Was it a mistake to never push Tazz?

[Matisyahu]

I often wondered after Tazz came to WWE right before ECW plummeted why they never pushed him. I understand that Vince doesn't like to live off the credibility of one companies success with a wrestler much like the situation when Mick Foley came in and Vince said lets create something new..lets make our own history and instead of Cactus Jack we got Mankind. But why then did he just add a Z to Taz and make him look like a watered down version of the Human Suplex Machine? Worst of all he took the Tazzmission and made it a stand up version where nearly anyone could break free. The beauty of the original was that once you were locked in it was over! Isn't that the whole point of the finisher and most of all the submission factor in wrestling?!

I seriously believe that Tazz could have been and deserved a small taste of fame in the WWE and they could easily have banked off him big time. Sure he became a commentator and I for one associated Smackdown with the voice of Tazz and Cole for the longest time. But then again I go back and see all his old ECW stuff and see how amazingly talented and brutal he was in there with his numberous variations of the Tazzplex and just say man I cannot believe he never made it big.

Maybe it was his size given that he is short and all I mean everyone knows about Vinces legendary love of the big man who knows.

Either way it sucks that ol Tazz got the shaft. Thoughts?

[mork83]

I always assumed it was his health. I recently watched his debut on Youtube and his ovation was incredible (granted it was in NYC) and he gave Kurt Angle his first loss. They had him face HHH as the ECW champ and also, for some reason, remember a triple threat match on RAW with Tazz, Angle, and the Rock.

I figured they had big plans for him, but he had health issues and he then just wrestled in lame hardcore matches or squashes with Jerry Lawler or RTC.

I wished that instead of the Benoit, Jericho, Angle match at WM XVI, they would've thrown in Tazz.

[Y 2 Jake]

Originally I didn't think it was a mistake that he didn't recieve a proper push. I felt he was too small. But then they went and made Rey Mysterio champ. Don't get me wrong I like Mysterio. But he's 5'3'' and against smaller opponents he's pretty good. He's ok against bigger opponents as well. But Tazz despite being a midget he could wrestle with Super Heavyweights. If he'd been booked in WWE the same way he was in ECW he would have been huge imo.

[A.J.]

Looking back it i thought Tazz was over his head in the WWE. I saw him going maybe as high as IC champ but never the WWE Champ. As Jake said Tazz could wrestle the bigger oppnents as Rey Rey struggles badley look back at his championship matches vs JBL and Booker they were nothing special.

Tazz was miss used back then but looking at the time he joined Vince didnt vision anyone under 6'4 to be champion. Hell he always thought Y2J and Angle was too small to champs at first. If WWE used Taz as he was in ECW he would have been big prolly be one of the top ten guys back in the WWF in 2000 if WWE used his ECW stuff, but they didnt. Sad thing now is he is rotting as an ECW commentor

[RVDgurl]

I know that I'm very partial to the ECW, but I really think that Taz was completely misused in the WWE. Taz was the first big talent taken from ECW by the WWE. He didn't jump the ship before it went under, he headed for the WWE a few years before ECW closed its doors. Taz was brought in at the same time that Chris Jericho was a major player and the two are nearly identical in height, so size cannot be used as an excuse. Taz's character was never given a chance to develop in the WWE which is a complete shame.

[Rabbid Wolverine]

ye, he never got off the ground, i'm guessing alot of the talent in wwe wasn't too sure about get suplexed 10 dif ways, and the guys in wwe would be harder to throw for the most part i think.

he could have had some good fueds thought, even with his size, why not have submission matches with jericho,benoit, malenko.. or even fueded with a guy like guerrero

but he doesn't really look to be to upset about being an announcer.

there was an old article up about how kurt angle saw rvd slap tazz and he did nothing....... that suprised me big time (if its true)

[Kasey]

Taz was pissed away for the sole purpose of killing the mystique of ECW...plain and simple. He was brought in hot as it gets upon debuting. However, instead of allowing him to do what he did to garner attention in the first place (wrestle a smashmouth, semi-shoot style that garnered a rabid fanbase) they did another one of McMahon's "Let's fix what isn't broken" schemes and let his star burn out. He had one of the hottest debuts of his time and had instant cred as the dominant monster of ECW who ate guys like Rhino for breakfast without even breaking a sweat. In the end, though, McMahon worked his magic as usual and had Taz get a hold of the ECW title so that he could bring it to Smackdown and job to HHH. Just like Tajiri, Rhino, RVD, Super Crazy and numerous others, McMahon tried to change the root formula of what made these guys beyond over in ECW. The sad thing is that no one ever told the dumbass that he didn't need to meddle in their gimmicks. Just book them right and the rest would take care of itself.

The only thing more disgusting is having to watch Taz and Styles pretend that "ECW" on Sci-Fi isn't a complete asswipe of a show. Taz has become a really good actor on the headset. Much moreso than when he was an active wrestler.

[natecook59]

Tazz was pushed by WWE. After his debut he was pushed to mid-card status amongst Jericho, Benoit, Dudleyz, etc... He was in contention for the IC title on a number of occasions and wrestled in the hardcore division often where he was able to use a more "ECW" style. The big problem for Tazz was injuries. His neck continually got worse and other injuries accumulated. This made it necessary for him to transition into a non-wrestling roll.

[xfearbefore]

Finally something I can agree with! While Taz should most definately have started off as he did, I mean his debut again Angle was the perfect way to debut a new wrestler with a big name (especially in MSG) he also should've been pushed after a while. His biggest match really was when he was the ECW champ facing Triple H who was the WWF champ back in 2000. Great match.

Yeah they really lost a lot of money they could've made bringing over Taz's ECW fanbase there. But no, instead Vince would rather just kill off a promotion that put on better wrestling on a daily basis then the WWF could have achieved in its first ten or twenty years.

Taz's ECW days were just monstrous, the guy was so over it was scary. He was like the Stone Cold of ECW in the sense that he was the guy who just didn't give a fuck, and the crowd loved him for it.

