it so they can make triple h a new Ric Flair. Because thats what they are trying to do with Triple H.

benmaney

07-01-2008, 09:28 AM

I'm glad Edge lost the title, hopefully this leads to La Familia breaking up. While there are more deserving people than Punk, i'm glad that they gave him something to do besides job. I hope that he can keep the title until at least Summerslam.

sladetwc

07-01-2008, 09:35 AM

Life with CM Punk as champion will not be as catastrophic as some would like to proclaim. Life with JBL as champion? I would have wanted to pluck my eyeballs out with a grapefruit spoon.

Honestly, for those who are in an uproar for Edge losing his title, when I was watching NOC on Sunday, I kept thinking, "There probably won't be any changes tonight, but next week will be big." And I was SURE that Punk would come out and challenge HHH after his match with Cena. So Punk cashed his MITB in against a heel... isn't that what faces are supposed to do? Why does it matter how it was done? What makes taking advantage of a downed heel less noble than fighting for 15 minutes and then MAYBE coming home with the gold?

In my opinion, MORE faces should take care of business that way. What's good for the goose and all...

So let's just see whether Punk can do anything with the WHC. I truly hope he does, because I do enjoy his wrestling, but I wish to hell he'd go back to the Anaconda Vise because I'm tired of seeing wrestlers get dropped, then while standing, bending down and hitting their faces against Punk's raised knee.

Sheiky_Baby

07-01-2008, 09:37 AM

Good to see that they've rocked the boat with this, quite like CM Punk, an entertaining wrestler and a good up and coming talent.

Think this will signal the much expected Batista heel turn, frustrated that despite the amount of effort he put in an attempt to get the belt off Edge, that it was infact CM Punk who came out WHC in the end up.

Interesting times.

kingrko

07-01-2008, 09:47 AM

There apparently are a lot of people on here that don't like punk, that don't like his ability. Fact is though, he IS World Heavyweight Champion! An excellent feud for him would be Y2J, HBK, Cena, or even Mysterio. (No powerhouse like Batista.) My prediction is that he loses the title quite quickly, and that makes him turn heel to get the title back. (Personally, I don't want him to lose the title, I want to see where WWE goes with this reign.) Or better, he turns heel with the title, which could give him big heat. He could do it by maybe costing Cena or Batista a number one contender's match, or something. All in all, I think this was a good move by WWE and unlike most people I was tired of Edge as champion

Big Beck-ah Roethlisberger

07-01-2008, 09:59 AM

In all honesty, CM Punk bores the crap out of me, but i was shocked when he cashed it in. It made him the opportunist, and it opened up new feuds and possible face/heel changes and it brought up a new main eventer. the reign might not last long but its something new, and its always worth a shot, even though Ratings went up after Punk lost the ECW title, hopefully it'll change, and hopefully WWE keeps this momentum, but i guess this title reign will last until the next ppv or the one after that in a triple threat match.

jbremner2

07-01-2008, 10:06 AM

I don't see what the big problem is here with CM Pink winning the title. For the past few years everyone has been saying the WWE has been going stale, nothing new happens, the same old same old. Now when something new happens its like omg, that seriously shouldnt of hppened. Yes CM Punk has been getting buried, but he wasnt the person that was meant to win the MITB match now was he, becouse Jeff Hardy got suspended Punk won. And you can talk about politics all you want, but Triple H doesnt make the decisions at the end of the day, but Vince is his own man and does what he want. I can see this as the start of a Edge, Triple H feud which i have no doubt that Edge wll win the title.

Back to Punk winning, this is a great surprise. Is CM Punk ready for it, probably not, will he lose the title, probably so. Look at Randy Orton's first run, was he ready for it, probably not but he got it and its made him the top heel he is today. Edge losing isnt the worst thing that can happn, if anything it makes himstill look credible as the person that got the crap beat out of him then lost his belt when he wsnt ready.

I just think this is a great move that the WWE did, and good luck to Punk, he is part of many young wrestlers who are the future of the WWE. Well maybe the future is closer than we allthink, maybe a hard working great talent is somethig the WWE needed to give their title to on Raw. Maybe he will surprise everyone and be a great champion, the underdog that wins, holds the title and becomes a credible champion, i know one thing that i will be watching to see who this plays out.

Jan Vennegor of Hesselink

07-01-2008, 10:11 AM

Who said WWE had become predictable? I never in a million years expected this, to be honest, I forgot that Punk even held the MITB briefcase, I thought they would've waited until he was more over. But I'm glad they didn't, if they'd pushed him into the main event scene beforehand we'd have seen this coming a mile off. This is great, IMO, it shows that WWE now prepared to take chances, they haven't got anything to lose right about now. I think Punk can only get stronger from the position he's in now, he'll be a bonafide main event player for years to come. Which is awesome.

Gifted Music

07-01-2008, 11:05 AM

The simple fact is, Edge has already defeated Indy Punk in a regular match. Punk won via following the ways of Edge himself.. and thats it. Punk was the first "face" to cash in in a heelish fashion, because the guy has been jobbing to everyone for the past year.

Sadly, I predict him to actually go on to defeat Edge in a single's rematch, merely to prove he isn't a fluke Champion. I just hope whoever wrote this shit will get off the crack and realize he very much IS a fluke Champion. Hes currently holding Jeff Hardy's original storyline.

La' Familia isn't crap, its one of the best stables (if not practically the only) in the W.W.E. right now. Vickie Guerrero is one of the best heels in all of the W.W.E. right now, thats how hot her and Edge are in this storyline.

So clearly it makes perfect fucking sense to cost Edge his Main Event Championship :rolleyes: Especially to a guy who was being upstaged by a midget a few weeks ago.

What the hell? Thats about the equal to saying you're the smartest kid with down syndrome. C.M. Punk wasn't the highest rated/most watched Champion E.C.W. had either.. John Morrison was.

Let me give you an example of the pop Punk gets.

4yto_589gYI

Do you hear that amazing pop? NO, you sure as hell don't. Because there was none.. until after he won. At which point everyone in that arena collectively stepped in dog shit.

Yes.. Cena.. anything but Indy Punk. If Cena defeated Triple H., it would build Triple H. v. Edge for the World Championship toward either Summerslam, Survivor Series or Wrestlemania. At which point Edge would continue being exactly what he was.. a very dominate Champion.

Now you have Indy Punk, who'll suddenly make Mark Henry's E.C.W. Championship title defenses seem worth something. Congrats needs to go to the W.W.E., for making E.C.W. not so shitty anymore.

Let me bring some objectivity here... Asfar as who the popular ECW Champion was.. John Morrison's only feud as Champion was CM Punk so the ratings spike had just as much to do with people tuning in to see if CM Punk would finally defeat John Morrison as it did with Morrison being a good Champion. Secondly. this is what people said would never happen. Several years ago before Punk signed with WWE.. "CM Punk would never sign with WWE.. Vince doesn't like him." Or "CM Punk would never be World Champion in WWE.. He's not a Vince McMahon guy and Vince doesn't like Indy wrestlers and their style".. Well now CM Punk is your New World Heavyweight Champion and I couldn't be happier.

Think about it..Who saw it coming? I guarantee you if John Cena or Batista had won it, people would be bitching for weeks that Vince is doing the same old bullshit and feeding the Raw roster to Cena.. Now we have CHANGE! Embrace it.. I think you're being way too hard on him.. Indy Punk? I didn't hear that loud of a pop for anyone on Raw last night except JR and maybe Batista so the pop Punk got is actually good. He definately has the mat skills to succeed. He could definately work the underdog Champion ala Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio. I'd love to see a Punk/Mysterio match or even a CM Punk/Rey Mysterio tag team.. The reign will only last a month or two but it's refreshing that someone other than Triple H, Randy Orton, or John Cena is top dog on Raw.. Honestly I didn't think it'd happen for awhile but i'm glad it did and, while I think Punk could use a bit more seasoning, i'm glad he's the World Heavyweight Champion and ALL of the IWC, most of which are in love with Independant superstars like Punk and Joe, should be aswell.

StInGeR-HBK

07-01-2008, 11:07 AM

Whether you like CM Punk or hate him, WWE is getting exactly what they wanted. Everyone is talking about WWE and Raw and what's gonna happen with the WHC and who's gonna challenge CM Punk. Everyone, including the CM Punk haters, are gonna be watching the show just to see what happens with the Championship and Punk. Me personally, I like Punk and was happy to see him win the WHC! I just hope the creative team doesn't make him look like a nobody like they did with Mysterio when he was champ!

RSM700

07-01-2008, 11:19 AM

You know you just hating when you say Mark Henry will be more entertaining, and I think Mark's deserves a pat on the back belive it or not, he has improved and survived the Mae Young/Sexual Chocolate crap. But this is not about Mark Henry, we all know we rather see Punk wrestle.

And I always thought that something like this would be a good idea. A mid-carder(with main-event potential of course) coming in and winning the title out of nowhere, there's not much shock when a main-eventer win the title, but when someone like Punk wins it's special and unique they should do this every few years really....anyone remember when Bret Hart won his first World Championship?

Mr Wrestlemania

07-01-2008, 12:14 PM

Vince McMahon said it best when he said it was time to shake things up. The last time I recall seeing a world championship change hands on Raw it was when Mankind first won the WWF Title. When I saw that I was shocked. When I saw Punk come down the ramp with a ref, I can easily say...that I marked the hell out. I knew what was happening and I couldn't wait. Though I think they could've made a SICK program with those two, it was nice to see Edge lose the title the way he'd won it before and Raw needed a champ. Congrats to CM Punk!

DeadmanInc.

07-01-2008, 12:21 PM

Ironically, the last time the title changed hands on RAW was when Edge beat RVD and Cena for it.

Anyways, as I've said many times, CM Punk isn't ready to be a World Champion. He is still sloppy in the ring and has absolutely no character whatsoever. He's just going to be a transitional champion for either Cena or (unfortunately) JBL, from the looks of things. WWE did a great job at throwing a curveball out there that no one expected, but to me it just seems like they needed some way to get a World Title back onto RAW. I think they wrote themselves into a corner and realized that there isn't another way to get the belt back on RAW. Batista's match was a "last chance" match and HHH/Cena are now even in their rivalry.

I hope this leads to a Triple H vs Edge feud and HHH better drop the belt to Edge. I really hope this RAW isn't the beginning of Edge's burial.

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 12:32 PM

Give one good reason, outside the fact to you clearly hate C.M. punk, why having c.m. punk has champion is a slap in the face to every main event and upper mid carder on both roster.

1. Hes stale.
2. Hes not as talented.
3. Hes got crap mic skills.
4. He isn't a Main Eventer.
5. He hasn't earned it properly, like others have been trying.

O.k. so C.M. punk isn'T the most charismatic guy in the world

Agreed. Punk has the charisma of a Honey Bee. Hes flying around gold and needs to buzz off.

casual fans still love him.

I'm very much a casual fan, and can assure you I do not love him. I can't even tolerate him.

Sure i doesn't get the type of reaction that a guy like Jeff HArdy is getting

Which is why he doesn't even belong in the spot hes fallen into. The top guys who get reactions deserve the Main Event push.

Did Curt Hennig win the W.W.F. Championship back when he debuted because he was a younger talent? Or did Hulk Hogan, who got the massive reaction, get the Championship? I rest my case.

but again he's still in the top 10 guy that casual love to watch

1. John Cena
2. Triple H.
3. Shawn Michaels
4. The Undertaker
5. Edge
6. Jeff Hardy
7. Randy Orton
8. Mr. Kennedy
9. Chris Jericho
10. M.V.P.
---
11. Kane
12. J.B.L.
13. Big Show

etc, etc, etc.. C.M. Punk may not even be breaking the top 15, and he damn sure isn't breaking the top 10.

so why not except the fact that C.M is the champion and if book properly, the guy could be a major player for years to come.

If C.M. Punk had been booked properly, I wouldn't be losing it right now over this issue. The fact is, Indy Punk fell into this spot. It was Jeff Hardy's and I'm regretting them not just giving Hardy his spot back when he returned. Hell, I'm regretting not wanting Cena Champion.. not a lot, but still.

The fact is, if Indy Punk would've been pushed from the moment he WON Money in the Bank, then maybe he'd be a good Champion, and not just a bump in the road from getting the title off Smackdown and back to Raw.

Also just another quick question, on the list of wrestler that you name before, how many guys to you see still be in the wwe in five years.

1. Jeff Hardy: Questionable. The only reason why Hardy won't still be in the business 5 years from now would be due to personal problems that will create a downfall for him and ban him from the W.W.E.. or injuries.

2. Triple H.: Probable. The guy is the cornerstone of the W.W.E. Again, much like Hardy regarding injury, the only way H.H.H. won't still be in the business is if injuries have ended his career.

3. Chris Jericho: Questionable. He got burnt out in 2005. Whos to say in another 5 years he won't be burnt out again? The one thing that'll remain is the fact that he has the mic skills and talent to remain a definate in the business for as long as he wants though.

4. Batista: Probable. Its only a slight few from the "I.W.C." that bash him for being a bad worker, but the fact is Batista is becoming a cornerstone in the business just like John Cena and Triple H. Batista is the prototype for this generations "Super Heavyweight." No reason to think he'll be gone in 5 years, short of injuries.

As far as the rest, while I agree Shawn Michaels future doesn't look like it could go 5 more years.. the fact that he and Ric Flair are similar leads me to believe H.B.K. could possibly die or have a heart-attack in the ring before he hangs his boots up. He'll have to feel he has no ability left what-so-ever, before he quits.

The Undertaker is likely out the door within two years, but will always be a Legend who could be open to return from time to time, or only at Wrestlemania's.

J.B.L. and Kane will only be gone if their talent runs out. Neither guy has a tremendous amount, but they're both big names in the business, and as such have a role for what its worth.

Pretty much everybody name on that list except for kennedy and MVP and maybe Cena don't have many years left in there career. HBK is pretty past is prime and i would'nt be surprised if he retires in a couple of years, same goes for HHH, BAtista, Kane, The Undertaker, JBL and maybe jericho and Jeff HArdy

I think the point I'm trying to make, that you're trying to over-shadow is the fact that Indy Punk was sling-shot into the Main Event role that guys like M.V.P. and Mr. Kennedy deserved first, because A.) They were remotely there first. (Kennedy was, M.V.P. came in around the same time I think) B.) They've definately grown by leaps and bounds, while Punk has hit the talent-wall.

so the time is now to create new stars and having C.M. punk win the world title is a step in the right direction in my opinion especially since he's the only young talent on raw that gets a pretty reaction from the crowd. MVP and Kennedy will get there chance eventually on smackdown

Thats the whole point I'm making. M.V.P. could've been moved over from Smackdown to Raw. The whole storyline was even set in place for him to take the Championship and jump. M.V.P.'s current storyline is hes unhappy with Vickie Guerrero and Edge with how they're running things. He wants off Smackdown. So why wouldn't it of been perfect for him to take the title, find a "loop-hole" and jump to Raw?

so learn to live with it because i don'T see thing changing for the time being.

You telling me you can't see beyond two weeks? :lmao:

Seriously though. If Punk holds the Championship beyond Summerslam, I'll be downright shocked and sickened. There would have to be a damn good reason.

The only thing I suddenly came up with from last night to today, was that this is all playing into William Regal returning and taking the Championship from Indy Punk. Do I want that to happen? Originally yeah I wanted Regal as Champ.. but now, I could care less.

At this point, I'd mark hard if John Morrison (who is way more deserving) were to jump and defeat Indy Punk. The fact is, Indy Punk is so wrong for the spot that guys like Santino are now being considered FAVORABLE to win the Championship.

While I admit having the open door ability to foresee ANYONE as a top contender, it defeats the purpose of how special the Heavyweight Championship is.. to have it being capable of being won by any random individual, be them at the top or bottom of the card.

Ok, so some of you do not like Punk. Big deal.

Personally, im a huge mark for him from seeing him in Roh. If putting the title on him makes more ROH watch the WWE product and thus raise higher ratings, good for them.

Thats just it, this isn't R.O. fucking H. This is the WORLD Wrestling Entertainment. Not some popcorn stand in the middle of a state somewhere, that is a fricken developmental farm system to groom future stars.

They are just doing what every other promotion has done in the past. Hogan jumped ship, despite working a different style to the NWa? He got the title. Kurt Angle. Yep he got the title too. Christian? Oh my god, he got the title too. And so on and so forth

Making a huge mistake that if they had a true rival, could end up costing them their company. I realize this.

Hulk Hogan had charisma, and the look of a World Heavyweight Champion to jump from N.W.A. to W.W.F.

Kurt Angle is a wrestling machine dammit. How dare you classify Kurt Angle and Indy Punk in the same league. Colin fricken Delaney has more talent than Indy fricken Punk!

Christian was a huge boost for T.N.A.. when he jumped, he suddenly became a big star. Are you seriously trying to tell me Indy Punk just randomly leap frogged John Cena, Shawn Michaels and everyone else on Raw to be the very top guy.. which, as it stands with Raw being the "flagship" that would also make Indy Punk the very best in the company, as a whole. Thats a fricken Joke.

ROHDude

07-01-2008, 12:39 PM

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 12:50 PM

Let me bring some objectivity here... Asfar as who the popular ECW Champion was.. John Morrison's only feud as Champion was CM Punk so the ratings spike had just as much to do with people tuning in to see if CM Punk would finally defeat John Morrison as it did with Morrison being a good Champion.

If thats the case, which I'm about to bust out some knowledge on you.. then why on earth, did the ratings suddenly drop when Indy Punk WON the Championship.. and John Morrison LEFT the Main Event spot?

Hmm.. its not multiple choice, but the answer is crystal clear. Its because John Morrison was who they tuned in to see. That combined with a slight edge to the Chris Benoit tragedy I would assume.

Either way, Indy Punk was sucking the spotlight as quickly as he could from the talent that Morrison has, and the tragedy of the Benoit Family. Punk had absolutely NOTHING to do with the ratings.

And if he did, then again.. please enlighten me as to why they suddenly dropped when he won the title and Morrison left the Main Event picture.

Secondly. this is what people said would never happen. Several years ago before Punk signed with WWE.. "CM Punk would never sign with WWE.. Vince doesn't like him." Or "CM Punk would never be World Champion in WWE.. He's not a Vince McMahon guy and Vince doesn't like Indy wrestlers and their style".. Well now CM Punk is your New World Heavyweight Champion and I couldn't be happier.

I love how people are begging and asking me to give the guy a chance, when everyone who likes him is even refering to him still being an Indy worker. Hes been in the W.W.E. for going on two years. Hes had long enough to apply his trait and become something.. instead, he fell into a spot because the other guy screwed up and got suspended.

Infact, I'm willing to believe William Regal would be where Punk is right now, had HE not gotten suspended. Indy Punk is not deserving, and until he does something to prove to me otherwise.. I won't believe, assume or even attempt to think he could be.

Think about it..Who saw it coming? I guarantee you if John Cena or Batista had won it, people would be bitching for weeks that Vince is doing the same old bullshit and feeding the Raw roster to Cena.. Now we have CHANGE! Embrace it.. I think you're being way too hard on him.. Indy Punk?

The fact is thats just it. I've said it since last night.. the moment was shocking. It was a great moment in the fact that it was shocking and unseeable. It was amazing for that aspect. But in 6 monthes, you start asking people who belonged to that shocking moment.. and they'll randomly start replying with.. "Well, I swore Jeff Hardy had that spot, but I don't remember him there. I.. I don't know, must've been someone though."

The fact is, plain and simple.. Indy Punk wasn't and isn't ready. Now hes either gotta grow up and learn very quickly in the span of a week, or else the W.W.E. will have a massive problem on their hands. And the quick fix will be Cena/Batista suddenly getting the title.

So either way you look at it, the title is likely heading back to the one guy you feel everyone would bitch and complain about.

I didn't hear that loud of a pop for anyone on Raw last night except JR and maybe Batista so the pop Punk got is actually good. He definately has the mat skills to succeed. He could definately work the underdog Champion ala Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio. I'd love to see a Punk/Mysterio match or even a CM Punk/Rey Mysterio tag team.. The reign will only last a month or two but it's refreshing that someone other than Triple H, Randy Orton, or John Cena is top dog on Raw..

You should've just stopped with the part I bolded, because if you heard anything, you weren't watching the same show. I've already explained the aftermath pop.

Of course people are going to cheer for the Championship changing hands. Again, seriously, Colin Delaney could've won the Championship and the fans would've still counted to three along with the official.. and popped huge for a new Champion.

The important pop is the one when he shockingly entered. The entire arena went silent, because they collective looked to each other, pulled out their cell phones and called/texted their loved ones because they thought Armageddon had arrived and they were all about to die.

Honestly I didn't think it'd happen for awhile but i'm glad it did and, while I think Punk could use a bit more seasoning, i'm glad he's the World Heavyweight Champion and ALL of the IWC, most of which are in love with Independant superstars like Punk and Joe, should be aswell.

A bit more seasoning? If the guy was any more plain he'd fricken be rice. The guy needs a lot of work, and the only thing savable about this entire situation could be a heel turn.. Or a possible stable, with Cody Rhodes and Ted Dibiase.

Shocky

07-01-2008, 12:52 PM

World Champion: CM Punk
Intercontinental Champion: Kofi Kingston
Tag Champs: Dibiase & Rhodes

RAW is exciting for once. For the past 3 years its been the same old shit, but look at our champions now. We have fresh young talent. The WWE is actually making an attempt at changing things up and making new stars.

Since 04' the WWE couldn't do anything right. I hated everything they did, because it was boring and predictable with the same people. I for once (since the Wars) can't wait for next Monday night. Now The E is fresh and exciting.

That post pretty much sums up my opinion on the situation. It's amazing that people have complained how bad and predictable the WWE is, yet here we are with those guys as champions on the A Show, not so much predictable anymore.

I for one haven't watched Raw regularly since 2005. In fact, this week and last week was the first time I've watched Raws live in back to back weeks since 2005, and I plan on watching again next week.

This is the WWE I've missed. The risk taking, not giving a shit WWE. It's amazing how much creative has opened up in ONE WEEK without Triple H on the show. Punk is a damn good choice, because it's ballsy.

It seems to me that people don't like Punk as champion out of spite. Their favorite wrestler didn't get the belt, so now they are upset. Punk has worked his ass off and has done it the right way.

John Morrison, Kennedy, Jeff Hardy, and the list of others that have been spewed off, especially those three I mentioned, only can look into the mirror and blame themselves for why they are not champion and CM Punk is.

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 01:01 PM

Punk is a damn good choice, because it's ballsy.

How is he ballsy? His gimmick is that he doesn't do anything. His gimmick is a mirror image of his whole wrestling career and ability.. plain.

It seems to me that people don't like Punk as champion out of spite. Their favorite wrestler didn't get the belt, so now they are upset.

I'll admit first hand I'm downright outraged that Edge had to be the one to lose the Championship. Since Indy Punk won in the fashion he did, while the irony is with me on doing it to Edge.. it was still a very low thing for a face to do, and only makes every wrestling fan who cheered this outcome and booed Edge when he did it.. look like an idiot.

When a face cheats, its fine. When a heel does it, its because he can't win any other way. Please.

At any rate, my point is.. Triple H. should've been the guy to put Punk over. I'm outraged more at the fact that H.H.H. wasn't the guy to allow Punk to gain heel heat off of, as that would've been better.

Punk has worked his ass off and has done it the right way.

Punk fell into his spot. Its been well reported and documented that Indy Punk wasn't even originally suppose to be in MITB, so clearly they just decided to sub him for Hardy.

How is being a sub. giving him the sudden right to say he worked his ass off for the spot? He fell into it. If anything, and yes I'm saying this.. its no different than John Morrison winning the E.C.W. Championship. Morrison fell into that spot, because of a bad situation. Punk is reliving a bad situation.

John Morrison, Kennedy, Jeff Hardy, and the list of others that have been spewed off, especially those three I mentioned, only can look into the mirror and blame themselves for why they are not champion and CM Punk is.

I agree with the three names you've mentioned. All of which did stupid things that Punk is actually against doing, so yes, none of them deserved the spot if you were handing out merit awards. But this is the W.W.E., and you can't tell me that steroid abusers and other illegal drug taking junkies haven't been showcased because of the reaction they get, over W.W.E. trying to do the right thing and punish them by holding them down.

