Can wwe ever repeat the success of the period 1999-2003

[slimmshady]

Personally, I believe that in the future, a time will come when wwe will rise again but it will never again become as successful and entertaining as the period of 1999 to 2003. Those years were the greatest. A major reason for this was the amount of talent that was coming into the industry. Think about it, there was so many great wrestlers that entered the wwe yet there was hardly any serious injuries to any of them. I feel that this was probably because the wrestlers didn't have to push themselves (because of the success), as hard as they do now. Therefore resulting in fewer wrestlers needing time off to recover. Nowadays I feel that wrestlers are forced to do something out of the blue, for the audience. For example, look whats happened to rey mysterio. The guy just got back from rehabilitation and a few months later he gets injured again. I can't imagine what wwe will be like in a few years once the undertaker and kane (and other legends such as triple h, Shawn Michaels etc...)hang up their boots.I think that its kinda wwe's fault for their recent poor success. They continued to release wrestlers for no apparent reason (such as A-train, the dudleys, the list goes on) and the failure to alter some contracts for long term wrestlers (such as King Booker, Kurt Angle, Goldberg, again the list goes on). And now they are suffering for doing this. What ever happens in the future, I will always treasure those years.

[Sicko]

NOPE!

don't think so!

WWE lacks a crossover star right now like Austin and The Rock, those guys was able to reach out to fans that really did not watch Raw every week, currently besides maybe Cena, WWE lacks that right now

also backstage politics is destroying this business, some guys have all the power back stage and they can basically do what they want, push who ever they want no matter what the fans want or think, I for one am very tired of the same fued going in circles basically:headscratch: Orton vs HHH again? then after that fued is over then what? HHH vs Regal that would be new but Regal as a Main Event guy? not sure if I am buying that one but I like Regal as a heel


but honestly only way WWE will make a better effort is if TNA really starts to get a spike in Ratings and really start to become a threat

what ever happen to the backstage storylines like back in the day when for weeks everyone wondered who Ran Over Austin, or that DDP stocking the Undertaker and his wife that was good TV I thought, at least it kept people watching every week, bring stuff like that back

[MrScott]

they could reach it again with ease, its just people wont let go of the past, always wanting things to be how they were, always wanting that star that was like someone else. nothing goes back to exactly like it was, and no star will ever truely be like another. and untill people stop shoving this "the next such and such" on people, most talent will never grow to who they can truely be, and you'll never experience what a new era can bring to you

[slimmshady]

I understand what you guys are saying but like I said earlier, there will come a time when wwe's popularity will boost back up but the question is when? How much do the wwe desire that hunger for dominance again. To be honest with the tna point that MrScott made previously how the ratings of tna can effect wwe's future. Well, recently I watched a bit of tna and personally I think the way in which they are approaching their wrestling isn't really going to motivate wwe to beat tna's ratings. I mean look whats happening, a former wwe wrestler, sharkboy, is trying to take the mick out of stone cold but the funny thing is, know one really takes him seriously. For crying out loud, the guy wears a mask with a cheesy grin printed on it and some undies he probably found in a garbage dump. No one took him seriously in the wwe so he's trying to imitate the texas rattlesnake on his brand. Now that tells me what tna are like. Don't even get me started on Curryman. But the truth is, the reason why we, as the wwe fans, have loved the past was because of these unique, individual gimmicks/wrestlers that have really lifted the wwe from the ground. Wrestlers like the undertaker, kane, triple H, the great one (the rock), Stone Cold and the list goes on. Matches amongst these great wrestlers have been a true honor for all the wwe fans and we want to see more of them. That is really what the problem is with wwe. Firstly, they are really struggling to bring up new talent as wrestlers like kane were willing to put their individual reputations on the line in order to bring up the new talent. However, that seems to keep failing (that's probably why kane got the push for a title opportunity. Secondly, wwe are also struggling to balance the right amount of matches amongst the right amount of wrestlers (e.g. balancing the right amount of matches when the brothers of destruction are reunited and then followed by a break). These are problems that during the period of 1999-2003 would never have occurred because wwe had the right balance of youth with the established wrestlers. To be honest they actually had more established wrestlers entering the wwe consistently due to the take over of wcw.

[FoleyIsGod]

they could reach it again with ease, its just people wont let go of the past, always wanting things to be how they were, always wanting that star that was like someone else. nothing goes back to exactly like it was, and no star will ever truely be like another. and untill people stop shoving this "the next such and such" on people, most talent will never grow to who they can truely be, and you'll never experience what a new era can bring to you

The reason why we will not let go is because the prdouct the WWE throws at us sucks at times.

Cena being rammed down our next, granted, he was redhot as the cocky, repping heel, but as a goofy babyface, diehards like me cannot buy into him. The crap offense and poor moveset are a joke. It might appeal to 30% of the audience(who are kids), but the rest of us its just crap.

The best storylines and matchups that have been recently were the Smackdown shows run by Paul Heyman, Benoit, Angle, Lesnar, Edge, Rey Mysterio, the Gurerros. These guys had smoking hot matches whilst over on the Triple H show, he was squashing anyone who was remotely close to taking his popularity.

Look at Ecw. They could make that show huge, more risky(due to being late night) and generally raise hell to try and bring back anything that will draw.

[Jonny B]

I don’t think the WWE can hit that level of success anytime soon, of course it’s possible we all know the Wrestling Industry is in one massive loop there is bound to be a boom at some point in the future.

One of the reasons it will be so hard for them to replicate what they did back in 1999 (you can probably go back to 1998 to be honest) is one reason… Stone Cold Steve Austin. The Vince vs. Stone Cold storyline was completely fresh and new, every person who ever had a dick for a Boss wanted to be Stone Cold, wanted to stick it to the man etc… and that storyline will never be able to be replicated with the same amount of response from the fans, because it has been done and times have moved on. Of course there was a lot more going on around then, you had The Rock rising to become one of the biggest draws in the history of the company, Undertaker running around doing crazy shit… the rest of the Belts really meant something, sure there was some crap thrown in, but on the whole the whole product was completely amazing and you could watch RAW and then Smackdown every week with a reason to tune in.

WWE do have the talent available to them to give us a character such as Stone Cold, The Rock etc… but right now they don’t have a hook for them. There is nothing to grasp onto and draw the casual fans back into wrestling. That’s going to be the problem for a while, until they can grab that catalyst to bring the Industry into a Boom we are going to be left feeling like this doesn’t match up to years gone by.

[Mighty NorCal]

Jonny is right. Until the next "huge new thing" comes along, it wont have the same success rate. Back in the first boom, it was Hulkamania, the second boom, Austin, and Austin Vs Mcmahon. Until the next gigantic Personality comes along, or the next huge storyline comes along, the company cant expect to see the same success. Its only a matter of time I think though, its all cylical. I consider this just a better version of the "new era" period.

[misskim]

I know it's been said over and over but it is truly the lack of competition that is holding WWE back from making good TV. Think about it, WWE right now are making great profit, they have THREE shows on somewhat mainstream channels, they have complete monopoly on wrestling today. There is really absolutely no need for them to change anything from current status quo.

I read that they broke their record in earnings on their recent European tour so just why should they bother? I think Vince and USA would be just as happy with RAW even if it just made 2.x in ratings so really why change?

It sucks for us who are bit older but that's the way it is. I just hope that everyone who cheered when WCW died realize how retarded they were, and the same goes for the people wishing TNA dies.