Not to mention Taz was easily one of the best wrestlers of the last twenty years, the way he would just invent suplexes in his matches can only be matched by a Scott Steiner in his prime when he used to just make up suplexes in matches.

Taz I believe deserved atleast one reign on top, as much as RVD did atleast.

[EP Punk]

Tazz's push in WWE was there, but very short lived. As natecook said, his neck condition continuously grew worse, as well as, as taz himself said, years of working with no knee pads pretty much destroyed his wheels. So yeah, he deserved a bigger push, but I think he and WWE both knew that a long-term push would not have been beneficial to either party.

[Emmet]

Ive always rated Taz as a wrestler and always wondered why he didnt get a push at the time, but looking back on it now he did get a push but it didnt last long. I'd say a combination of his neck injuries and Vince looking to bury one of the best wrestlers ECW produced was why Taz wasnt fully utilized

[RealDeal07]

Vince would never push a guy who wasn't a WWF superstar at that time and prefers to bury them.Taz was reduced to fighting for the Hardcore title and that awful feud with J.R. and The King.If they continued pushing Taz like he was in ECW and his memorable debut against Kurt Angle at Madison Square Garden who knows we could have eventually had a great feud with him and Austin at a PPV

[BIGSEXYTHEGIANTKILLER]

Very few of the ECW alumni have made it in the big leagues. RVD, Foley and the Dudleys are the only ones I can think of.

[rampage01]

Tazz's push ended when he got injured. But the WWE is famous for this. They had cool guys like Tazz, Raven, Tommy Dreamer, Justin Credible, Rhyno and great wrestlers like Lance Storm, Ultimo Dragon even RVD and they try to make them their own. Why would you do that when the reason behind them signing these guys was because fans wanted to see them for what they were. If they let these guys just be what they are they would have alot more main eventers right now!

[michiganj24]

Actually I think the reason he never really got pushed was Raven. See when he debuted he was pushed max. Gave Angel his first loss, high profile matches etc. Then like any new wrestler Vince makes them go through a jobber period and that is not just guys from other promotion. Look at Mr Kennedy or Orton. Vinces theory is that will stop them from getting a big head but we see how well that works. Then just as he might have been over that scenario Raven came along and they felt they had to buddy them up as they were both ECW guys even they hated each other but that was the we dont know anything about ECW booking team. Then came the Alliance and that clusterbuck. Too many new guys competing for top slots and so guys on the cusp lie Taz got pushed way down. At that point his injries were catching up to him and by the end he retired to be an announcer. If he had had a few more years when the title scene was so loaded he might have done it.

[danmorrison05]

taz was over rated he had some good technical ability but he wouldn't of been able to carry the wwe or a major title he just doesn't look the part and he is under wwe and disneyland ride restricted height

[StrangerX9]

Taz was in ECW, what Samoa Joe was in TNA before Kurt Angle. He dominated but he had complications with his neck. So when he went to WWE he was a short guy in a land of giants. I'd like to see him come back and wrestle some more, but you'd have to have alota guys put him over and there's always the risk he'd get hurt again so its not a wise investment from a promoter stand point.


Long story short Taz was awsome, and if Samoa Joe went to WWE the same might happen to him, but i dont think hes ever had an serious injuries so who knows.

[Big Fella]

I think most of the reasons for Taz's lack of WWE success have been documented in this thread, but I disagree to some extent with some of the reasons listed here.

First of all, guys like Jericho, Benoit, Rey, and other smallish guys that had success wrestled a vastly different style than Taz. The small guys that have success are guys that can wrestle an higher flying up-tempo style and a mat attack. Taz was not able to speed up his tempo or take to the air. He was stuck in the middle really. He was not small/fast enough to wrestle bigger guys and take the underdog role as a "giant-killer." But he was not big enough to wrestle his heavyweight style successfully against WWE's heavyweights.

I still think Taz could have had more success in the ring if he was injury free, but never would have been a heavyweight champion caliber guy.

[nomonksinmyband]

I read recently that Tazz himself said that he is glad how his run was to an extent but he is never gonna get back in the ring to further it because he wants to keep healthy.

And as much as he was awesome somewhere else just like many people Vince is always gonna push his homegrown guys the biggest which is a way of showing his loyalty

[TheOneBigWill]

I think that Taz never got the right about of push he deserved, because as its been stated.. McMahon doesn't like to push off of another companies history. He wants each of his Superstars to recreate their own history, in his company.

Taz's debut against Kurt Angle could've been a lot better. In looking back on that match, it honestly wasn't the best. It was too short for what it was, & both men had tremendous talent, especially with suplexes.. for them to only use a limited amount.

After his debut, they instantly threw him away, having him get beat down by the Bossman & Buchannon. Then his debut Wrestlemania, they had him in some shit-ass Hardcore opening.. in which he should've likely came out the winner, but was actually beaten in the end. They tried to repackage him, & did that with his feud against Rikishi (which I think they tried copying the Bam Bam Bigelow aspect of everything) & then with Jerry Lawler, to hopefully stir up some old E.C.W. memories.

Taz & Raven were then placed together, & upon Raven's push away from Taz.. Taz fell away. His biggest match was during his reign as E.C.W. Champion, when he fought against Triple H. on Smackdown. The match should've been Main Event of Raw.

I honestly think Taz could've been a great World Champion, especially when the likes of Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & even The Great Khali have all worn the Championship. Taz brought something to the table that connected tremendous promos, outstanding wrestling ability, & good charisma with the fans.. but due to W.W.E. not pushing him since he lacked in size.. & because they didn't want to use what/who he was for E.C.W.. Taz faded away into being an announcer.

[Guy]

Taz....don't even get me started on this guy! The man was a revolutionary. He wasn't just some short fat midget, he was a black belt in Judo and could work a match with the likes of big men like Mike Awesome and Bam Bam Bigelow. His tazplexes amaze me...seriously they are incredible. He makes them land straightly on their neck and hasn't severely hurt anybody besdies Sabu. His mic skills were very instense and it gave you the feeling that when he went to the ring someone was about to get spiked on their head. He could also very well shoot on anyone at anytime using his Judo background.