Furthermore, M.V.P. was the most overlooked and forgotten guy. Since dropping the United States Championship to Matt Hardy, hes been on a downward spiral and hasn't been able to pull up. Give M.V.P. Punk's Raw spot, at least then you'll have a guy who not only deserves it because of how hard hes worked.. but you'll have a guy who'll gain a better reaction as well.

rkolegendkiller007

07-01-2008, 01:16 PM

Originonally posted by The one big will
This is a fucking outrage, a travesty of justice. C.M. Punk? Raw Heavyweight Champion? The guy was jobbing to the Tag Team Champions of E.C.W. just a week or two ago, and hes now suddenly the World Heavyweight Champion?

Do you have ANY idea how incredible C.M. Punk just made Mark Henry look as World Champion? Any.. the guy is shit, hes beneath shit, hes horrible and to even allow him to SEE the World Championship is bullshit.

I'm outraged and pissed off bar none because he took it from Edge, the ONE true Champion that meant something in the company. So now what.. Triple H. is the only true dominate Champion. Mark Henry has no opponents that can match him, and Punk needs to figure out how to escape every match he'll ever be in for the rest of his days as Champion.. because the Punk ass bastard couldn't find victory in a game of connect four, if he was playing a blind person.

Just think of how stupid the Great American Bash Main Event would sound. John Cena.. John Bradshaw Layfield.. C.M. Punk. Seriously. People are going to question whether or not hes a new time keeper, because Punk's name just has NO belonging anywhere near the World Heavyweight Championship picture.

just because you are an edgehead doesnt mean that you can always have what you want. i have watched c.m. punk since his ring of honor days and i think he would make a fine champion. did they pull the trigger on it too soon maybe. but storyline wise it makes perfect sense because before raw started it did not have a world title. but now it has one. sorry it came at the expense of your boy but it had to happen. i mean when both champs retained at NoC. this was the only way it could have happened and it make sense. i am sorry that your feelings were hurt. but c.m. punk will be a decent champion in my opinion. and by the way watching edge wrestle latley is like watching old tapes of the nWo because of all the run ins and crap like that.i mean i would actually like to watch a smackdown main event with a CLEAN finish. not one with a la famila run in.but one with a decisive CLEAN finish. i am tired of la famila. and vickie needs to get out of the wheel chair. hasn't she milked that just a lil too long. but then again thats just my opinion.

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 01:34 PM

just because you are an edgehead doesnt mean that you can always have what you want.

Just because I'm a huge fan of Edge doesn't mean I don't understand he won't always hold the Championship. Thats a naive statement on your part, and its the only argument you have for trying to discredit the almost fact-like statements I've been making.

i have watched c.m. punk since his ring of honor days and i think he would make a fine champion.

Here we go again. Thats because Indy Punk was a great INDY Superstar. But this isn't the freaking Indy league. We have pyro, and television production, and crew members with full sets of teeth.

All joking aside, its the plain and simple truth. The guy is a great Indy wrestler, just like Average Joe.. but neither belong anywhere near the Heavyweight Championships of their respective companies.

did they pull the trigger on it too soon maybe.

Yes, the answer is yes. They paniced and didn't know what else to do, because they (like always) don't think about shit ahead of time.

And if this WAS pre-planned for monthes, then they need to fire everyone on creative because if you're telling me Indy Punk was the only option to crown a new Champion and shake things up. Then the W.W.E. was seriously fucked from the get-go.

but storyline wise it makes perfect sense because before raw started it did not have a world title. but now it has one.

The storyline makes sense. Getting a Championship to Raw makes sense. WHO won and gave Raw that Championship is whats throwing up huge :wtf: signals on my end.

sorry it came at the expense of your boy but it had to happen. i mean when both champs retained at NoC. this was the only way it could have happened and it make sense.

Thats where you're wrong. Indy Punk cashed in and defeated Edge, after Edge had already been beaten badly by Batista. (ie. Punk won in heel fashion) So if they wanted to go through the trouble of giving him a fluke victory, then why not put him over the very top guy, in Triple H.?

H.H.H. and Cena destroyed each other, and Punk could've easily came out after Triple H. retained, cracked him in the head with the case (turning heel, rightfully) and won the Championship. Punk then could've showed up on Raw, as the new Champion. And Triple H. could've still held his much wanted victory over Cena.

Furthermore, it would've allowed Triple H. to do what he does best. Chase the Championship on Smackdown.. and allowed Edge to do what he does best. Run away, with the Championship.. on Smackdown.

i am sorry that your feelings were hurt. but c.m. punk will be a decent champion in my opinion.

NO, he won't be. He'll be a fluke Champion and this was a clear-cut indication that the W.W.E. pressed the panic button. I've said it numerous times now, if Punk is still Champion beyond Summerslam, I'll be shocked and amazed.

Punk's only purpose was he was a quick fix to get the Championship back on Raw. The only problem is it created an even bigger problem in the fact that they now can't logically take the title off him, without killing him completely.

So now they have to figure out how to shine shit, to make it look like something other than what it truly is.

and by the way watching edge wrestle latley is like watching old tapes of the nWo because of all the run ins and crap like that.

Hes freaking HEEL! And hes the leader of a stable. What the hell do you expect him to do? Win like a face and defeat the purpose of his character? Have his stable stand in the back playing rock, paper, scissors while watching him on the monitor?

i mean i would actually like to watch a smackdown main event with a CLEAN finish. not one with a la famila run in. i am tired of la famila. and vickie needs to get out of the wheel chair. hasn't she milked that just a lil too long. but then again thats just my opinion.

I fall to understand how Indy Punk winning the Championship is going to create any type of "clean" victory on Smackdown. If anything it just guaranteed even more run-ins and dirty finishes by La' Familia because Edge will be looking to take Triple H's title now.

Also, Vickie doesn't need to get out of the wheel chair. Bob Orton used his broken arm/case for a very long time. Its a gimmick, its something your boy Indy Punk needs to figure out how to find. And fast.

ROHDude

07-01-2008, 02:00 PM

Dude, just stop your bitching. This is why I hate WWE Kool-Aid drinkers. If it wasn't started by the E or has nothing to do with the E you guys never give it a chance. We get it, you don't like Punk. If that's the case don't watch RAW. Ratings have continued to get worse and the WWE is trying to do whatever it takes to get them back up, and this is a risk they are taking.

If you want Punk to give up that belt the best thing to do is not watch, just quit your bitching. I've read like 5 of your posts where you say the same shit over and over again, and your arguements make you come off as an Edgehead who is just pissed off. You're claiming you are stating facts, but your opinion is not fact. Anyone could of pinned Edge last night and you'd be crying right now.

TheOneBigWill

07-01-2008, 02:18 PM

Dude, just stop your bitching.

I have a right to give an opinion. If you can't deal with it, don't read what I write. Or better yet, go live in your R.O.H. fantasy world.. because last time I checked, this was the big leagues.

This is why I hate WWE Kool-Aid drinkers. If it wasn't started by the E or has nothing to do with the E you guys never give it a chance.

For the love of everything. I'm a fan of the shock-value that happened last night. I'm NOT a fan of who it pushed/helped in the process.

Indy Punk (for the who knows amount of times) is NOT worthy of holding the Heavyweight Championship, on the flagship show. To give Punk that title, shoves him above John Cena, Batista, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, Kane and J.B.L. (w/ Orton being injured, its understandable.. however the rest are perfectly fine to have won the title and I promise and guarantee you, Punk is not better than any of them)

We get it, you don't like Punk. If that's the case don't watch RAW.

Why the fuck should I stop watching Raw all because some fluke Indy wrestler won a Championship? So I should just give in and quit watching the overall product that I love, all because you want me to quit complaining? News flash genius.. I have a right to love and dispise whoever I fricken want. So deal with it just the same as you want me to.

Ratings have continued to get worse and the WWE is trying to do whatever it takes to get them back up, and this is a risk they are taking.

Ratings won't improve when you put shit at the top of your show.

W.W.E. is on the right track with the shock-value events. But what they should do now, is either have Punk constantly defending that Championship, to give it the questionable nature of how he could very well lose every match.. or they should take the title off him and put it on someone else, next week.

Either way, I don't see that happening. The fact is, and you along with all the other Punk poppers can't deal with the fact that W.W.E. pressed the panic button on Punk and allowed him to cash in, just so the title could come back to Raw.

Oh wait.. here's something rather funny.. everytime someone's cashed in the MITB case, they've won the title.. and REMAINED ON THE SAME BRAND THE FUCKING TITLE WAS ON!

So since Edge and the World Heavyweight Championship was originally ON Smackdown, Punk should technically be heading to Smackdown.

If you want Punk to give up that belt the best thing to do is not watch, just quit your bitching.

Or, I could keep watching.. continue complaining, and wait until I'm proven right in his massive failure as a Champion. So I could come back to this thread, and all those tons of people I've already replied to.. and say I TOLD YOU SO!

I've read like 5 of your posts where you say the same shit over and over again, and your arguements make you come off as an Edgehead who is just pissed off.

You know what makes me look like a "pissed off Edgehead"? Because I have an Edge signature! Oh noes, hes got an Edge signature, theres no way he could be speaking logically with his hatred of Punk for any other reason that being upset his favorite wrestler got defeated.

Want another reality check? I was assuming Edge would've never won the Championship from Taker in the first place. I was assuming Edge would've lost the Championship in time anyways.

But what I wasn't assuming, was that the W.W.E. would drop to being desperate in allowing Indy Punk to win the fucking Heavyweight Championship.

Anyone could of pinned Edge last night and you'd be crying right now.

Wrong. If Batista would've defeated Edge at Night of Champions.. I'd be upset because one of my favorite wrestlers lost his Championship, but I'd be okay with understanding that it went to someone who's been a proven Champion before and could carry the title on Raw.

Once again, you along with all the other Punk poppers biggest argument and rebuttal against me.. is that since I'm an Edge fan, thats the only reason for my dislike of this issue. When the fact is, thats complete and utter shit.. because you all know this situation is a fluke and have no other way to explain it, so you try tossing my loyalty to liking Edge in my face.

George Michael

07-01-2008, 02:43 PM

Upon further reflection i'm begining to think that CM Punk's title reign may closely mirror that of Y2J.
Both won the big one 2 years into their WWE careers, Y2J in 2001 after debuting in 1999
CM Punk in 2008 after debuting in 2006.
Both won minor heavyweight titles a few months prior to getting the big one, Y2J the WCW title, CM Punk the ECW title.
Both are much smaller than the others in line for a shot at the title, Y2J had The Rock and Austin, CM Punk has Cena and Batista.
If this pattern plays out, maybe Punk will go over Cena and Batista at upcoming pay-per-views (Like Jericho did to The Rock and Austin) before losing the strap to someone inevitable. Jericho lost to Triple H, CM Punk loses to Orton/Taker..?
Then Punk may just struggle for the next 7 years to get back the glory he once had, possibly breaking the record for IC title reigns along the way. How unfortunate..

Slim Pickns

07-01-2008, 02:44 PM

This could get really bad for RAW, fairly quickly. Not only was Punk getting minor pops at best, but now half of those cheering will turn on him now that he's World Champion. That was suppose to have the effect it did when Edge took the belt from Taker, but only five people reacted when Punks music hit. More people cheered when Punk won, but that was more for Edge losing than Punk winning.

This all points to Triple H and Smackdown becoming the face of the company. Which is flat out fucking assine. John Cena was all but set to carry the RAW brand back up towards the 4.0's it was getting two years ago, but I guess HHH needed the rub of being the most dominant person in WWE. Now, RAW is looking closer to ECW than Smackdown. They lost HHH, Jeff Hardy, Umaga, and Kennedy. Thats four guys who accounted for a lot of screen time. Now its Cena and no one to back him up. Luckily, he can draw on his own, they just need to get him front and center. I have no idea how they even thought CM Punk was a better choice. People will come here and say "well its new, its different." New isn't always good. I come into work everyday and do the same thing. I open the gym in the same manner on Monday as I will Tuesday. When I came in today someone had spray painted their gang symbol on our wall. That was a different experience to my morning, but ultimately it was just a bad one.

ROHDude

07-01-2008, 02:56 PM

Slim Pickns

07-01-2008, 03:05 PM

Ok with that last response you proved your an Edgehead and you hate CM Punk. Still your arguements are terrible, and you sound like a big fucking cry baby.

And yes, the thing to do is not watch RAW if you don't like what's going on! Why the fuck do you think they did this?!? No one was watching RAW before. Ratings continued to drop. They'd rise one week, but drop the next 5 weeks. So they needed a change and that's exactly what's going on.

And who cares if this was a panic or not on WWE's part. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Everyone isn't expecting Punk to make it past SS with the title. Hell, I was surprised he made it out of RAW with the title. No one is expecting Punk to have a Cena reign.

Relax dude, this will all be over soon. And you can go back to your bland and boring usual suspects in the Main Event.

Dude, you need to get off the Edgehead crybaby argument. Will is an Edge fan, but he also has a legit argument to make. WWE wanted Edge and HHH to go over last night. The problem being that both are on Smackdown. What Will is saying is that if they wanted Punk as the RAW Champ it would have made more sense for him to beat HHH after HHH just beat Cena. Though I disagree, I think his point is pretty clear.

The problem I have with Punk winning the way he did is 1) it makes RAW look weak by having a mid carder as champion and 2) it makes RAW look really weak by having HHH beat Orton and Cena then having Batista (RAWs to draft pick) fail to win the World Title. RAW then had to resort to stealing the World Title back, after four of their top guys moved to Smackdown.

DerringerEagle

07-01-2008, 03:11 PM

As I said in another post, this is the second time that WWE creative have screwed up with Edge. When he cashed in his first MITB on Cena at New Year's Revolution, the crowd went absolutley ballistic and even though he was a heel, the crowd was chanting for him to win. When he did, the arena became unglued in celebration. Instead of capitilizing on his shock win and new found fame, they took the belt away fromhim 3 weeks later at the Royal Rumble. They had a chance to run with him as a champ and they blew it.

Now, after he has spent the last 4 months building himself into the best heel in recent WWE memory on SD, as a kingpin underhanded champion, they move Triple H to SD and take the belt away from him. They have just undone all the good things Edge did with that brand in one week. Like I suggested, I am sure HHH had something to do with this. He can't have someone else showing him up on his show, face or heel, so he runs to Vince and has Edge put in his place.

gnr_801

07-01-2008, 03:15 PM

Macho Man Andy Savage

07-01-2008, 03:21 PM

Relax dude, this will all be over soon. And you can go back to your bland and boring usual suspects in the Main Event.

I agree. Punk isn't even one of my favorites but Cena and Batista are boring and i rather see Punk than any other raw main eventer right now with the exception of maybe Y2J or HBK take the title.

Davi323

07-01-2008, 03:24 PM

Edge isn't suddenly a mid-carder because he lost to CM Punk, all it means is that he is gonna start feuding with Triple H, probably beat him for the WWE title as Triple H will want some time off when Stephanie delivers their second child, and turn the spinner belt back into the Rated R Superstar belt, where he covered up the WWE Logo with his "R" logo.

Nothing was "taken away" from him, good grief. The belts are simply props. A champion losing the belt isn't usually punishment for anything (barring wellness violations, etc) its just a method to advance storylines. Stop blaming Triple H for everything...Every time anything remotely goes against your favorite wrestler, well, it must be Triple H's fault. Low ratings? Triple H's fault. Your favorite wrestler gets fired? Triple H's fault. Might as well blame Triple H for getting us into Iraq, blame him for gas prices, unemployment, the problems in the mortgage industry, and people getting audited by the IRS.

Edge will be just fine.

Slim Pickns

07-01-2008, 03:30 PM

I cant believe you guys. We all know the WWE needs to start pushing their younger guys, and when they finally do you all guy complain? Incredible. In my opinion, this weeks RAW was one of the best RAW's in a long time, and CM Punk as Champion marks a new exciting era, he's great and he's over HUGE with the crowd. Long Live the Champion!

What show are you watching? Look, I don't hate CM Punk, in fact, I think he has potential. However, I can take the blinders off for a second and realize that he doesn't get any sort of reaction. I love the fact that RAW is trying something new, I really do, but it lost some of its A show stigma when Punk won the belt. I wanted the brands to become equal when HHH moved to Smackdown and Cena stayed on RAW, but after these last two days its apparent WWE wants to make Smackdown the new A show. They could have legitamately built up Punk rather than throwing him the title. With him and Kofi getting titles hotshotted, it makes Smackdown the A show by default. Punk could have gotten a steady push instead of this rush to the title after being jobbed out to the Miz.

ROHDude

07-01-2008, 03:37 PM

Dude, you need to get off the Edgehead crybaby argument. Will is an Edge fan, but he also has a legit argument to make. WWE wanted Edge and HHH to go over last night. The problem being that both are on Smackdown. What Will is saying is that if they wanted Punk as the RAW Champ it would have made more sense for him to beat HHH after HHH just beat Cena. Though I disagree, I think his point is pretty clear.

The problem I have with Punk winning the way he did is 1) it makes RAW look weak by having a mid carder as champion and 2) it makes RAW look really weak by having HHH beat Orton and Cena then having Batista (RAWs to draft pick) fail to win the World Title. RAW then had to resort to stealing the World Title back, after four of their top guys moved to Smackdown.

Batista, Orton, Jericho, Mysterio, & HBK. You're telling me RAW looks weak? Triple H has been burrying talent for years, so him beating Orton & Cena is no big deal, but I can't even count how many titles have been held by those 5 guys throughout there careers, and you're claiming RAW is weak. If RAW looks weak then call me Susie. You'll probably call me that anyway. And Punk was not a midcarder. Winning MITB makes you the #1 Contendor to any World Title. How is that midcard? Sure the E did a bad job building Punk up to this match, but being former ECW champ and the ultimate #1 Contendor I'm sure they didn't consider him just a midcarder.

Batista also got screwed out of his title match, so that doesn't make him look weak. Especially after the ass whooping he gave Edge. Edge looked very fucking weak. I guess you should be pissed.

Slim Pickns

07-01-2008, 03:48 PM

Batista, Orton, Jericho, Mysterio, & HBK. You're telling me RAW looks weak? Triple H has been burrying talent for years, so him beating Orton & Cena is no big deal, but I can't even count how many titles have been held by those 5 guys throughout there careers, and you're claiming RAW is weak. If RAW looks weak then call me Susie. You'll probably call me that anyway. And Punk was not a midcarder. Winning MITB makes you the #1 Contendor to any World Title. How is that midcard? Sure the E did a bad job building Punk up to this match, but being former ECW champ and the ultimate #1 Contendor I'm sure they didn't consider him just a midcarder.

Batista also got screwed out of his title match, so that doesn't make him look weak. Especially after the ass whooping he gave Edge. Edge looked very fucking weak. I guess you should be pissed.

Where do you get this stuff? Now, you're calling me an Edgehead just because I don't like Punk winning the Title. Neither one of us have called you out for being biased toward ROH due to your name or Punk due to your sig and avatar.

RAW looks weak because, Cena has been beaten constantly since his return, Orton was buried again by HHH, Jericho has been nothing since coming back, Mysterio is often injured, and HBK is overrated. Only Batista has momentum right now and his popularity is declining. HHH is now on Smackdown after beating all of RAW's top guys, unless you count Punk.

I'm not doubting the potential of RAW, I'm actually really excited. I don't like however, the fact that it seems like a second rate show already.

Uncle Sam

07-01-2008, 03:57 PM

Time for Sam to enter. Dramatically at that...

And Punk was not a midcarder. Winning MITB makes you the #1 Contendor to any World Title. How is that midcard? Sure the E did a bad job building Punk up to this match, but being former ECW champ and the ultimate #1 Contendor I'm sure they didn't consider him just a midcarder.

The ECW title is almost worth less than a midcard title. It means nothing. It's a worthless belt for a worthless brand. As for MITB, Edge was pretty much a midcarder when he won the WWE title the first time. I mean, he was actually in the midcard that very night against Ric Flair. Punk isn't a midcarer any more, I agree. But he hasn't been elevated seamlessly nor completely. He's dangling dangerously between the upper midcard and the main event. Not good for the world heavyweight champion. And he was very much a midcarder before, despite MITB status. I mean, he lost every other week. Doesn't help his case.

Batista also got screwed out of his title match, so that doesn't make him look weak. Especially after the ass whooping he gave Edge. Edge looked very fucking weak. I guess you should be pissed.

I am.

Anyway, my take on this is a dash of cynicism but a spatter of hope. A mix between Will and Shocky if you will. I'm glad the WWE is trying to be less predictable, and I'm sure it has nothing to do with the recent dip in ratings, but this is all becoming a bit messy because of it. One unorthodox move is followed by another, one which usually contradicts the previous one, leaving a result which is just messy.

I actually don't dislike Punk that much. I also don't like him that much, and think it was a stupid move to have him win the title the pussy's way and defend it the pussy's way. I also would have just preferred it if they kept the belt on Edge. The one thing I do like about Punk is his image. I think the image he represents, of something young, fresh, new yet daring is great. Unfortunately, he finds it very difficult to come off as this in action. Which is precisely why I'm adopting the "wait and see" attitude, despite having my heart crushed. Overall, I am kinda of pleased the WWE is trying something new, even though they're going absolutely fucking mental as they do it.

ROHDude

07-01-2008, 04:03 PM

HBK overrated? I'm not even a fan, but come on what drugs are you on?

Triple H has been fed guys to job for him for years, but no one complained about RAW looking weak then. Just because certain guys may not look strong this moment, doesn't mean they are weak. Those guys are always threats and always will be in the main event.

You also got to remember the WWE is focusing on SD and their move to the new network so it only makes sense to push SD at the moment.

THE Madcap

07-01-2008, 04:03 PM

I can't see Punk holding onto this title long, I really can't. Although last night's RAW was great for shock factor, and I do like the "what's gonna happen next" factor the WWE are putting into their shows these days, but Punk had zero momentum going into the match.
Lets just put things into perspective here... Punk cashed in Hardy's briefcase. Had things been different, Punk would probably still be chasing the ECW championship and Hardy would be cashing in at Summerslam. Punk was a bad choice for Mr MITB because of how far behind he was as a credible challenger to the WHC and WWE titles and he certainly isn't over with the WWE fans. Time to turn him heel to give him any sort of momentum.

IMO there's a big list of people ahead of Punk for the title:

HBK
Edge
Cena (grated teeth)
JBL
Taker
Shelton Benjamin
Batista
Jeff Hardy
Jericho
Orton
Adamle
The Fink
Don West
George Bush

I could go on forever.

ROH Punk Rules, WWE Punk Sucks.

Davi323

07-01-2008, 04:03 PM

All of these wrestlers Triple H has supposedly held back...who are they exactly? There are over 100 WWE Superstars on the main rosters of RAW, Smackdown and ECW. There are three World level titles. Most Wrestlers never get to wear the big belts, and not because they are being held back by Triple H. Its because they never developed enough, they are unreliable workers, aren't devoted to the business, don't have enough charisma, etc. CM Punk cashed in his MITB because the WWE felt it was time for him to do so. Its not because Edge screwed up, its not because Triple H has been conspiring against the Rated R Superstar. People who claim Triple H is the reason everything bad happens in the WWE are unimaginative, and incapable of coming up with new excuses. The Triple H conspiracy angle is played. Its tired, its worn out. Get a new excuse. Edge lost the belt because WWE management felt it was time to change the titles, to take the storylines into new directions, not because Paul Levesque feels the need to bury someone. If Vince McMahon decides something, its gonna take more than his son in law to change his mind. Orton got buried? How can he get buried, when he held the belt for as long as he did? Doesn't Orton's lengthy title reign prove that he WASN'T being buried by Triple H? The blame Triple H for everything excuses are just pathetic. CM Punk won because that's where they are taking the storylines, not because Edge is being buried by another wrestler. Stop looking at it as Edge being punished. He isn't.

danaconda

07-01-2008, 04:23 PM

Punk is a transitional champion, he is the Iron Sheik. He was a way to get a title back to Raw with out ruining a buy rate by giving away a match on TV. It also took away creative stress of what the hell are we going to do with MITB.

While Edge may "look weak" in our eyes, the casual fan will forget about it by the next PPV. Vince rewrites history on a damn near daily basis, the past has never really mattered in the WWE, unless they want it to, it's about the here and now.

I like Punk and I look forward to him getting a little bit of a rub from maybe Cena and JBL.

Since when has doing whats right for the business been considered punishment?

