[OFFICIAL] The Macho Man Randy Savage Campaign Headquarters

[Capt. Charisma]

Wrestled for as long as the Undertaker, Undertaker may have got good matches out of Batista, but Savage got better matches out of The Ultimate Warrior. He had possibly the best wrestlemania match in history against Steamboat. The guy was the first total package,and could have been as big as Hogan (and came close). The guy was equaly effective as a heel, or a face. And had the charisma to go along with his in-ring ability. With Angle, Edge, Austin, and the Rock all been robbed in this tournement don'tlet the same thing happen to Savage.

[Big Beck-ah Roethlisberger]

Edge wasn't robbed, and Austin really wasn't either.

[Capt. Charisma]

Course they were, Vader is good, but he's not as good as Austin. IC25 can post all the videos of Vader he wants, I know the guy was good, but Austin is better, people are only voting for him because he is a more obsecure choice. Edge is a million times better than the Big show, anyway vote the Macho Man to prevent this tournement turning into a joke.

[Big Beck-ah Roethlisberger]

:lmao: I don't know, neither one of those matches favored Austin or Edge. Big show would have killed Edge in that match.

[Capt. Charisma]

Seriously though if HHH marks vote out Savage it will be a disaster.

[Big Beck-ah Roethlisberger]

I don't vote.

Its favoritism. Its not who will win, its favoritism.

No offense to Shocky.

[Slyfox696]

Seriously though if HHH marks vote out Savage it will be a disaster.They already voted out Hogan, so I'm not holding out much hope. I mean, somehow Triple H is speedier than Hogan...seriously...


That's like saying a snail is faster than a turtle.

[Capt. Charisma]

I voted for Hogan too, HHH would never go over Hogan, and never should. Watch the HHH marks say that Savage would be too tired after the iron man but HHH wouldn't be tired after a cage match with Hogan. The fact Savage had awsome stamina won't matter because HHH is the game... :icon_rolleyes:

[Lil Wes]

:lmao:

It is a joke. HHH over Hogan seriously? Nah.

RVD over Rock and Angle? LMFAO.

Vader over Austin? Bullshit.

I don't give a shit what kind of matches they are. All 4 of those guys run circles on these morons. And Rob Van Dam? Seriously. That's just ridiculous. Even John Cena owned RVD for god's sake.

[Lil Wes]

Beniot over Sting in a TLC? :lmao:

Wow, wrestling hardcore matches in a bingo hall really gets you votes I see.

[Slyfox696]

Beniot over Sting in a TLC? :lmao:

Wow, wrestling hardcore matches in a bingo hall really gets you votes I see.
Well, apparently, it takes years of experience to learn how to climb a ladder. Because, that's what so many of them based their criteria on.

[Luther_Hull FTW]

As long as HBK doesn't win I don't care who does.

I'm going to start posting in the tournament section, the Luther marks on this site deserve it.

[Slim Pickns]

Beniot over Sting in a TLC? :lmao:

Wow, wrestling hardcore matches in a bingo hall really gets you votes I see.

On the internet it does. If you judged this forum alone you would swear ECW put WWE and WCW out of business.

[Lil Wes]

Then they shouldn't be posting but rather getting their heads checked.

[Luther_Hull FTW]

Yeah this forum is just full of ECW and HBK marks.

Daft really.

[xfearbefore]

Beniot over Sting in a TLC? :lmao:

Wow, wrestling hardcore matches in a bingo hall really gets you votes I see.

Thats a bit unfair man, Benoit only wrestled in ECW for barely a year, and a good portion of those matches were all strictly technical matches. The only time he ever really got hardcore was with Sabu (granted he broke his freakin' neck).

I personally just think Benoit is a better wrestler then Sting, in every way except for one: charisma. Unfortunately, I don't take charisma or popularity into account when I vote in these things. Benoit was a better worker then 90% of the WWE's roster at the age of 40. Sting on the other hand has just become another guy who I feel needs to step out of the ring. Like Ric Flair. He's past his prime IMO, but I can still see how he could be used valuably without having to wrestle.

Still, I'd take Benoit circa 94/95 over Sting any day of the week in any stipulation. Unless it was something like a "Who Looks More Like the Dude from the Crow?" match.

[Slim Pickns]

Thats a bit unfair man, Benoit only wrestled in ECW for barely a year, and a good portion of those matches were all strictly technical matches. The only time he ever really got hardcore was with Sabu (granted he broke his freakin' neck).