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

IMO it will take more than one or two guys to become big draws to save the company. They have these two guys already, and as much as ppl won't like me saying it, IMO its Cena and Batista. Orton and Edge have worked their way up to being near that spot, and all the other top guys are the remaining guys from the Attitude era. Much like WCW had Sting and Goldberg as two guys who worked their way up WCW and joined all the old WWE guys in the top spots. For a guy to get a character over, he needs to just b himself with the volume turned up. Guys like Kennedy shud receive his promo cue card, remember the key points that creative want him to say, and then jus make up the rest. We know DX got fined in the beginning for their antics until ppl wanted to see it and Vince said 'Oh, ppl like that? Better keep doing it then.' Do you really think the Rock was given a cue card that read "Don't forget to call Kevin Kelly a hermaphrodite." Probably not.

But what WWE really needs is to plan thier PPVs and rivalries far in advance. PPV matches shud have a month long build, and either follow on to the next part of the rivalry or create grounds for a new one. Batista v HBK at Backlash shud have ended with Jericho screwing one of them over to start a bitter fued, not calling HBK a liar on the highlight reel (altho that was a damn funny segment), and then havin a match announced on wwe.com.
The brand extension also doesn't allow for lots of the younger mid carders chance to get on PPV unless they're a champ (I can't remember the last time i saw London and Kendrick on PPV) because all the match time is taken up with the big names from 3 separate shows. The Divas HAVE to have a match even if there's no build just so they get PPV time. Did we really need to see Big Show v Khali? Couldn't we have had Carlito and Santino winning the tag belts instead (especially as Holly/Rhodes haven't defended them in 4 months!)?

Let's look at Summerslam '99 (one of my all time faves). Each match on the card (except the Women's title match) was either the conclusion of a long fued, or the beginning of a new one. Here's the card and how it developed.

1. D'lo Brown v J. Jarrett for the IC/Euro belts. Jarrett had lost the IC belt to D'lo on Raw, and was having trouble with Debra (his valet). D'lo had won the Euro title the month b4, had been helping Mark Henry (his tag partner) lose weight and was becoming a fan favourite. Debra convinces everyone that she's leaving JJ by coming down w/ D'lo. Distarcts the ref at the end, and Mark Henry comes in and costs D'lo both belts with a guitar shot. This then put JJ and Debra over as bigger heels, and started a D'lo/Henry fued for the Euro belt (which JJ gave to Henry)

2. Tag Turmoil match:- Started w/ Edge/Christian vs New Brood (Hardys) w/ Gangrel. So there's a fued between these two teams. They wrestle the majority of the match and E+C beat the Hardys, which wud lead into their massive tag fued which the Dudley's wud get involved in l8r. E+C squash the next two teams (Mideon/Viscera + Droz/Albert), but at least those teams got some exposure on PPV, and then get beaten by the Acolytes. Then the Hollys come out who'd only formed a team the week before, we get to check them out and then Farooq and Bradshaw leave victorious, because in '99 they were the team that cud crush anyone.

3. Al Snow v Big Bossman Hardcore belt w/ Road Dogg doing on the spot commentary. Road Dogg got on PPV to talk and hit Bossman w/ a nightstick. This fued was a month old now, where Al had ditched Head and gotten Pepper. It then led to Snow eating Pepper, and the whole Kennel From Hell fiasco, but hell, a fued is a fued.

4. Women's title match - Just there for the Women really. Ivory beat Tori if you care.

5. Lion's Den Weapon's Match Shamrock v Blackman. This fued started 2 months b4 with Shamrock always winning in matches, Blackman attacking backstage. Both guys speciality matches combined into one to end the fued, Shamrock wins.

6. Test V Shane for the right to date Steph. Great match, great build up with Test crippling the whole MSP, and then fighting Shane w/ the Posse always interfering (the Mean Street Posse NEVER won a match, yet were involved in one of the biggest matches in the card) First time u see Shane dive thru the announce table, first time u see Shane wrestle properly. Great match, great finish with the Stooges. Fued ends, steph/test angle continues.

7. Taker/Big Show v Kane/Xpac Tag Titles. (Fave match on this card) Everyone's fave underdog tag team at the time (coz Kane always had to do all the work) versus the two guys you DONT want forming a team. This started as Kane and Taker beating the crap out of Big Show. Xpac cost Taker the World title at Fully Loaded so Taker tried to cripple him. Kane comes out to save, suddenly out comes Big Show and we have a new unstoppable tag team. We saw Kane's character develop further as he was torn between his friend and his backstabbing brother. Kane learns of Taker's betrayals and sides w/ Xpac, and pays for it. Taker and Show obliterate Xpac after Taker hits the best move in all of wrestling (tombstone piledriver) and we have new tag champs. This wud lead into Taker/ Show vs Rock and Sock for the next month, then Taker went on the shelf til the following June so any other fueds had to b scrapped.

Rock v Mr Ass in a Kiss My Ass match.
Mr Ass cost the Rock the no. 1 contendership at Fully Loaded. Was supposed to show Billy cud hang with the big boys (he was KOTR after all) and he didn't really pull it off. Rock won, fued ended, Rock did RocknSock, Billy hooked back up w/ Road Dogg after a coupla months of nothing.

Triple Threat Match Austin v HHH w/ Chyna v Mankind w/ Jesse Ventura the guest ref.
We saw months of HHH working his way up to the no. 1 contendership. Begins attacking Austin, forced to put the title shot on the line against Taker and Chyna, Chyna wins thanks to Austin. Chyna defends it against HHH, wins it thanks to Foley. Foley challenges Chyna for title shot and wins it. HHH challenges Foley for title shot and no one wins, so becomes triple threat. Foley wins the match after being added to it the week before, HHH injures Austin to spark their fued several months down the line, and the night after HHH gets his title win and his career soars even higher from that point on.

I can't remember a PPV since 2001 that had that sort of detail in every segment. If you can think of one please put it up here because i'd like to be reminded.

Now, every match on that card either had an amazing build, or started off a new fued or was used to showcase guys who didn't have anything to do at that stage. That's the sort of writing the WWE needs to go back to doing otherwise if we don't see these guys wrestling/doing a promo etc in a scripted programme for a week or two with a big climax we forget about them, or we immediately think 'well they'll b let go or jus stick around jus for a paycheck.'

When we get to see all our faves (not just the Main Eventers) being used regularly and effectively again, we'll see WWE ratings go back up IMO.

(Sorry, i know that went on for ages but i cudn't get my point across without all that.)

[TNABlowssssss]

MUST READ: I think a lot of you will agree to what i have to say. And i agree with a lot of you as well. WWE lacks a lot to bring its success top ratings in the 4s and 5s. It will be hard to get there, but they can. There roster on Smackdown and RAW is weak. To me they need to combine shows. If you look at there ratings histroy, there ratings were solid from 1998-2002. It hit the shitter in 2002 right after Wretlemania. They had the first ever draft 2 weeks after, the shows split right after the draft, and 3 weeks later after the draft was over the ratings stayed in the 3.x. They have not gone above a 4.5 since may 2002. Exactly a month after people realized that the draft was probably the dumbest thing they did. I watch RAW every week, and barely watch Smackdown because i dont have time and there roster blows with the exception of Undertaker, Batista and Edge. If the shows were combined again i would watch both shows every week. Im sure im not the only one who agrees or im not the only one that does that. Along with combining the shows, doing that would make the Tag Team Division better, The Intercontinental Division better and make for better feuds. To this day i think it was very dumb for them getting rid of the Hardcore Title. I thought that made crappy wrestlers like murdoch, cade, festus, and other mid-low card wrestlers look good. The Hardcore Title gave fans excitement, fun, and laughs as well. The 24/7 rule was one of the funniest things ever. To this day i still think it should be part of the show. The IC Title lost a lot of its relevance and prestige and that needs to be brought back which would help WWE. I use to enjoy watching feuds for that title. Now they dont even do it!!! Chris Jericho has it now and WWE should run with that and give him a good feud, not a special referee in a match. WWE is getting dumb! They are just not being smart with what they have. Another big problem is they are focusing on kids more. That is the number one most dumb this they are doing. WTF r they thinking! they tryed it once in the 90s and the ratings how how bout it was. They did horrible. I coach a little league baseball team and some kids have told me they dont watch wrestling because they are not aloud or go to bed at 9PM. They need to target teens like they did in 1998-2002. Use profanity, jokes, bra and panties matchs and more. Jerry doesnt even say PUPPIES any more. They wont use blood any more!! WTF, stop bein gay and target teens, not little kids. It just bothers me to watch sometimes because i loved the attitude era and the excitement, WWE has no excitement with everything they are doing. NONE! Please feel free to comment on my post, would love to keep this going!!