Gifted Music

07-01-2008, 04:40 PM

If thats the case, which I'm about to bust out some knowledge on you.. then why on earth, did the ratings suddenly drop when Indy Punk WON the Championship.. and John Morrison LEFT the Main Event spot?

Hmm.. its not multiple choice, but the answer is crystal clear. Its because John Morrison was who they tuned in to see. That combined with a slight edge to the Chris Benoit tragedy I would assume.

Either way, Indy Punk was sucking the spotlight as quickly as he could from the talent that Morrison has, and the tragedy of the Benoit Family. Punk had absolutely NOTHING to do with the ratings.

And if he did, then again.. please enlighten me as to why they suddenly dropped when he won the title and Morrison left the Main Event picture.

It's quite easy..Level of talent available for him to feud with..As much as I like CM Punk, a CM Punk/Chavo Guerrero feud does not excite me..You put him on SD or Raw where the level of talent is equal, it'd be a different story.. Morrison and Punk were the only two superstars who could pull in decent ratings..When Morrison got suspended, Punk was left with table scraps.

I love how people are begging and asking me to give the guy a chance, when everyone who likes him is even refering to him still being an Indy worker. Hes been in the W.W.E. for going on two years. Hes had long enough to apply his trait and become something.. instead, he fell into a spot because the other guy screwed up and got suspended.

Infact, I'm willing to believe William Regal would be where Punk is right now, had HE not gotten suspended. Indy Punk is not deserving, and until he does something to prove to me otherwise.. I won't believe, assume or even attempt to think he could be.
.

So...You're BLAMING CM Punk for capitalizing on other people's stupid mistakes? It was JEFF HARDY and WILLIAM REGAL who screwed up.. They deserve no sympathy whatsoever.. They had RAW in the palm of their hands and pissed it all away. It's not CM Punk's fault.. He did what any WWE Superstar would've done in his situation, he took the ball and ran with it.

The fact is thats just it. I've said it since last night.. the moment was shocking. It was a great moment in the fact that it was shocking and unseeable. It was amazing for that aspect. But in 6 monthes, you start asking people who belonged to that shocking moment.. and they'll randomly start replying with.. "Well, I swore Jeff Hardy had that spot, but I don't remember him there. I.. I don't know, must've been someone though."

The fact is, plain and simple.. Indy Punk wasn't and isn't ready. Now hes either gotta grow up and learn very quickly in the span of a week, or else the W.W.E. will have a massive problem on their hands. And the quick fix will be Cena/Batista suddenly getting the title.

So either way you look at it, the title is likely heading back to the one guy you feel everyone would bitch and complain about..

Thats what was going to happen regardless...And CM Punk has a following unlike most people..People will still remember CM Punk's title win... Jeff Hardy's pops are more along the lines of John Cena's.. Most of them are women and children.

You should've just stopped with the part I bolded, because if you heard anything, you weren't watching the same show. I've already explained the aftermath pop.

Of course people are going to cheer for the Championship changing hands. Again, seriously, Colin Delaney could've won the Championship and the fans would've still counted to three along with the official.. and popped huge for a new Champion.

The important pop is the one when he shockingly entered. The entire arena went silent, because they collective looked to each other, pulled out their cell phones and called/texted their loved ones because they thought Armageddon had arrived and they were all about to die...

They probly went silent because they didn't know what was going on.. To be honest, I was silent too, but when I saw Punk come out with that referee I marked out. CM Punk Always, ALWAYS gets good pops.. Maybe not as big as Triple H or John Cena but he gets good enough pops.. Its not always about who gets the biggest pop.. If thats the case, we can just give the title to Shad. I'm serious, noone got a real big pop last night.. Not even Cena.. JR did, Batista did when he attacked Edge, but that's about it.. So I don't hold Punk's pop up there too much.

A bit more seasoning? If the guy was any more plain he'd fricken be rice. The guy needs a lot of work, and the only thing savable about this entire situation could be a heel turn.. Or a possible stable, with Cody Rhodes and Ted Dibiase.

He won't turn heel.....Atleast not while he's Champion..I'm still not sold on Cody Rhodes as a main player and I havn't seen enough of Dibiase.. This is a good way to start off RAW...Now they can say, on CM Punk's first night on Raw, he became World Champion. It was surprising, it was refreshing, and i'm looking forward to seeing where it goes.

psykohurricane

07-01-2008, 04:58 PM

1. Hes stale.
2. Hes not as talented.
3. Hes got crap mic skills.
4. He isn't a Main Eventer.
5. He hasn't earned it properly, like others have been trying.

Agreed. Punk has the charisma of a Honey Bee. Hes flying around gold and needs to buzz off.

I'm very much a casual fan, and can assure you I do not love him. I can't even tolerate him.

Which is why he doesn't even belong in the spot hes fallen into. The top guys who get reactions deserve the Main Event push.

Did Curt Hennig win the W.W.F. Championship back when he debuted because he was a younger talent? Or did Hulk Hogan, who got the massive reaction, get the Championship? I rest my case.

1. John Cena
2. Triple H.
3. Shawn Michaels
4. The Undertaker
5. Edge
6. Jeff Hardy
7. Randy Orton
8. Mr. Kennedy
9. Chris Jericho
10. M.V.P.
---
11. Kane
12. J.B.L.
13. Big Show

etc, etc, etc.. C.M. Punk may not even be breaking the top 15, and he damn sure isn't breaking the top 10.

If C.M. Punk had been booked properly, I wouldn't be losing it right now over this issue. The fact is, Indy Punk fell into this spot. It was Jeff Hardy's and I'm regretting them not just giving Hardy his spot back when he returned. Hell, I'm regretting not wanting Cena Champion.. not a lot, but still.

The fact is, if Indy Punk would've been pushed from the moment he WON Money in the Bank, then maybe he'd be a good Champion, and not just a bump in the road from getting the title off Smackdown and back to Raw.

1. Jeff Hardy: Questionable. The only reason why Hardy won't still be in the business 5 years from now would be due to personal problems that will create a downfall for him and ban him from the W.W.E.. or injuries.

2. Triple H.: Probable. The guy is the cornerstone of the W.W.E. Again, much like Hardy regarding injury, the only way H.H.H. won't still be in the business is if injuries have ended his career.

3. Chris Jericho: Questionable. He got burnt out in 2005. Whos to say in another 5 years he won't be burnt out again? The one thing that'll remain is the fact that he has the mic skills and talent to remain a definate in the business for as long as he wants though.

4. Batista: Probable. Its only a slight few from the "I.W.C." that bash him for being a bad worker, but the fact is Batista is becoming a cornerstone in the business just like John Cena and Triple H. Batista is the prototype for this generations "Super Heavyweight." No reason to think he'll be gone in 5 years, short of injuries.

As far as the rest, while I agree Shawn Michaels future doesn't look like it could go 5 more years.. the fact that he and Ric Flair are similar leads me to believe H.B.K. could possibly die or have a heart-attack in the ring before he hangs his boots up. He'll have to feel he has no ability left what-so-ever, before he quits.

The Undertaker is likely out the door within two years, but will always be a Legend who could be open to return from time to time, or only at Wrestlemania's.

J.B.L. and Kane will only be gone if their talent runs out. Neither guy has a tremendous amount, but they're both big names in the business, and as such have a role for what its worth.

I think the point I'm trying to make, that you're trying to over-shadow is the fact that Indy Punk was sling-shot into the Main Event role that guys like M.V.P. and Mr. Kennedy deserved first, because A.) They were remotely there first. (Kennedy was, M.V.P. came in around the same time I think) B.) They've definately grown by leaps and bounds, while Punk has hit the talent-wall.

Thats the whole point I'm making. M.V.P. could've been moved over from Smackdown to Raw. The whole storyline was even set in place for him to take the Championship and jump. M.V.P.'s current storyline is hes unhappy with Vickie Guerrero and Edge with how they're running things. He wants off Smackdown. So why wouldn't it of been perfect for him to take the title, find a "loop-hole" and jump to Raw?

You telling me you can't see beyond two weeks? :lmao:

Seriously though. If Punk holds the Championship beyond Summerslam, I'll be downright shocked and sickened. There would have to be a damn good reason.

The only thing I suddenly came up with from last night to today, was that this is all playing into William Regal returning and taking the Championship from Indy Punk. Do I want that to happen? Originally yeah I wanted Regal as Champ.. but now, I could care less.

At this point, I'd mark hard if John Morrison (who is way more deserving) were to jump and defeat Indy Punk. The fact is, Indy Punk is so wrong for the spot that guys like Santino are now being considered FAVORABLE to win the Championship.

While I admit having the open door ability to foresee ANYONE as a top contender, it defeats the purpose of how special the Heavyweight Championship is.. to have it being capable of being won by any random individual, be them at the top or bottom of the card.

Thats just it, this isn't R.O. fucking H. This is the WORLD Wrestling Entertainment. Not some popcorn stand in the middle of a state somewhere, that is a fricken developmental farm system to groom future stars.

Making a huge mistake that if they had a true rival, could end up costing them their company. I realize this.

Hulk Hogan had charisma, and the look of a World Heavyweight Champion to jump from N.W.A. to W.W.F.

Kurt Angle is a wrestling machine dammit. How dare you classify Kurt Angle and Indy Punk in the same league. Colin fricken Delaney has more talent than Indy fricken Punk!

Christian was a huge boost for T.N.A.. when he jumped, he suddenly became a big star. Are you seriously trying to tell me Indy Punk just randomly leap frogged John Cena, Shawn Michaels and everyone else on Raw to be the very top guy.. which, as it stands with Raw being the "flagship" that would also make Indy Punk the very best in the company, as a whole. Thats a fricken Joke.

First of all if you think that C.M. Punk is stale in the WWE, you having seen Him wrestle in TNA because it was 10 times worst that what he's doing right now. The first time i saw C.M. Punk show up on screen in TNA, i thought this guy will always be a jobber because he had no charisma and didn't a lot of wrestling move in is repertoire and i couldn't care less about him. Then i went to ROH and somehow, Roh must have done something to him because he was such a good wrestler that the WWE decided to sign him to a developpement deal before TNA could sign him. Then he's went through OVW and pretty much became what he is today so don't tell me he doesn'T deserve it.

Another that did really bother me in what you wrote is that you would have prefer having MVP who, since losing the US championship, has become has boring as any other wrestler today or Kenendy a guy who isn'T able to take is foot out of his mouth when doing promotion for the wwe. I don't say that they don'T deserve it but let's face it. Kennedy had his chance twice last year and blew them both, the first time was because of a injury and the second time was because he was suspended and wasn'T able to shut up digging himself into a hold with the media by denying that he was taking drugs. HAs for MVP like i said before the guy is in the same boat as C.M. Punk right now, his character as become boring and i'm sure that most of the fans are as bored as i him because for what i hear, the guy doesn'T get the reaction he was getting a couple of month ago.

I got just two other thing to said about what you wrote. First of all, They did give Hulk Hogan the belt when he first arrive to the WWE because it didn't take 2 month before hogan got the belt and it was simply because of how popular he was. Secondly, if you have read some of the interview that BAtista did recently, you would understand why o saw that BAtista might be retiring really soon. The guys said that he was hoping to be able to get a agent job within the WWE in a couple years so that tell me that the guys is thinking about retiring.

In conclusion i got to say that first of all, everybody that write on this board cannot considered themselves as casual fans because a casual would spend time on the internet writing there opinion on a wrestling board, Secondly as much as i didn't like the way they gave him the belt, i'm glad that they took a risk a gave the ball to c.m punk to run with. If it wasn't for gutsy move like that, HBK wouldn'T be the main event star that he is today, Bret HArt and Eddie Guerrero wouldn'T be hall of famers, and what happened with chris benoit wouldn't be as big of a deal at it was last year. So if i was working for the wwe, i would give c.m. punk 3 months to prove that he can carry the raw brand and after that if that's a complete failure then just give the belt back to Cena anyway i don't see how having c.m punk as champion is would effect the rating, they hadn't have a interesting champion since Edge so fans are use of having a bland champion anyways.

rony31

07-01-2008, 05:24 PM

hahaha I love reading OneBigDouche's criticism on Punk. consistently bitches and moans about his status in the WWE yet he busts a load over shitty Ted Dibiase Jr.'s crappy ass slogan.

plain and simple, what happened last night was AWESOME. it was a big surprise, the way they set it up and played it all out was perfect, just a great segment. I do like Punk, yes I agree's he's gone stale since WM24 and his mic skills need tuning up (then again how often has he worked the mic over the past 3 months?).. he's gonna have to turn it up though now that he's a certified main eventer (at least for the time being). it's hard to be face with the gimmick he has in the WWE since everytime he talks about his straightedge lifestyle it'll sound like he's bragging or something and people might get sick of it, so instead they just choose to have him stay quieter and hope everyone still likes him.

psykohurricane

07-01-2008, 05:46 PM

What show are you watching? Look, I don't hate CM Punk, in fact, I think he has potential. However, I can take the blinders off for a second and realize that he doesn't get any sort of reaction. I love the fact that RAW is trying something new, I really do, but it lost some of its A show stigma when Punk won the belt. I wanted the brands to become equal when HHH moved to Smackdown and Cena stayed on RAW, but after these last two days its apparent WWE wants to make Smackdown the new A show. They could have legitamately built up Punk rather than throwing him the title. With him and Kofi getting titles hotshotted, it makes Smackdown the A show by default. Punk could have gotten a steady push instead of this rush to the title after being jobbed out to the Miz.

First igot to to disagree with you on this, CM punk does get a good reaction from the crowd, sure it'S not the same type of reaction that REy mysterio or Jeff HArdy gets but it'S still better then most of the guys on raw. Secondly, i don'T think that C.M. punk took away the A show stigma that Raw had before he won the title, the A show stigma was gone a long time ago in my opinion and the only reason nobody was seeing it was because HHH was on the show. RAw hasn'T been good for a very long time, When Cena got injured last year and ORton won the belt, he was one of the worst champion ever and pretty much was boring the hell out of people. His feud outside the one with Jeff hardy were'nt that great and you didn'T have the feeling that something big could happen during the show. Last night for the first time in i don't know how long, they've gave us that moment of unknown that has been missing from RAw. So in a way Punk's world title win was a positive for RAw because now people will be tuning in to see if something unexpected will happen. The only problem that i had with last night was how they pretty much were trying to push Punk down are throat. How much time did they spend reminding us the Punk had just won the belt. The showed the replay at less three time plus you had rey mysterio talk about it than you had the little interview with punk and JBL and after that you had cena talk about it. After a while i was thinking that maybe they were trying a little to hard to push this guy and maybe they want him to fail. But i hope that'S not the case because the WWE does need new blood and Punk as earn is due throughout his career to be a world champion in the wwe and he deserve this moment.

ironman1180

07-01-2008, 06:11 PM

First igot to to disagree with you on this, CM punk does get a good reaction from the crowd, sure it'S not the same type of reaction that REy mysterio or Jeff HArdy gets but it'S still better then most of the guys on raw. Secondly, i don'T think that C.M. punk took away the A show stigma that Raw had before he won the title, the A show stigma was gone a long time ago in my opinion and the only reason nobody was seeing it was because HHH was on the show. RAw hasn'T been good for a very long time, When Cena got injured last year and ORton won the belt, he was one of the worst champion ever and pretty much was boring the hell out of people. His feud outside the one with Jeff hardy were'nt that great and you didn'T have the feeling that something big could happen during the show. Last night for the first time in i don't know how long, they've gave us that moment of unknown that has been missing from RAw. So in a way Punk's world title win was a positive for RAw because now people will be tuning in to see if something unexpected will happen. The only problem that i had with last night was how they pretty much were trying to push Punk down are throat. How much time did they spend reminding us the Punk had just won the belt. The showed the replay at less three time plus you had rey mysterio talk about it than you had the little interview with punk and JBL and after that you had cena talk about it. After a while i was thinking that maybe they were trying a little to hard to push this guy and maybe they want him to fail. But i hope that'S not the case because the WWE does need new blood and Punk as earn is due throughout his career to be a world champion in the wwe and he deserve this moment.

I agree. If anything, Punk's win last night HELPED Raw. Maybe not long-term, but definitely short-term. It helps the ratings, which is going to boost morale, because people are finally watching again. It's something NEW. They had the title defended twice on the show for the first time in history, and a guy who's been working his way up the entire time he's been in the company won it. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that.

Crimson Bonez

07-01-2008, 07:51 PM

yes i like the fact that wwe changed it up and got somebody new in the world title scene it was unpredictable, but no i dont like that its cm punk that gets it, there are other wreslters who worked harder IN WWE that diserve that spot that hes in, yes i hear that he was good in ROH, but what has he done in wwe, remember this is the same guy that lost to the miz, a heel, and in this match miz didnt cheat, he aint use no outside interference, has little wreslting experience, and agin i throw in the fact that he is a heel and he cheated not 1 time in the match and punk lost, we are talking about the same guy thats ben jobbing to chavo for how long now just last week maybe 2 weeks ago and now hes the world champ, i dont think hes ready to be in that spot

and for those that say "hes in with the crowd" "hes a crowd favorite", so is hardy, so is kennedy, and MVP is also (i dont mean with the ppl in attendence, since hes booed but hes got what it takes to be world champ) these 3 havfe proven they are ready for the spot, they've earned the chance to be world champ . for those that say he gets a big pop, he gets cheered just like the rest of the faces that arent big fan favs, and last night i saw (i dvr or ti-vo what eva you wana call it raw and impact in case i fall asleep i can watch in morn), but after watching agin he just got a reg cheer, every1 started to cheer more when they realized he came out with a ref and was pointing to the case, they new what was going on that he was cashing in, thats when the pop came in but he gets cheered just like the reg faces

to me hes boring in the ring, he doesnt have good mic skills (which is what alot of ppl are saying you need to be world champ), boring promos, i could go on but you get the point
yes i no that mvp hardy and kennedy are smackdown they could have worked out something to get at least 1 of them bak on raw but what im trying to get at is that there are others above punk new guys that could have easyly got a bigger pop bigger buzz bigger reaction by winning the world titleand who diserve it better than he does, agin i like the fact that its some1 new something different something unpredictable im not complaining just saying that i dont like the fact that punk got the title over others that diserved it

tell me what this guy has done IN WWE that made him diserve that position before others (and you can just do kennedy, punk and mvp since those are the 1s alot are naming)what has he done thats better, left a bigger mark than these 3? that is what id like to no

Shocky

07-01-2008, 08:40 PM

Well the fact of the matter is, the Raw Ratings are in, and the ratings are good news. The first hour did a 3.43 and the second hour jumped a whole point and a half to 3.58, which means that CM Punk is drawing better as champion then Triple H and Randy Orton....

Anyways, that's a good number for the WWE, unlike the verbal backlash you see on here, most people didn't turn out, and in fact, people did indeed stay tuned throughout the night. Again, I still don't see the Harm in the WWE trying something new. In my opinion, it says that the WWE at this point feel that John Cena is bigger then the title and are trying to use the title to make another main eventer, and I have no problem with that

Razz

07-01-2008, 08:45 PM

I didn't watch the PPV yet, but I have a feeling there is a very small but possible chance that CM Punk will cash in his money in the bank very soon. And it could be at Edge's wedding like he teased on some shows before. It's possible he could win and then the belt would be taken to RAW. That would also put Smackdown, La Familia and Vickie/Edges relationship in shambles. Possibly Vickie would be removed as GM and someone unexpected or returning could be put in. I wouldn't mind seeing that but I'm probably dreaming, and maybe CM Punk is not ready for the World title..

I had posted that in the Night Of Champions: Edge vs Batista thread. I guess my thought came true in some form :) I like freshening up things time to time and will have to wait and see how this reflects in the ratings and such. I think CM Punk might have been penned to win a heavyweight title even earlier but was held back due to backstage ego and attitude problems from what is rumored. That would explain all his recent losses piling up. Sort of a test of his character and ego. It will be interesting to see how the top of the card shakes down on Raw now. Will Punk or Cena turn heel (I would like to still see Cena turn heel)? Batista vs Punk? I could see Jericho vs Punk down the line, they had a good match a little while ago on RAW if I remember. I wonder where the Batista/Edge feud goes too since they are on different shows. Will they continue it somehow, will Edge feud with CM Punk somehow? Also you can wonder if this is just a short term deal with him winning the title.

Sunsetrocket

07-01-2008, 08:54 PM

I loved it, and it completely caught me off guard. However, as I've been saying all day, I don't want to see him pushed as a spur of the moment champion. He has the ability to be a huge star in the E, but it depends on how they push him and prior to him winning the belt on Monday, we all know how badly he was pushed after winning MITB. I love this story though. A virtual indy guy for years making it to the top of the top show in the biggest company in the business.

justinsayne

07-01-2008, 09:46 PM

Wow, WWE finally does what people have been saying they need eto do for years now, and push a young talent into the ME, they put the title on some one new, and tried something dare I say somewhat original & different, and now people are bitching about it?!?, whether you like it or not Punk is champ, and Punk becoming champ has both brought the ratings up, and has people talking, as far as people saying that Triple H should have dropped the title last night instead of Edge, you seriously need to think about what you are saying here, I mean how much sense would it have made if a face Triple H had interrupt JR, and run his mouth how no one on RAW can take his title, and then have a face Batista (or Cena) come out and beat the hell out of him, and then have a face Punk cash in his MITB title shot on a face Triple H, yeah that would have made loads of sense:rolleyes:

FromTheSouth

07-01-2008, 11:10 PM

I've settled down a bit now. If you have read my anti-Punk posts, my position is clear. If not, to summarize, I think he's boring and sloppy. Just my opinion.

That being said, the swerve was amazing. And I am willing to give Punk a chance to impress me. Some of his ROH stuff was good. I've even liked a few of his matches in ECW. His reign isn't going to be long, not the first time, so let's see what the kid's got.

Thank you WWE for surprising us. Keep up the good work.

booyakah

07-02-2008, 01:58 AM

Loved that RAW show, it was the best and most unpredictible show for awhile in my opinion.

I like that punk won the title the way he did. I didn't expect it at all. I'd rather see him champ than Batista or Cena. I think the company are doing the right thing in pushing younger talent. Its something different for once.

I also didn't expect John Cena to come back with Cryme tyme and beat up JBL's security. That was great to.

BigShowEatsPizza

07-02-2008, 02:52 AM

The first half hour of RAW was probably one of the best first half hours of RAW we'll ever see. The moment I saw that ref my draw dropped. I mean, the timing was really off for CM Punk's momentum, but just the fact that it happened so suddenly makes it exciting. In fact, it's probably the most exciting thing to happen on RAW in a year or two maybe longer...
To the people that think RAW is lacking good main events... I don't really know what more you could want...
I would love to see Punk feud with so many of the guys on RAW simply because he hasn't already at all. I would love to see a CM Punk vs Y2J feud to start him off as champ. Now that Kane is back on RAW, I'd love to see him turn heel on someone (even CM Punk!) so he could feud with Rey or HBK or especially Cena. Watching Kane chokeslam Cena always puts a smile on my face. If Kane were to turn heel, it would be great to have Taker return to feud with him too. How great would it be to see one last Taker vs Kane feud???

JohnnyWrestledude

07-02-2008, 03:23 AM

Wow! Alot of you guys don't like Punk, I wonder what it is that makes smarks dislike him so much? Sure, maybe he wasn't quite ready to cash in MITB but I do believe he's ready for a good run. Some posters said his ringwork is sloppy? I disagree. His ringwork might not be ME level yet, but the same people that said Punk's not ready also said that Randy Orton doesn't deserve to be there??? Orton and the next generation wrestlers are looking very good to me, seems they've all been trained very well(Especially Ted Dibiase) Dibiase feuding with Punk down the road is something I'd like to see. Sorry, went off topic. Bottom line is that while Punk needs work, he's definitely ready for the big time on Raw...

Uncle Sam

07-02-2008, 03:33 AM

Well the fact of the matter is, the Raw Ratings are in, and the ratings are good news. The first hour did a 3.43 and the second hour jumped a whole point and a half to 3.58, which means that CM Punk is drawing better as champion then Triple H and Randy Orton....

To be fair Shocky, that's like saying one sprinter is faster than the other when one has a humongous wind advantage, if you get what I mean. If you don't: I mean Punk was on Raw the night after two shock victories and pulled off a shock victory himself. The WWE is consciously doing all this to get ratings back up, there's no question, but I think - and I think you'll agree too - that people are tuning in to see the shock champion more than they are to see Punk as champion.