Sabu's botching ability is contagious.

Sting on the other hand has just become another guy who I feel needs to step out of the ring. Like Ric Flair. He's past his prime IMO, but I can still see how he could be used valuably without having to wrestle.

Sting match quality may have dropped, but the fans still pop huge for him. Until they stop caring, you'll probably keep seeing Sting (or at least see TNA keep pursuing him).

[Capt. Charisma]

Benoit was a great wrestler, with Sting he was a great wrestler at certain times of his career. Late 80's early 90's sting was great, wasn't too impressed with him after though. Benoit I always thought was a great wrestler. the match was a 50/50 tossup for me, but in a ladder match I went with Benoit. Benoit is great but in the tourny as soon as him comes up against 1 of the 3 big guns lefti n the tournament (Savage, Taker, or HBK) he's gone.

[RKO Orton]

What the hell is up with the RVD-Angle Ultimate X Match? 70-30% no way. RVD too much of a spot monkey but he's being voted on. Dammit. The best wrestler (except for maybe Benoit) is going to be eliminated.

[Y 2 Jake]

Well, apparently, it takes years of experience to learn how to climb a ladder. Because, that's what so many of them based their criteria on.

Isn't the point of a ladder match to fall off it, do crazy shit etc? Sting wouldn't have needed to do that, I doubt he would have even entertained the idea.

[Esteban Ochocinco]

I am also getting behind Randy Savage in this thing. Just Say No to Shawn Michaels (who should have been gone) and Triple H.

[Y 2 Jake]

HBK is such a boring choice. Although I feel I have to vote how I think the outcome would actually be in real life.

[Esteban Ochocinco]

No doubt, I think HBK should have won up to this point. The Bigelow match is my big question mark. However, I will be voting for Benoit over HBK next round.

[Y 2 Jake]

Me too. The whole no personality thing isn't even an option now. 'Cus everyone knows killers are always charismatic. Hannibal Lecter, Patrick Bateman, Freddy Kruger and so on.

[Esteban Ochocinco]

Benoit's personality was intensity, pretty plain and simple. Sorry he cna't come out to fireworks and mirrors, maybe some cool smoke and lighting. God I miss simple wrestling before everything became about pyro, lighting, smoke and camera effects.

[Y 2 Jake]

The thing with Benoit was he was born a little too late. In the era he's was in he really should have been able to cut a decent promo, even Batista could do it better than him. Big Dave isn't the slightest bit intense, but he can simply talk to you about a match and get it over. Benoit drew people in with his wrestling ability alone. Imagine how good he could have been if he could do just a simple 5 minute speech.

[Esteban Ochocinco]

Yeah, if Benoit had just a little more mic skill, it would have been different. I also feel that If Curt Hennig was born ten years later, he possibly could have been the best fit possible for a feud with Austin during the attitude Era. He did well against a big guy like Hogan, but if he was in their in his prime against guys like Rock, Austin, Angle, Triple H, Taker, you would have some beauties of a matchup. Plus his promo skills were so damn good for the early 90's.

[Y 2 Jake]

Looking back Henning's carreer was incredibly short. I'm not sure how long he was in the AWA. But in WWE he was around for two years or so until he stopped in 1991. Then on and off again until he went to WCW. Pretty short career there and then he was a part timer. But yeah he had all the tools. I still think fans would have accepted him in the late 90's if he hadn't piled on so much weight.

[Esteban Ochocinco]

A name change maybe in order for the support Savage cause, maybe Stephanie Loves Slim Jim's.

[Y 2 Jake]

I think something as simple as Poffo works.

[Uncle Sam]

What the hell is up with the RVD-Angle Ultimate X Match? 70-30% no way. RVD too much of a spot monkey but he's being voted on. Dammit. The best wrestler (except for maybe Benoit) is going to be eliminated.

And, like I've explained, the situation doesn't even favour Van Dam.

But yeah, Savage has my vote.

[Echelon]

Kane > Savage

FACT

[Green Ranger]

Kane > Savage

FACT

ROFLMAO :lmao:

Randy Savage is 1,000,000,000,000 times better than Kane.

With Hart out, Hogan almost out, and Austin almost out, Savage is really the best choice left in the tournament (better than HBK). It would be absolutely dumb if HHH goes over Savage. HHH has absolutely nothing over him.