Now on to the push section of my post: This is one of the reasons I'm not too fond of Vince. He basically had signed a technical masterpiece like Taz and use him piss-poor. I understand that he was from ECW, but if WWE tried their hardest in pushing him he would be HUGE. WWE has been known to water down wrestlers from other promotions though (Goldberg, DDP, The Dudleyz, Taz) so they weren't just singling Taz out.

Taz though...quite arguably one of the top 20 best wrestlers of the 90's.

*EDIT*

I also remember them tainting Taz's legacy by having him get squashed by Stone Cold. Come on was that really necessary? Stone Cold is good, but having him beat a wrestler ,who dominated a promotion where people were put through flaming tables on a regular basis, in a squash match is ridiculous and comes off as unrealistic. Hell if anything Taz should've shooted on him for being treated like that.

[SpiralHands]

I started watching WM17 the other day and saw Tazz on there teaming with APA, and I had same thought of why didnt Tazz ever get a push from the WWE Tazz was big time money at the time he entered the WWE, but I think Vince had a problem with the size, and the hardcore ECW style Tazz everyone had knew I dont think WWE would have suited his style, I dont think with all the other major talent they had in WWE that time Tazz really stood a chance to get big which is massive shame because I loved Tazz.

[blackhart07]

Its such a shame that the WWE buried one of the biggest bad ass's in the wrestling. Taz was a machine in ECW, he was a pure wrestler in a violent company. He had it all from the look to the promos he would cut. He made you believe that he was a legit tough guy. Always put on 5 star matches, he could work with a guy like Shane Douglas then work with Sabu. Hes only 5'8 and with a sport dominated by big beefed up body builders Taz was a breath of fresh air. No one can throw a suplex like Taz. I would take a Tazplex over any kind of suplex Angle, Steiner, or Lesnar throws. Im surprised he didnt break peoples neck because he would literally just dump them straight on there head. And for the people that say Taz wouldnt survive in a company like WWE because hes to hardcore. Taz was one of the best technical wrestlers out. I would put him right up there with Angle, Benoit and Hart. He could mat wrestle, shoot, and brawl. His feud with Sabu was one of the most legendary feuds in ECW. I still say he should be in the WWE HOF one day.

[Trance Metaphor]

I remember the first time I learned of Tazz was back in 2000. I was browsing the WWE profile section and came across that name and wondered, "who is this?" It all started there. The guy had a tough look to him that made me want to watch his matches. After I got myself the Royal Rumble 2000 tape and watched his debut match against Kurt Angle, I was impressed. Soon after that, I hunted down as many of his matches as I could get my hands on, while at the same time, watching all of his ECW matches. That was also when I became an ECW fan.

But, anyway, after everything Taz accomplished in ECW, I was rather confused as to why he wasn't going anywhere in the WWE. The beginning to mid 2000 was actually pretty decent for Taz. I mean, he defeated Kurt Angle, beat Big Bossman and even got a nightstick cracked over his skull but still got up, nearly dominated Benoit until an interference from Saturn caused a german suplex bridge pin loss, became Hardcore Champion twice at Wrestlemania but got screwed over at the last second, defeated Eddie Guerrero on Sunday Night Heat which will probably never be remembered, won the Hardcore title for the third time and during the same month he won the ECW World title for the second time, wrestled then-WWF Champion Triple H in a Champion vs. Champion match only to get screwed over in the end, lost to Lawler but got a win back and got up from THREE of his pile drivers. Okay, so maybe he didn't even start out that great. But, a lot of his early WWF matches were quality nevertheless.

With that being said, 2001 was the most disappointing ever. The WWE decided to job him consecutively. Just when I thought he was going to become European Champion, they screwed him over. What? And this was the same Taz that defeated Shane Douglas for the ECW TV title in three minutes using only the tazzmission! Shame. He lost a Pay Per View match to Tajiri, who he used to whip around like a toy in ECW and then ended up losing to Stond Cold Steve Austin in 1 minute (reminiscent to how Tazz lost a match in 2000 to Chris Jericho). If they weren't going to push him, they could've at least lengthened the matches to give him some credibility in offense. Nope. Or let's just say it usually looked like he was going to win, only to get screwed over some way. Even Billy Kidman beat him.

When 2002 came around and he finally won the World Tag Team Championship, I was half-thrilled. It was good seeing Tazz choking out wrestlers left and right and WINNING, but what I wanted to see was Tazz having a successful singles run as either the dominant IC Champion or tough-as-nails WWE Champion.

Here's the thing. Tazz had the look, the charisma, the mic skills, the ability to cut bad-ass promos, the ability to sell moves. If size was what downed him, it's ridiculous. Look at Crash. He wasn't all that tall either, yet he won more Championships. Look at Spike. He wasn't all that tall, yet he won more Championships in the WWE than Tazz. So, what was the problem? It was most likely his injuries and dying in-ring passion. He has stated that himself in the "The Butterflies are gone" article way back in 2002. Most recently, he had a new article that reiterated or further dove into his retirement issue and the whys.

In conclusion, it was a mistake to not push Tazz when he was still wrestling. They could've done more with him during the InVasion angle but they blew that out the window. And now, it's too late and it's over so all the Tazz fans can only do is relive his better years back in ECW. That's his legacy. I don't even want to believe that his WWE wrestling career existed except for some cool moments in 2000.

[Slyfox696]

What happens when TNA signs a former WWE guy, and puts them in the upper main-event scene? What is always said about that? "It makes TNA look bad by having WWE guys come in and dominate...like TNA guys are inferior to WWE guys". Well, there's your answer to why Tazz was treated as he was.

Tazz received, for the most part, the same style of booking that most crossovers receive from the WWE. Hot start with big debut, and then a push down the card, just so they can slowly be built back up. They did that to Jericho, remember? Debut promo with Rock, and then IC title scene? The reason that Tazz never got his push after his demotion was most likely because of his health issues.