Anyways, that's a good number for the WWE, unlike the verbal backlash you see on here, most people didn't turn out, and in fact, people did indeed stay tuned throughout the night. Again, I still don't see the Harm in the WWE trying something new. In my opinion, it says that the WWE at this point feel that John Cena is bigger then the title and are trying to use the title to make another main eventer, and I have no problem with that

Different is good, and unpredictable is exciting too. However, it doesn't mean we have to like everything we get out of it. It's like, someone goes "I want new ingredients in my sandwiches!" and then gets a steaming turd in his sandwich. I'm not calling Punk a steaming turd, I'm just saying because we wanted something unpredictable, and got something unpredictable, doesn't mean we like what we got. You know what else would have been unpredictable? Executing a young infant on television.

I know you weren't really saying that Shocky, but others had been.

Wow, WWE finally does what people have been saying they need eto do for years now, and push a young talent into the ME, they put the title on some one new, and tried something dare I say somewhat original & different, and now people are bitching about it?!?,

Refer to my "steaming turd" argument. I think it counters this argument pretty well.

whether you like it or not Punk is champ, and Punk becoming champ has both brought the ratings up, and has people talking,

Refer to my "sprinter with humongous wind advantage" argument. I think it counters this argument pretty well.

as far as people saying that Triple H should have dropped the title last night instead of Edge, you seriously need to think about what you are saying here, I mean how much sense would it have made if a face Triple H had interrupt JR, and run his mouth how no one on RAW can take his title, and then have a face Batista (or Cena) come out and beat the hell out of him, and then have a face Punk cash in his MITB title shot on a face Triple H, yeah that would have made loads of sense:rolleyes:

Firstly, yeah, if you were to be retarded and write Triple H as a heel it would make no sense. Thought that was kind of obvious. Far be it for the champion to have a final match on Raw or a final appearance even. Would probably make more sense than SmackDown!'s premier champion showing up at the start of the show. Triple H could have a close match with John Cena or something, then be susceptible to an opportunistic Punk. Only difference then would be Punk being a clear cut heel instead of this whole "What the fuck? He's a face but he needs the heel to get beaten up first before he runs in and pins him?" mess we've got going on.

And before someone starts putting random words in my mouth ("So you're saying Triple H killed the prostitutes on said dates?" is the only way these assumptions could elevate more) I AM NOT BLAMING THIS ON TRIPLE H.

orton_is_god

07-02-2008, 05:36 AM

first of all i totally didnt see this coming punk winning the title tonight was a huge shocker.I like everyone else thought punk was gonna cash in against trips on sunday or at edges wedding but not on monday.

the only problem i have is that i dont think punk or kofi kingston are ready to hold the titles on raw.

punk has been struggling on ecw recently and kingston hasnt beaten anyone but shelton and now jericho everyone else sucks.Kofi beating jericho was an excuse to get the IC title off of Y2J so he could feud with hbk. the IC title has lost its value so whatever.punk winning the WHC was just a way to get a title back on raw.I think vince wanted the WHC on raw and the WWE title on smackdown bc both shows were better when those titles were on their respective shows.but now that shitty spinner belt has to go trips needs to bring back the old title the one jbl wore.it was nice.punk turning heel would be a nice change of pace. but if not i see him dropping it to orton when he returns from his injury.and we could see orton/mysterio orton/kane and orton/batista.some nice feuds could develop from this.plus the WHC looks better on orton than that shitty cena belt did anyway.

Quote-We dont allow John Cenas in the palace of wisdom.

Rusty

07-02-2008, 05:45 AM

I personally love CM Punk as the new World Heavyweight champ. The WWE is clearly becoming more unpredictable and more interesting. This was an absolute shock for me. I expected Punk to cash in at the end of the year or possibly even later than that. But, cashing in now, was definately more unexpected which I think is great.

Since Punk won Money in the Bank, he has lost matches almost every week. I knew the WWE had to be up to something. I didnt believe he was in the doghouse because if he was, he wouldnt have won the MITB match in the first place. So I thought, if the WWE lets Punk lose frequently, when he cashes in, it will come as more of a shock and a 'fluke' win. I was right.

The way he won it was very well done. It made Edge look strong as he was already beaten up by Batista, and was "unable" to wrestle a match against CM Punk. However, I think the WWE championship should be on the flagship brand, Raw, as the title has much more history than the World Heavyweight championship. But nonetheless, I still respect the shock value of this move, and I like Punk as the champ.

People have been complaining over the last few months especially how "we need new main eventers" and "the WWE is boring because of the same old superstars wrestle for the titles e.g Cena, Orton, HHH, Edge, Batista etc". So when the WWE does a great move and basicly instantly turns Punk into a main eventer in 1 fricken night, people bitch about it.

Its almost impossible for some people to compliment the WWE nowadays and I think its sad. I try to think positive as much as possible in regards to WWE. Yet, some people bitch every single week, but still amazingly tune in every single week.

If you bitch about the show, why even bother to watch? O.K, everyone is going to disagree with at least 1 move the WWE makes every week, but the draft really freshed things up, people bitch about the draft, HHH moves to the 2nd important show of the WWE, people bitched, the WWE made a new and young main eventer within 1 night, people bitch. These bitchy people, are the exact same people who wanted the draft, who wanted Triple H off Raw and who wanted new main eventers. Think positive people

Anyways, a great move from the WWE and I hope Punk doesnt get squashed and actually has a decent world title reign.

Mighty NorCal

07-02-2008, 05:50 AM

People are being so fucking dramatic about this :lmao:

Ok, firstly. Edge isnt like dead, or retired, he just lost a fucking match. The same exact way he WON two of his world titles. SO im not sure how fans of his can bitch. Barring his getting shot or some shit, he WILL most likely be a champ again. So calm down.

And sweet goodness. Easssy proof there is no way to satisfy the IWC. Everyone wants to cry and bitch about wanting shockers, but when its not their favorite wrestler involved in the shocker, then we want to shit all over it. Ok, dudes, Punk most likely isnt going to be WHC for a fucking year, if he even keeps it a few months. Shit, its CM PUNK he may fuck around and loose the belt at GAB!! I wasnt even convinced he would keep it past Monday night!!!! So chill the fuck out, and enjoy the ride. Kudos for WWE for giving us a shock.

D-Squared

07-02-2008, 07:49 AM

I really did not see Punk winning the World Title and to be honest i was pretty annoyed.

How does a guy who barely won a match on ECW in his last few weeks there more to the "A Show" and suddenly become World Heavyweight Champion.

I was hoping and wishing for JBL to win the title in the main event but ill give WWE credit for not making Punk a transitional champ - i was really expecting him to lose it but i am willing to give Punk a chance as champ

I do however see him losing it at The Great American Bash in either a triple threat or fatal four way involving Cena, Batista and JBL - i cant see Punk headlining SummerSlam so i think he will lose the title at GAB.

SuperSwanton

07-02-2008, 08:44 AM

How does a guy who barely won a match on ECW in his last few weeks there more to the "A Show" and suddenly become World Heavyweight Champion.

Simple. He cashed in the Money in the Bank briefcase.

Besides it was a big twist and I know Edge was a hard working champ but they had to get RAW a World Title somehow and CM Punk was the only way.

Why would you want JBL who is Terrible to listen to as champ. I thought everyone would rather have Punk with the title. I hope if they do do a triple threat or fatal four with Cena involved that he doesn't win. He had it for a year and if they build Punk as a champ I could see him headlining Summer Slam

MasterDebator

07-02-2008, 09:39 AM

Simple. He cashed in the Money in the Bank briefcase.

Exactly. That is what the point of the MITB briefcase is. No matter who owns it, no matter how many wins or losses the owner has had; at anytime, anyplace, they can cash it in for a title match. CM Punk did what someone with that sort of advantage would do, which is use it...TO HIS ADVANTAGE! Let's face it. Punk has done most of his losing on ECW. No one watches that show. Granted he hasn't been made to look like Cena on Raw or SD, but he hasn't been buried to the point where fans don't buy him as a viable threat in the ring.

I also see the possibility of a Y2J feud with Punk coming out of this down the road. If Jericho sticks to his heel character and continues to preach to crowds and wrestlers about honesty, he can call Punk out on the way he cashed in his briefcase and won his title. As for now, it seems like Cena/JBL are going to be Punk's challengers but down the road, if the WWE keeps the strap on Punk, a Y2J/Punk feud could be in the works.

Uncle Sam

07-02-2008, 09:54 AM

People are being so fucking dramatic about this :lmao:

They are?

Ok, firstly. Edge isnt like dead, or retired, he just lost a fucking match. The same exact way he WON two of his world titles. SO im not sure how fans of his can bitch. Barring his getting shot or some shit, he WILL most likely be a champ again. So calm down.

Did you, like, read only a single post in this thread NorCal? There's been more people pro-Punk than anti-Punk; the vocal majority from what I've seen. If you're going to needlessly generalise, then call the IWC pro-Punk if anything.

And sweet goodness. Easssy proof there is no way to satisfy the IWC.

A few people at best are displeased. And I for one don't blame them. The only person I've seen who is strictly anti-Punk is Will, and his reasoning is sound.

Everyone wants to cry and bitch about wanting shockers, but when its not their favorite wrestler involved in the shocker, then we want to shit all over it.

Again, refer to my "steaming turd sandwich" argument. Doesn't work exactly, but you seem to be talking about posts no one has made anyway.

Exactly. That is what the point of the MITB briefcase is. No matter who owns it, no matter how many wins or losses the owner has had; at anytime, anyplace, they can cash it in for a title match.

You seem to understand it well enough.

CM Punk did what someone with that sort of advantage would do, which is use it...TO HIS ADVANTAGE!

Punk did what a heel would do, and took advantage of a damaged opponent. Just like Edge (WWE's top heel) did. When Angle made his surprise entry on Raw - which has massive similarities to this - he was a face and he won clean. Granted, he couldn't have taken advantage of a damaged opponent, but he won it clean. Rob Van Dam announced a match with a month's notice for Christ's sake. Yet Punk does as Edge does. Ridiculous. Waits for "but you'd complain if Edge was made to look weak." I would, and I'd be right to. What's the right way to have done it? I honestly can't think of one.

Let's face it. Punk has done most of his losing on ECW. No one watches that show.

He's lost a few high profile matches on Raw. King of the Ring ring a bell? And the fact that he lost on the C-show just makes him look weaker.

Granted he hasn't been made to look like Cena on Raw or SD, but he hasn't been buried to the point where fans don't buy him as a viable threat in the ring.

He's been made to not look like a viable threat to main eventers. Capitalizing on such an oppurtunity just made it look worse.

I also see the possibility of a Y2J feud with Punk coming out of this down the road. If Jericho sticks to his heel character and continues to preach to crowds and wrestlers about honesty, he can call Punk out on the way he cashed in his briefcase and won his title. As for now, it seems like Cena/JBL are going to be Punk's challengers but down the road, if the WWE keeps the strap on Punk, a Y2J/Punk feud could be in the works.

I'd enjoy that feud. Although I find Jericho to be overrated, there are certain aspects of him that, should they rub off on Punk, would improve him drastically.

Mighty NorCal

07-02-2008, 10:07 AM

Ive seen plenty of posts over numerous threads that illustrates the over reacting to this, and I was posting in the LD! when the actual event itself happened, so yes, ive seen plenty of posts by numerous people flipping out over this. Ive seen PLENTY more anti "this move" than pro "this move". Punk is in the same camp as Kennedy, as everyone's new favorite to shit on, after being an IWC favorite. And it doesnt really matter HOW MANY people said it, if some are being wildly dramatic over this, then that post was directed at them, and explained why being that way is silly.

Slim Pickns

07-02-2008, 10:08 AM

Well the fact of the matter is, the Raw Ratings are in, and the ratings are good news. The first hour did a 3.43 and the second hour jumped a whole point and a half to 3.58, which means that CM Punk is drawing better as champion then Triple H and Randy Orton....

Anyways, that's a good number for the WWE, unlike the verbal backlash you see on here, most people didn't turn out, and in fact, people did indeed stay tuned throughout the night. Again, I still don't see the Harm in the WWE trying something new. In my opinion, it says that the WWE at this point feel that John Cena is bigger then the title and are trying to use the title to make another main eventer, and I have no problem with that

I agree with you on most, Cena is the biggest star and RAW is finally fresh, but this should have been done the right way. Triple H should have dropped the belt to Cena, then Cena could have put over Punk the way he did RVD. Then RAW would be fresh and have credible challengers. Cena could move on to a feud with Jericho while Punk could take on JBL then eventually HBK. I'm not normally a negative person, but I can't help put seeing RAW's World Champion as the guy who couldn't beat the Miz on ECW less than a month ago.

MasterDebator

07-02-2008, 10:11 AM

You seem to understand it well enough.

Thank you. I act as if I'm breaking new ground.

He's lost a few high profile matches on Raw. King of the Ring ring a bell? And the fact that he lost on the C-show just makes him look weaker.

If you recall, Regal defeated Hornswoggle and an injured Finlay after Punk had to beat Matt Hardy and Chris Jericho to get to the final match. Losing in that fashion hardly makes you look bad. I agree that when you have been losing to the likes of Chavo Guerrero it doesn't exactly leave you looking strong, but he never lost the case. If he didn't have the case it'd be a different story but the case has been there. Fans knew regardless of who he lost to and how many times he lost, he could still end up champ at any given time.

As for complaining over Edge being made to look weak -- yea -- I've been complaining about it too. I enjoy the heel who needs to be saved by his crew every now and then but, I'd like to see Edge go over clean every once in a while. In fact, Edge has been looking weak ever since One Night Stand and probably before that.

He's been made to not look like a viable threat to main eventers. Capitalizing on such an oppurtunity just made it look worse.

Yet the WWE did the right thing in having Cena come out and congratulate him on "taking the advantage" as well as Punk accepting a title match with JBL minutes after he won the belt. He goes on to beat JBL+goons with a little help from Cena/Cryme Time and Punk all of a sudden looks a lot better then he did coming in to Raw Monday night. I'm not ecstatic with the move and I don't need to be shocked every week to enjoy wrestling but I do enjoy fresh champs, fresh challengers, and fresh feuds. Sue me.

Big Beck-ah Roethlisberger

07-02-2008, 10:12 AM

I dont believe the vast majority are pro punk, i believe they are thinkinh positive because it is something new, it is something that shocked millions of people. You can love or hate Punk but its a move that shocked everyone.

Punk wasnt so called "weaker", he held the briefcase which gives him the opportunity to cash it in whenever and where ever, he did what a good and smart heel would do, he became an opportunist.

The WWE has nothing to lose because it was sinking, so why not try something that shocked the hell out of everyone? You never know, it could be the start of something "BIG.

Uncle Sam

07-02-2008, 10:20 AM

Thank you. I act as if I'm breaking new ground.

Indeed.

If you recall, Regal defeated Hornswoggle and an injured Finlay after Punk had to beat Matt Hardy and Chris Jericho to get to the final match. Losing in that fashion hardly makes you look bad.

The fashion in which they got there is hardly as memorable as the final match, is it? Not that it was an incredible match, just that it's the final. The final will always dramatically overshadow the matches that came before it. Not to mention he'd only just got the MITB.

I agree that when you have been losing to the likes of Chavo Guerrero it doesn't exactly leave you looking strong, but he never lost the case. If he didn't have the case it'd be a different story but the case has been there. Fans knew regardless of who he lost to and how many times he lost, he could still end up champ at any given time.

He looks weaker then. He looks worse than Edge. At least Edge wouldn't lose pointlessly. Now it just looks like Punk's an overhyped midcarder who could only be world champion through a fluke. Winning at any given time doesn't make him look dangerous, it makes him look like he needs an unfair advantage.

As for complaining over Edge being made to look weak -- yea -- I've been complaining about it too. I enjoy the heel who needs to be saved by his crew every now and then but, I'd like to see Edge go over clean every once in a while.

He went over clean, or cleaner than he usually does, against Punk not long ago, I believe. I think it was preceding the Rumble.

Yet the WWE did the right thing in having Cena come out and congratulate him on "taking the advantage" as well as Punk accepting a title match with JBL minutes after he won the belt. He goes on to beat JBL+goons with a little help from Cena/Cryme Time and Punk all of a sudden looks a lot better then he did coming in to Raw Monday night.

He looks better, but not a lot better. It's not like JBL's been hot shit since his comeback. He's a past champion, so beating him means something, but right now he's in that same "but is he really a main eventer?" territory as Punk.

I'm not ecstatic with the move and I don't need to be shocked every week to enjoy wrestling but I do enjoy fresh champs, fresh challengers, and fresh feuds. Sue me.

As do I, although I just worry what that surprise has cost, what its expense was. And I've already put in a call to my lawyers.

MasterDebator

07-02-2008, 10:35 AM

The fashion in which they got there is hardly as memorable as the final match, is it? Not that it was an incredible match, just that it's the final. The final will always dramatically overshadow the matches that came before it. Not to mention he'd only just got the MITB.

Agreed, but it was done carefully enough to not make Punk look worse than Regal -- only to look like he lost as a result of his manipulation of the tournament. Either way, it was a loss but it depends on how you look at the KOTR as a whole. He also beat Matt Hardy and a star (overrated maybe) in Jericho to get there.

He looks weaker then. He looks worse than Edge. At least Edge wouldn't lose pointlessly. Now it just looks like Punk's an overhyped midcarder who could only be world champion through a fluke. Winning at any given time doesn't make him look dangerous, it makes him look like he needs an unfair advantage.

And now is his chance to prove that he doesn't need an unfair advantage to be successful. It'd be different if JBL went over him Monday night. Then it would be plausible to say that Punk is nothing without some sort of x-factor that helps his cause. But he was outnumbered at first, got some assistance, and won via pinfall. How he looked coming into Monday night is no longer relevant, and how he looked is certainly debatable since I agree with you, he looked weak. Still, I stand by the fact that as weak as he looked, he still had an edge with that cae. It's now on creative to turn him into a REAL champ who doesn't need the unfair advantage. It also gives potential opponents an "in" by challenging him to beat them and defend the belt without them getting decimated by the likes of Batista before the match.

He looks better, but not a lot better. It's not like JBL's been hot shit since his comeback. He's a past champion, so beating him means something, but right now he's in that same "but is he really a main eventer?" territory as Punk.

I agree. JBL is no Cena. But he is still a credible opponent who won a match at Mania, has battled with arguably the top star on the roster since then, and is coming off of a win. By no means does going over JBL mean nothing.

As do I, although I just worry what that surprise has cost, what its expense was. And I've already put in a call to my lawyers.

We'll find out what the price was. If creative has a decent run in store and if Punk can deliver, it will be looked at differently by the anti-punkers. I find myself in the middle right now, waiting to see what's in store.

mcflyboy

07-02-2008, 12:34 PM

I have no problem with Punk winning. I'm not pro or anti punk personally, but it's a move that made sense. I would change his thrash metal entrance music and he needs a new finisher really really badly, but in the ring he seems to be a solid performer. Honestly, he works really well in the ring, both on offense and defense and you have to respect that he is a good performer.

True, he lost a lot of matches since winning MITB, which I think is the main thing that prompted a lot of naysayers, but so what. It'll give a good opportunity to change how his character is perceived. And if he's a transitional champion, so be it, it still worked for storyline purposes and getting the title back on raw.

RVDgurl

07-02-2008, 12:43 PM

Congrats to Punk! I think that it was a very good choice by the WWE to follow through with his push. For the first time in a while, I was actually shocked by a WWE storyline. I was hoping that Punk would get his push by WM, but I never expected it to happen so quickly. It was a great way for the WWE to prove that they are attempting to shake things up and keep the shows fresh. RAW was in desperate need of some new blood, especially main event guys.

Uncle Sam

07-02-2008, 12:49 PM

Agreed, but it was done carefully enough to not make Punk look worse than Regal -- only to look like he lost as a result of his manipulation of the tournament. Either way, it was a loss but it depends on how you look at the KOTR as a whole. He also beat Matt Hardy and a star (overrated maybe) in Jericho to get there.

The point remains though, that when people look back, they won't see that Punk had the harder road, they'll just see that he lost.

And now is his chance to prove that he doesn't need an unfair advantage to be successful.

Hasn't yet, really.

How he looked coming into Monday night is no longer relevant,

Eh?

and how he looked is certainly debatable since I agree with you, he looked weak.

Which is why I feel it is very much relevant.

Still, I stand by the fact that as weak as he looked, he still had an edge with that cae. It's now on creative to turn him into a REAL champ who doesn't need the unfair advantage. It also gives potential opponents an "in" by challenging him to beat them and defend the belt without them getting decimated by the likes of Batista before the match.

At the very least, it'll be interesting to watch. As long as WWE doesn't fuck it up immediately, which it's been know to do, this should maintain some interest.

I agree. JBL is no Cena. But he is still a credible opponent who won a match at Mania, has battled with arguably the top star on the roster since then, and is coming off of a win. By no means does going over JBL mean nothing.

It doesn't mean a great amount though.

We'll find out what the price was. If creative has a decent run in store and if Punk can deliver, it will be looked at differently by the anti-punkers. I find myself in the middle right now, waiting to see what's in store.

Uh...huh.

RoyHahn

07-02-2008, 01:04 PM

I think the real question is: where do we go from here? Punk is new, whether your like him or not. That makes so many new feuds available. We have seen and will probably continue to see Punk vs. JBL. However, we can also have Punk vs. Cena, Punk vs. Jericho, Punk vs. HBK, Punk vs. Batista, Punk vs. Kane, and so many more. This was a great move in my opinion because it takes away from the same old. We will not see Triple H vs. Orton anymore, or Cena vs. Orton, or anything like that. We have a new main eventer, and I believe that is crucial. Who would have thought when NOC went off the air that CM PUNK would likely be headlining The Great American Bash? Give the guy a chance - this could be exactly what we've been looking for.

MasterDebator

07-02-2008, 01:04 PM

Hasn't yet, really.

Yea. That's what I said. He won the belt over an opponent who was down. Now he has to prove he can beat an opponent in a fair match.

Which is why I feel it is very much relevant.

My point is that what's done is done.

It doesn't mean a great amount though.

Didn't say it meant a great amount.

Uh...huh.

I was referring to your "at what price" argument. I'm trying to say that this is the type of move that should elevate a performer (Punk) by allowing him to have the ball in his court. It's all about hindsight. If he ends up performing well in the ring and on the mic and creative feeds him good opponents in good feuds than I'll jump on board. If Punk falters in popularity for some reason or simply can't take the pressure of being champ on the flagship show, then they'll find someone who can. Also, if creative already plans to have him lose the belt within the next 2-3 months, then we'll know it was just a shock value move with no merit.

ratedmstar

07-02-2008, 05:25 PM

CM PUNK, CM PUNK, CM PUNK! Get used to it cause you're gonna be hearing it a hell of a lot now Punk is champion. CM PUNK has fought his way up from a backyard wrestling federation to be the World Heavyweight Champion and some of you people shit on him and say he isn't good at promos, he's too loose in the ring etc. This is just wrong dudes. CM Punk deserves this, despite what some of you may say about him. In reply to some people saying that he isn't good enough in the ring, why are you watching wrestling cause this guy has double the in ring ability as people like John Cena, JBL, Batista, Randy Orton, and some of his moves are the most hard hitting and believable in the whole of wrestling, just look at his kicks and even the GTS which actually looks like it could inflict serious damage to someone. Punk is also incredibly talented in terms of talking despite WWE not fully exploiting this attribute to its full extent and clearly possesses that special something something extra in terms of charisma that sets him apart. He is clearly one of the most well over of the entire roster despite some of the bizarre booking decisions he has had to endure most likely due to the way he chooses to live not being in line with the beliefs of the good ol' boys in the back. I feel that Punk is going to be given the opportunity to run with the belt and I think the idea that the WWE wants to build around him is that everyone is expecting the belt to be given to a 'bigger' star, but it won't be and every title defence will be a draw because people won't be able to help themselves but to tune in due to their desire for him to retain, despite believing in the back of their mind that he won't be allowed to win against more established stars, when in fact he actually will, at the same time helping to carve his name out as a star who confounds the critics by going against the grain and achieving the unachievable which is in keeping with his mantra on life. I feel that the WWE have taken elevating Punk to his new status very seriously and this is not simply a quick fix, as can be referenced by the poster for the great american bash that features Punk alongside Cena Edge Batista HHH and HBK that was circulated over a month ago, and they truely believe that he is someone they can rely on for the future due to A) His lifestyle and B) His love for the business, someone who despite lacking the physique and raw power of Cena etc. has the individuality, charisma and ability to succeed.

twistoffate_113

07-02-2008, 05:33 PM

i was relly shocked to see him winning the match i never new they would push him now i thought to bring a title back to raw they would have triple h and edge have a unification match or the losers belt goes to the other show type of stipulation

Bunnytracks

07-03-2008, 05:20 AM

Bitch Bitch Bitch!