[Slim Pickns]

ROFLMAO :lmao:

Randy Savage is 1,000,000,000,000 times better than Kane.

With Hart out, Hogan almost out, and Austin almost out, Savage is really the best choice left in the tournament (better than HBK). It would be absolutely dumb if HHH goes over Savage. HHH has absolutely nothing over him.

Well, HHH has already gone over Hogan and Andre, so I'm guessing he'll have no problem running threw Savage.

[Capt. Charisma]

Even with Hart and Hogan in the tournament, Savage should have got to the finals. I was pulling for either Angle or Austin to face him, which is what the next match up should have been IMO. Savage in his prime was as big a draw as Austin or The Rock in there primes, and he edges Hogan out on in ring ability and even charisma for me anyway.

[Green Ranger]

Well, HHH has already gone over Hogan and Andre, so I'm guessing he'll have no problem running threw Savage.

I know. I expect HHH to win, even though he doesn't deserve it. There's just too many 16 year old HBK, HHH and Undertaker marks here, who probably don't know much about wrestling before 1998. Which is why one of those 3 will probably win.

[Capt. Charisma]

Savage owns HHH anyway, he had his dick in Stephanie first.

[Echelon]

ROFLMAO :lmao:

Randy Savage is 1,000,000,000,000 times better than Kane.

With Hart out, Hogan almost out, and Austin almost out, Savage is really the best choice left in the tournament (better than HBK). It would be absolutely dumb if HHH goes over Savage. HHH has absolutely nothing over him.

Really?

Savage = selfish egotistical prick, Kane = saint, one of the few veterans left that doesn't seek to better his own career at the expense of others

Kane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Savage

FACT

[Capt. Charisma]

Really?

Savage = selfish egotistical prick, Kane = saint, one of the few veterans left that doesn't seek to better his own career at the expense of others

Kane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Savage

FACT

So your argument of why Kane is better is because he's a doormat?

[Slim Pickns]

I know. I expect HHH to win, even though he doesn't deserve it. There's just too many 16 year old HBK, HHH and Undertaker marks here, who probably don't know much about wrestling before 1998. Which is why one of those 3 will probably win.

I know, no one in there right mind over the age of 20 would vote HHH over Andre. That was a robbery.

[Green Ranger]

Really?

Savage = selfish egotistical prick, Kane = saint, one of the few veterans left that doesn't seek to better his own career at the expense of others

Kane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Savage

FACT

Name one Kane match that is even 1/10th as good as Savage/Steamboat.

Can't think of one? Thought so.

Savage was one of the best ever at putting others over and making them look like superstars. Kane's a pile of crap who's been stale for 9 years.

[Echelon]

Name one Kane match that is even 1/10th as good as Savage/Steamboat.

Can't think of one? Thought so.

Savage was one of the best ever at putting others over and making them look like superstars. Kane's a pile of crap who's been stale for 9 years.

:lmao: Well that "stale piece of crap" as you put it is a future HOF, he's had just as many memorial angles as Savage, both good and bad. And Savage wasn't the god of the squared circle you make him out to be, he had his fair share of baggage. Yeah savage may have been a better wrestler than Kane, was more experienced and more traveled, but when you really look at it, theirs nothing that Savage ever did that kane didn't get a chance to do while in the WWF.

You could name a dozen memorial Savage matches, and I could name just as many for Kane

I fact there are plenty of things that kane has to his credit that Savage will never have,

Kane has won every major title their is to win in the WWE and is a former Triple Crown Champion, can't say the same for Savage.

Holds the record for most eliminations in a single Rumble as well as most consecutive appearances in the Rumble.

Kane has his own book, does Savage? Nope

Kane stared in his own move, Savage can hardly stumble through a simple promo, let alone act in a movie.

Its all about taste really, I never cared for Savage that much, Kane's my favorite wrestler, so theirs nothing that you can say that would make me change my opinion, which is

Kane > Savage

[Echelon]

Name one Kane match that is even 1/10th as good as Savage/Steamboat.


LOL, Undertaker vs Kane, WM 14

*waits for the "thats the only good match that Kane has had in his carer"* :rolleyes:

I have no idea that when I posted that Kane was a saint backstage and Savage was a douchebag, that you equated that with Kane being a better in ring performer than Savage. For the life of me I just don't get that leap.