[Danmen001]

There is a very very small chance, that the WWE will ever have the sucess they had in that time period.

The WWE in that time, had the ability to use original undone ideas. They had wrestlers with great abilities. They could throw us the most interesting things because they were original. Everything has been done now. They have nothing original to show us at all.

The WWE will have to do their best to find talent like no other to bring back interest. Those like MVP, Mrr. Kennedy must hold the future to the WWE, if they can't bring back a small amount of interest..... then the chances are slim for the WWE.

All matches on the cards are less interesting these days, less build, less talent. When the time comes, a big success will probably come back to the company. But it will never be the same.

[slimmshady]

Got to say, the old titles need resurrecting because the more titles wwe has, the more chance the youth get an opportunity to lift there game and the more the wwe has of brining out another huge talent. Currently they've got about 10 titles, if even that. That's not as nearly enough as they did in the past. Also they need to bring back some more ppv, such as insurrection, bad blood etc....For some reason the number of ppv were decreased.

[Dysturbed]

I'm for the most part repeating what I wrote in another thread, but it applies here as well.

The most successful of primetime programs eventually decline in ratings and/or quality or go off of television before they get a chance to do so but WWE keeps on going. With that in mind I don't think that WWE will ever reach the same level again, at least ratings wise because it just doesn't seem realistic that it would happen.

That's not to say that it won't have a boom of some sort, just that it probably won't be to quite the same extent based on the fact that when it was at it's peak we saw a lot of new things while now it's hard to come by for what are understandable reasons imo. here is nothing comparable to it as far as creating as much new programming per year for a scripted primetime program, at least in America. Soap operas are the only examples of scripted programming here that create more new shows per year but I'm referring to primetime. Also it's my understanding that daytime soaps also become repetitive and uncreative while recycling storylines.

So when a show has 52 shows per year with no repeats for this many years in a row, it's inevitable for creativity to lack imo and with the creativity lacking, chances are that reaching the past level will be difficult.

Even though having fresh ideas that aren't comparable to something else is difficult and having enough to make a massive difference is even more difficult, certain things that we used to get can still happen if WWE wanted them to. For example I miss when two wrestlers would have a big midcard feud and then over the years it would move up to main events. Now there are still plenty of long lasting rivalries that last years but it's not quite the same. Conceivably it can still happen though, even with the split.

[Skullz Crack'Em]

The ratings last Monday were terrible, but I wouldn't blame that solely on Triple H like most people, WWE is stuck in a never-ending vortex of doing the same crap over and over again. The truth is, it wouldn't matter who the champion is at this point, the ratings are falling because storylines are always the same and RAW has the same damn layout every week: Promo--Tag match--Promo--Squash Match-- Promo--Women's Match--Promo--Main Event. As for people praising John Cena for getting these "Godly" ratings, give me a break, Cena was the top guy on RAW when ratings started to decline in the first place. Also, John was announced to be in a Main Event right from the get-go Monday night, so if he is truly the saviour, than why didn't the ratings skyrocket during his air time? Triple H was only in a promo at the beginning of the show, so the ratings drop definitely wasn't his fault, the Main Event(s) is what the WWE uses to grab the viewers and keep them watching for the whole two hours.

As for the Million Dollar giveaway, I don't think it is going to help the ratings at all, it just shows how desperate Vince is. I am liking RAW a lot more than I did last year, but that doesn't mean I am saying RAW is brilliant because it still needs a lot of improvement.

The real Million Dollar question is: Are we looking at the next WCW?

[slimmshady]

I agree to the fact that I think everyone can see clearly how desperate Vince is at the moment. I mean the guy's giving cash out from his own pocket to the fans. Don't know about you guys but I've never seen that happen before. But the thing is some of you guys are trying to blame it on the wrestlers such as cena and triple H. But the fact is, when john cena was the wwe champ on smackdown, it would seem to me that most people liked his rapper gimmick but as soon as he arrived on raw, well I don't really have to explain what happened next.
Another thing that needs mentioning is it looks to me that wwe seem not to be concentrating on ecw as much as raw and to a certain extent, smackdown. I can remember a few years back when wwe was suggesting of bringing some ecw tag team championship belts but that idea was scrapped when the smackdown titles were won by two ecw wrestlers (miz/morrison). What I'm trying to say is, like I said previously, some old titles need to be brought back such as the hardcore title, specifically for ecw etc, and some old ppv's need to be brought back too.
To me, the only way that the ratings could go up again is really for Vince to decide to buy TNA (thats if TNA agrees) and a conflict between both brands occured like the invasion scenario. But the problem is, there aren't really any signs that TNA are increasing their popularity so that idea is most likely out of the equation.

[buddy_z34]

why is it that the ratings keep going down? its not just one one show but all wrestling shows. RAW, ECW, SD and TNA.

RAW this week was below a 3.0 rating. ECW is stuck at 1 ratings and SD is inbetween with 2 ratings. while Impact is below a 1.

would it be wise for there to be another War. or does Vince not care as long as he's making the dough?

the excitment is not there anymore like in the Attitude Era. only the real wrestling fans tune in each week it seems.

is this the start of the end for wrestling as we know it?

[MrScott]

TNA isn't strong enough yet for a proper war, untill there getting even with smackdown, there not even enough of a worry to the WWE yet. That being said they'll probably start being noticed more if they pass ECW which would be the start of the WWE more then likely trying to kick things up a little.

[Trumike]

I think that the problem is everything is so old and overdone.TNA is made up of WWE rejects. WWE gots the same people against each other over and over. I think if the WWE could somehow get some people like James Storm and Robert Roode to their company rating would go up some and as they build up their characters the rating would go up. Something new. Two guys who can get over.

[Big Daddy Fool]

what led to the success of 1999-2003 was wwe letting go of old stars like the hogan and savage and built new ones like michaels, rock, stone cold ,triple H. those stars were allowed to get on to the tops because of none of the old guys getting in there way. the gus the wwe let go (hogan and savage) as well as old wcw mainstays didnt leave their spots as main eventers and wouldnt put over younger talent which led to their companies demise.

right now the refusal to give up your spot as a main eventer (triple h shawn michaels cough cough) is hurting the business. triple prides himself of being a wrestling purist and doing what is right for the business but keeping himself on top and having be in almost every ppv main event is hurting. he's on his 12th reign right now and you know for sure hes gonna break naitchs record so until triple h retires i dont see how we're going to get back to the glory days

there is hope new young superstars are emerging and if guys like kennedy, morrison, the hardys, and mvp and others are alloed to get be put over i feel like the wwe can be drawing plus 5 ratings again soon

[Youalreadyknow420]

I can bet it has to do with the fact HHH is old and is doing the same shyt John CEna was. No one want another yr long reign from cena . Jeff hardy is garbage and a dope fiend. So right now they seem to have no plans to crown a new champ(someone who hasn't been champ yet that deserves it). Tna is great but i wil say its a lil more entertaining. Plus raw is 80% talking 20% wrestling.