While I'm not CM Punk's biggest fan, I do kind of like him, not completly over on him though so I think that puts me in a good position to judge without a bias so heres my take on it.

Many are arguing that he had the "Unfair Advantage" seeing as how Batista beat the shit out of Edge before Punk cashed in his MITB briefcase. I look at that as Edge getting a taste of his own medicine for once, and being the piece of shit that Edge's character is, I thought it was a brilliant move from the creative team to go through with! Karma made Edge his bitch and pimped him out! Nice ;)

Also many are arguing about how many times Punk has been defeated by other oppenents, Miz being one of the most reinforced past victors over Punk. I'm going to say this once...QUIT MARKING OUT! These matches are predetermined beforehand by the bookers, so that throws out that argument against him. The fact that he has laid down for others works in his favor and shows he is a cooperative talent unlike some others in the back! That is where respect starts, IMHO.

I also think his straight edge lifestyle may be another reason for his push, as Vince won't have to worry about having him drop the belt while Punk gets this push due to them using illegal substances. With Jeff Hardy and William Regal both fucking up in the past it's probably made Vince a little paranoid about who should get the next big push so maybe he is going with the safer candidate in Punk, honestly can you blame him for that? So that takes care of the "Easy Route" argument against him as well. He isn't popping pain killers and infusing himself with roids as some others have in the past, or in other words, he is man enough to not to puss out from the pain or feel insignificant about his size.

And finally, someone had to bring a belt over to RAW and since everyone above the age of 12 would have pissed and moaned had it been Batista or Cena, they decided to shake things up a bit by having Punk bring over the WHC.

I do think there are other candidates for the belt who are more qualified, but lets face it, he wasn't the worst decision, in fact I'd place him in the top 10 for a championship reign. I say let this dog have his day and just chill the fuck out people.

He is unique, non-traditional, and fresh. That's what the WWE needs now more than anything!

That's all I have to say for now!

Take Care

klemsin66

07-03-2008, 12:53 PM

HOW BOUT THAT FOR A PUSH HUH HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT.... I hate that CM Punk is the champion. Do I agree with it? Yes...way to switch things up...nice curveball if you will. It also goes to show you how much they think of the WHC title. ALSO ONCE AGAIN HHH SCREWS ANOTHER WRESTLER..EDGE THIS TIME MUCH LIKE RANDY ORTON....hmmm

kingrko

07-03-2008, 02:04 PM

Now, I'm not a huge Punk fan, but it seems to me that the WWE was going for shock-value more than anything. Shock-value is normally followed by the question on whether he can keep the title? Naturally people want this question answered, so they tune into Raw to find out. It's been mentioned a couple of times and I agree with it. Punk will need to defend and retain the title against an array of popular opponents that fans are sure he will lose to. The way I see it, that may be the only way Punk will really make a positive impact oin ratings. Or maybe a heel turn would work, since two of the top title contenders are currently face. (Cena and Batista.) Also, I don't care what people say, Punk as champion DOES makes things interesting! We'll have fueds we've never seen before, and for one of the World Title's to boot! Punk's got the ball in his court, so let's watch and see if he can score.

you internet fans make me sick, enjoy the moment ........rejuvenation...finally young talent is being showcased.
dont get mad at punk for going over edge, we will be entertained with a great edge HHH feud in no time
has anyone realized Samoa Joe and CM Punk are both world champions at the same time...the future has finally arrived
enjoy the moment internet fans, two of the biggest guys to leave the indies are kings of there companies

Internet fans make you sick huh.... THEN WHY THE HELL ARE YOU ON THE INTERNET READING THESE FORUMS!

Also, I don't know about the future arriving, because I can't see Punk actually carrying Raw for a LONG time to actually make people say that the future is arriving. Unless you mean that Punk's reign (I don't give a damn about Joe's reign.) is a sign for what's to come in WWE for talents such as Kennedy and Jeff Hardy, but whatever....

I've said it before, just give Punk a decent reign to prove himself on the brand where he has decent opponents. A long reign? I seriously doubt that.

Also I wouldn't say Punk is King. (HHH has the WWE Title) And skillwise Joe definitely isn't King. (Kurt Angle, need I say anything more?)

valon10

07-03-2008, 03:22 PM

Punk,as World Champion got to be one of the dumbest things they did.It is not a smart move because he isn't ready to be World Champion.How do you come from winning the ECW Title to winning the World Title?It's ironic that Edge lost the World title the same way he win it by screwing The Undertaker out of the World Title when Edge cashed Money in the bank like Punk just did.But,let me get something straight here Edge is a better champion then CM Punk.Ask yourself this question what does CM Punk have that Edge doesn't? Edge got mic skills,and he is great at wrestling in the ring.Let's just get to the point here, I would have someone else other then CM Punk win the World title like Shawn Michaels,Batista,JBL,or Randy Orton when he comes back from his injury.Don't get me wrong CM Punk isn't that bad but,it's way to soon to give him the World Title because he needs to improve his wrestling skills,and mic skills.

TheTruNoLimit

07-03-2008, 03:27 PM

Honestly, I'm not exactly sure how much I think of CM Punk as a Heavyweight Champion on the Raw brand, since that's what WWE pushes as the "A" show. Punk was champion on the "C" show on ECW and I thought could've made an interesting choice for champion on the "B" show, Smackdown!. But, regardless, it's REFRESHING to see CM Punk as champion because it's NEW.

I am glad that HHH is on Smackdown! because that'll freshen things up, because there was only so many combinations of HHH, Cena, and Orton that I could take at this point.

That being said, Raw is stacked with main eventers, so there's plenty of options for Punk.

Also, I hope this can go a little bit, because I'm tired of the likes of Cena and Batista being in every main event.

As is, I think he's a transitional champion. The money in the bank was used to bring a title to Raw, which was convenient and I think he'll probably lose it at his first PPV defense, whoever he defends against at the Bash.

JBL and Cena have stepped up to challenge Punk. I'm sure WWE will find a way to get Batista involved. If that's the case, Kane should probably be involved since he just lost his title and it seems weird that Kane goes from being champion of a brand, to the next getting involved with Jamie Noble.

Maybe a Fatal 4 Way?

Either way, this is the WWE, and Punk won't last against the likes of Cena.

Punk,as World Champion got to be one of the dumbest things they did.It is not a smart move because he isn't ready to be World Champion.How do you come from winning the ECW Title to winning the World Title?

Come on, that's not entirely fair. If Kane went from being ECW Champion to World Champion would you use the same argument? If the Big Show did it, would you use that argument? Punk being not ready could be a fair argument, but him being not ready has nothing to do with him holding the ECW gold in the past.

Frank the Frowner

07-03-2008, 03:55 PM

Raw's overrun did a 4.12, which of course was during the main event of Punk vs. JBL. I don't know what the overruns usually are, but I think this is the first time they've even come close to hitting a 4.0 in quite some time. Also, ECW's rating was up this week as well... maybe due to the fact that Punk winning the title has created some interest in the WWE product yet again, as a whole, or maybe they thought Punk would make one last ECW appearance.

If ratings continue on an upward trend, this could mean big things for Punk as far as his reign goes. The WWE has shaken things up big time in the last couple of weeks, and for the first time in forever, I can't wait to watch Raw Monday night. I'm sure a lot of people share my sentiment. Hopefully this is a sign that people are sick of the same programs in the main event, and it's time to start really building stars. They're off to a good start on Raw with Punk and Kofi, at least.

rkolegendkiller007

07-03-2008, 04:12 PM

Karma is a bitch she is an evil bitch and edge found out the hard way lol i personally think that C.M. Punk will be a fine champion i just hope that they give him a decent regin. and to make a point about it being shocking. my girlfriend who doesnt even really watch wrestling that much was calling me and telling me about it. and then she was telling her co workers about it. so it has people talking. now if the wwe doesnt screw it up . C.M. Punk as the world champion could be a very very good thing.

GeorgeM01

07-03-2008, 09:07 PM

CM Punk beat edge at his own game lol. He is one of the best athletes the WWE has to offer. I am glad he actually can now be a statistic as one of the World heavyweight champions. and he did it in style lol.

phat_inallthegoodplaces

07-03-2008, 09:29 PM

i can understand the arguemants against punk stating that he went from ecw champ to WH champ is too much. it does seem that they should of let him try for the mid card titles first. i mean, how do you think wrestlers like jericho (back when he was face) would feel. jericho's had so many titles, but not a shot for wwe or whc in a long time. (i'm actually not entirely sure if he's even had one before...).
on the other hand, i think this is one of the best ideas wwe has had in a long time. punk's got the skill, he just needs a few tweaks. people complaining about his in ring messes, yet batista is 4 time whc. i think they'll let him have a decent run and let him surprise us all by getting a big win on his own over someone like cena or whoever. raw's full of talent now, both young and old. and for some reason, i can't see anyone with a pepsi logo on their arm as a heel...

TheOneBigWill

07-03-2008, 10:00 PM

Ok with that last response you proved your an Edgehead and you hate CM Punk.

So by this logic you're an Indy Punk fan, and you're running your mouth to defend your hero? Which also means you're too blinded to understand and see how absolutely horrible he is.

Still your arguements are terrible, and you sound like a big fucking cry baby.

And you're now borderline flaming me, all because you can't deal with someone's opinion, all because they dislike Indy Punk? Nice.

Oh, and before you even think it.. I'm fine with people liking Punk, I just disagree with it.. and I'll debate it, which I'm entitled to do. As you're entitled to try and prove my theories wrong. However all I've seen you do thus far is cry that because I'm an Edge fan, that I couldn't possibly have an opinion because its biased.. yet you have Indy Punk plastered all over your profile.. so how can you claim to rebuttal with an opinion that isn't just as biased?

And yes, the thing to do is not watch RAW if you don't like what's going on! Why the fuck do you think they did this?!? No one was watching RAW before. Ratings continued to drop. They'd rise one week, but drop the next 5 weeks. So they needed a change and that's exactly what's going on.

Again, I'm NOT disagreeing with how they pulled out the shock-value storylines. I'm disagreeing with how they felt they had no choice but to put Indy Punk in the Main Event spot. Even if only for a couple weeks, or a month.

My point is, how hard would it have been to place Jeff Hardy, or Mr. Kennedy in that spot? And don't give me that "they're on different brands" crap, because the Championship was on a different brand.. and thus far it hasn't been explained why Punk won a SD title, yet didn't go to SD with it.. like all the other MITB winners had to do.

So clearly, at least for now, no explanation has been made.. which makes it look even worse. It shows that they aren't trying or even wanting to explain proper storylines, they just want to do anything they can to get out of the spot they're in.. by rushing. And what happens when you rush? You FAIL.

And who cares if this was a panic or not on WWE's part. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Everyone isn't expecting Punk to make it past SS with the title. Hell, I was surprised he made it out of RAW with the title. No one is expecting Punk to have a Cena reign.

I just explained that it was rushed, and when you rush you fail, you fall. When you rush it means you don't plan things properly, and you start forgetting to fill gaps. Such as explaining how the title is now on Raw, when in the past every MITB winner never brought the newly won Championship to their brand, but instead they switched brands to where the title was.

All of this just screams "last second panic attack decision."

Furthermore, you.. from what I can tell the biggest Indy Punk fan on this forum.. and the biggest whiner on his behalf, didn't even think he could win the Championship. So why should "I" think he deserves the Championship, when his own loyal fans don't?

Relax dude, this will all be over soon. And you can go back to your bland and boring usual suspects in the Main Event.

This ending quote doesn't even deserve a reply, because you're being idiotic. You're trying to say that W.W.E. is only unique, and "fun" now because Punk won.

The fact is, if Hardy, Kennedy, M.V.P., or even Mysterio could've went out there and won.. it would've been a "what the fuck" type of thing.. and it would've drew an even bigger response from the fans, including me, because all of them.. unlike Indy Punk, deserves the title.

mattg0728

07-03-2008, 10:25 PM

rony31

07-03-2008, 10:29 PM

Will, you need to relax bud, not the end of the world. plain and simple, Punk cashing in and winning solved a LOT of problems for the WWE:

-Jeff Hardy fucked up, that put the MITB in chaos, nobody seemed to know what to do with Punk, now that's out of the way.
-RAW has a title.
-Paves the way for a Batista heel turn (possibly the first time in history someone's done so just by staring another guy down, like he did to Punk on the ramp).

yes, it came out of nowhere, but they had to do it given the situation. his reign will most likely last no longer than the Great American Bash anyway.

TheOneBigWill

07-03-2008, 10:35 PM

I like the fact that Punk is champion on RAW, but all the interesting matchups for him are now on SD! Punk-J. Hardy, Punk-Kennedy, Punk-Umaga could all have been great matchups. Now we'll see him vs Cena, JBL and Batista. His style would go well with the current SD! roster. But a Punk vs Mysterio feud could be interesting.

This is exactly what I've been trying to get at. Indy Punk as a Champion over Smackdown would've been believable. Shit, let him keep Edge's World Heavyweight Championship for all I care, just trade him over to Smackdown where outside of Triple H. and the Big Show, Punk has half a chance to get off some half-way decent matches against the likes of Jeff Hardy, Shelton Benjamin, Mr. Kennedy and M.V.P.

Now the only thing thats funny about that.. is this. Within that, Punk against those guys.. its Midcard level matches. Punk and Benjamin, for example.. who'd wanna pay $50.00 for an HD p.p.v., thats headlined by that shit?

So instead however, you'll have John Cena v. Indy Punk. Or Batista, J.B.L., Kane or any of those bigger guys.. against Indy Punk.. again, who'd want to pay $50.00 in HD, to see that p.p.v.? The rest of the card better be so impressive, that it overshadows Punk as Champion.

Infact, I'm gonna go out on a limb right now and say that regardless of Punk's World Championship match for the Great American Bash.. it'll be Triple H. having the bigger title match. Mark my words, whether its against the Big Show, Mr. Kennedy, M.V.P., or even Edge. (I can only hope)

Congrats. Punk is going to allow Raw to open the p.p.v., defending the World Heavyweight Championship.. because whatever match he gets put in, short of being a rematch against Edge, is guaranteed to be nothing above being opening card material. Punk is a card opener.. not a card closer.

TheOneBigWill

07-03-2008, 10:47 PM

Will, you need to relax bud, not the end of the world. plain and simple, Punk cashing in and winning solved a LOT of problems for the WWE:

It didn't solve as many issues as it created though. Thats the irony. Everyone sees this as a problem solving resolution, when in fact is a problem making disaster.

-Jeff Hardy fucked up, that put the MITB in chaos, nobody seemed to know what to do with Punk, now that's out of the way.

Jeff Hardy did indeed screw up, so I'm perfectly fine with him not getting the spot. However you just said it yourself. Noone knew quite what to do with Indy Punk, for the simply reason that he isn't the type of person you can just easily mold and work with.

You can't just slap him anywhere, hes very limited and only capable of so many things. Main Eventing on the "Flagship Show" isn't one of them.

-RAW has a title.

With a huge controvery surrounding it. That is whats pulling in any type of ratings. I guarantee you it isn't the title holder, its the controvery surrounding why the title came to Raw.

Every other MITB holder cashed in and switched brands. They didn't bring the Championship back to their brand with them. Now I'm going to be honest, this would be rather easy to explain if they did so.. but I'm willing to believe they won't.

They could easily say since Edge was on their show, he was vunrable to losing his Championship to their show. However if they don't explain the situation, then it'll just be assumed with a paniced ending.. much like how they completely destroyed the entire Kane storyline.

They wanted the mask off Kane so bad in 2003, but had no clue how to explain the story of why he didn't have scars. So then they came up with some half assed excuse that he wore a wig, and it was all mental. YET, at Summerslam 2000, when Undertaker pulled Kane's mask off.. he had a full head of hair, that covered his face to mask his identity. They never bothered explaining that, or even trying to.. because it was a "gap" in their "flawed and paniced" storyline.

Punk as Champion will be flawed, paniced and end just as horribly as it began.

-Paves the way for a Batista heel turn (possibly the first time in history someone's done so just by staring another guy down, like he did to Punk on the ramp).

Batista could've easily turned heel by siding with Jericho, against Shawn Michaels. Staring an Indy star down on a rampway wasn't a heel turning opportunity.. it was Batista realizing the W.W.E. lost their fucking mind.

I guarantee you he was remembering when The Great Khali won the World Heavyweight title.. thought that this moment was going to be as horrible as that moment.. then remembered HE was the guy who won the title in the end.. so hes likely licking his chops thinking he could be Champion again, very soon.

yes, it came out of nowhere, but they had to do it given the situation. his reign will most likely last no longer than the Great American Bash anyway.

Thats just it.. people are being naive about this. Everyone is saying "They had to do it." Why'd they have to do it? Why with Punk? Because he was holding a Championship case? Because Raw didn't have a Championship?

Are you telling me, Punk was their only answer to righting the wrong they'd done before all the planning of the draft? Then why even draft two World Championships to the same brand?

I'll tell you why. Because they wanted to shock people by making a bold decision, then they realized they didn't have a plan to get the Championship BACK so they had to make another bold decision in letting Indy Punk win a title he'll likely lose within two monthes.

justinsayne

07-03-2008, 11:16 PM

TheOneBigWill

07-03-2008, 11:37 PM

You all need to stop trying to convince Will that this isn't as bad as he's making it out, he's hell bent on making this out to be one of the worst things to ever happen to WWE, there is no changing his mind, no matter what you say he's gonna come back and try to counter it with some shit, the guy just doesn't like Punk, and will only focus on the negative aspects he see's in this

While I'm not intentionally out to destroy Indy Punk (more on that in a moment) I'm merely stating my opinion. I really don't mind them arguing with me, it gives me the ability to continue talking. :lmao: And you know how much I love to talk.

The fact is, I have a point with my opinion. Fans can say this is a good decision, and a great move. I can disagree. Perhaps both of us will be right. Perhaps it'll turn out to help their ratings because of how shocking it'll be.

Perhaps the ratings will go up, because people refuse to believe Punk is good enough to hold the Championship that long which means they'll only start watching more and more, just to see who gets the title next.

That would make both my opinions of people seeing Punk as not worthy and him not being worthy, just as accurate as Punk fans claiming this was a good decision.

though I am curious about what he's trying to accomplish by calling him Indy Punk, I mean is it suppose to be an insult?, because honestly it's a pretty lame one, I mean 'Indy Punk'? the guy is the World champion of the largest wrestling promotion in the world, he's pretty far from being 'Indy' at this point, and I'm not sure how calling someone Indy is really suppose to be insulting, seeing as how the vast majority of wrestlers start off in the indies

As far as the Indy Punk name.. its not meant to be an insult, so much as his calling.. so to speak. Read through this entire thread. Find me one person who had anything good to say about C.M. Punk, that didn't involve them orgasming over his indy wrestling career. (ie. Indy Punk)

While I'm happy that the guy became such a huge name in the minor leagues, and became such a huge star to be noticed and brought up. The fact is, noone is giving me anything hes done note-worthy in the W.W.E. since being brought up.

Winning the E.C.W. Championship? So did Vince McMahon. So apparently it isn't that great of an accomplishment.

Winning Money in the Bank? It was a fluke victory given to him, because the previous assumed winner screwed up and got suspended. And that controvesy will hang over Punk's win forever. Right or wrong, we may never know.

What else has he truly done? Nothing. So Indy Punk's only accomplishments are what he did.. somewhere else, in a barn, or a very small arena that got less or equal numbers to T.N.A. iMPACT! tapings.

By no means am I'm trying to intentionally bad mouth R.O.H. believe me, especially to you.. you're the R.O.H. knowledge book, so thats one debate I'd lose. And while they develop some very major Superstars for the years to come.. sometimes they also develop duds. And Indy Punk hasn't done anything to be remembered for, until now.. and it was mainly presented to him, as a fluke.

Short of Punk suddenly defeating the likes of John Cena, Batista, Kane, Chris Jericho & Shawn Michaels.. he won't be considered a Heavyweight Champion. He'll be considered a lucky little Punk.

John87

07-03-2008, 11:39 PM

In my opinion about this whole thing, i dont exactly think that they "had" to do it and i think they did this because they knew that yeah, this was the last chance to change the damn show for that night why not make it interesting? i think that Punk carrying RAW is a great idea as opposed to the ones they've had recently like John Cena carrying it for like 2 or 3 years. i mean yeah Punk may not stay champion that long but its better than watching Cena pull some type of bullshxt victory out of his ass and being the champion again for what? so more fans can boo him? I think they did this because he had the briefcase, they needed a world title on their brand (and yes i say that keeping in mind it was all fixed obviously) and why not a fresh face from the draft take the title and Punk just so happened to have that case, and cashed it in. it wouldnt have made sense if like Y2J left his feud with HBK to like capture that title and say Oh ok, now me and Michaels can go back to feuding again. another reason why i think that they did this is because look at the world champs that wwe have had on Raw and SD!. its been a big John Cena and Batista 3 years and while the world title was on SD!, the only guys that could take that title were booker, taker, lashley and maybe even kennedy. hardly a main eventer could hold it and now look at it. Punk gets drafted and gets the world title because i think that they felt that "ok, the world title hardly has as much a prestige on RAW as it did on SD! and now maybe since Punk can hold it, some other up and coming mid carders can finally hold it too" and that also goes for the wwe title being on smackdown. for example, Lesnar, he wasnt even anywhere near the look of a main eventer. he was more of a bodyguard/squasher type like test and tomko and he got the title on smackdown didnt he? do you honestly think he could have won the wwe championship on RAW being that that particular title has the greatest history, greatest prestige while on RAW when there were the likes of Triple H and Shawn Michaels or even Undertaker when he was on RAW. I think that they chose Punk and timed it right to bring over a world championship and with the title swap, the prestige isnt exactly sky rocketing as it was when both had been where they were these last 3 or so years. guys like Carlito couldnt hold the WWE title and shelton and jeff cause it was just weird to them and they probably felt that "oh, well these guys havent broken out of their mid card shells yet lets keep them dreaming about it and capturing the IC title everytime they wipe their asses." and even that hardly ever happened and now that the WWE title is on SD!, its in the right position for guys like carlito and shelton and jeff and even kennedy to get their big break as world champion.

i know this has dragged on so my point is this. they hardly had any main eventers on SD! and on RAW. they just had a large amount of star power on RAW and they had a lot, and i mean a lot of mid card guys like punk and carlito and jeff and others on different brands and i think they were looking at this question "how much longer can they stay this way?" when WWE has developmental guys and gals that want their big break soo bad but the mid carders who have been in that position for years are still there. by doing this, they have created newer or can create newer main eventers in place of older guys like taker, HHH, HBK, and others that may retire one day. As for punk, i think thats why he won that title because had they moved him to RAW, it wouldnt be believeable or such a great sight for an ECW superstar to just jump to RAW and steal the WWE title. no, prestige is too high. and they didnt move him to smackdown so why not swap the world titles and make it a bit more believeable. anyone can go ahead and criticize punk or what i have said but in the end, our opinions dont really matter because i just read here on the site that punk pulls in ratings. so this one month or a few weeks deal people or just that person is talking about, may not be the case. if hes pulling in better ratings than what RAW has been doing these last few weeks, he may end up being the champ til summerslam or longer or until the fans get tired of him like they did with cena.

varney

07-04-2008, 07:29 AM

ill talk about Punk without bringing up the indies

Punks debut: Had the biggest pop of the night, had a CM Punk chant from the moment he got his named called and we all can't forget the "I PAID TO SEE CM PUNK" sign

Survivor Series: Out popped DX and the Hardys, isnt DX the top stable in WWE History and isnt the Hardys the top tag-team in WWE history...hmmmm

ECW in MSG (Madison Square Garden): Faced Shannon Moore, get's the biggest pop of the night (including SmackDown)

Raw in Chicago: Faced Kenny Dykstra, biggest pop of the night

two of the biggest markets in the world and gets the biggest pop, his first year mind you, out pops the "oh so amazing" HHH in DX

his merchandise is through the roof, he caters to that Attitude Era audience (ala Hammerstein debut pop, MSG pop, Chicago pop; Chicago and NY are the biggest smark cities) we all know what happens to Cena when he visits either (WM 22)

the guy is popular and he caters to us internet fans, he's actually got wrestling talent (even if it hasn't been shown in WWE yet you god damn know he has it) watch Morrison Punk IV when Punk wins the ECW title, tremendous wrestling by Punk, he can sell, and doesnt mind a floor dive or falling outside the ring on his back

did we all forget the match that could of been a start of a fued that could of put punk on the map a year ago, Benoit vs Punk, he caught a real bad break with that

let's see what the guy is made of, this is sink or swim time, don't shit on him till he shits on himself please

Deexter Jorgan

07-04-2008, 10:57 AM

While I'm not intentionally out to destroy Indy Punk (more on that in a moment) I'm merely stating my opinion. I really don't mind them arguing with me, it gives me the ability to continue talking. :lmao: And you know how much I love to talk.