People want to blame Vince McMahon for this and that, but really it makes sense. Couple in that with the fact that Tazz probably wasn't much of a draw outside of a 5 state radius, and it is easy to see why he was treated as he was.

[Testicular Claw]

I'm a huge fan of Taz but I think realistically at this point in his career there was no way he was going to be a huge star in the wwe. He had too many injuries. His knees and his neck were both shit by then. If he were healthy who knows, but I think it would have been a slow process. He wouldn't have shot up to main eventer quickly. First of all his height. But also, two of the things that made Taz over in ECW were his brutal suplexes and his "fuck the world" gimmick. The wwe would have to water down both of those because if people had to work three or four days a week with taz he would kill people and they couldn't have him totally work the same gimmick and shoot the same promos because they aired their show in prime time and have sponsors and such and just a different demographic in general.

Also in ECW Taz was their main guy, he was their ace, you will notice he was booked to look very strong and he didn't sell very much. WWE already had a lot of their own stars at the time so they can't just have him come in and bulldozer over them.

It sucks Taz didn't go farther in the WWE but there's a lot of justifiable reasons why that didn't happen. I do think he could have made an awesome manager but announcer works too. I wish they would make him more like the announcer he was when he was on heat instead of the goofy friendly he announcer his is know though.

[TheOneBigWill]

People want to blame Vince McMahon for this and that, but really it makes sense. Couple in that with the fact that Tazz probably wasn't much of a draw outside of a 5 state radius, and it is easy to see why he was treated as he was.

After reading what you've wrote, I agree with everything except the above quoted part. Now, I do agree that people wish to blame Vince when in actuality, its the performers that are suppose to basically "rise" themselves. They get the spotlight, and as such, what they do with it is how they'll continue to be pushed.

However, for you to say Taz wasn't big except within a 5 state radius.. well, you really need to define those 5 states, because New York and Pennsylvania have to at least be considered 2 of those states.. and both are huge draws for the W.W.E.. Therefore, Taz's status and should've been a lot more than drowning him against the likes of the Big Boss Man, and Jerry Lawler. (no offensive to Lawler)

And basically, to me, you saying "its easy to see why he was treated as he was." That, to me, seems like you're saying he wasn't anything great, or anything worth putting spotlight on.. yet look at how much they allow guys like Carlito, or Santino air time. Or even Cody Rhodes, or Hardcore Holly, all air time.

Yes, today's wrestling is a lot "weaker" than 2000's version.. but the fact is, Taz if used better than he was, could've been better than he turned out. In my opinion, creative dropped the ball on how to use him, because they felt using him the way he was used in E.C.W. was too "extreme" for the W.W.E. to follow in suit. They "watered" him down, and basically drown him out to moronic storylines and slowly faded him off.

[blackhart07]

People want to blame Vince McMahon for this and that, but really it makes sense. Couple in that with the fact that Tazz probably wasn't much of a draw outside of a 5 state radius, and it is easy to see why he was treated as he was.


How is it not somewhat Vince's fault. He decides who is being pushed. The people are booing Cena, and yelling you can wrestle at The Giant Kahli. Yet they still push both of these guys. Taz got the loudest pop of the night at the RR. Bigger pops than guys like Mick Foley and The Rock. He had the perfect gimmick for that era to. The badass look, heavy hitter from Brooklyn NY, FTW. What else did he need to have? He was an amazing wrestler. He should have atleast a strong run with the IC title, but they would rather give it Rikishi. He never got in the spotlight besides two night at the RR and on Smackdown vs HHH. Did u hear how loud they cheered for him that night? Yet they didnt want to push him to atleast a strong mid card.

[Slyfox696]

After reading what you've wrote, I agree with everything except the above quoted part. Now, I do agree that people wish to blame Vince when in actuality, its the performers that are suppose to basically "rise" themselves. They get the spotlight, and as such, what they do with it is how they'll continue to be pushed.

However, for you to say Taz wasn't big except within a 5 state radius.. well, you really need to define those 5 states, because New York and Pennsylvania have to at least be considered 2 of those states.. and both are huge draws for the W.W.E.. Therefore, Taz's status and should've been a lot more than drowning him against the likes of the Big Boss Man, and Jerry Lawler. (no offensive to Lawler)

And basically, to me, you saying "its easy to see why he was treated as he was." That, to me, seems like you're saying he wasn't anything great, or anything worth putting spotlight on.. yet look at how much they allow guys like Carlito, or Santino air time. Or even Cody Rhodes, or Hardcore Holly, all air time.

Yes, today's wrestling is a lot "weaker" than 2000's version.. but the fact is, Taz if used better than he was, could've been better than he turned out. In my opinion, creative dropped the ball on how to use him, because they felt using him the way he was used in E.C.W. was too "extreme" for the W.W.E. to follow in suit. They "watered" him down, and basically drown him out to moronic storylines and slowly faded him off.
You kind of got the point but you kind of missed it too. You have to put the two things together. Put in the fact that Taz was probably not much of a major draw PLUS the fact that he just came over from ECW, that's why it makes sense to have him work his way up. And, he never got to work his way up because of his injuries. I mean, did Taz even work 2 full years in the WWE?
How is it not somewhat Vince's fault. Well, I'm quite certain it wasn't Vince's decision for Tazz to get hurt...

He decides who is being pushed. The people are booing Cena, and yelling you can wrestle at The Giant Kahli. Yet they still push both of these guys. Taz got the loudest pop of the night at the RR. Bigger pops than guys like Mick Foley and The Rock. He had the perfect gimmick for that era to. The badass look, heavy hitter from Brooklyn NY, FTW. What else did he need to have? A stepladder, interview skills, and drawing ability?

He was an amazing wrestler.:lmao:

I've yet to see a Tazz match where I wasn't bored to tears.