[slimmshady]

Vince obviously does care for the future of the business or else he wouldn't try the $1 million giveaway. Is it going to work or not? Is a different point but nonetheless, he does want the ratings to increase. Maybe the wwe should take it to the next level and grant some wwe fans the privilege to create their own scripts for one broadcast show and see whats happens from there onwards. Maybe we have the right knowledge to manage the wwe in a proper manor and give each wrestler what they deserve.

[Dysturbed]

Maybe the wwe should take it to the next level and grant some wwe fans the privilege to create their own scripts for one broadcast show and see whats happens from there onwards. Maybe we have the right knowledge to manage the wwe in a proper manor and give each wrestler what they deserve.

Having a fan get the privilege of giving input and maybe having at least one or two ideas used is one thing but the actual script idea is going way overboard imo, though I do appreciate your thought.

There are thousands of wrestling fans and yes a lot of them/us agree on certain things but overall I doubt that there are even two people who have exactly identical taste. Two people could like or dislike the exact same wrestlers for example with the exception of one. Therefore, which so many different overall visions of what is truly "deserved" and what is "proper" it's just not realistic for there to be a proper way to manage it like you suggested.

It's easy for all of us to sit on our butts at home and say what's right and wrong (and fun as well) but if most of our ideas were actually executed who knows how many people would trash our ideas? The fact that so many people inevitably would, since not everyone can always be pleased, negates the thought of "proper management."

[slimmshady]

I understand that managing the wwe is a difficult task but isn't the wwe meant to be directed to the fans? Actually all tv shows are directed to the fans but nonetheless, what I'm trying to say is, maybe the wwe should listen to the fans a bit more than sitting back and allowing the ratings to decline. However, in the current situation that the wwe is in, it seems to me that there is a sense of panic within the business. Now this tells me that they were too relaxed thinking that the ratings would eventually increase as they hadn't made any new decisions that could lead to increasing the ratings since 2003. Then from all of a sudden, they panic and Vince decides that giving out money is the best way to increase the ratings.

[One&Only]

I don't think WWE will ever repeat the success hey had the storylines back then where good and different the tag team division and cruiserweight division on fire.Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle where there and they could put on good match with anybody. Paul Heyman was there and he is just simply enertaining.And wwe now is the complete opposite the superstars that they have and could be big draws in the future they don't even push but they will push superstars like Snitsky, Mike Knox, and Vladimer Kozlov who suck.

[Dysturbed]

I understand that managing the wwe is a difficult task but isn't the wwe meant to be directed to the fans? Actually all tv shows are directed to the fans but nonetheless, what I'm trying to say is, maybe the wwe should listen to the fans a bit more than sitting back and allowing the ratings to decline.

Yes but there's no definitive way to make every fan happy. Look no further than these forums where the opinions that exist here can be multiplied by thousands to get the total number of fans in existence. So many people have opposite views about various subjects. If they listened to the opinions of thousands about a specific thing they'd still piss off thousands of others who feel the opposite. Therefore, no matter what they do they are in fact catering to fans, just not to all with each specific decision cause that's virtually impossible.

I agree that they should make changes but I've yet to ever see a suggestion that would conceivably be 100% foolproof. As stated when shows that are on a lot less run out of ideas or lower their ratings they're gone but WWE keeps on going and chances are that new concepts are going to be rare. The fact that despite lower ratings Raw is still amongst the top rated cable shows each week, sometimes the top rated, speaks volumes that things probably aren't as dire as people claim. Yes Vince giving out money appears to be desperate but do we factually know that it is? Who knows what the money thing entails. It seemed pretty clear that he's handing out a million in "cash" but maybe it's just some sort of Dibiase tie in and has a double meaning that we are yet to be aware of. We've yet to hear the details yet most people as always makes a firm judgment. Even if it is him literally giving out money, companies that are not in any danger do it and people don't assume the worst.

WWE is far from perfect and I fully agree like I said that something should make it more enticing but like I also said even though they should "listen to the fans" what exactly does that mean when not all fans have a shared opinion of what the one concrete correct way is of going about things.

[AnthonyM4]

I think the question should be can they repeat the success of 1997-2001? That was when the last boom period occurred. I think wwe needs to let the wrestlers be themselves and stop scripting the damn promos! Also there needs to be no more politics. I mean, it seems in the last five years that if Vince didn't want you to be over, he'd bury you. Look at RVD and CM Punk. RVD was getting cheered like crazy when he came in 2001 and I thought he'd be the next big thing in wwe. But since he was an ecw creation, Vince buried him and people stopped caring. Same goes for CM Punk.

[Dysturbed]

I think wwe needs to let the wrestlers be themselves and stop scripting the damn promos!

That's actually something that Austin said that he was strongly for. I wish that WWE would be like ECW in the respect of not bsing the fans cause that would give a more "real" feel to what we know has predetermined elements. For example if someone was injured they'd flat out said it and wouldn't have a storyline reason for it a lot of the time. WWE usually has a storyline dictated reason which I understand but I'd love a more "real" element.


since he was an ecw creation, Vince buried him and people stopped caring. Same goes for CM Punk.

I know that the non WWE creation thing is a common complaint against Vince and many examples seem to hold it true but there are also examples of non WWE creations doing extremely well and there are examples of WWE creations being "buried." So I think that people put too much stock in that theory

[#1Edgehead]

they could if superstars like brock lesnar stone cold and the rock would come back but i dont see that hapening

[slimmshady]

Just to recap my point that I made earlier, about the number of long term injuries increasing in the wwe. Well, we've just witnessed another one, this time to randy orton and by the looks of it, this blow could really come to haunt him as he ages. I mean, any blow to your clavicle could have a major effect in the future. But back to my point, I've noticed that wrestlers, these days, in the wwe are forced to push themselves to the limit in order to put on a good show, risking their lives and health. However, back in the olden days I can't recall, that many wrestlers getting injured in a calendar year. For example, rey mysterio had to take surgery twice in a year in order to get back into the ring. All this might be happening because of the lack of originality in the storylines therefore wrestlers maybe forced to take more risks in order to entertain us (like john morrisons moon salt, with a ladder, at wrestlemania. Now if that went wrong...God knows what could've happened). What do you guys think of this?

[Dragonslayer]

what led to the success of 1999-2003 was wwe letting go of old stars like the hogan and savage and built new ones like michaels, rock, stone cold ,triple H. those stars were allowed to get on to the tops because of none of the old guys getting in there way. the gus the wwe let go (hogan and savage) as well as old wcw mainstays didnt leave their spots as main eventers and wouldnt put over younger talent which led to their companies demise.


Now well, I've seen this type of discussion quite often now, but as far as this particular point is concerned, I beg to differ.

WWE didn't become great in the instant they let go of their top stars like Hogan and Savage, and later Nash and Hall. They all left in the early to mid 1990ies, in a time where the over-the-top gimmicks (Doink and all those fancy guys) were Vince's state-of-the-art in WWE, and what happened? They all went to WCW, and WCW took the ball for a few years and actually did what WWE at that point couldn't do yet - it went into a completely new direction. Everyone is always talking about WWE's "Attitude", and while I agree that some of the stars the WWE later managed to produce (Austin, Rock, HHH, Angle) were really spectacular, to my mind, it was years before Austin and Rock really took off that "attitude" was introduced into the wrestling business, and that was done by WCW in the form of the nWo!

Nothing of the like had been there before - Hogan, Nash and Hall were heels, but heels people could both completely despise, but at the same time somehow thought "cool". They had that rebel attitude that would later make Austin and Rock such huge stars - and those were the same guys that WWE had kicked out "in order to let their young stars build" - but that's not my opinion. From the days when Hogan and Savage left, please tell me which big star is still in WWE now OR which was already around then who rose to such stardom because of those guys being let go? Rock and Austin weren't even around back then, the only guys I now remember from the top of my head would be Taker and HBK.