The fact is, I have a point with my opinion. Fans can say this is a good decision, and a great move. I can disagree. Perhaps both of us will be right. Perhaps it'll turn out to help their ratings because of how shocking it'll be.

Perhaps the ratings will go up, because people refuse to believe Punk is good enough to hold the Championship that long which means they'll only start watching more and more, just to see who gets the title next.

That would make both my opinions of people seeing Punk as not worthy and him not being worthy, just as accurate as Punk fans claiming this was a good decision.

As far as the Indy Punk name.. its not meant to be an insult, so much as his calling.. so to speak. Read through this entire thread. Find me one person who had anything good to say about C.M. Punk, that didn't involve them orgasming over his indy wrestling career. (ie. Indy Punk)

While I'm happy that the guy became such a huge name in the minor leagues, and became such a huge star to be noticed and brought up. The fact is, noone is giving me anything hes done note-worthy in the W.W.E. since being brought up.

Winning the E.C.W. Championship? So did Vince McMahon. So apparently it isn't that great of an accomplishment.

Winning Money in the Bank? It was a fluke victory given to him, because the previous assumed winner screwed up and got suspended. And that controvesy will hang over Punk's win forever. Right or wrong, we may never know.

What else has he truly done? Nothing. So Indy Punk's only accomplishments are what he did.. somewhere else, in a barn, or a very small arena that got less or equal numbers to T.N.A. iMPACT! tapings.

By no means am I'm trying to intentionally bad mouth R.O.H. believe me, especially to you.. you're the R.O.H. knowledge book, so thats one debate I'd lose. And while they develop some very major Superstars for the years to come.. sometimes they also develop duds. And Indy Punk hasn't done anything to be remembered for, until now.. and it was mainly presented to him, as a fluke.

Short of Punk suddenly defeating the likes of John Cena, Batista, Kane, Chris Jericho & Shawn Michaels.. he won't be considered a Heavyweight Champion. He'll be considered a lucky little Punk.

I got one thing that will change your mind, Paul Heymen recently wrote in the Sun that Edge made Punk the babyface champion that he is, so in a way Edge having sumpremly hot heel heat right now is good for creating new stars like Punk, so why not keep that in mind before you go on a huge rant on why this is bad

Also on another wrestling site it states that Punk is going for a bret hart test run, the WWE will see how well the ratings climb and the fans get behind his reign before they pull the plug, so why not see how it goes before you call the reign a complete flop will

Come on join us

The Champ is here

07-04-2008, 11:07 AM

I don't give a Damn about no got damn indy Punk Wut I care about is World Heavyweight Champion C.M. Punk ........C.M. Punk might of just saved the wwe for the summer. We were all tired of the same Storyline angles featuring the same superstars over again since SummerSlam 07, but now we got new faces new champs and it's time for the the WWE to be must see t.v. again. However, i do believe that C.M. punk needs to use his submission move as his finisher not the GTS.......but what the hell, it is the WWE afterall.

I just wish to see superstars like Matt and jeff hardy, Big daddy V, Hardcore holly just to name of few....they should of gotten the Championship earlier before C.M. punk did.

C.M.Punk vs Rey Mysterio- Summerslam of 08 -Rey wins, Rey wins, Rey wins,-

Oh yeah!.......I hated with a passion the New World tag Team champions.

Golden Standard

07-04-2008, 11:09 AM

CM Punk will make a good transitional champion. I mean he brings freshness to the mainevent scene so he being world champ is not that bad of an idea really. And i think he will hold the title proud. I don't see him doing no wrong. I mean he may not have the best wrestling skills, but he is okay on the mic and is over with the fans so he will be a crediable champion.

Shocky

07-04-2008, 12:05 PM

Winning the E.C.W. Championship? So did Vince McMahon. So apparently it isn't that great of an accomplishment.

Winning Money in the Bank? It was a fluke victory given to him, because the previous assumed winner screwed up and got suspended. And that controvesy will hang over Punk's win forever. Right or wrong, we may never know.

Short of Punk suddenly defeating the likes of John Cena, Batista, Kane, Chris Jericho & Shawn Michaels.. he won't be considered a Heavyweight Champion. He'll be considered a lucky little Punk.

Vince McMahon also won the WWE championship, so now all of a sudden are we throwing out the credibility of that title as well? Also, I seem to remember David Arquette holdnig onto the big Gold Belt at one time as well (don't give me it's not the same belt crap, because it is). The point is, every championship has had it's fair share of crap wrestlers. So to discredit Punks ECW title reign due to the "lineage" of the belt is a crap stance in my opinion.

MITB: Sure, it may have been a fluke, but let's thanks Jeff Hardy for beign the monumental fuck up that he is. And anyways, how is anyone so sure that Jeff Hardy was scheduled to win that match anyway? We are all assuming because Hardy was the most over guy in the match that he was going to win, but we don't know with 100% certainty that he was supposed to win. for all we know, this was the original plan all along. Plus, this is a pretty weak argument coming from John Morrison's biggest supporter, where we all realize that he was the one that lucked into his title reign, hell at least Punk was originally scheduled in the match that he won.

The fact is still, that the WWE has decided to push someone new, and you don't like him is what it comes down to. I've been around long enough to realize that this is the same reaction most new guys get as champion. When the WWE made the Rock a champion in 1998, most were pissed (because the Rock sucked in 1998 and wasn't ready), Triple H was seen as a mistake (because he was a terrible choice for champion) in 1999, Chris Jericho, and on and on and on. You have to let the title reign play out, and look at it in hindsight to determine it was a success (John Cena) or not (Shawn Michaels or Triple H).

gnr_801

07-04-2008, 01:34 PM

Winning Money in the Bank? It was a fluke victory given to him, because the previous assumed winner screwed up and got suspended. And that controvesy will hang over Punk's win forever. Right or wrong, we may never know.

there's no "fluke's" in wrestling. it either happens or not. CM Punk is the champion by his own merits. Ratings prove that he can carry the show (4.2 for his first title defense). And "big will", Edge being champion on SD! didnt help ratings at all, in fact ratings went down after his championship win.

TheOneBigWill

07-04-2008, 02:10 PM

there's no "fluke's" in wrestling. it either happens or not.

Tell that to everyone still scratching their heads at the David Arquette - W.C.W. World Heavyweight Championship reign.

The fact is, Indy Punk fell into the position he got. He has talent and I won't discredit him for the talent he holds. But the thing of it is, he doesn't hold "Main Event" level talent. He holds midcard talent. Hes the guy you'll wanna watch open a show to attempt getting you fired up, which he doesn't do a good job at. Hes the type of guy that works his ass off, trying to learn more and more all the time, whch he also doesn't do a good job at.

But hes definately NOT World Heavyweight Championship material. And this if anything will come to prove that. The term "transitional Champion" has never had more meaning.

CM Punk is the champion by his own merits.

Merits? You act as if Indy Punk literally earned his spot. As if the guy went through the roster, defeated the big names, earned his place due to his hard work through winning.

NO, who has he beaten? Outside of a mainly broken Edge, in which he couldn't defeat a while back on Smackdown in a regular match-up.. who has Indy Punk ever defeated, in the W.W.E., thats proved hes a legit. World Champion contender?

Indy Punk won the Championship in fluke fashion, due to lack of options and lack of creative thinking.

Ratings prove that he can carry the show (4.2 for his first title defense).

:rolleyes: Then John Morrison would be HUGE as Raw World Heavyweight Champion, because Morrison pulled in a lot higher ratings than Punk.. and the ratings dropped when Punk became Champion and Morrison left the title picture.

The fact is, ratings increased because.. :eek: shocker, shocker.. a Heavyweight Championship switched hands. People tuned in after hearing word of mouth, to see if it was true. People stayed tuned in, because EVERYONE likely believed the Championship was about to change hands twice in one night, since Indy Punk isn't believable as a World Heavyweight Champion.

Give Raw two more weeks worth of ratings. Assuming Indy Punk keeps his Championship that long, I promise you when people realize this is for real and he won't be losing very soon, or on Raw.. the ratings will drop even lower.

The ratings went up due to a shock-value storyline unfolding and someone cashing in the MITB case. Nothing to do with Punk, other than being very lucky at being in the right place, at the right time.

And "big will", Edge being champion on SD! didnt help ratings at all, in fact ratings went down after his championship win.

Go read Paul Heyman's latest article in which he explains the situation regarding Edge and who he is to this business. Then come talk to me about how Edge wasn't a proper or ratings grabbing World Champion.

On average, one person doesn't collectively give you ratings. It takes the whole show to work properly. The greatest thing Smackdown had, and continues to have.. is Edge, the W.W.E.'s number one heel.

Edge single handedly, if nothing else, MADE Indy Punk, on Raw. Edge, being half way unconscious, still delivered in a 5 star performance against Indy Punk and as a result of their "match" created any type of status Punk now has.

Deexter Jorgan

07-04-2008, 02:16 PM

Credit Joey Styles and WWE.COM

"Congratulations to the New World Heavyweight Champion, CM Punk. I felt a personal connection with Steve Austin and Mick Foley when the won the WWE Championship because I had seen them break out in ECW before chasing the brass ring in WWE.

However, having followed CM Punk's career through the indies and internationally before calling his WWE ECW debut in New York City, I had goosebumps Monday night watching Punk achieve his lifelong dream and almost felt like I had won the title with him.

I spent the rest of Monday evening hanging out with the new World Heavyweight Champion, clad in his trademark baggy jeans, dirty Cubs cap and worn T-shirt, knowing that this young man will not be affected in any way by his newly earned success. Punk will always be Punk. He's not just a character you see on television. Punk is genuinely that grounded person all day, every day which is why I believe our fans, specifically our younger fans flock to him. Hopefully, his message of drug free hard work will resonate with those youngsters as well. In fact, drug-free hard work is a message that will hopefully resonate with all Americans on Independence Day...and every day."

I dont think he single handedly made punk, punk did a hell of a job himself, but Edge did bring him to the leve he is at and thats what a good heel should do make faces, thats what some main event talent doesnt do, remember tista HHH feud it did the same thing, now all i will say is this, Punk busted his ass and got where he needed to be and as far as im concerned garnered ratings and this time around no one can hold him down

TheOneBigWill

07-04-2008, 03:27 PM

First, what exactly are you trying to prove by posting an article written by a W.W.E. personality? Wouldn't that be just as biased and one sided as asking Vince McMahon whether he prefered watching W.W.E. programming or T.N.A. programming?

Of course any article written by the W.W.E. reps are going to make this look like a great thing. (unless hes heel, then they'll sell it being great in a opportunistic way, through bad tactics)

I dont think he single handedly made punk, punk did a hell of a job himself, but Edge did bring him to the leve he is at and thats what a good heel should do make faces, thats what some main event talent doesnt do

I seriously hope you're kidding. I mean, to say Indy Punk had any part in making what he became on Raw is absurd. Edge was laid out flat by Batista. Punk had to work hard in just walking to the ring and selling cashing in a case. Edge completely made Punk, by playing dead.

The fans would've never cheered for Punk winning the title, had each and every one of them (more or less) practically wanted to see Edge drop the Championship in general.

As the Heyman article says, Edge is such a great heel.. people want to see him get the shit beat out of him. Then, because of how great he plays his role, people will never be satisfied with seeing it happen just once, they want to see it happen again and again.

Edge made Indy Punk, by doing nothing more than cutting a heel promo on Jim Ross, in Oklahoma. Then getting the shit beat out of him, without laying in one offensive move on Batista in return. As a result, Indy Punk cashes in, and the fans go wild.. not because Punk won, but because Edge lost.. everything.

remember tista HHH feud it did the same thing

The difference is talent and look. Batista might not have the complete skill level and talent that Indy Punk carries, but Batista has a much greater, Main Event look.

And Batista carried the roars of the crowd with him. Punk got NO reaction when he came out. The only reaction he got, was when people noticed Edge lost the World Championship. Half the people in attendance wouldn't even recall the night in saying "Punk won." They'll recall the night in saying "Edge lost."

now all i will say is this, Punk busted his ass and got where he needed to beand as far as im concerned garnered ratings

Incorrect theory, in my opinion. Punk didn't bust shit to fall into the Money in the Bank spot that wasn't his to begin with. Punk didn't defeat anyone to become known as a credible challenger. All he did, was cash in at the right time.

The MITB case isn't something thats meant to make you look like you busted your ass to gain what you get. Its always been used to look like an easy route to victory. Edge, on both occasions did exactly what Punk did.. and was criticized for it because he was a heel. So how did Punk bust his ass, yet Edge didn't?

R.V.D. cashed in and let his opponent know a month ahead of time when, where and how it was going down.. yet it was still viewed as one sided because of the elements involved. So please don't sit there and try and pawn off to me that Punk worked his ass off to become World Champion, when it was merely something that was handed to him.

As far as ratings go. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. Indy Punk was not the result of the ratings. The storyline in which he played a major role in, was. Edge was the highest rated World Heavyweight Champion when he won in a long time.. was it entirely because hes that incredibly good?

While I'd love to say yes, the fact is at that time.. not really. It was because the Championship switched, when noone seen it coming.

and this time around no one can hold him down

Except maybe himself? And his average style, skills and talent? I suppose we'll see.

triplesic

07-04-2008, 03:59 PM

To: TheOneBigWill

You have such a pessimistic view of what happens behind the scenes.

Even if it's true that Jeff Hardy was suppose to win MITB, here's a list of other guys that could have been given the win
• Chris Jericho
• Shelton Benjamin
• John Morrison
• Carlito
• MVP
• Mr. Kennedy

Why not let one of those guys win?
I know you like to believe the backstage rumors that Punk is in the doghouse.
But honestly If they didn't think he deserved it they would have given it to someone else.
Jesus Jericho wold have been the easy choice. How about Kennedy, he won last year only to get injured.

And you sound like a guy who's always gonna complain about what's happening. There's always going to be someone else who deserves it more then the one who's on top.

TheOneBigWill

07-04-2008, 04:24 PM

To: TheOneBigWill

I love my fans.

You have such a pessimistic view of what happens behind the scenes.

Well that wasn't very nice. What tipped you off? The depressing Avatar, or the quote that went with it? And I don't always look down upon things. Just things I don't like.

Even if it's true that Jeff Hardy was suppose to win MITB, here's a list of other guys that could have been given the win

I'm about to pick about your list and agree with you 100% that its likely that any of them could've been World Champion before Indy Punk. Just letting you know ahead of time.

• Chris Jericho

100% agree. Chris Jericho is a former first-ever Undisputed Champion and would have been an easy choice to become World Heavyweight Champion on Raw. Especially since hes arguably becoming their biggest heel.

The only flaw. How would you get the World Heavyweight Championship off of Edge (The Biggest Heel) onto Jericho? (also heel)

• Shelton Benjamin

While Shelton Benjamin has way more talent than Indy Punk, and is honestly a lot more enjoyable to watch. Sadly, I have to say Indy Punk would be the better choice because at least Punk has more of a personality.

And to be a World Champion, you need personality more than ability and skills. (Otherwise noone could explain Khali's reign)

• John Morrison

I FRICKEN WISH! Seriously, if there could've been one guy from the younger talent I wish more than anything it could've been John Morrison.

To me, in my personal opinion, John Morrison is more exciting to watch, has more charisma, has more character, has better mic skills and is by leaps and bounds way more talented in every way imaginable.

However, once again you run into the factor of how to take the title off a heel, to place it on a heel. And while I love Morrison to death, he needs to find a gimmick and settle. John Morrison is a great name, but the gimmick in which its for.. honestly doesn't strike me as World Championship material.

• Carlito

Are you mildly retarded?

Carlito is in the so-called "doghouse" if there ever was one. The guy complains about the W.W.E. more than "I" complain about Punk being Champion. No way will Carlito be getting close to any type of Championship.. except to be squashed by the reigning Champion.

• MVP

A perfect alternative. M.V.P. has a lot better charisma, character, mic skills, gimmick, in-ring talent and overall ability. Why this didn't happen is beyond me.

They even had the perfect segway to give the title to M.V.P., from Edge. Its been building for a while now, that M.V.P. is unhappy with how Edge & Vickie Guerrero are running things. So logically, it'd be perfect for M.V.P. to have taken the World Heavyweight title from Edge, then jump to Raw.

• Mr. Kennedy

Another perfect alternative for all the same reasons as listed for M.V.P.. add on top of that, that Kennedy has been receiving a mild-to-massive push since his return, and could've truly carried the Raw brand as their World Heavyweight Champion.

The storyline, much like M.V.P., was also set in place for Kennedy to defeat Edge. Kennedy could've taken the MITB case from Punk, only to cash in against Edge and do to Edge, what Kennedy should've done last year that Edge more or less stole from Kennedy.

Why not let one of those guys win?

Do you see me (outside of Carlito & partly Benjamin) disagreeing with any of those choices over Indy Punk? No.

Again, my biggest argument is Punk was massively undeserving. I could've carried less that Edge lost the World Heavyweight Championship. I loved how he did lose it, as it didn't hurt him, if anything it made him look like such an undefeatable World Champion, that the only way he could be defeated is by someone using his own tactics against him.

I'm ONLY against Indy Punk becoming World Heavyweight Champion, because hes done NOTHING to deserve it.

I know you like to believe the backstage rumors that Punk is in the doghouse.

I have no clue what you're yammering about. I could care less about Punk's backstage popularity. Obviously he wouldn't be in some so-called "doghouse" if they just placed the World Championship on him. If thats true, then maybe there is a method to Carlito's maddness.

I merely dislike Punk because hes average, at best, and doesn't strike me in any way, shape, or form.. as a Heavyweight contender.

But honestly If they didn't think he deserved it they would have given it to someone else.

So by that logic, did David Arquette deserve and earn the W.C.W. World Heavyweight Championship? Did Santino Marella deserve the Intercontinental Championship?

NO, the answer is NO. They give Championships to those they either want to make a photoshoot out of. (Arquette) Or those they'd like to attempt building, regardless of them deserving it. (Santino)

Punk's victory will never be anything more to me, than a panic attack in order to get a Heavyweight Championship to Raw. Because in trying to grab ratings from the draft, they forgot how to properly plan a better storyline on getting a Heavyweight title back to Raw.

Jesus Jericho wold have been the easy choice. How about Kennedy, he won last year only to get injured.

Why not either? I'm not, nor have I ever disagreed.

And you sound like a guy who's always gonna complain about what's happening. There's always going to be someone else who deserves it more then the one who's on top.

I think its law of nature to understand once you're on top, the only place to go from there is down. So naturally any Champion will be good for a while, but sooner or later someone will come along and always be better.

The shear fact that you bunch of Punk Bastards (my new name for Punk fans) group together and say Punk is more deserving because this is refreshing is absurd. Just hot potato the Championship through the midcard why don't you.

Lance Cade could've won it. Kofi Kingston could've won it. Cody fricken Rhodes, I'd of agreed with that a lot more if Cody would've won it.

triplesic

07-04-2008, 05:14 PM

I love my fans.

you may have just lost a fan in record time

100% agree. Chris Jericho is a former first-ever Undisputed Champion and would have been an easy choice to become World Heavyweight Champion on Raw. Especially since hes arguably becoming their biggest heel.

The only flaw. How would you get the World Heavyweight Championship off of Edge (The Biggest Heel) onto Jericho? (also heel)

Well when jericho was in the MITB he wasn't a heel yet, sooo they could have given it to him.

While Shelton Benjamin has way more talent than Indy Punk, and is honestly a lot more enjoyable to watch. Sadly, I have to say Indy Punk would be the better choice because at least Punk has more of a personality.

And to be a World Champion, you need personality more than ability and skills. (Otherwise noone could explain Khali's reign)

All true

I FRICKEN WISH! Seriously, if there could've been one guy from the younger talent I wish more than anything it could've been John Morrison.

To me, in my personal opinion, John Morrison is more exciting to watch, has more charisma, has more character, has better mic skills and is by leaps and bounds way more talented in every way imaginable.

However, once again you run into the factor of how to take the title off a heel, to place it on a heel. And while I love Morrison to death, he needs to find a gimmick and settle. John Morrison is a great name, but the gimmick in which its for.. honestly doesn't strike me as World Championship material.

I would quite literally shoot my brains out if John Morrison became world champion.
when he was ECW champ doing promo's, the words he was saying worked (except that palace of wisdom crap) but his delivery was bad, he sounded like he didn't even believe he should be champ. Maybe in 4 or 5 years and a gimmick change.

Are you mildly retarded?

Now that's actually pretty rude

Carlito is in the so-called "doghouse" if there ever was one. The guy complains about the W.W.E. more than "I" complain about Punk being Champion. No way will Carlito be getting close to any type of Championship.. except to be squashed by the reigning Champion.

I was just listing the other participants in the MITB match

A perfect alternative. M.V.P. has a lot better charisma, character, mic skills, gimmick, in-ring talent and overall ability. Why this didn't happen is beyond me.

They even had the perfect segway to give the title to M.V.P., from Edge. Its been building for a while now, that M.V.P. is unhappy with how Edge & Vickie Guerrero are running things. So logically, it'd be perfect for M.V.P. to have taken the World Heavyweight title from Edge, then jump to Raw.

Sure but I think he needs to be put in a few more high profile matches first

Another perfect alternative for all the same reasons as listed for M.V.P.. add on top of that, that Kennedy has been receiving a mild-to-massive push since his return, and could've truly carried the Raw brand as their World Heavyweight Champion.

The storyline, much like M.V.P., was also set in place for Kennedy to defeat Edge. Kennedy could've taken the MITB case from Punk, only to cash in against Edge and do to Edge, what Kennedy should've done last year that Edge more or less stole from Kennedy.

He's gonna be huge one day

Do you see me (outside of Carlito & partly Benjamin) disagreeing with any of those choices over Indy Punk? No.

Again, my biggest argument is Punk was massively undeserving. I could've carried less that Edge lost the World Heavyweight Championship. I loved how he did lose it, as it didn't hurt him, if anything it made him look like such an undefeatable World Champion, that the only way he could be defeated is by someone using his own tactics against him.

I'm ONLY against Indy Punk becoming World Heavyweight Champion, because hes done NOTHING to deserve it.

I don't think it's his fault that he, as you say, "done nothing" to deserve it.
I think WWE has missed a lot of opportunities with him.
He should have won the ECW title at December to remember instead of lashley. He was getting some pretty good fan support at the time.

I have no clue what you're yammering about. I could care less about Punk's backstage popularity. Obviously he wouldn't be in some so-called "doghouse" if they just placed the World Championship on him. If thats true, then maybe there is a method to Carlito's maddness.

I merely dislike Punk because hes average, at best, and doesn't strike me in any way, shape, or form.. as a Heavyweight contender.

There's been a lot of rumors about his attitude backstage but I don't believe it either

So by that logic, did David Arquette deserve and earn the W.C.W. World Heavyweight Championship? Did Santino Marella deserve the Intercontinental Championship?

Don't get me started on the shit WCW was pulling back then, that's a whole other can of worms. And Santino won the IC title that's a completely different standard. and the angle that he won it with worked. They didn't sell him as anything more then he was either, so that was fine with me.

NO, the answer is NO. They give Championships to those they either want to make a photoshoot out of. (Arquette) Or those they'd like to attempt building, regardless of them deserving it. (Santino)

First part is true for WCW. second part is true for any midcard title.

Punk's victory will never be anything more to me, than a panic attack in order to get a Heavyweight Championship to Raw. Because in trying to grab ratings from the draft, they forgot how to properly plan a better storyline on getting a Heavyweight title back to Raw.