[Esteban Ochocinco]

Benoit can take care of HBK, we jsut got to get Savage to take out HHH. It can happen.

[Slim Pickns]

Benoit can take care of HBK, we jsut got to get Savage to take out HHH. It can happen.

Lets hope. It seems some of these kids would vote for Triple H in a hanicaped match against Hogan and Andre.

[Lil Wes]

Beniot should never go over HBK. Savage over Trips easily though.

[Green Ranger]

but when you really look at it, theirs nothing that Savage ever did that kane didn't get a chance to do while in the WWF.

Savage was a 2 time WWF Champion and held the belt overall for 18 months.

Kane was WWF Champion for 1 day.

You could name a dozen memorial Savage matches, and I could name just as many for Kane

:lmao:

Do you really believe what you just said?

I fact there are plenty of things that kane has to his credit that Savage will never have,

Kane has won every major title their is to win in the WWE and is a former Triple Crown Champion, can't say the same for Savage.

Savage was a great IC Champion and gave that belt tons of credibility. Kane's IC runs were completely forgetful.

And I've already mentioned the difference in their WWF Title runs.

All the other title runs Kane's had (tag, hardcore etc) were either insignificant or unmemorable or both.

Holds the record for most eliminations in a single Rumble as well as most consecutive appearances in the Rumble.

Whoop-Di-Do.

Kane has his own book, does Savage? Nope

Very Impressive. Explain how that has anything to do with how good they are/were as wrestlers?

Kane stared in his own move, Savage can hardly stumble through a simple promo, let alone act in a movie.

Once again, very impressive. :rolleyes:

LOL, Undertaker vs Kane, WM 14

Far from a great match. Not even in the top 25 best WM matches ever.

*waits for the "thats the only good match that Kane has had in his carer"* :rolleyes:

That's the only good match Kane has had in his career. Just joking.

I have no idea that when I posted that Kane was a saint backstage and Savage was a douchebag, that you equated that with Kane being a better in ring performer than Savage. For the life of me I just don't get that leap.

You were saying that Kane doesn't seek to better his career at the expense of others, I just said that Savage made each and every one of his opponents look like gold inside the ring. It's nice that Kane's a "saint" backstage, it really is, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a crap wrestler.

[Esteban Ochocinco]

Beniot should never go over HBK. Savage over Trips easily though.

don't get me wrong, I like HBK too. It's no sweat off my back either way. I'd like for someone else to win for variety though.

[xfearbefore]

That's it. I'm starting the Big Show Campaign Headquarters.

Who's with me?!

[Slim Pickns]

That's it. I'm starting the Big Show Campaign Headquarters.

Who's with me?!

I am!
































Wait no I'm not.

[Esteban Ochocinco]

That's it. I'm starting the Big Show Campaign Headquarters.

Who's with me?!

2nd year in the row the big man will make it to the Elite 8, seriously, Big Show needs some love. But he's going to get his ass kicked by the Undertaker regardless.

[Echelon]

Savage was a 2 time WWF Champion and held the belt overall for 18 months.

Kane was WWF Champion for 1 day.

Wow, and yet they were both world champions. I could give a shit less if Savage was a 1000000000 time world champ, the fact is that both he and Kane have both held the world title.

Do you really believe what you just said?

Um, yeah, otherwise I wouldn't have said it. And considering that I can't even name any more than 2 good Savage matches without looking them up, it would seem that the Savage Classics that you deemed so "memorable" didn't seem to hold as steadfast as you'd thought.

Savage was a great IC Champion and gave that belt tons of credibility. Kane's IC runs were completely forgetful.

ROTFLMAO, I didn't even know Savage was a former IC champ, I had to look up his title to make sure he even won the IC title, Now really what do you think most casual fans will remember, Kane's IC title runs from less than half a decade ago ago or the IC title runs of some jackoff that wrestled 50,000 years ago?

And I've already mentioned the difference in their WWF Title runs.

And what was the difference? the fact that Savage had a longer title reign than Kane? That doesn't change the fact that both men were both WWE champions.

All the other title runs Kane's had (tag, hardcore etc) were either insignificant or unmemorable or both.

I could say the exact same for Savage, if we did a poll of Casual wrestling fans that have just started watching WWE in the last 5 - 10 years or so, lets see how many of them remember ANY of Randy Savages WWF's title reigns as opposed to how many remember Kane's 1 day title reign.