Which is not to say that letting Hogan etc... go was a bad move - since WWE at the time had no idea what to do with their product, and those guys cost them a ton of money without bringing enough in at the time, it was the only logical move they could have made. Good for us, as Bischoff picked it up with WCW and gave the WWE the competition it needed to finally get their own asses in gear and do something about their own product. And in my opinion, it was not until 2 years later, after WCW had really changed the wrestling landscape with THEIR new "attitude", that WWE finally came through with their own new stars, and their legendary era of incredible success; also thanks to WCW, who in turn where in the position WWE had been in years earlier - in that they didn't know what to do with their programming anymore, storylines were crap, the talent was not there or wasted, and everything just went FUBAR at some point. On the contrary to WWE though WCW did not manage to recover, and ultimately went out of business.

Which leads us to today, practically - since without any (in Vince's eyes) noteworthy competition on the landscape right now with TNA still being no real threat to what is essentially WWE's market monopoly, there are basically 2 main reasons why the ratings are declining, and why WWE's shows are "not as good as they used to be":

1) They got lazy again since they don't have that competition
2) About everything that can be done, has been done

Additionally, few of WWE's greatest Attitude-Era stars are still there - HBK and Taker only, with both having not too many years left anymore before they will have to end their careers unfortunately, and HHH; however in his position he is a bit over-represented as we all know. So until WWE has once again built up their "new breed" of stars that can follow in the footsteps of today's top stars (which are, simply put, only HHH, HBK and Taker - everyone else that is considered top tier still comes in as close second as far as popularity is concerned, in my opinion), this doesn't make things easier. For if all they can do is essentially recycle things that have been done time and again (which is inevitably bound to happen as they will not be willing to push the envelope any further with their new direction back to kids; aside from the question whether there still ARE any boundaries left to push for them), even that can be done interestingly if they have the charismatic talent for that. But right now, that is still missing. There are a few hopefuls, but it will take some time before we (and they) will be able to see who of those guys can eventually make it, and who will remain a flavor of the month.

The other problems they have are of course:

1) Their new direction back towads kids as main audience, as mentioned before
2) The roster split

Now the first point I think most people on the forums will agree with me - as many of us are a bit older and quite vividly remember the edgier, more adult-oriented stuff we used to love about the Attitude Era. Of course we want that blood, we want that violence, we want that "no-bs-attitude". But well, it seems we'll have to live with that we're getting right now.

And as far as the roster split is concerned... Now of course that subject has also always been a matter of many a heated discussion; my take on it is this:

While I basically understand the notion behind it - being that WWE nowadays has a truly massive roster, and everyone needs their TV time; but in my opinion, that is just a money making move; but of course everyone in their position who COULD make that move, WOULD make it; even if it probably meant reducing the quality of the programming. But as said, with their currenty monopoly status, they can afford it (or at least they thought they could until the most recent desastrous ratings).

Anyway, what my (wishful) thinking on that matter would be:

First: Scrap half the belts. Someone mentioned before that WWE has "only 10 belts or so" right now, and thought it few - please, sweet Lords, back in the day, how many belts did WWE have? There was the World, the IC, the Tag Titles as your basic setup, and then from time to time they would also use the Women's, Euro and Hardcore. But that's it. WCW had the World, the US, the Tag, the TV, the Cruiser. Also enough. In my opinion, as I still consider WWE an entity, no matter the brand division, having that many titles just takes away from the value of each of them.

Back in the day of only one main title, that thing was THE PRIZE. You know what I mean? Everyone was ultimately gunning for THAT PRIZE, everyone needed to have it. Now, you have what essentially is three "equally best" stars - what kind of crap is that?! The top title is to mean that ONE GUY is the absolute best; but now all of a sudden we have three guys who are supposed to be the absolute best?! And the same goes for the US and IC belts. Back in the day, those still meant something, and they were a clear indication of a superstar being in consideration for a move up the card in the near future. Nowadays, those belts change lightly - however most recently, I think we've seen a move in the right direction, with both the Hardy/MVP feud over the US and Jericho's tenure as IC champ respectively - I think this indicates that those belts are intended to be taken more seriously again, with both being in possession of guys who are (Jericho) or could be (MVP, Hardy) considered main event status.

Plus, I just HATE that spinner belt. I remember the day when Bret Hart was World Heavyweight Champion - and that belt, in my mind, was the most beautiful of them ever; the WCW one never did that much for me even though it is huge, and nowadays, this spinner-thing looks like a freakin' toy - NOT the thing you would want THE TOP GUY of a wrestling company to have. I just can't take a champion wearing that seriously.

Now I see two options that I would take: Either cut down the roster (which would be a very drastic move of course), reunite the brands, and focus on decent storylines with that couple of stars that would remain around only a select few belts which then in turn would again really MEAN something, if A LOT of guys would go after each of them. You would have about 6 or 7 guys being potential World Title candidates (e.g. Taker, HBK, HHH, Edge, Cena, Orton, Batista) who could at any given team have feuds with each other (and wouldn't need to fight each other week after week after week in the same constellation over and over again, so that the actual PPV match means less in the conclusion), you would have the same number of almost-top tier guys who could work on the IC scene (right now Jericho, JBL, Umaga, the Hardys, MVP, Kennedy, CM Punk, John Morrison), and so on. Without the roster split, I think the main advantage would be the greater flexibility both in feud variations and especially in weekly matches - instead of seeing the same pairing every week one on one even though that type of showdown match should be reserved for the PPV, there could be many different setups. That, together with a more elaborate long-term angle build up I think could do wonders, even IF all the stuff we get to see "has been done" before.

And even if a roster cut seems drastic - but honestly, do we really need Deuce and Domino? Do we really need Cade and Murdoch? Do we really need characters like the Highlanders? Especially those heavy gimmick guys (like D&D) just will never move up to the top spot - the only guy with a "gimmick" up there is Undertaker - the rest are all just more or less "normal" guys, of course with the volume turned up, as it is often said.

But even if they kept the roster split - the least thing I would do is once again unify the World titles into one UNDISPUTED title, to once again determine THE ABSOLUTE BEST at that moment. This would open the door for more cross-brand-feuds, and also feuds between the brands themselves, as each brand would of course strive to be the one that has the World title at any time.

Now in closing my "little" rant - I just wanted to sum up my thoughts on the whole situation with WWE (and with wrestling in general) as I see it right now; of course I do not claim that all my ideas are great... but a very wise man once said: "I can't promise everything will become good if things change - but I know things have to change if it is supposed to become better." So I guess change definitely needs to happen in one form or the other; be it that WWE restructures their program, be it that TNA finally picks up momentum and pressures WWE to restructure their program... there are many ways, and I'm quite curious to see what will come.

So guys, sorry for the tirade - lol I guess not many of you will have read it anyways (which I can completely understand lol). But consider this one of my "welcome" posts to the forums ;)

[Mr-excitement]

They wont get back there.

Understand this when the NITRO BOON started NO ONE knew Hogan was turning heel and people tuned in week after week for clues. The NWO arrival was also unpredictable week after week and a 2 hour LIVE show in primetime had not been done for a long time.

Now everything is leaked early and you can see most turns coming a MILE away. The characters are uninteresting and dont evolve. Neither do the stories.

A bigger question is will the WWE ratings sink down to a 2.5 average? I expect Vince to go to three hours and that will really hurt him.