I wouldn't call it a panic attack to get the belt back on Raw. they could have figured something out to put it on someone that would have been a more established , but then would have assuredly got heat from the internet fans as the same old same old.
I think giving it to Punk 1.) had a built in story already there MITB
2.) I really think they want to try something new.

The shear fact that you bunch of Punk Bastards (my new name for Punk fans) group together and say Punk is more deserving because this is refreshing is absurd. Just hot potato the Championship through the midcard why don't you.

yes you're very clever....just kidding.

I don't necessarily think he's more deserving then everybody else, but he did have the MITB and to be honest I think that's why they have the stupid briefcase. Every time except for once they've used it in the same surprise fashion.
It's how MITB works.

Lance Cade could've won it. Kofi Kingston could've won it. Cody fricken Rhodes, I'd of agreed with that a lot more if Cody would've won it.

Now you're really kidding.....right? you'd have to be.

You can't honestly think those three guys have done more to deserve a world title then CM Punk. I'm not knocking any of them but come on.

But you do know, the day that Lance Cade wins a world title, there will be a thread on here full of people saying he doesn't deserve it.

shaunbaby

07-04-2008, 05:46 PM

I love the fact that CM Punk is the world champion, but with the way he was booked in the last few weeks, He was the last person i was expecting to cash the MitB, as I said in another thread, i thought someone would be beating CM Punk for the MitB.

Yeah, so overall i love that Punk is the champ, but disappointed in the way they brought about him winning it.

In an ideal world i would've loved to have seen Punk go into a fued, with a upper mid-carder/Main eventer for a month, then on the same PPV, have him cash it and bring the World Heavyweight Title to RAW, It would've given the win more credibillity, and also given Punk a fued to walk straight back into.

Punk Bastards (my new name for Punk fans)
If thats the case, Im going to call you a Rated R-sole, because your an Edge fan. (but then so am I) :icon_smile:

John87

07-04-2008, 06:08 PM

Ok, to TheOneBigWill, stop calling him Indy Punk. He was an Indy wrestler about a few years back and now hes CM Punk or can you read that clearly? when he comes out, the RAW graphic says CM Punk not Indy Punk. So what hes the World champion. its about time he deserves it because he has done more than your eyes have seen. Its about time we see new faces come up and take the light. Punk finally got his foot in the main event door and you cant be at least a tiny bit happy for him. i am. and about a million or more viewers out there are too. I know you have your freedom of speech and all that but to call him Indy Punk is definately an insult considering how far hes come and what title hes holding. He was in the Indies before but he isnt now. I mean, look at it this way, WWE has done a lot of things most people didnt like say for instance, the unforgettable but we wanna forget ICP stint where they accompanied the Oddities to the ring. There are tons of other things out there to complain about that were a lot worse than your so called terrible thought that CM Punk got the World Title. i mean hes champ. so what? you act like you know whats going to happen to him in a months time typing out "hell lose it in weeks or a month" i mean come on, you dont know that. you have no merry clue in hell as to what creative or management are going to do with this and neither does anyone else and i think thats why the forums are pretty much for GUESSTIMATION! last i checked man, he pulled in better ratings for RAW when he defended the belt against JBL and apparently if thats whats going to get the ratings up, (since Punk has FANS!) then thats what they are gonna do. Im not on here dissing you or any of that jazz im just tired of people downgrading Punk. and it isnt just you. its a lot of people lately since he got to WWE. you know, before i found this site a few years ago and before CM Punk made it to WWE, i saw a lot of posts on here about how good Punk is and how talented he is at wrestling and then its like...ok, im gonna check him out, see for myself. and he's everything most of these people say he is. and then when WWE brought him up from OVW, all there was, bashing. bashing the crap out of him cause he went to ECW. and it continues today and that honestly right there tells me that its pathetic to like him one minute and then wanna watch him fail the next. Its just pathetic to sit here and watch tons of people bash him for his success. i know there are other stars that need the light too but if you keep watching, it will happen. and thats why i think they moved the top brands titles to the other shows because at this rate, it makes it more believeable for some mid card wrestler to get to the top and thats what they need to do right now. HBK, HHH, Taker, guys like them arent going to be there forever man. and right now they are running out of main eventers and they have wayyy more mid carders than anything right now. I just cant see why your mad that they picked Punk first. its ridiculous. Thats the point of pro wrestling or any other sport. older guys are gonna retire and the new guys are coming up and taking the spot. I just...i dont know what to say anymore. down on my post all you want but there isnt a damn thing you can say or do to stop Punk from being the world champ and lets just see where this goes right? he may have created a new era lol. ok maybe not that far but one of these new guys will soon. and thats what all of us wrestling fans are waiting for. a new era.

richjb77

07-04-2008, 07:41 PM

I firmly believe that C.M. Punk winning the title is good for the sport. I am not a hugh punk fans. I am a fan of change. Change is good and something different for a change is good.

It could be Punk or Hardy or anyone. Change is good for the WWE especially

Mr. TM

07-04-2008, 09:29 PM

I predicted that CM Punk was going to win at Night of Champions, and was heart broken when the Copyright came on after Triple H was the champion.

I was soo happy that punk is the Champion, just saddened that Edge lost the belt.

The reason punk was given the belt is obviously that WWE needed to change it up, and give it to someone knew, that new person was CM Punk.

They needed a belt back on Raw, the only logical way was for CM Punk as MITB to bring it back. Though wouldnt he win the title, and stay on Smackdown?

The MITB is alwayhs that loophole the WWE has to work with. Will anyone ever lose their MITB match? Will someone forget to cash it in by WM?

TheOneBigWill

07-05-2008, 01:23 AM

you may have just lost a fan in record time

To be perfectly honest, this thread has single handedly become "TheOneBigWill dispises Indy Punk's Championship reign: Appreciation thread."

And a lot of individuals in this thread are having a hard time accepting my views. Rightfully so, I'd hate for any Punk Bastards to actually understand what I like to commonly call.. THE TRUTH.

Well when jericho was in the MITB he wasn't a heel yet, sooo they could have given it to him.

That would've been a good idea at the time, but the fact is during that time they didn't wish to give Chris Jericho the spot, because he was still a face and they likely didn't feel he'd be a heel anytime soon.

Jericho returned as a face, and I believe the W.W.E. honestly hoped the fans would cheer him and he'd be capable of running as a face for longer than he did.

Furthermore, in the aspect of seeing it from the outside, Jericho wasn't the greatest World Champion.. so they could've quite possibly seen Punk as deserving the chance more so than Jericho, since Punk hadn't had the shot. Of course that was also before they completely destroyed any credibility Punk had from that victory, by making him job to everyone and anyone directly thereafter.

I would quite literally shoot my brains out if John Morrison became world champion.
when he was ECW champ doing promo's, the words he was saying worked (except that palace of wisdom crap) but his delivery was bad, he sounded like he didn't even believe he should be champ. Maybe in 4 or 5 years and a gimmick change.

See, this is where we'd disagree greatly. John Morrison in a very similar fashion fell into the E.C.W. Championship much the same way I believe Indy Punk fell into becoming the World Heavyweight Champion.

The difference is Morrison capitalized on an unfortunate accident, whereas Punk was just the right person, in the right place, and the right time..

However to me, Morrison is by leaps and bounds better than Indy Punk.

I was just listing the other participants in the MITB match

Its really hard to consider any of this year's Money in the Bank participants as worthy. M.V.P. and Mr. Kennedy were truly it. Both are the heavily viewed favorites to carry the company.

Matt Hardy is doing an okay job as a midcard Champion, but will likely never be a Main Eventer. Jeff Hardy was the missing link that was truly designed for the victory, and Punk if anything might of originally been meant to regain the E.C.W. Championship instead of Kane, but lucked out and fell into a bigger role, due to Hardy's screw-up.

Sure but I think he needs to be put in a few more high profile matches first

I really think its odd how you believe M.V.P. should be put in more high profile matches, when Indy Punk hasn't even been put in any "high profile matches" himself.

M.V.P. had a great feud with Matt Hardy. He began his career feuding with Kane. Hes fought against Rey Mysterio. Hes had matches with the Undertaker, to my knowledge. Hes been a major star ready for the next push.

Punk won the E.C.W. Championship because Morrison got suspended. (fluke) Then he won Money in the Bank because Hardy got suspended. (fluke) I can hardly wait for the next Champion/Opportunity in which the original winner who was selected to win, gets suspended, because I guarantee.. Punk will be there.

He's gonna be huge one day

One day? Mr. Kennedy gets bigger pops taking a crap on the toilet than Punk got when he won the World Heavyweight Championship.

Kennedy is the voice of any show hes on, and while his in-ring skills need some fine tuning, the fact is the guy can carry himself a lot better as a Main Event aspect player, than Punk could ever dream of.

I don't think it's his fault that he, as you say, "done nothing" to deserve it.
I think WWE has missed a lot of opportunities with him.
He should have won the ECW title at December to remember instead of lashley. He was getting some pretty good fan support at the time.

I'll completely agree with both of these statements. First, I blame the W.W.E. 100% for not pushing Indy Punk properly. If Punk would've won something before falling into the World Heavyweight Championship, then I wouldn't be arguing, nor would I have a proper reason to argue.

If Punk would've won the Extreme Elimination Chamber match, at which point back during that time he was indeed red-hot with the fans.. it would've been anything but a fluke victory, and it would've been huge.

But needless to say, he didn't.. and he wasn't pushed in any rightful manner. So I have no choice but to see him as a fluke. Because the guy hasn't done anything to prove otherwise. He might of been "made" to lose by Creative, but the fact is in the few matches hes won.. in the few cases hes carried something.. he hasn't impressed me enough to say.. "Wow, that guy is gonna be the future someday."

There's been a lot of rumors about his attitude backstage but I don't believe it either

I have no idea about his attitude, other than to question if hes truly a snob-like prick because he really follows that "Straight Edge" ordeal of no drugs, drinking or smoking. You know what, I'm ironically the same. I don't drink, smoke or do drugs.. but I'm not cocky about it.

Don't get me started on the shit WCW was pulling back then, that's a whole other can of worms. And Santino won the IC title that's a completely different standard. and the angle that he won it with worked. They didn't sell him as anything more then he was either, so that was fine with me.

Thats exactly why its a different subject. For as horrible as it'll sound, Santino Marella winning the Intercontinental Championship had more meaning and more rightful purpose than Indy Punk falling into the World Heavyweight title.

Marella won due to Lashley's interference. Punk won because of Batista laying out Edge. The difference, Punk is a face who is suppose to be viewed as capable of beating Edge. Yet he wasn't even capable in recent monthes, of beating The Miz.

Marella was a "fan" who got lucky and played off that. Punk is a wrestler, who isn't playing off of being lucky, but instead acting as if he literally did something other than fall into a fluke.

I wouldn't call it a panic attack to get the belt back on Raw. they could have figured something out to put it on someone that would have been a more established , but then would have assuredly got heat from the internet fans as the same old same old.
I think giving it to Punk 1.) had a built in story already there MITB
2.) I really think they want to try something new.

The funny thing about internet fans. They'll always bitch and complain. Hell, what I'm doing.. bitching and complaining, but I have a right, just like they would if Edge defeated Punk instead of the other way around.

If anything, THAT would've been perfect for the way they'd built Punk. To have him become the first MITB winner to cash in, in an ultimate opportunistic way.. and NOT pick up the victory. Punk would've became remembered forever as the guy who lost. Instead, he'll be remembered forever as "Jeff Hardy's fluke replacement."

yes you're very clever....just kidding.

I don't necessarily think he's more deserving then everybody else, but he did have the MITB and to be honest I think that's why they have the stupid briefcase. Every time except for once they've used it in the same surprise fashion.
It's how MITB works.

Edge has had it twice, R.V.D. was the only other person. Its worked in an opportunistic way (ie. cheap) for Edge on both times he used it.. because he was a heel.

Punk did the exact same thing, yet was a face. Its like saying Edge could win a match without cheating in any fashion against a guy like John Cena, and it'd be a case of "what the fuck? Cena's the top face, Edge is heel, how'd/why'd that just happen?"

Now you're really kidding.....right? you'd have to be.

You can't honestly think those three guys have done more to deserve a world title then CM Punk. I'm not knocking any of them but come on.

But you do know, the day that Lance Cade wins a world title, there will be a thread on here full of people saying he doesn't deserve it.

In complete honesty, I was joking. I don't see Rhodes, Cade or Kingston as greater. However I will show ways in which they're so close, it just makes it look that much worse to how Punk is.

Lance Cade: He was trained by Shawn Michaels. Hes now with Chris Jericho. For Cade to defeat Punk and win the Championship would be huge for him, and completely make his career. Would it be a wise move, no, I seriously don't think it would be.

But the fact is, Cade has more skills and has the shear ability to do it and get the reaction a heel would, if he did.

Cody Rhodes: He has Family ties on his side. His Father never became a World Champion. His brother never became a World Champion, his recent heel turn was good, but if he would've stolen a World Heavyweight Championship.. he could've single-handedly made his entire career off of being the one member of his Family, to do what noone else could.

Kofi Kingston: Honestly, in the matches hes had on E.C.W.. he always out-shined Indy Punk. In the times they've teamed, the fans popped louder for Kingston. The only reason I believe Kingston wasn't given the title, is because they couldn't figure out a proper way to get it onto him.

ImpactPlayer27

07-05-2008, 01:29 AM

I have to admit that my hopes with the draft were slim and none. I thought everything surrounding the draft would fade in a week, despite the moves that were made. I humbly admit that I was wrong on that. Nowhere did I think that CM Punk would hold a title other than the ECW title or IC title belt. I admit that I thought Punk would take that title from Edge because there is no way in hell that Punk would ever get a pin over Triple H or Cena in the WWE. And I'll admit, I got scared when JBL challenged Punk because I thought JBL would screw him over and get the belt and I'd be left resorting ot throwing my TV into the wall because that would to me put WWE Raw below Nitro, hell below Thunder for crying out loud. But I like this move because apparently, the crowd loves this. A guy as over as Punk is and whether you like him or not he is over with the crowd by a good amount, is now a world title holder of a meaningful belt. However, the only downsides is that Mark Henry is the ECW title holder and he shouldn't be a champion of anything, much less holding the ECW belt but thats another issue. The other downside is Smackdown no longer has a mid card belt. It's worse than how TNA acts like they don't need a mid-card belt. In that one act alone in CM Punk winning a world title and Triple H going to Smackdown, WWE has peeked my interest in their ability to shock that I once believed was lost.

Sparky

07-05-2008, 01:37 AM

I have now as of 5 minutes ago watched when CM Punk's music hit on raw If he got a big pop as everyone say's he did how come you can't here it over his music. Yeah people popped when he won but only becouse everyone was excpecting something to happen to make cm punk lose it. I agree with will here when he say's that anybody on the raw roster would of been a better person to win it. THe only reason he won the dam title is becouse it was the only way possible. Seriously if someon was going to come out and challenge him he would of said no. CM Punk is way over rated. Hornswoggle would be a better champion. CM Punk is a paper champion, He will only have the title for a maximum of two months, until they decide out of batista and cena on who will hold it next. Everybody, well except for a very small handful are acting as if CM Punk is the best thing since sliced bread. Yeah it is great to have someone fresh as champion but CM Punk isnt ready to be World heavywhiegt champion.

SpiralHands

07-05-2008, 04:43 AM

I dont really know anything about CM Punks background in the indies and frankly I dont really care. I like Punk quite a bit maybe not as much as some people for example I dont think hes the best wrestler there is at the moment but I do believe that he earned his Title he has. I was really suprised and very happy when he won the title, even though Edge made him look great so did JBL in the main event and to be honest I think Punk should remain champion for sometime with everyone trying to bring him down, it would make him even more. But kudos to WWE for the surprise and long may they continue.

THE Madcap

07-05-2008, 07:10 AM

I don't know if this has been mentioned in this thread or not, but I can see the WWE drawing parallels with Rey Mysterio's title reign in Punk. Both unexpectedly won the WHC as underdogs and I can see Punk being fed big guys like JBL to boost his credibility as a main eventer. Like Mysterio, I can't see Punk having a long run with the belt but also like with the Mysterio situation it was refreshing to see a new guy getting a rub at the top.

NEW DAWN

07-05-2008, 07:45 AM

He did it cm punk won the world heavyweight title. After his legendary run in the indy's winning the IWA mid south heavyweight title 5 times to winning the ROH tag titles 2 times and finally what was his biggest win in the indy the ROH world title. then coming to OVW and just winning there and getting called up to ECW and doing all he could there. And on raw winning the world title i was happy more then happy. When i first seen punk in 2003 i said he would be the future wwe superstar and future world champ and he did do it and i never thought he would not. But i did here of the roumers going around that punk would not hold it for long and that is stupid everyone want's to see punk and with the main event rating being 4.1 that has to tell wwe something. All i am saying is let the Straight Edge era begin. And if wwe wants to screw that around then they are making a bad choice. C.M. Punk rules

Ad!

07-05-2008, 08:49 AM

Hmmm.
To me, this move seems like it was all done to benefit one person: TRIPLE H.
In the long run (unless CM Punk gets a really lengthy title reign as a heel) Triple H will be the only one who benefits. He keeps his title at the expense of the more interesting Edge and John Cena.

Cena should have beaten Trips at NOC to make the titles right but no, Triple H HAS to go over him, so they bring out their ace in the hole of Punk cashing in MITB wayy too early just so he can stay a champion. This new star has only been created in order to keep an old star present, burying all the young talent on Smackdown...

Lets hope Edge beats him at the Bash (Unlikely considering the breakdown of La Familia.)

kingrko

07-05-2008, 02:41 PM

kingrko

07-05-2008, 02:55 PM

Well, CM Punk is definitely causing an uproar on these forums, and you know, I think thats what the WWE is aiming for, even if they don't know if this site exists.(I'm not bashing the sight right there or anything, I'm only saying.) It should be interesting to see what happens on the next Raw, which will only add ammunition to both sides of the WHC CM Punk debate.

triplesic

07-05-2008, 05:05 PM

Hey guys, how 'bout leaving the OneBigWill alone? My God, he's entitled to his opinion, which is a rather strongly voiced one. You guys don't need to bash him just because he's an Edge fan, and he hates CM Punk. That doesn't necessarily make him biased, because the dude does have quite an insight into the workings of the WWE. Now I'm not kissing ass here, because I absolutely detest Edge, and I like CM Punk. Now I understand that you OneBigWill said in an earlier post that Punk had his chance as ECW Champion, and that it was a failure, in response to everyone saying that you weren't giving Punk the chance. Well, Punk didn't exactly have the best array of title contenders did he? We couldn't see Punk vs Morrison over and over! The way I've see it, Punk now has competition that people think he's not ready to face. They think that Punk will lose against the likes of Batista or Cena. But in the back of their minds, they can't help but wonder: What if? What if CM Punk actually gets put over Cena or Batista? It's that question that will get people to watch, and to boost ratings. As I've said before, there's nothing wrong with WWE trying something new, even when there will always be some whiners out there. CM Punk has his chance, so we should just quit bashing him, saying how he's a bad champion and actually see how this plays out. I mean geez, he's only been champion for less than a week!

I don't think anything you've said is any different then what the rest of have said being opposed to OneBigWill.

I think the reason why people don't leave OneBigWill alone on this is because he instigates the argument by saying the bad panic like storytelling (his opinion) is CM Punks fault.
I disagree. If Punk doesn't quite seem up to par with other world champions it's because WWE has failed to push him correctly. The man Phil Brooks (CM Punk's actually name) is actually a great wrestler. The version of the CM Punk character that WWE has, hasn't been used to it's full potential.

Come in here and say CM Punk suck and i'll disagree completely.

Come in here and say the storylines CM Punk is involved in suck and I'll for the most part agree.

But don't blame the guy. Just let him prove himself here when he does have that chance. If he fails because he can't pull it off fine, you win.

But I'm sure OneBigWill will only see him as failing

kingrko

07-05-2008, 07:45 PM

I don't think anything you've said is any different then what the rest of have said being opposed to OneBigWill.

I think the reason why people don't leave OneBigWill alone on this is because he instigates the argument by saying the bad panic like storytelling (his opinion) is CM Punks fault.
I disagree. If Punk doesn't quite seem up to par with other world champions it's because WWE has failed to push him correctly. The man Phil Brooks (CM Punk's actually name) is actually a great wrestler. The version of the CM Punk character that WWE has, hasn't been used to it's full potential.

Come in here and say CM Punk suck and i'll disagree completely.

Come in here and say the storylines CM Punk is involved in suck and I'll for the most part agree.

But don't blame the guy. Just let him prove himself here when he does have that chance. If he fails because he can't pull it off fine, you win.

But I'm sure OneBigWill will only see him as failing

Actually, how I oppose the OneBigWill's opinion is a bit different from a few other people whove bashed OneBigWill. All they wanna do is get into some kind've childish internet arguement with him and swear and call him names. I didn't, i merely expressed my own opinion in contrast to Will's opinion. I'm not throwing a hissy fit just because i don't agree with what he says. Now I'm not saying everyone throwing hissy fits, but I have noticed some people that just childishly argue with Will, thats all I'm saying, and I think it's a bit ridiculous.

Now, triplesic I do agree with you on giving Punk a chance, as I've been saying in every post on this thread so far. I also agree with you because Punk does not suck at all. Like I said before, how I disagreed with OneBigWill was different, so I hope me and you are on the same page here.

triplesic

07-05-2008, 07:58 PM

I do believe we are on the same page kingrko.

I guess the point I was trying to make was don't expect BigWill to show you the same kind of courtesy. Especially since you have differing opinion on Punk then he does.
But He's so guilty of instigating. He knows where the line is and doesn't cross it but I can see what he's doing. No worries though it's all in good fun.

But it is good to see someone on here actually show a sense of understanding and honesty.

So,

Now that Punk is on a show that has some good competition hopefully he gets exposed to it and is allowed to show the talent that BigWill thinks he lacks. He also really needs to go back to using the Anaconda Vice, it's a much better move then the GTS.

TheOneBigWill

07-06-2008, 09:22 AM

I do believe we are on the same page kingrko.

I guess the point I was trying to make was don't expect BigWill to show you the same kind of courtesy. Especially since you have differing opinion on Punk then he does.

The irony to it is.. I'd show someone like Kingrko courtesy over someone like you, because the difference between you both is he (while he doesn't agree with me) can accept that what I say, is merely an opinion.

While its unknown what he truly feels on everything I've posted and replied to, I'm assuming he understands that the only thing I've done is merely voiced myself on howmuch I dislike Indy Punk and have replied to anyone with a difference of opinion, to further my point on each "positive" they have toward him.

Its not me showing disrespect, its not me being childish. (as some would think, and have even shown me in return) Its me debating the subject, in which noone has truly debated back, so much as thrown a fit that I'm repeating myself. When the only true thing I'm repeating is that Punk isn't worthy. And noone has proved me otherwise.

But He's so guilty of instigating. He knows where the line is and doesn't cross it but I can see what he's doing. No worries though it's all in good fun.

Perhaps you can fill me in, on exactly what it is you believe I'm doing? If it has nothing to do with the Punk/World Championship thread, then you can PM me and we'll discuss the matter more.

I assure you I didn't come in here to start a war with every poster who likes Punk. But I will reply to practically anyone who says anything great about the guy, because I disagree.. and shockingly, I thought thats what this was.. a forum.. inwhich to debate and give opinions?

So since when is it me instigating? I'm not pushing anyone to get into a bitchfest with me. I'm certainly not demanding people to call me names, although I do find it quite funny, especially since instead of merely backing up their theories and explaining to me why hes so great and deserving, they reply back with "You're an Edge fan, so your opinion doesn't matter." Or "You're just upset, and you wouldn't say this if it was anyone else."

But it is good to see someone on here actually show a sense of understanding and honesty.

Understanding? Honesty? :lmao: Do you seriously believe I'm lying? PROVE ME WRONG. Its all I've ever wanted someone to do. How is Punk worthy of being in the role hes been put in? How is he deserving? How is it not a fluke?

I understand that Punk fans won't look at those questions, because they'll just be blowing loads over the fact hes been crowned Champion. Believe me, as an Edge fan when he won by cashing in back the very first time.. I was being heard 2 states over. And I refused to listen to anyone try and tell me he didn't come a long way to earn it.