Very Impressive. Explain how that has anything to do with how good they are/were as wrestlers?

They don't, except the book and the Movie were both released under WWE, which means they brought money back to the promotion. And like I said, I don't see either a book or a movie dedicated to Randy Savage.

Far from a great match. Not even in the top 25 best WM matches ever.

:lmao: Yeah, just tell that to the live WM 14 crowd that was totally into the match.

That's the only good match Kane has had in his career. Just joking.

Oh, so you admit to Kane having other good matches in his career

You were saying that Kane doesn't seek to better his career at the expense of others, I just said that Savage made each and every one of his opponents look like gold inside the ring. It's nice that Kane's a "saint" backstage, it really is, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a crap wrestler.

You still haven't said why Kane is crap, is Kane crap compared to Savage? Maybe, but crap in general? Far from it.

Oh well at least I get a kick out watching Savage from Botchamania, there's at least 1 segment in each segment dedicated to him.

[xfearbefore]

Seems like all us vets of the first tournament agree that the campaign for this year is pretty much "Anyone But HBK 08".

[Esteban Ochocinco]

It's not that I mind HBK, he truly is one of the best ever, but a little variety is good. If he wins, he wins, no biggy. I did think he should have been gone to Bigelow though.

Realistically, Benoit can beat HBK.
Undertaker can beat HBK
Savage can beat HBK, but that's about it.

By the time he would face Show or Vader, it would be their third match, and people are going to vote for HBK over the 2 SHW's based on conditioning alone.

On a side note, a Benoit or Savage win is a big fuck you to Vince McMahon too.

Savage vs. Triple H next round, the winner gets to have Stephanie Snap into their Slim Jim, Oh Yeah!

[Slim Pickns]

Seems like all us vets of the first tournament agree that the campaign for this year is pretty much "Anyone But HBK 08".

Thats what I want. We could have got rid of him too, it was so close. I'm still bitter over that.

[xfearbefore]

Wow, and yet they were both world champions. I could give a shit less if Savage was a 1000000000 time world champ, the fact is that both he and Kane have both held the world title.

C'mon Echelon, are you saying that guys like Hogan, Austin, Bret Hart & HBK are on the same level as Vince McMahon, David Arquette, and Vince Russo? All of them have won World Titles.

Um, yeah, otherwise I wouldn't have said it. And considering that I can't even name any more than 2 good Savage matches without looking them up, it would seem that the Savage Classics that you deemed so "memorable" didn't seem to hold as steadfast as you'd thought.

This is what made me want to reply to your post.

I can name more Savage classics then I could Kane matches. Pretty much just get your hands on any wrestling show held at Madison Square Garden in the 1980s that involved Randy Savage, and you'll see gold. The guy had classic battles every single week with guys like Tito Santana & Greg "The Hammer" Valentine, not to mention Ricky Steamboat.

Here's a quick list of classic Savage matches;

Savage vs. Steamboat - WM 3
Savage vs. Tito Santana - MSG 3/16/86
Savage vs. Greg "The Hammer" Valentine - MSG 11/15/85 (I believe this is the correct date)
Savage vs. Hogan WM 5
Savage vs. Ultimate Warrior WM 7
Savage vs. Flair WM 8
Any Savage vs. DDP match from 1997

I could continue.

ROTFLMAO, I didn't even know Savage was a former IC champ, I had to look up his title to make sure he even won the IC title, Now really what do you think most casual fans will remember, Kane's IC title runs from less than half a decade ago ago or the IC title runs of some jackoff that wrestled 50,000 years ago?

I'd say Randy Savage. Because Randy Savage is 100 times the entertainer Kane is, and has about 200x as many fans. If you didn't know Savage was a former IC champ, you aren't very knowledgable about wrestling.

Kane had some of the most unmemorable IC title reigns of all time. Savage had one of the greatest of all time. No contest who is better remembered; Randy Savage. Unless of course you're 8 years old.

And what was the difference? the fact that Savage had a longer title reign than Kane? That doesn't change the fact that both men were both WWE champions.

So Vince McMahon, Vince Russo, and David Arquette are side-by-side with Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Stone Cold, HBK, Bret Hart, etc then right?