He should have atleast a strong run with the IC title, but they would rather give it Rikishi. He never got in the spotlight besides two night at the RR and on Smackdown vs HHH. Did u hear how loud they cheered for him that night? Yet they didnt want to push him to atleast a strong mid card.
Wasn't the Royal Rumble in New York? What happens when Tazz goes to Portland Oregon? Who is going to give a damn about him there?

[TheOneBigWill]

A stepladder, interview skills, and drawing ability?

I don't think I've ever seen you mock someone for their physical disability. (Taz's size, for example) Anyways.. how was he not good in interviews? His E.C.W. interviews were definately on par, they were great. But that just goes back to W.W.E. not allowing them to happen in their company, because they were too "extreme."

I've yet to see a Tazz match where I wasn't bored to tears.

Rob Van Dam v. Taz - November To Remember 1999, Masato Tanaka v. Mike Awesome v. Taz - Anarchy Rulz 1999, - Shane Douglas v. Taz - Living Dangerously (I think) 1999.

Taz has had some incredible matches.. the only reason he sucked in W.W.E. had practically nothing to do with him, so much as the opposites he was constantly put up against. Boss Man, Crash Holly, Jerry Lawler?

Wasn't the Royal Rumble in New York? What happens when Tazz goes to Portland Oregon? Who is going to give a damn about him there?

The same thing could be said in regards to Portland Oregon? Who gives a damn about that place? New York is one of the biggest drawing places in all of Professional Wrestling.

[Slyfox696]

I don't think I've ever seen you mock someone for their physical disability. (Taz's size, for example) Anyways.. how was he not good in interviews? His E.C.W. interviews were definately on par, they were great. But that just goes back to W.W.E. not allowing them to happen in their company, because they were too "extreme."It was a joke regarding size.

And if Taz cannot cut WWE promos, then he's not good on the mic. It's simple.

Rob Van Dam v. Taz - November To Remember 1999, Masato Tanaka v. Mike Awesome v. Taz - Anarchy Rulz 1999, - Shane Douglas v. Taz - Living Dangerously (I think) 1999.I'll watch some time and let you know.

The same thing could be said in regards to Portland Oregon? Who gives a damn about that place? New York is one of the biggest drawing places in all of Professional Wrestling.Portland was an example. Just like Phoenix, Arizona, Houston , Miami, St. Louis, Charleston, San Diego, etc...basically outside of the Northeast, where would Taz draw well?

There's no doubt that New York is big for wrestling. But the WWE is a worldwide company, not a New York/Philadelphia company.

[blackhart07]

Quote:
He was an amazing wrestler.



I've yet to see a Tazz match where I wasn't bored to tears.


Go watch Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow at Heatwave 1998 and Living Dangerously 1998. Both Great matches.

Sabu vs Taz at Living Dangerously 1999 and Taz vs Shane Douglas at Guilty as Charged 1999.

And how do you know Taz wouldnt draw well in other places? He wasnt given the right push its not his fault. He couldnt show his true ability like RVD, Raven, The Sandman the list goes on and on. If wrestlers cant show there true abilities(not watered down shit) then there not gonnea be good. They cant excpect a wrestler to changer there whole style when they get to the WWE and then excpect them to still get over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WjhLG9ovfI

Now thats how you cut a promo, tell me one person in TNA or WWE that could cut a promo like that.

[Slyfox696]

Go watch Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow at Heatwave 1998 and Living Dangerously 1998. Both Great matches.

Sabu vs Taz at Living Dangerously 1999 and Taz vs Shane Douglas at Guilty as Charged 1999.

[quote]And how do you know Taz wouldnt draw well in other places? Because no one outside of Philly and New York and the surrounding areas had ever heard of him. I'm not saying that Tazz COULDN'T have been a draw eventually, but do you honestly think that anyone in Boise, Idaho would have given a rip about a short fat man they had never heard of?

He couldnt show his true ability like RVD, Raven, The Sandman the list goes on and on. If wrestlers cant show there true abilities(not watered down shit) then there not gonnea be good. They cant excpect a wrestler to changer there whole style when they get to the WWE and then excpect them to still get over.See, there's such a mistaken notion. To be good you have to be able to adapt your style to work various situations. That's why guys like RVD and Sandman were pure crap, because they could only work the same style, and that style was nothing more than a spotfest match with poor transitions. They couldn't work a different style and the style they worked made for bad wrestling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WjhLG9ovfI

Now thats how you cut a promo, tell me one person in TNA or WWE that could cut a promo like that.I'll watch when I get home.

[blackhart07]

Because no one outside of Philly and New York and the surrounding areas had ever heard of him. I'm not saying that Tazz COULDN'T have been a draw eventually, but do you honestly think that anyone in Boise, Idaho would have given a rip about a short fat man they had never heard of?

More than likely your right, but if the WWE wanted to they would have pushed him to become a star. The WWE made Khali a star. They made Batista a star the list goes on and on. And Taz shits on them in every aspect of wrestling from actuall wrestling, promos, to ring psychology. His gimick was perfect for the attitude era. Do you think anyone up here in the Northeast could give a shit about a local indy wrestler down south that is putting on some good matches?Maybe, maybe not were not exposed to him. Just like half the country wasnt exposed to Taz. ECW got there cable deal then a month later it leaked that taz was leaving. ECW wasnt gonnea build there future on the network around a guy thats leaving in 2 months so he wasnt used up to par like he was the past 2 years. Then he got in the WWE got him and crapped on his legacy by having him job to the king, and pointless other stuff. His career was doomed before getting there.

[Slyfox696]

More than likely your right, but if the WWE wanted to they would have pushed him to become a star. The WWE made Khali a star. They made Batista a star the list goes on and on. And Taz shits on them in every aspect of wrestling from actuall wrestling, promos, to ring psychology. His gimick was perfect for the attitude era. Do you think anyone up here in the Northeast could give a shit about a local indy wrestler down south that is putting on some good matches?Maybe, maybe not were not exposed to him. Just like half the country wasnt exposed to Taz. ECW got there cable deal then a month later it leaked that taz was leaving. ECW wasnt gonnea build there future on the network around a guy thats leaving in 2 months so he wasnt used up to par like he was the past 2 years. Then he got in the WWE got him and crapped on his legacy by having him job to the king, and pointless other stuff. His career was doomed before getting there.
Except that Taz had NO career in the WWE, because he had so many injuries.