But the difference is.. I debated and explained why I felt he did earn it. And my biggest rebuttal didn't come with.. "He had a great career in R.O.H." Because what he did in the minor league, doesn't mean shit when he hit the majors.

So,

Now that Punk is on a show that has some good competition hopefully he gets exposed to it and is allowed to show the talent that BigWill thinks he lacks. He also really needs to go back to using the Anaconda Vice, it's a much better move then the GTS.

I honestly hope you're right. I truly and honestly do. When Raw comes on tomorrow night, I hope C.M. Punk faces someone in which he'll look good against. I hope Punk has a decent run, and proves me completely wrong that I feel hes a talentless hack. But I doubt he will.

Why do I doubt this? Because Punk's abilities can and will only carry him so far. The guy isn't anything great, and as a result he'll be a transitional Champion. Which in the end won't make him anything more than what he already is to me.. a fluke.

Now, if on Raw and for the next solid month C.M. Punk has a great set of match-ups, I'll call them like I see them and give the man the credit he'd be owed. But if I believe hes being carried, I'll explain that as well. The fact is, Punk is already at rock bottom to me.. so it won't be hard to believe he'll improve a little bit, it'd be kinda hard to fall anymore, when you've already hit the bottom.

kingrko

07-06-2008, 12:05 PM

Well, I'll say this concerning Punk's reign as champ, seeing as how it appears to be more of an experimental thing than anything else. Who knows? If CM Punk has a solid reign as Champion then maybe WWE will open the doors to the younger guy's for pushes. This is just a wild guess, and one that isn't necessarily based on solid grounds so I doubt it comes to fruition. I guess what I'm saying is that none of us truly one hundred percent know how this will play out, no matter how great our insight. (Unless for some insane reason, someone from Creative is on these forums leaking info.) Triplesic and OneBigWill and myself could find ourselves totally surprised because WWE may throw another curveball considering the fact that they know how to get the value out of shock-value. They've surprised all of us before, so why not do it again and prove ALL of us wrong.

(I mention Triplesic and OneBigWill because we seem to find ourselves in a slightly confusing three way debate, as you might see above.)

The irony to it is.. I'd show someone like Kingrko courtesy over someone like you, because the difference between you both is he (while he doesn't agree with me) can accept that what I say, is merely an opinion.

While its unknown what he truly feels on everything I've posted and replied to, I'm assuming he understands that the only thing I've done is merely voiced myself on howmuch I dislike Indy Punk and have replied to anyone with a difference of opinion, to further my point on each "positive" they have toward him.

Yes OneBigWill, your right. While no one really actually knows how I feel about your posts, I'd just like to confirm that you are right in me understanding that your merely voicing your opinion. Triplesic I appreciate that you appreciate that we're on the same page, but I'm not here to necessarilly declaring OneBigWill guilty of instigating, I'm here to debate
with people, notably the OneBigWill on this forum. I just prefer to do it in a way that doesn't involve taking jabs at the other posters. (I'm not saying your taking jabs at other posters Triplesic.) We should all just focus on the wrestling, because isn't that why we're here?

triplesic

07-06-2008, 01:40 PM

The reason I like CM Punk and think he'll do well as world champion given the chance.

I've been to a lot of house shows (WWE) and I've seen him wrestle without the constraints of TV, and he's had some great matches in my opinion, he also show'd a lot of charisma.

Now, BigWill I don't care if you like Edge, great we have something in common, I really like edge too. I think he makes a great Worlds Champion. And he's one of the best heels around today. I don't really care too much for him as a face but it's been a few years since then. I popped even more for Edge when he used the MITB at New Years Revolution to beat Cena, that was the best.

CM Punk in ROH, never saw one ROH match and I don't really care to. The first time I ever heard of CM punk is when i read internet reports of him coming to ECW.

The reason why I challenge your opinion is because I really do think that hatred toward punk is misdirected and should be aimed toward the idiots who don't know how to market or push him.

Shit I saw the guy come out and have a great match with Kevin Thorn (at least as great as it could have been considering) at a house show.

I think I'm just shocked that you put him on such a low level. I mean it's one thing to say you don't like the guy another to think he's at rock bottom.
I mean you like Johnny Nitro for gods sake ( which is fine, I'm not knocking that ).

I hope he does get the chance and I hope he does change your opinion. But proving someones opinion wrong is different and very difficult to do, they're personal opinions and are very seldom true or false.

86whitepony

07-06-2008, 05:16 PM

valon10

07-06-2008, 07:10 PM

i don't know why you guys are complaining like you are that punk won the whc. i think it is a GREAT idea that a wrestler who works hard, climbs the ladder, and pays his dues deserves a title run. and I AM SICK of seeing the same 5+ peeps holds titles because no one will let any talent work to get them. For real i can tell you every monday night raw for the past 5 years.....(triple h wins dogs any other guy that's not him) im sick of seeing the same raw over and over every week. get some action some hardcore matches and some new champs plus a couple clean finishes and face wins wouldn't be bad either

Let's see here your saying you don't want the same people to be put over.Why, you think they have the same people put over?Do,you feel it's because they got a reason for being put over? Examples Mic skills,and Wrestling skills.People are complaining because there are a lot of people that deserve the World Title that have waited a long time.When,was the last time Jeff Hardy got a title shot,Kennedy,and MVP.MVP, could be a good championship but, he is on a different brand Smackdown not Raw.Why don't they let the talent work?Is,because they don't feel they are ready or maybe they just don't want too.I believe Vince McMahon has a good idea of what he is doing even if he makes mistakes here and their.I agree with you Triple H takes advantage of the title because he is married to the boss's daughter he can do anything he wants.Furthermore,he wants to pass Ric Flair's 16 World Title runs he had in the past.Faces, can win a couple of matches but, the The WWE writer's want you to hate the heel so they make him or her win.Clean finishes would be great to have but,you need to continue story lines so they don't have clean finishes that often or just plain and simple they put over the heel the dirty way because he is a heel and a heel's job is make you hate him and cheat to win even if you don't like the way he won!

rawdaddy

07-06-2008, 07:26 PM

I like CM Punk, and have witness him at house shows myself, and is a solid in ring performer, but is he ready for the WHC? Before the draft you had "fresh faces" like Kennedy , Jeff Hardy(he served his time and is still over) ,Shelton Benjamin , Matt Hardy, MVP, who have been established in the eyes of the WWE fans for whom it would have been a "shock" for them to win the title, but believable. These guys have been over in one form or other, have history and the fans relate. Just to throw it to Punk to shake things up comes far from left field, but does not appeal to the fans, you are giving it to someone who must prove themselves as champ instead of maintaining their run as a believable champ.If he had been given the struggling wrestler treatment with faux title wins, and list of "he almost won the big one", when it does happen it will mean more to the fans , as I think if one of the before mentioned would have won, not with Punk, it's too soon.This move could bury him more than help him, and we wll see the title back on Cena before we care to.Side note: If the WWE title stays on Smackdown , why is it still the spinner belt?

86whitepony

07-06-2008, 09:12 PM

well i LOVE kennedy but he screwed himself over by failing a drug test he was pushed HEAVILY before then and even won the MITB. yes he dropped it cuz of injury but the second time around that's was his fault. and eventually your going to have to give a mid carder the belt sometime. that's how most of legends we know today were built. SCSA, HBK, EDGE, Orton, The Rock and my FAV DDP. and now i think CM Punk needs to hold the strap we are entering a new era of young wrestlers and it's only a matter of time before they start breaking out into superstars they should be. with the exception of ddp he was a lil older.

varney

07-07-2008, 02:50 AM

can you please stop referring to CM Punk as Indy Punk
your logic is flaw'd by your ego to get over on the internet with your Indy Punk gimmick, Kennedy was in the indies, how bout Indy Kennedy, MVP was in ROH how bout Indy MVP

your just as bad as the smarks who refer to the wrestlers as there first name like they know them

if punk cant truely show what he is made of in this title reign if it lasts till summerslam then more power to you to shit on him, but give him a chance, he has been stuck in ecw for the last two years, don't forget he isn't home grown, it's pretty damn hard to win over managment not being home grown

Crimson Bonez

07-07-2008, 08:13 AM

Let's see here your saying you don't want the same people to be put over.Why, you think they have the same people put over?Do,you feel it's because they got a reason for being put over? Examples Mic skills,and Wrestling skills.People are complaining because there are a lot of people that deserve the World Title that have waited a long time.When,was the last time Jeff Hardy got a title shot,Kennedy,and MVP.MVP, could be a good championship but, he is on a different brand Smackdown not Raw.Why don't they let the talent work?Is,because they don't feel they are ready or maybe they just don't want too.I believe Vince McMahon has a good idea of what he is doing even if he makes mistakes here and their.I agree with you Triple H takes advantage of the title because he is married to the boss's daughter he can do anything he wants.Furthermore,he wants to pass Ric Flair's 16 World Title runs he had in the past.Faces, can win a couple of matches but, the The WWE writer's want you to hate the heel so they make him or her win.Clean finishes would be great to have but,you need to continue story lines so they don't have clean finishes that often or just plain and simple they put over the heel the dirty way because he is a heel and a heel's job is make you hate him and cheat to win even if you don't like the way he won!

thank you that pretty much sumed it all up on how i feel, yes i like the idea that they are trying to be dif. yes i want new ppl in the world champ spot, but there are ppl who worked harder in the wwe that diserved that spot over cm punk

HellBoundPower

07-07-2008, 08:54 AM

Personally I think all the criticism over Punk's Reign so far is unjustified. I mean, we haven't even seen where any of this is going as of yet. He just won it a week ago, and already he's getting shat all over by haters. I can understand that people don't think he's ready for it, because I don't either. But you can't already tear into his Reign as Champion when you haven't even seen how it's going to turn out.

Now, I can see why Will doesn't like Punk too much. I mean, he knocked Edge off his pedistal and took his belt. I know how big a fan of Edge Will is. I love Edge too, but Raw really needed a belt. I would've rather seen the WWE Title come back to Raw, but that's not what creative decided to do. Instead they decided to shake things up by having Money in the Bank bring the Title back to Raw. So CM Punk was really the only one that could've brought it back.

I don't know if Punk is ready to carry an entire brand, especially the biggest brand in the WWE, but I'm willing to give him a chance and see how it goes. I think it's something completely fresh and original, and it's good to see new blood on top. And if Punk's Reign sucks, they can always pull the trigger on it and give the belt to someone else.

Another thing that makes it interesting is the surprise element of who's going to take the belt off of him. They have Cena, Batista, JBL, Jericho, HBK, and others that could all be contenders for the Title. With all the possibilities, it should make for great, entertaining television in the upcoming months. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next, and I can't wait for Raw tonight.

So all in all, people need to give Punk a chance. Even if you hate him and think he sucks, enjoy Raw. Punk could lose the title at any time. So while people that enjoy him can cheer him on, people that hate him can boo him and hope he loses his Title. It's basically like a Cena Reign, except with someone fresh like Punk. Just enjoy it, because it probably won't be long until we get the same old Cena Reign anyway.

Skullz Crack'Em

07-07-2008, 10:22 AM

I am not complaining about this move by WWE, the fans wanted a change and now they got one. I was as shocked as everyone when Punk cashed in the MITB on Edge last Monday night and I actually liked it, I am not a huge Punk fan, but the guy is young, drug-free, decent in the ring, and a good role model for younger fans(almost sounds like another certain WWE star), so I cannot find a valid reason to argue against this move. RAW drew a 3.5 rating last Monday night, maybe it was because of the aftermath of Night Of Champions, or maybe it was because of Punk cashing in his MITB(so much for the theory of "Cena only=ratings"). As for people saying Edge shouldn't have lost the title, come on, it made perfect sense, he lost the title the same way he took it from Cena in 2006 and Taker in 2007 with both of his MITBs, that's called Karma, which makes for a good storyline. Also, he needed to lose the title to break off this awful La Familia/Marriage to Vicki angle on SmackDown(If I have to watch another stupid wedding angle on SmackDown, I might just shoot myself lol).

RBH

07-07-2008, 06:30 PM

This is probably the best move the WWE has done in a long time. While I hate that is was at the expense of Edge, I am glad to finally see a champion not named Orton or Cena. Punk, if they let him, will bring a fresh new face to the show named Raw. If they let him carry the show, and not immediately give the title to Cena, then the show will prosper. It will be a good show and John cena is already an established superstar that does not need the WWE World Title to get over. If he were truly that great, he would be great without the title like Rock and Austin were. CM Punk has so much potential and can be a great superstar if he and WWE capitalize on three things.
1. crowd involvement
2. wrestling
3. mic skills
That will make Punk a star if he can master all three.

BrooklynBuc

07-08-2008, 01:19 PM

I guess I'll throw my 17 cents into this one and attempt to say some credible arguments in CM Punk's favor:

First off, I'm a fan of wrestling in general. I don't hate any superstars to the point of turning off my TV or being angry they've won. From the things I've seen CM Punk in the WWE (I never saw any of his work in ROH or TNA) I'm surprised that EVERYONE wants him to turn heel. In fact, it seems every IWC member wants Cena, Cryme Tyme, Punk and Batista to turn heel. Why?! In this era of the WWE, we're almost past the point where every feud must be face vs. heel. Wrestlemania 23 provided an intense feud between The Undertaker and Batista, the two top faces on Smackdown, and both kept their status as faces. Why would Cena or Punk have to turn heel to make effective feuds? Why turn them heel period? Cena is starting down a new point where he works with Cryme Tyme, and Punk has new feuds on RAW to do. Kane turning heel I guess makes sure the face\heel line isn't tipped too far in favor of the faces, but it's not like Kane has always been a tweener type anyway. Kane and Taker have always done what they've wanted to whomever no matter what their status is. But I digress...

Will says Punk isn't deserving of the World Heavyweight Champion. He says he's crap. I respect that, but I disagree. Personally, I'm glad that they did not do the whole "Briefcase on the line" match where he loses the MITB because it was done last year. This way, it's new and fresh; it's putting a top belt on a young guy that already carried one show (ECW) as the top babyface for about 8 months between Benoit's tragedy and Kane's Wrestlemania win. Let's face it: Punk was THE top face on ECW, which may not be much to some but still, you have to start somewhere. He practically replaced Bobby Lashley once he left for RAW and took Benoit's spot after the tragedy. Could Jeff Hardy carry ECW as the top babyface if given the chance? He and Tommy Dreamer were the only two credible faces on ECW, and Dreamer was more about putting over young talent than chasing the ECW title. Punk was the go-to guy when Morrison got suspended, and the go-to guy to win Money in the Bank when Hardy got suspended. YES, I notice the trend; he benefitted when others got busted, but would they just throw it on him if he wasn't ready? Why not Jericho or MVP? Why not Matt Hardy? There had to be a reason other than "well, CM Punk doesn't do drugs so he'll never get busted..." He was the safe choice, a crowd favorite that got over because of his talent and not booking. Punk was given the ball and he ran with it for a guy who literally has three years experience, and has done more than Jeff Hardy, which includes not wasting opportunities given.

His mic work is good and his character, the straight-edge, is marketable to kids and censors who think the WWE is full of drug users. Plus, it's storyline karma for Edge; he did it twice already, and now the third time is the charm on him. Punk adds a fresh style to the WWE. His Muay Thai style is fresh and creative, and works well with every wrestler he's faced so far. There are matches\feuds to market with Cena, Batista, Kane, JBL, Jericho and Mysterio. I'm looking forward to it personally.

Again, no disrespect toward anyone who dislikes the guy, personally or professionally. Just my 17 cents...

triplesic

07-08-2008, 07:45 PM

This "title run" is going to be the most embarrassing one in recent memory if they are gonna give him guys like Snitsky.
Are you kidding? when they have a show with so many better wrestlers that he could be paired with and they give him snitsky. I'm not sure if they really want him to succeed.

If they want this to work they need to put him in some tag matches with the main eventers not, all against them.

Maybe they'll turn this thing around, but my hope are being crashed every passing second.

ShatterStar

07-09-2008, 05:48 AM

This "title run" is going to be the most embarrassing one in recent memory if they are gonna give him guys like Snitsky.
Are you kidding? when they have a show with so many better wrestlers that he could be paired with and they give him snitsky. I'm not sure if they really want him to succeed.

Reminds me of Jericho's Undisputed Title run where he was having trouble beating mid carders such as Maven. Turns out he was just keeping the belt warm until Triple H made his comeback...

Hopefully Punk's title reign is about pushing new talent instead of just hanging on to a belt until a bigger name returns.

Joker ' Ferreira

07-09-2008, 04:11 PM

First thing, I'm sick and tired of people like JBL thrown to the main-event picture, just because they kiss McMahon's ass.

Secondly, I just hope that CM Punk's title reign is short, just because he can't even work a squash match against Snitsky!

It's good that he won the belt, but now, what? Is he credible enough to carry the A-Brand all this time? No. Is Batista? Not even close, but he was in the past, WWE would at least trust him the most in this confrontation.

I do believe that Punk needs to lose the belt right now, why? He needs to improve a lot more, he is getting "stale", his in-ring skills are interesting but now they are also predictable, CM Punk is more predictable that Cena is.

And someone so young in the WWE getting "stale" is a bad, bad sign, so I hope he loses, just to win it again, maybe against a heel Batista, but I simply don't care about Dave, so, if JBL in the next night wins it, fine for me, he needs to become the next "Edge", winning the title, losing it, and winning it back and getting a good title reign, now, he doesn't deserve it and we don't need to see him as the top competitor on RAW, because, certainly he isn't.

ShatterStar

07-09-2008, 08:27 PM

First thing, I'm sick and tired of people like JBL thrown to the main-event picture, just because they kiss McMahon's ass.

Not sure if kissing ass has anything to do with it but I do agree that JBL popping up out of the blue into the title picture is getting old.

I do believe that Punk needs to lose the belt right now, why? He needs to improve a lot more, he is getting "stale", his in-ring skills are interesting but now they are also predictable, CM Punk is more predictable that Cena is.

I think Punk's matches are a bit on the stale side for the same reason RVD's were. There's only so many minutes he can wrestle for on TV and maybe he feels he has to squeeze all his high spots in. I have yet to see him in a PPV match where he has more time so I've nothing to compare to.

Honestly, I hope this isn't just another typical deal where the internet community praises a wrestler on his way to the top, then, when he gets there, the same people start bitching about every little thing he does... You know, the way they did HHH, Rock, Austin, Cena... The list goes on and on... :icon_rolleyes:

chasingamy

07-13-2008, 03:36 AM

ShatterStar

07-13-2008, 07:47 AM

With his lackluster mic skills, charisma, and often sloppy in-ring work, he’s not my idea of WHC material. And how is it that one can be WHC when he’s not even a proper main-eventer yet?!?!

How's this any different from Vince putting the strap on guys like Edge and Orton long before they were "proper" main eventers and before they could get any type of reaction from the crowd?

Vince's reasoning for quite some time now has been to put a belt on whomever he wants to go with in the hopes that they'll grow into it and we'll actually start to give a crap about them. That's a complete opposite way of thinking from what made the Attitude Era so great. Guys like Austin and The Rock were pushed because we, the fans, let Vince know that we wanted them by the reaction they got. Vince has since reversed the roles on us and is now trying to tell us who we want in the title scene.

Syxx-Pac

07-13-2008, 08:06 AM

So I finally get around to weighing in on the new World Heavyweight Champion. First off, I don’t hate Punk but I don’t like him either. So far, he just hasn’t done anything to excite me or make me care. I’d sum up CM Punk in one word: meh.

With his lackluster mic skills, charisma, and often sloppy in-ring work, he’s not my idea of WHC material. And how is it that one can be WHC when he’s not even a proper main-eventer yet?!?! Punk’s (1) barely main-evented the third-rate show, (2) had notable feuds with whom again? Morrison and Chavo. and (3) only had a handful of good matches when he’s been CARRIED by the likes of Edge, Morrison, and MVP.

Punk cashing in the briefcase and becoming the WHC was the means to an end (Raw needed a world title). And while I genuinely hope Punk makes the most of this opportunity and finally shows me something to change my mind, I believe his reign won’t be notable for his stellar promos or great in-ring skills but rather how soon and to whom he drops the belt.

Well, I think you are semi right. Punk is a good wrestler, but sometimes he bores me. I'd rather see Morrison with the belt right now. Maybe I'd be cool with it if punk won it in like 2 or 3 year. if he's with the WWE that long. I hope he drops the championship to morrison though, With Morrison going to Raw after his little tag team thingy going on with The Miz. But, I think Jeff Hardy deserves the championship WAAY more than Punk, and to think that he got a world title before Matt or Jeff makes me sick.

ShatterStar

07-13-2008, 09:39 AM

I just couldn't buy Jeff or Matt as a credible champ. Matt just doesn't get a "main eventer" reaction and with Jeff, the only reaction he gets from a live crowd is the screams of young girls... Hardly World Title material.

Had the WWE not given John Morrison this crappy "Doors" gimmick and kept him as Johnny Nitro I could see him as the next HBK. But as he is now, I just can't see him breaking out of mid-card status.

Ropow

07-13-2008, 01:19 PM

While I think that CM Punks title reign is a bit premature I'm glad that WWE is deciding the shake things up a bit. Who else could we have as WWE Champion currently? Kane is currently involved in a storyline, or at least that's what were made to believe. HBK and Chris Jericho are currently feuding so it wouldn't make sense for either of them at the moment, however I do believe the Jericho may get his shot at a title soon. We have Batista Cena and JBL who with their current standing most people would hate to see them as Champion, however a Heel Batista may be rather interesting and would add new zest to the brand. That left us with CM Punk who again may not be Main Event Headliner yet but had a method to get a title over to the Raw Brand.

It also gives a new insight that Raw is beginning to change with Triple H leaving the show for Smackdown and a few fresh faces on Raw it gives us new kind of exciting (Wrestling?!) times ahead of us.

Greg Grimes

07-13-2008, 06:55 PM

Alright so C.M Punk.. Personally I don't see the big deal with this guy. First I will say it is nice to see a new champion. But at the expense of Edge!?!?! I am not a blogger, I am not a wrestle fan master, but I do know what I like and what I see. Edge was in my eyes one of the best things going in the WWE. The draft came, he retained and HHH was going to smackdown. Let the game begin!

Then C.M Punk cashes in some lame way, even though just like Edge, the problem is, we've seen it before. I don't like repeats and I don't like it when a guys who was losing every other match on friggen ECW comes to the "A" show and can all of sudden be world champ.

Now he's not a bad wreslter, but he is a bad entertainer, hes boring, his gimmick is a striaghtedge superstar with a pepsi logo on his arm. Him on the mic is nothing interesting, its just a guy who won the belt talking about how happy he is, and telling people to challenge him for it. This is the WWE on the main show. I want to see a champion with charisma, moves, and most of all have a crowd backing him. Now the crowd backs him but its only because hes a champion. If your in a crowd and you don't cheer for a champion who do you cheer for?

At wrestlemania he won MITB match and what did he do it that match? I saw a GTS (which is not a great finisher but its a finisher) and 2 little spots. To my understanding it was suppose to be one of the Hardys getting that spot correct? SO he wins be default. Cashes in after losing matches to two much more entertaining wrestlers in my opinion, (Miz & Morrison) and some others on ECW for the months after, and then comes to Raw becomes a champion, and suddenly you all want to blow him? Get real guys, granted some time he'd do some good, but honestly I have not been show anything in the past 6 or 7 months that shows anything worthy of him getting this. Granted its nice to see younger talent getting some spotlight but the real problem is not that hes champ, but who he has to face! You got guys like Cena, Batista, JBL, Jerhico soon enough, and even a possible Undertaker coming back and you guys think C.M punk is all of a sudden at there level? Put Punk in a feud with anyone of those guys, (which will probally happen) and hes not gonna be entertaining, there gonna take that belt right off him and BAM, all the up and coming talent has to wait even longer to make its way up.

I personally as a pure fan do not see to much coming from this. Now take the belt away, but keep him in the spotlight wouldn't be a bad idea, throw him in the hunt for the IC you know, use his current title reign to bring something back to the IC, turn him heel THAT YOU ALL PRAISE AND THINK IS AWESOME, I havent seen it but, hey shit happens, have him say his eyes were bigger then his stomach and get hi in some feuds with some other people and see what happens.

All I know is I think you are highly overrating this guy and its gonna come back and smack you in the face. I could be wrong but I think Vince got it wrong this time, we'll see.