I could say the exact same for Savage, if we did a poll of Casual wrestling fans that have just started watching WWE in the last 5 - 10 years or so, lets see how many of them remember ANY of Randy Savages WWF's title reigns as opposed to how many remember Kane's 1 day title reign.

I'd say most of them would. Randy Savage is alot more popular then you think. Everyone knows the Macho Man, and I guarantee you that poll would STILL go to Savage. Because he's 10x as popular as Kane ever will be, and he hasn't even wrestled in years.

Oh well at least I get a kick out watching Savage from Botchamania, there's at least 1 segment in each segment dedicated to him.[/QUOTE]

Every wrestler botches. Name a wrestler, he's botched a move. That includes Kane.

C'mon Ech. Savage > Kane any day of the week, thats common knowledge.

[Lil Wes]

Thats what I want. We could have got rid of him too, it was so close. I'm still bitter over that.

Your a Hart fan. Your always bitter.

[Slim Pickns]

Your a Hart fan. Your always bitter.

Give us another ten years or so.

Come on Wes, a vote HBK sig. Like you need help from people other than your fifteen year olds.

[Echelon]

Meh, I choose what I want to know about wrestling, and I choose what I want to research about wrestling. Just because I didn't want to know about a certain wrestler from a time period that happened before I started to watch wrestling regularly, sure as hell doesn't make me ignorant to wrestling knowledge. I recogbized several times that Savage was the better wrestler and performer than Kane. And yeah, IMO, Kane winning the world title puts him in the same upper echelon as Savage when he won the title, the fact that Savage won the title more times means very little when you consider the fact that both he and Kane are former WWE champions. Its same with Hogan and Arquette, both are former WCW Champions, doesn't matter if Hogan won the title a gazillion times more with a gazillion times more meaning behind them, it still doesn't change the fact that both he and David Arquette are both classified as WCW champions. Why do you think I got so worked up when Candice won the title.

[IC25]

Seeing as this is the Spam Zone, I am free to say just this one thing and then leave before I am beaten senseless:

Vader campaign HQ > Savage Campaign HQ

[Y 2 Jake]

Echelon you can't honestly think Kane is better than Savage? You can like him more, but saying he's better or on par with him is madness. Macho Madness.

[Echelon]

I never said Kane was on par with Savage as a wrestler, I said he was on par with Savage as a champion, considering their both former WWE and IC champions

[Y 2 Jake]

But he's not though. Savage had a year long title reign. It wasn't great but it was better than Kanes. Fair enoughhis was a day. But Savage's IC reign shits all over Kane's to.

[Echelon]

That still doesn't change the fact that their both former champions and both considered apart of that upper echelon that you reach when you earn that title. It doesn't matter how much better Savage was than Kane, the fact still remains that they accomplished the same thing.

[Capt. Charisma]

Echelon is smoking crack if he thinks Kane is as good as Randy Savage, Kane is just a peadophile in a mask, Savage doesn't even need a mask because he's so cool.

[Capt. Charisma]

Beniot should never go over HBK. Savage over Trips easily though.

Agreed, Benoit was good but HBK was better, Benoit might of been better technically but HBK is an overally better wrestler, and in the big matches i.e. Wrestlemania, and title matches, always delievers. Benoit wasn't exactly a perfect wrestler, and I'm not voting for Benoit just because HBK won last year. However... Savage > HBK.

[Echelon]

Echelon is smoking crack if he thinks Kane is as good as Randy Savage, Kane is just a peadophile in a mask, Savage doesn't even need a mask because he's so cool.

obviously thats not what I said now was it, I never said Kane was as good of a wrestler as Randy Savage

[Capt. Charisma]

Kane > Savage

FACT

Thats what you said.

Why did you delete the bit in your post above about Christian been shit.

Christian > Kane

FACT

[Echelon]

Thats what you said.

Why did you delete the bit in your post above about Christian been shit.

Christian > Kane

FACT

But Kane > Savage could mean anything, it could have mean that Kane was younger than Savage, bigger and stronger than Savage, not a douchebag like Savage, I defined that that statement meant that Kane is on the same level as Savage in terms that not only have they both accomplished the same things in WWE/ WWF but kane has more to his resume than Savage does. And I'm not talking about who has more title runs or who has the most classic matches.