You cannot lose sight of that very very important fact. If Taz was still wrestling, and is as good as everyone says (which, is doubtful), then he probably would be doing well for himself right now. But, Tazz was hurt, and that is no one's fault.

You can't expect a guy that most of the country doesn't care about to become a mega superstar in two years, especially if it will make your own company look bad in the process. That would be terrible business.

[blackhart07]

Except that Taz had NO career in the WWE, because he had so many injuries.

Your right there, his neck is gone and he will never return.

You cannot lose sight of that very very important fact. If Taz was still wrestling, and is as good as everyone says (which, is doubtful), then he probably would be doing well for himself right now. But, Tazz was hurt, and that is no one's fault.


You are the one doubting it, of all the people that have been in this thread you are doubting his wrestling ability. I wouldnt be in this thread fighting for him if i didnt feel he was a good wrestler.

You can't expect a guy that most of the country doesn't care about to become a mega superstar in two years, especially if it will make your own company look bad in the process. That would be terrible business.


Brock Lesnar won the title in how many months? I wouldnt want him to just come in and win the title that would be dumb and not right. But he deserved a run with the IC and European title. They should have done it right but after you he lost to the king it killed his career he went from a wrecking machine in ECW to losing to a 50 year old man it killed his credability. He had no good feuds, so what can he do. He should have been feuding with Y2J, Benoit, Angle, Guerrero, Malenko, and Saturn in 2000. It would have made for some great matches. Plus all there styles of wreslting are alike.

Another match i encourage you to take a look at it Taz vs Tajiri at Heatwave 1999 its on youtube. Its short, but good i enjoy it.

[Afro-Ameri-Spawn]

Taz was a legend who, unfortunately, came into the WWE at the wrong time. He was a midget in the midst of huge giants. While many of the big men in ECW had that sloppy, indy wrestling freak look, the WWE had well cut body builders who it would be hard to sell Taz as going over on. Especially with Kurt Angle waiting in the wings with a similar gimmick and lower millage. Add in the fact that Taz was wrestling on borrowed time, it left little time to properly build him up as the Suplex Machine that he was known to be.

Also, at that time, WWE wasn't too keen on the whole "Killer of Giants" thing that has become so popular in their booking these days when it comes to undersized wrestlers. I would love to see Taz come out of retirement for one last dream match, but it's highly unlikely that it will ever happen.

[FoleyIsGod]

I think Tazz was about 4 years too early to be pushed. If he was around when Lesnar, Benoit and Angle were tearing up the ring with "true" wrestling, ie a matbased, submission match, he would have drawn huge. I mean, Tazz vs Lesnar would have been interesting to say the least, as both guys were legit wrestlers.

Sadly, that is the way with wrestling.

[erc24]

^^^ Taz was too early to be pushed, exactly, and with his injuries, it didn't go to well. He was amazing to me in the ring. He's not fat despite what some say, V is fat, Vader jiggled, Taz was just a short, solid guy. He could've been a major draw given his size/weight factor at that size. His low base would've allowed him to easily suplex alot of the bigger guys. With the right build up and minus the injuries, he could've been great. This is only one of a few things that I think WWE Really dropped the ball with.

As to the dude who said Taz was boring, you have an Ultimate Warrior graphic......I liked Warrior then, be he wasn't near the worker Taz was.

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

I see a lot of people stating that they think that Taz's neck prevented him from getting a decent wrestling career in WWE and that's fair enuff, so why did the same thing happen to Raven when he moved to WWE? Came along and did nothing. RVD and the Dudleys are the ONLY ECW guys to amount to anything (obviously you have Austin and Foley but they aren't what i'd call ECW guys). Al Snow? Did nothing. Sandman? Did nothing. Raven? Nothing. Taz? Nothing. Stevie Richards? Nothing. Blue Meanie? Nothing.

Taz had a big list of guys in his area of expertise (submission/technical wrestling) that he could have worked with, e.g. Jericho, Regal, all 4 of the Radicalz, plus you still had the Hardcore division for him to have decent hardcore matches with both the Hollys and Snow. Instead he'd team up with APA every now and then or go for the Hardcore title, and had ONE fued with Jerry Lawler. He was in 1 Royal Rumble and got eliminated by Kane in like 6 seconds! After that he suddenly became a commentator.

Fact is, he can't wrestle anymore, so we'll never know.

[Pathogen]

I was really excited about Tazz arriving in the E, having heard about him in ECW. I thought he could be amazing, but my hope disappeared fairly quickly, when they failed to do much with him. It was a shame, but he wasn't at full health, so I guess that played a part? They didn't really do anything with Rhyno either, but the Dudleys got pushed to the moon, so I'm sure it wasn't as simple as being anti ECW. Dunno though.

[ATTITUDEERA4EVER]

Tazz had great potential. He had many fans from ECW...shame he didn't get the push he deserved.

Didn't Paul Heyman say once on raw during the WWE vs WCW/ECW storyline that Tazz was a wrestler, but vince mcmahon made him an announcer, "and he's not even a good one!"

[Trance Metaphor]

Taz had a big list of guys in his area of expertise (submission/technical wrestling) that he could have worked with, e.g. Jericho, Regal, all 4 of the Radicalz, plus you still had the Hardcore division for him to have decent hardcore matches with both the Hollys and Snow. Instead he'd team up with APA every now and then or go for the Hardcore title, and had ONE fued with Jerry Lawler. He was in 1 Royal Rumble and got eliminated by Kane in like 6 seconds! After that he suddenly became a commentator.

Fact is, he can't wrestle anymore, so we'll never know.