[slimmshady]

I really feel for vince and the wwe as nothing is really going right for them. Firstly, there are too many major injuries occurring, such as the recent Randy Orton and big show incident, therefore wrestlers are forced to rest. Secondly, the big stars, such as the undertaker and john cena, are taking/going to take time off due to other reasons (undertaker = worn out, basically personal needs and john cena = movie). Finally, the new idea of giving away a million dollars each week doesn't seem to be looking promising at the moment.
We could argue all day and night whether the brand split should end (as I was really up for seeing the end of it), but after watching an old video on youtube, showing an interview with the American badass undertaker (about 2002-03, when the first brand split occured), I have come to understand that the split was meant to be there for a reason. It was introduced so that wrestlers like the undertaker, kane etc, wouldn't have to constantly wrestle on one show then suddenly, the next night, on another show. Basically, undertaker said that the old method really wore him out and it was hard for storylines/feuds to continue onto the next show.
So the real problem is, because of the amount of wrestling the wwe roster has to perform, has increased a lot from the times when the rock and Foley wrestled. Also the lack of emerging talent has forced the likes of the undertaker, hhh, kane, shawn michaels etc, to perform at mostly all of the house and live shows.
Now, I'm not saying what most of the people believe on this forum. That, the old generation superstars are sinking the new ones. That is partly true but they are not the ones to blame. Truthfully, I can't seem to blame anyone, but, I will say what I stated before, on one of my previous messages. Basically, we all saw this coming, mainly during the period of 2004. We knew that because of the lack of emerging talent and the fact that superstars such as, the rock, goldberg, brock lesnar were leaving the wwe. As no-one was there to replace these superstars, the wwe was helpless to really do anything about it so they let everything pan out by itself, from then onwards.
Also the deaths of eddie guerrero and christ benoit just left permanent scars all over the wwe and really came to hurt them aswell as us, the fans.
Also, truthfully, I think every single person in this forum will agree with me on this one, they need to stop targeting kids as it just isn't working. In fact, what made me interested in watching wwf back in the old days, was the fact that it had exciting matches with a lot of blood. However, wcw did have the better storylines with the nWo/nWo Wolfpac and others. But nonetheless, I became interested really because of the feud between kane and the undertaker. I can still remember, when I was in the 4th grade, kids at my school were all talking about some wrestler called kane, how he was the younger brother of the undertaker and the background to him wearing the mask. This all happened when the wwe wasn't targeting kids.
All I have to finally say is, I just hope vince and the wwe can hold their nerves until this problem is overcome as I, amongst the devoted wwe fans, will always we supporting the business and maybe we will be lucky to see another period when the wwe is on the rise, once again.

[Sunsetrocket]

I believe there decline began in 2001 with that ridiculous and horribly mismanaged Invasion angle, which could have issued in another high grossing revenue era for the WWE for years to come. Those mistakes combined with several other issues set the company back for years. I'm not sure if they could ever achieve the success they once had between 1998 and early 2001, but I hope so for the sake of all fans and performers who care about the industry.

[JGamens632]

I think what's going on here is WWE circa 1996. The product was starting to get better but the ratings wern't showing it yet. The past few weeks, they've been switching things up a bit and I think the shows more enjoyable. For one, they're starting to build suspense longer - the whole HBK/Jericho thing has been going on since right after WrestleMania. 3 months in WWE time is a long time these days, and the heel turn of Jericho was a slow build, ie he didn't want to hit people with chairs, etc. I also thought ECW was well done with the whole Armando angle. The Edge/Taker thing has been consistant and long-term. It'll be interesting to see where they go with the retirement - I don't think anyone saw that coming.

Second, they're starting to build some new people. Kennedy comes to mind. He can't be "The Next Austin" like others say, because Austin's already been done. But he's following Austin's trend. He was a heel, the people turned him babyface, and now he's starting to get that slow build to see if he gets some momentum. MVP's another guy that comes to mind. Just like Austin & Rock took the ball when Shawn & Bret were gone, I'm sure there'll be the next generation ready to run with the opportunity when it presents itself.

When WWE was successful, there was build and they groomed people for something. They built Warrior to Hogan, Shawn to Bret, Austin to Shawn etc. The fans could see where it was going and when the payoff came, it worked. What I'm saying is people remember the "epic" feuds like Hogan/Andre, Austin/McMahon, and others because they were featured. For a few years, nothing seemed featured. They'd start something the first Monday of the month, finish it on a PPV, and hit the reset button the next night on Raw. I doubt people remember the epic Great Khali vs John Cena feud, you know what I'm saying? But it seems like they're getting away from hotshotting everything, or at least not as much, and they seem to have some long term plans.

I think it'll all work itself out, there just needs to be enough adjustment time for there to be a difference.

[Sunsetrocket]

I'm not sure that there's much that can help the WWE. Pretty much the majority of their roster have been overused and misused to such a degree that it's going to take a lot to gain more viewers and keep several current viewers interested. Their current product reminds me more of WCW circa late 1999 than any previous years in their own company. The same guys with the same angles but with interchanging roles that have been in the main event picture for years, and the same can be said for the guys that are stuck in the mid-card. This really isn't anything new in the WWE over the last several years. This draft will not help much IMO because it's just the same guys in the same positions just switching shows. Another similarity with WCW '99 is the Quick fixes, which have been a fixture in the company for nearly a decade now, and none of which have worked and this draft is one of those quick fixes to me. In terms of celebrity quick fixes, remember WCW bringing in KISS, Master P, Megadeth, etc. to Nitro? If the E is going to improve over the next several months and years, it's going to have to look at its business and creative models and make changes to both.

Their marketing is exquisite, but I just don't care for 3 brands and the majority of casual fans are just confused by the entire brand extension. One roster worked for the company for several decades, and by splitting the roster up to create phony sense of "competition" and variety didn't work initially and hasn't worked subsequently. Each show (RAW, SMACKDOWN, and ECW) is pretty much the same, in which the viewer can't find a difference between either. You have 3 world champions, 2 mid-card champions, and 2 tag team champions. So, who's the number one guy in the company and what value if any do these belts have? These are the questions that many fans ask themselves when watching the E these days. Give me one top card champion, one high mid-card champion, one tag team champion, and let the other pieces follow. To me, that's sensible and it defines roles in the company. Very simple for the causal fan to understand and could follow these champions through every show during the week.

Even though I would like for the split to end, the bottomline is that the company has invested a lot of money into this brand project, and unfortunately, I don't see it happening anytime soon. John Cena, Triple H, Randy Orton, Edge, Batista, Michaels, even The Undertaker, etc. have been stale for quite some time now at least to me and it's time for a shake up in the E and I just don't see drafts as an avenue for long term change in a successful manner, but they can stir up some interest in the short term, but not much.

[slimmshady]

To tell you the truth, we are partly to blame for the recent failure of the business. The reason why I say that is, personally, I would prefer to see a match with two established wrestlers and know that they would put on a decent show (such as the undertaker vs kane). But when it comes to the newer talent I'm not that interested unless it is a special match, like the money in the bank match. What they should do is mix the matches up a bit. Blend the youth with the experienced to build for the future. That is what wwe didn't do after 2003 (except the push of john cena) and now they are trying to rebuild the platform again.

[Dragonslayer]

As can be read in my own post earlier, I agree with many things Sunsetrocket pointed out, especially the bit about having multiple "World" Champions, multiple mid-card champions, and so on... And even if I repeat myself, I'd just reduce the number of the belts, even if the roster split is kept intact, just so as to add this part of "real" competition to the brands that the commentators and everyone have been claiming forever and a day... If there was only ONE championship, a battle between the brands would be more legimitately believable.