Because Christian is shit, I didn't think I had to remind you of that. the guy got booed out of WWE, goes to TNA, were he's now playing second fiddle to Angle. And by god the men's division in TNA is so crappy that the womens division actually got better ratings than they did, not once but twice

At least kane still gets a good reaction, despite everyone saying he's shit

[Capt. Charisma]

Because Christian is shit, I didn't think I had to remind you of that. the guy got booed out of WWE, goes to TNA, were he's now playing second fiddle to Angle. And by god the men's division in TNA is so crappy that the womens division actually got better ratings than they did, not once but twice

At least kane still gets a good reaction, despite everyone saying he's shit

People boo'ed him because he was a heel, it was his job to get people to boo him. If Christian got such a poor reaction why was he out poping Cena during his segments on Raw, and at least when he was feuding with Cena people actualy cheered for Cena and boo'ed him, something which a lot of the wrestlers Cena has faced have been unable to do. Oh and if Christian got so little reaction from the fans why were they chanting "We want Christian" at Taboo Tuesday after news he had left broke?!

Face it Christian is a better wrestler than Kane, the only argument you gave for him been better was that KAne got more reaction, something which is totaly untrue. Kane hasn't got a reaction for 6 years, Christian was boo'ed consistantly as a heel, and even got face like pops because his mic work was so good. Your information about Christian is just simply not true, he left WWE because he his contract was up, and was promised main event matches in TNA, which is what the guy deserves, since then he's won 2 world titles, and been in countless good matches. What about Kane? his last PPV match was a tag match with Big Daddy V,and Mark Henry, and he lost. Thats how much Kane matters to WWE.

[Echelon]

WWE has given Kane plenty of opportunities for Big time storylines and title runs, but Kane turns them all down, why? Because he's rather give back to the company and put someone else over to better their career instead of hogging the glory to himself. He feels he's done all that he wants to do in WWE because he HAS done pretty much everything their is to do in WWE.

[Capt. Charisma]

WWE has given Kane plenty of opportunities for Big time storylines and title runs, but Kane turns them all down, why? Because he's rather give back to the company and put someone else over to better their career instead of hogging the glory to himself. He feels he's done all that he wants to do in WWE because he HAS done pretty much everything their is to do in WWE.

What like shagging a dead person? Or tombstoning Linda Mcmahon?

[Echelon]

What like shagging a dead person? Or tombstoning Linda Mcmahon?

:disappointed: I'm not even going to acknowledge this with an answer

[xfearbefore]

WWE has given Kane plenty of opportunities for Big time storylines and title runs, but Kane turns them all down, why? Because he's rather give back to the company and put someone else over to better their career instead of hogging the glory to himself. He feels he's done all that he wants to do in WWE because he HAS done pretty much everything their is to do in WWE.

Wait, what?

Echelon, Kane was never given a big time storyline and title runs because there were better guys who it was much more intelligent to put the strap on (Austin, Rock). By the time they were ready for Kane to go back to that main event level from when he first arrived, he had turned to shit and was boring and about as fearsome as a teddy bear. So they've stuck him with years worth of such terrible storylines, that he will forever be buried at his current level.

But Kane has not accomplished more then Randy Savage has.

Randy Savage won more world titles then Kane did. He made a lot more money. The company was actually confident in handing Savage the belt. Savage was about three hundred times better of a performer both in the ring and on the mic then Kane could ever hope to be in a wet dream.

Kane is not nearly as accomplished as you think. I don't remember him winning King of the Ring and 2 World Titles.

[Echelon]

Wait, what?

Echelon, Kane was never given a big time storyline and title runs because there were better guys who it was much more intelligent to put the strap on (Austin, Rock). By the time they were ready for Kane to go back to that main event level from when he first arrived, he had turned to shit and was boring and about as fearsome as a teddy bear. So they've stuck him with years worth of such terrible storylines, that he will forever be buried at his current level.

But Kane has not accomplished more then Randy Savage has.

Randy Savage won more world titles then Kane did. He made a lot more money. The company was actually confident in handing Savage the belt. Savage was about three hundred times better of a performer both in the ring and on the mic then Kane could ever hope to be in a wet dream.

Kane is not nearly as accomplished as you think. I don't remember him winning King of the Ring and 2 World Titles.