Actually, when Taz first came into the WWF, he was having good matches against guys in his area of expertise. He has victories over Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn and William Regal. It all happened in 2000. It was after returning from his arm injury that he was put into a feud with Jerry Lawler, which uniquely dated back to 1997. After that, his WWF wrestling career went down the gutter. Him teaming up with APA happened in 2001 and that was probably his second small push. His final push came in 2002 when he won the WWF Tag Team Championship with Spike Dudley. I guess you could say he had a better push than all the other ECW guys with the exception of Rob Van Dam and The Dudley Boyz.

Tazz had great potential. He had many fans from ECW...shame he didn't get the push he deserved.

Didn't Paul Heyman say once on raw during the WWE vs WCW/ECW storyline that Tazz was a wrestler, but vince mcmahon made him an announcer, "and he's not even a good one!"

That was probably the greatest Paul Heyman promo in the WWF. There was so much truth in it.

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Actually, when Taz first came into the WWF, he was having good matches against guys in his area of expertise. He has victories over Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn and William Regal. It all happened in 2000. It was after returning from his arm injury that he was put into a feud with Jerry Lawler, which uniquely dated back to 1997. After that, his WWF wrestling career went down the gutter. Him teaming up with APA happened in 2001 and that was probably his second small push. His final push came in 2002 when he won the WWF Tag Team Championship with Spike Dudley.

I know he had matches with those guys, but my point was that he never had a fued with any of them except Angle, which even then wasn't anything to shout about. What doesn't make sense is that Tazz was the first guy to beat Angle, yet Angle's career soared and Tazz, despite being the jewel in the ECW crown, was never pushed effectively. His only 2 feuds were w/ Lawler which didn't suck too much and against RTC which every mid carder had had an issue with so it's not like that was anything special for him. Also, i wouldn't consider that tag title reign isn't really worth mentioning.

[Trance Metaphor]

I know he had matches with those guys, but my point was that he never had a fued with any of them except Angle, which even then wasn't anything to shout about. What doesn't make sense is that Tazz was the first guy to beat Angle, yet Angle's career soared and Tazz, despite being the jewel in the ECW crown, was never pushed effectively. His only 2 feuds were w/ Lawler which didn't suck too much and against RTC which every mid carder had had an issue with so it's not like that was anything special for him. Also, i wouldn't consider that tag title reign isn't really worth mentioning.

Actually, his feud with Angle was something to shout about for ECW fans. Maybe not in the technical sense of them putting on matches to the best of their abilities, but when it came to back-and-forth skirmishes and the like to best each other, it was pretty good. They had series of matches with both taking a few wins each. It was on and off much like the Taz/Lawler feud. The fact that Angle and Taz have history also made their feud look cooler going into ONS 2005.

Why isn't the Tag Team reign anything worth mentioning? It was his final and best push since the early half of his 2000 career. He held it for two months and was able to defeat a lot of top mid-carders, including Christian/Lance Storm, Test & Booker T. It was also during his Tag reign that he was able to get a WWE title shot against Chris Jericho. What's not worth mentioning are his Hardcore title reigns. Those only lasted minutes. I don't think he even got to touch the physical belt.

Anyway, his WWF wrestling career in two years and three months amounted to this:

2000:

First man to defeat the undefeated Kurt Angle
ECW Champion (second reign)
WWF Hardcore Champion (3)
Feud with Jerry Lawler
Tag Team with Raven
Co-Host for Sunday Night Heat

2001:

WrestleMania victory with APA
Jobber
Temporary Color Commentator for Smackdown!
Tough Enough 1 Trainer
Alliance Member

2002:

WWF Tag Team Champion w/ Spike Dudley
Color Commentator for Smackdown!

Shame...

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Actually, his feud with Angle was something to shout about for ECW fans. Maybe not in the technical sense of them putting on matches to the best of their abilities, but when it came to back-and-forth skirmishes and the like to best each other, it was pretty good. They had series of matches with both taking a few wins each. It was on and off much like the Taz/Lawler feud. The fact that Angle and Taz have history also made their feud look cooler going into ONS 2005.

Why isn't the Tag Team reign anything worth mentioning? It was his final and best push since the early half of his 2000 career. He held it for two months and was able to defeat a lot of top mid-carders, including Christian/Lance Storm, Test & Booker T. It was also during his Tag reign that he was able to get a WWE title shot against Chris Jericho. What's not worth mentioning are his Hardcore title reigns. Those only lasted minutes. I don't think he even got to touch the physical belt.

Anyway, his WWF wrestling career in two years and three months amounted to this:

2000:

First man to defeat the undefeated Kurt Angle
ECW Champion (second reign)
WWF Hardcore Champion (3)
Feud with Jerry Lawler
Tag Team with Raven
Co-Host for Sunday Night Heat

2001:

WrestleMania victory with APA
Jobber
Temporary Color Commentator for Smackdown!
Tough Enough 1 Trainer
Alliance Member

2002:

WWF Tag Team Champion w/ Spike Dudley
Color Commentator for Smackdown!

1. I don't understand when you say ECW fans wud b happy about the Angle/Tazz fued. Why would ECW fans want Taz to leave ECW and wrestle in one of the bigger promotions? Die hard ECW fans wud not b happy about it at all. Also, a decent fued lasts at least 2 months. I only recall Angle coming out and saying the Tazzmission was an illegal choke and claiming he never really lost due to cheating and moved on. By No Way Out of that year, (a month later) Angle was beating Y2J for the IC belt and Tazz beat the Bossman by DQ in 0:47 seconds.
2. Loadsa ppl get title shots against the champ, but we all know they won't win so i dont agree that the tag title reign earned him a legit world title shot. It was just a filler b4 Jericho's REAL title defense.
3. His two highest profile matches were against Angle (his debut win) and HHH which he lost. In his WM match, he tagged in once and did barely anything and it was Bradshaw who actaully got the win.
4. His ECW title reign during his WWE career lasted a week and only happened to get the belt off of Mike Awesome.
5. Tag title reigns with random pairs are their purely something for those two guys to do. The only benefit of this reign for Tazz was that HE got the win in all of the major defenses.
6. At ONS 2006 that match was built up on nothing but talk and then lasted 30 seconds. If you believe their previous fued made this one look better, the way it played out totally ruined that. It was basically jus a launching platform for Styles and Tazz to become the ECW announcers.