But I also understand the point mentioned with Taker in 2003 or so... Of course it is hard for wrestlers to be on BOTH (or even on three) brands at the same time, considering the current travel schedule with house shows pretty much looks like that there are shows of both brands (with ECW attached) on the same day - of course that is a million $ business for WWE, being able to work TWO shows on one day that generate huge revenue (I just think about the sold out houseshows here in Austria this and last year), and so they will quite naturally want to keep that up. But I still think that the roster split is essentially just a money making move... It has been mentioned that WWE nowadays has a much larger roster than they used to, which is true; but the question is, would they really NEED that larger roster?! Wouldn't it be better if they cut down on some mid- and lowcard talent that won't be going anywhere (as I mentioned in my earlier post, like Deuce & Domino for example), and thus reduce the roster to the "really good" guys? I mean, they have their development territories anyway, so there's still those as an option for newcomers to learn the tricks of their trade, instead of wasting the valuable TV time on Raw, SD and ECW with less-than-stellar performances... But anyway, it's hard right now for WWE to do anything right. They are almost too big to act decently anymore, much like a big man wrestler is limited in his in-ring abilities... So until they figure out how to creature decent long-term storylines etc., there won't be much improvement. But I agree; I suppose in the last couple of months, they've been kicking it up a notch and trying to improve on their storytelling again... Let's see where it takes them.

[DeadmanInc.]

I don't think they can repeat that kind of success, but they can definitely improve their ratings.

The brand split was probably the dumbest idea ever. What made the Attitude Era so interesting (besides the crazy antics) was that everyone had a great storyline going on from the Tag Team Division, Mid-Card to Main Event. Every title was credible. Nowadays, the creative team is being exhausted having to come up with different story lines for three different shows. This causes a lot of lackluster storylines and feuds.

In addition, things were less restricted back in the Attitude era. Stars were given a basic outline of their promos and they used their charisma and mic skills to fill in the rest, not memorize their lines. WWE needs to stop trying to make their product more kid friendly. The Attitude era was crazy, anything could happen. Nowadays they're too busy trying to appeal to little kids that they're afraid to do anything daring.

[Golden Standard]

Yeah i don't think they an get to that period but they will get back to being good one day and almost up to that level were they were. They just need to improve on things thats all. But only time will tell and if Vince really wants to improve cause he just seems to care about the money and nothing esle. So if its anybody hurting wwe its Vince.

[lunghater]

It's sad to say, it really is, but it's not going to happen. The business is so over-exposed, people know everything. No one gets emotionally involved in stories or characters anymore, and that's the # 1 thing that wrestling relies on to be successful. Back in '98, when Stone Cold's music hit, you actually got EXCITED. I can't even remember the last time I've actually gotten excited once while watching WWE programming. I remember the days where it actually mattered what was happening in the title picture.

Those were the days.

[Sunsetrocket]

Yeah, it's really sad. I remember when the weekend came and knowing that I only have 2 or 1 more day left until RAW and Nitro were on the air. The days of channel surfing and getting emotionally involved with the characters and the industry in general has virtually abolished into obscurity to the point where I'm feeling deflated every time I watch WWE Programming because it's just the same repetitive and lame stuff without much realism and creativity in their product. The saddest part is that there seems to be no signs of change for the better.

[King Paul The Awesome]

The WWE in it's current state will NEVER reach the heights the then WWF reached in the attitude era.

I think that there are things that the WWE could do to help get them there though.

The first thing that needs doing is to end the roster split and unify the respective titles so that they mean something again.

They should also re-model the WWE title so that it is reminiscent of the title in the attitude era, the bigger version that The Rock won after Survivor Series 98, not the smaller one that Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho and Stone Cold the bad guy held.

The WWE also needs a star of the callibure of The Rock or Stone Cold, and they have 2 guys with that potential, John Cena and Randy Orton.

To make John Cena a big star, they need to make his character more like the John Cena that rapped on Smackdown. Austin became so popular because he didnt respect anyone, The Rock in 1999 was so popular because he so cocky, arrogant and sauntered to the ring like he owned the place.

Cena got crazy pops on Smackdown, and if his character was like that again, having him feud with Orton, the best heel for years could boost ratings.

Also the veterans such as HBK, Undertaker, JBL and perhaps even Batista need to move over. Orton and Cena, along with Edge, Mr Kennedy, Jeff Hardy, Chris Jericho and CM Punk are the future. Triple H can also be included for now.

Then just behind those, strong mid carders such as Matt Hardy, MVP, Carlito, Santino and Rey Mysterio could provide one hell of a I.C. Title division.

I also hope something comes of this stable that ted dibiase jr is forming. DX vs. The Nation was one of the best feuds ever and prvoided the start of the awesome Triple H vs. Rock feud that lasted for years.

Get rid of McMahon mania, people say that there isn't enough time for all brands to come together, not if Vince is phoning people to give money away.

The tag team division is on the verge of being awesome again. Hopefully Rhodes and Dibiase will form a team, then you have London and Kendrick, The Miz and Morrison, Londrick, Cryme Time and Carlito Morrella.

Perhaps even throw in a TV title division for the likes of Rhodes, Dibiase, DH Smith and even some lower IC title contenders.

The potential is there, Vince just needs to pull his finger out.

[Sunsetrocket]

The only way Cena is going to draw appeal to me is if he finally turns heel, which is long overdue. I understand that the E is drawn to his high merchandise sales, but there are times when you just have to take chances and make decisions you might have second thoughts over in order to get where you want to be. Take Hogan in '96 for example. Several fans in several arenas were actually booing the guy earlier that year before he left the company for a short period of time prior to the '96 NBA Playoffs. Reluctantly, he agreed to turn heel and thus with Hall and Nash formed the NWO and his character was reborn and WCW was rejuvenated. WWE needs something like that with Cena, and to tell yeah the truth, it should have happened 2 years ago when most fans were practically begging for it by booing the guy in most arenas across the country. That alone was a major signal for the E to refine his character and they bombed completely. I enjoyed his raps on Smackdown, but his character has been so saturated on television that it's time for something completely different and unique. A heel turn fills that void. Shawn Michaels should also turn heel as well. His character has also been very stale and unrefined too. Fans have seen the same Shawn Michaels character ever since he returned back to action in August 2002.

[Razz]

1999-2003 were good times. But wrestling was still enjoyable and I was really into it for me about up to 2005. Strangely the same thing happened to a lot of friends and other huge wrestling fans I knew. I used to tape every show and such for wrestling about the last 15 years. But recently I only watch wrestling when I can otherwise I try to find it on youtube or the internet to watch it. Somethings happened in 2005 that made me less of a wrestling maniac then I used to be. I can't say exactly what but some things that factor in to it might be:

- John Cena turned mega face, everyday marine guy. I dunno this character seemed to be extremely dull not in the same class of the John Cena rapping gimmick that had me hooked.

- Eddie Guerrero passed away. It was shocking as Eddie had been in a little lull with bad storylines like the 'I am your papi' angle. But his feud with Batista was heating up and getting interesting.

- Alot of mainstays were leaving/retiring/very rare appearances etc.. like Austin/Rock/Hogan/Goldberg/Lesnar/RVD/Y2J(returned)/Sting(returned)/Bischoff..

- The lack of mainstream competition was starting to show. TNA was not that big earlier and it was hard for me to find a way to watch it.

- They refused to push guys that might have been getting over like Shelton Benjamin/Christian etc...

- For some reason I was a huge John Cena and Batista fan but I really don't get excited over them anymore. I was really a mark for Batista at the time when he was hinting a turn on Evolution and HHH. I think something about the long face runs Cena and Batista have had has made them stale.

- A very interesting character in Mohammad Hassan had to be removed because of controversy and he eventually quit.

Maybe other reasons I can't think of. I am starting to get a little more back into wrestling now it seems they are given new wrestlers chances and the in ring wrestling seems to get better. Also TNA is a bigger alternative.

[Golden Standard]

The WWE in it's current state will NEVER reach the heights the then WWF reached in the attitude era.