And again, my whole argument wasn't based on title runs or classic matches

Savage = World Champ, Kane = World champ

Savage = IC Champ, Kane = IC champ

Kane is also a Hardcore champ and a Tag team Champ, something that Savage is not

Kane is a triple crown champion, savage is not

Kane has won every major title that WWE has to offer (therefore he has accomplished everything and done everything that he set out to do, now he is in the process of giving back to the company) save for the KOTR tournament (which they no longer have) and the Royal Rumble (which is also something that Savage never accomplished)

[Green Ranger]

And again, my whole argument wasn't based on title runs or classic matches

But title runs and classic matches are very important factors when deciding on whether one wrestler is better than another.

Savage = World Champ, Kane = World champ

Savage = IC Champ, Kane = IC champ

But Savage was a WAY better World and IC Champion than Kane. You don't become great by simply winning a title. You become great by what you do with the title and how much credibility you give it.

Kane is also a Hardcore champ and a Tag team Champ, something that Savage is not

That's irrelevant because those titles meant jack shit when Kane won them, and he didn't increase the credibility of those titles during the short times while he held them.

Kane is a triple crown champion, savage is not

Kane has won every major title that WWE has to offer

But he didn't do anything with those titles. They were all forgetful and insignificant reigns. All of the title reigns Savage had in the WWF had much more significance than all of Kane's.

[IC25]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Savage Campaign HQ, we have purchased air time here today to bring to your attention the following incontrovertable facts that I posted in the Big Van Vader Campaign HQ recently. Due to the length of the post and the fact that much of your time has been spent refuting Echelon's support of Kane, you may have missed it. I think it is worth a read, as you will be seeing these facts quite a bit.

Second Round, Vader gets either HHH or Randy Savage, who will be finishing up a greuling, tight match-up. I don't see a match-up featuring Savage and HHH in their primes lasting less than 25 minutes, no matter who picks up the win. As I will be voting Savage, let's say Savage wins.

People will bring up Randy's impressive run at Wrestlemania 4 in the WWF Title Tournament as reason why he holds on against Vader.

VADER FACT - THE BIG MAN WON HIS FIRST OF THREE IWGP WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS BY WINNING A ONE-NIGHT, 8-MAN, SINGLE ELIMINATION TOURNAMENT ON APRIL 24TH, 1989.

In that one night, Vader defeated Japanese Legend Masahiro Chono in 5:52, another legend in Tatsumi Fujinami in 14:37, and ended by defeating Shinya Hashimoto in 9:47. The first two matches he won with a flying body press, and the last match with an inside cradle. Man can wrestle, brawl, AND fly.

Savage, on the other hand, wn 4 matches at Wrestlemania 4: defeated Butch Reed in 5:07, Greg Valentine in 6:06, One Man Gang in 4:05, and Ted DiBiase in 9:27 following a Hulk Hogan chair shot to DiBiase.

So don't give me the "Savage wrestled four times in one night. Look at the two performances. Savage wrestled a total of 24:45 and needed Hulk Hogan to hit Ted DiBiase with a chair. Big Van Vader wrestled 30:16 and required no outside interference. VADER WRESTLED 5:31 LONGER THAN SAVAGE DID!

Vader over Savage in around 15 minutes.


There you have it, Ladies and Gentlemen, just a few of the MANY reasons why Vader should go over Savage in the Final Four - if Savage gets passed Triple H.

-IC25

[Capt. Charisma]

That still doesn't change the fact that their both former champions and both considered apart of that upper echelon that you reach when you earn that title. It doesn't matter how much better Savage was than Kane, the fact still remains that they accomplished the same thing.

Where are Kane's NWA, AWA, ICW, and WCW heavyweight titles though? Savage accomplished far more than Kane, Kane's only heavyweight title outside the WWE was the USWA. not to mention the length of Savage's title reigns in the WWF, all of Kane's title reigns have been short, and didn't exactly set the world of wrestling on fire.

[Echelon]

Where are Kane's NWA, AWA, ICW, and WCW heavyweight titles though? Savage accomplished far more than Kane, Kane's only heavyweight title outside the WWE was the USWA. not to mention the length of Savage's title reigns in the WWF, all of Kane's title reigns have been short, and didn't exactly set the world of wrestling on fire.

Have you even read my posts?

[Capt. Charisma]

Have you even read my posts?

You said Kane had acomplished as much as Savage, I've read your posts but I'm having trouble understanding what your point actualy is.

[Echelon]

Obviously either you didn't read them or you didn't understand them, when did I ever compare Kane to Savage outside of WWF? You are adding things to this debate that I never even tried to say