[Trance Metaphor]

1. I don't understand when you say ECW fans wud b happy about the Angle/Tazz fued. Why would ECW fans want Taz to leave ECW and wrestle in one of the bigger promotions? Die hard ECW fans wud not b happy about it at all. Also, a decent fued lasts at least 2 months. I only recall Angle coming out and saying the Tazzmission was an illegal choke and claiming he never really lost due to cheating and moved on. By No Way Out of that year, (a month later) Angle was beating Y2J for the IC belt and Tazz beat the Bossman by DQ in 0:47 seconds.


I'm a die-hard ECW fan and even more of a Taz fan and I was pretty excited to see him making a tremendous debut in the WWF against Kurt Angle. I had no problem with it at all. Taz had nothing more to prove in ECW. He accomplished everything there and had a 9-month reign as ECW Champion. It was time for him to move on. It doesn't matter how long a feud lasts. In those two months, Taz had more matches with Kurt Angle than with any other superstar and if we include their house show matches, that's quite a lot. Not to mention, in 2001, a little rub between them was resurrected when Kurt Angle and Taz locked up again with Taz cutting a promo reminding him of 2000. There were further references in their future skirmishes such as the ONS 2005 lead-up. If you've missed their consecutive matches back in 2000, then I don't blame you. As for Kurt Angle getting a push that eventually propelled him to the WWF title late 2000 and Taz getting demoted? The WWF creative didn't know what to do with Taz. That's how I see it. Now, had they been smart and given Taz more opportunities for the IC title, it would've been fine in my eyes.


2. Loadsa ppl get title shots against the champ, but we all know they won't win so i dont agree that the tag title reign earned him a legit world title shot. It was just a filler b4 Jericho's REAL title defense.


It was legit, because without his Tag title, he would've still been jobbing with no chance whatsoever at getting anything more than an occasional European title shot. Him winning the Tag title made him look much more legit. Also, he successfully defended the Tag title twice on two PPVs. When was the last time Taz was able to get on PPV as Champion? ECW Anarchy Rulz '99.


4. His ECW title reign during his WWE career lasted a week and only happened to get the belt off of Mike Awesome.


Yet it made history since it was the only time a WWF contracted wrestler took on a WCW contracted wrestler for the ECW Championship. More power to us Taz fans.


5. Tag title reigns with random pairs are their purely something for those two guys to do. The only benefit of this reign for Tazz was that HE got the win in all of the major defenses.


And that is exactly why it was important for us Taz fans.


6. At ONS 2006 that match was built up on nothing but talk and then lasted 30 seconds. If you believe their previous fued made this one look better, the way it played out totally ruined that. It was basically jus a launching platform for Styles and Tazz to become the ECW announcers.

Well, seeing how Taz officially retired from being an in-ring competitor back in 2002 with his last match being against Godfather on Jakked, there of course would be nothing more than a small treat for Taz fans. That's exactly what this was. What did you expect? In the end of the day, Taz still choked out Lawler and that's all that matters in Taz's current physical state.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Taz's WWF wrestling career was spectacular by any means. To this day, I'm not happy about the way his career went, but if we're respectively looking at just Taz's WWF career, then what he did there regardless of how minimal the accomplishment was, is still important to a Taz fan such as myself. Let's agree to disagree.

[Fizzywink]

yes i believe it was a hugh mistake. he was a machiene and could have had some amazing matches with the top guys in the buisness. his suplexs were done to near perfection and his finisher was leathel i believe it was a hugh mistake to not push tazz

[Dead Kennedy]

I was never really that into Taz when he was a competitor, almost the same as now as a color commentator. I liked him in ECW, but in WWF, he lost the momentum after his first push, and never regained it. He had the potential to be as good as Kurt Angle, but WWF never gave him the push.

[Showtime 24/7]

I think yes. He could've easily been a lot bigger than he was. A definite middle-upper carder. Part of the trouble I think is that they used him more as a face. He should've been a full blown heel from the get go, they could've pushed him similar to how Umaga was pushed from the get go, and unstoppable toughguy. Pair him up with Benoit who was also new to the WWE at the time and they could've made a sick team, team SUPLEX THE HELL OUT OF YOU! But judging by how long he wrestled in the WWE, I don't now how much Taz had left in the tank when he came over and was probably looking for an easier schedule, definitly got easier matches to work with in WWE instead of the awesome career killer matches he had in ECW.

[Davi323]

No, it wasn't a mistake. Tazz was a great suplex oriented wrestler, but, honestly, for the style of wrestling he did, he was small. He would have had to completely change his wrestling style, because while he was one of the stronger and most intimidating people in ECW, he would have been undersized in a WWF/E ring. On top of that, he never really had much charisma...he didn't develop any kind of personality until after he got behind the mic as a commentator. If you look at some of the biggest names in the original ECW, Tazz, Raven, Shane Douglas, you don't think "yeah, that guy could be the WWF/E champ, easy..." You see them wrestle similarly sized guys, and they looked impressive, but, in a WWF/E ring, he wouldn't have been the monster he was in ECW. On top of that, his injuries were getting worse, so its possible that by the time he signed with the WWF/E, there simply wasn't enough time left in his career to have a long sustained push...Few people get that huge push their first year or two. Perhaps had the injuries not shortened his career, he might have been given something, but, he just had too many things going against him to justify getting a monster push when he entered the WWF/E.

[Rated TSS]

No. Tazz has never been a world title kind of guy unless in ECW! He is much better at the commentary desk imo. He has more talent in commentary then in wrestling and WWE/ ECW should have realised that and never got him to wrestle. he was too overweight and out of shape when he came to wwe also. No, it was a smart idea to not push him!