I think that there are things that the WWE could do to help get them there though.

The first thing that needs doing is to end the roster split and unify the respective titles so that they mean something again.

They should also re-model the WWE title so that it is reminiscent of the title in the attitude era, the bigger version that The Rock won after Survivor Series 98, not the smaller one that Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho and Stone Cold the bad guy held.

The WWE also needs a star of the callibure of The Rock or Stone Cold, and they have 2 guys with that potential, John Cena and Randy Orton.

To make John Cena a big star, they need to make his character more like the John Cena that rapped on Smackdown. Austin became so popular because he didnt respect anyone, The Rock in 1999 was so popular because he so cocky, arrogant and sauntered to the ring like he owned the place.

Cena got crazy pops on Smackdown, and if his character was like that again, having him feud with Orton, the best heel for years could boost ratings.

Also the veterans such as HBK, Undertaker, JBL and perhaps even Batista need to move over. Orton and Cena, along with Edge, Mr Kennedy, Jeff Hardy, Chris Jericho and CM Punk are the future. Triple H can also be included for now.

Then just behind those, strong mid carders such as Matt Hardy, MVP, Carlito, Santino and Rey Mysterio could provide one hell of a I.C. Title division.

I also hope something comes of this stable that ted dibiase jr is forming. DX vs. The Nation was one of the best feuds ever and prvoided the start of the awesome Triple H vs. Rock feud that lasted for years.

Get rid of McMahon mania, people say that there isn't enough time for all brands to come together, not if Vince is phoning people to give money away.

The tag team division is on the verge of being awesome again. Hopefully Rhodes and Dibiase will form a team, then you have London and Kendrick, The Miz and Morrison, Londrick, Cryme Time and Carlito Morrella.

Perhaps even throw in a TV title division for the likes of Rhodes, Dibiase, DH Smith and even some lower IC title contenders.

The potential is there, Vince just needs to pull his finger out.

I agree with everything you say but maybe its us fans too you know. I mean we always complaining about pro wrestling and how garbage it is and how it will never be like what it was in the attitude era but really we should all move the hell on and try to enjoy it the best way we can if not simple answer just do not watch it at all. I mean we are all fans here but come on we starting to be like how nerds are when they are really hype into comic books and when superhero movies are not made like the way they should they get all hype and mand for no damn reason, and think and want the superhero movies to be like how it was in the comic books.

Well attitude era is over!!!!! Its been over for 7 years now!!!! Its a new era yeah its not that good but still wwe is okay. Yeah they do some dumb shit but its okay and so is tna. And if you ask me pro wrestling is still big since wwe getting more money then ever before and alot of people still watching it.

Now will wwe ever get back to the so called good years yes they will. They will proably be better then what they were in the atittude era you never know and tna will proably not be big but they could be good enough. Just chill out and enjoy it. You know fans complain about wwe and how pro wrestling garbage and they still watching it if you don't like it don't watch if you watching it you must like it.

[TheGreatSPAMbino]

Never ever again will wwe take over the main stream audience like in the attitude era. That was the peak of wrestling for sure. This is not to say however that wrestling will never get any better than what it is now it certainly will improve just it will not exceell to the same heights. This is because of the stigma wrestling has, because of the fear of competition and because of the internet.

[DeadmanInc.]

These past two RAW's have been really impressive and almost reminiscent of the Attitude era. It looks like WWE is getting closer to another wrestling boom period. I don't think it'll be as successful as the Attitude era but it's certainly better than their ratings slump as of late.

Ironically, Smackdown seems like it's still the "B" show despite getting the better end of the draft. The main event scene is now only Triple H and Edge, while in just two weeks WWE has changed RAW's main event scene dramatically.

If they axed the brand extension and made Vickie Guerrero the GM of both shows, I think they could have something similar to Austin vs Vince back in the Attitude era. No one gets more heat than Vickie right now. All she has to do is screech "EXCUSE ME" and the entire crowd boos the hell out of her. All they need is a new "Austin" to be the thorn in the boss' side.

[Golden Standard]

Hear we go again. Like i said before their will never be an attitude era again. See thats the problems you fans want wwe to do stuff like they did in the attitude era. By having Vickie be like Vince and have a another Austin thats not gonna happen ever again. And yes WWE could go out of buisness in the next two years or it might be good or not we cannot look into the future and we will never know. Quite frankly if wwe did go out of buisness it would not be the end of the world as i would not miss them since i was a wcw fan to being with.

[DeadmanInc.]

WWE is not going to go out of business anytime soon. Their ratings may have been dropping (though going up since the draft) but they're still making a lot of profit.

And I didn't suggest that WWE can repeat the Attitude era since I don't think they can ever match that success. I was pointing out that the elements that started the Attitude era are present today. Vickie as the evil boss (like Mr. McMahon) and Edge as the cowardly heel (like Shawn Michaels). No one in the WWE today can come close to the amount of heat that Vickie gets, not even Edge.

They're obviously not going to do something similar to the Attitude era since they're primary target audience these days are children. There's no way in hell that WWE will recreate the antics in the Attitude era for a younger audience.

[Sunsetrocket]

They're obviously not going to do something similar to the Attitude era since they're primary target audience these days are children. There's no way in hell that WWE will recreate the antics in the Attitude era for a younger audience.
Never say never

The same people said the same thing in 1996 and 1997 before the Attitude Era ever began. Most people never thought that any mainstream wrestling company would go so far to present that type of program to the audience. They did, and it worked. I'm not necessarily saying that the WWE will go all out again and repeat the type of programming they were presenting 10 years ago again, but they should do something to shake things up to the point were non-wrestling fans and casual fans are watching and talking about the product in a positive and intriguing fashion. For seven years up to now, they haven't done that.

[Golden Standard]

Well their was another company that pushed wwe to do that what was their name again? Oh yes WCW. See their is nobody that is kicking wwe's ass so wwe don't have to present a good product lke they did 10 years ago. And 96 and 97 was totally different. Vince cared more about the product then then he does now not to mention wwe was better then then now. Plus wwe didn't have the money at them times to better themselves they were struggling finacially.

Now they have all that and won't even better themselves. Its totally different from then then it is now because of that.

[Sunsetrocket]

Well, I just see that as only one component. If the only reason to make changes to your company and help boost your confidence to do so depends upon another company's success, that just shows the weaknesses in the management and creative staffs of the WWE. Evidently, that has seemed to be the case with the WWE for the past 7 years. Ultimately, the primary company that pushed the WWE to finally change its product around in 1997 was the WWE.

Also, I could argue about the company's "lack of money" too. The economic decline of Vince's company is one of the main reasons why he knew he had to make changes. If you don't have the funds to bring in or keep some talent, then the presence to take high risks and make changes should be even greater. Take for example ECW. Although a relatively regional promotion, ECW broke pretty much every taboo associated with American Wrestling during the 1990s, and it was that type of product and business/creative philosophy that ultimately got them noticed nationally and pushed them to levels that no independent wrestling promotion had ever gone then or since.

Yes, WCW's initial success was enough to make Vince think about the status of his product back then, but he ultimately saw the financial decline in his company and he knew he had no choice but to take a chance and make changes in order to build popularity and revenue within his company and he did. Now, the company has their monopoly and they are seeing that it's not quite fun being on an island by yourself with a small coconut tree beside you known as TNA.

[Golden Standard]

Don't worry TNA will be great in years to come. And thats Vince fault he the one who bought out WCW and ECW. He should have left them alone maybe they would still be here today and he would not be all alone on an island. Like i said Vince should still make wwe great even though they have no competition. They still have fans and the fans getting upset. Eventually they gonna stop watching and wwe will be back with finacially problems like they were in the 90s.