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View Full Version : Is MSG too small for Wrestlemania?


Arkham Noir
03-08-2010, 01:31 PM
Since Wrestlemania 23, the big show has been held in stadiums opposed to the small arenas. This makes sense due to the larger venue holding more people and attributing to a bigger feel for the event. However, someone was mentioning in a question on JR's blog about the possibility of Wrestlemania 30 being held in Madison square garden, this seems logical due to Wrestlemanias 1,10,and 20 being held there , but the garden is much smaller than their recent venues of choice.

So my question is do you think that WWE will go with tradition and stick with The Garden or will they go with the new trend of using a bigger venue?I personally think that the Garden is way too important to the company for them to ignore it and opt for a lager venue, but who knows.

What do you think?

Ferbian
03-08-2010, 01:54 PM
I think WWE will stick to tradition.
Why? because MSG was a huge part of the making of WWE, and because even thou MSG might provide a smaller place compared to the other places that WWE has held Wrestlemania in the past, WWE still seems to return with loyalty.
And even thou MSG is smaller, it has never failed to gather a fair amount of people.
Besides, looking back at WWE's visits to MSG, they always put on a huge show, so I don't see why they would ignore it because of venue.

TKO 3:16
03-08-2010, 02:09 PM
It deffinatley is. IMO its to small when they had the rumble there 2 years ago. The entrance way just looks way to confining for the wrestlers and there really is NO walk way to the ring.
The building itself DOES pack in a lot of people but the fireworks, tron, and other items are just too small.
IMO every BIG PPV needs to be in a BIG arena/stadium. Deffinatley looking foward to WM this year as I LOVE topless arenas. I wonder if WWE will ever be able to match the feat they did at WM 3 with the attendance record in the states? That's something I've wanted to see in my life again, but back to MSG, they need to renovate it or something, I know they have the "theatre" at MSG to but its nothing special.
I mean I kno the building is historic, but it needs a renovation if it wants to keep creating the history there because I know if I was booking venues, I would not wana cram into MSG.

KBeef
03-08-2010, 02:29 PM
As a native New Yorker Ill say Is the venue a little small, Yes.

But As a fan who has been to shows at MSG Including 2008 RR, It just provides a big fight Atmosphere that you don't see even in Bigger Arenas.

Tradition is always good for the longevity of a business and if it aint broke, there's no need to fix it.

Some of the greatest moments in WrestleMania history have happened at the Garden, Why? Cause of its mystique and the history it holds.

smalltownfan
03-08-2010, 02:46 PM
While WWE is going to bigger venues for its major PPVs of the year, especially WrestleMania, I do agree with an earlier posting that said MSG had a major part in making WWE what it is today and that is certainly true. I fully expect WM 30 to take place at MSG just because it's tradition and the history of the building and what it's meant for WWE.

While we're talking Mania and venues, put this venue in your mind...the new Cowboys stadium in Arlington, TX. It would beat WM3 93,000 attendance by a mile if filled to capacity.

SickJames
03-08-2010, 02:47 PM
Look I have nothing against MSG but this is crap. They dont have to go every 10 years

I am really get sick and tired of New York, Texas, Florida & California.

Why is it always those fucking places?! Why not other places. There are more states they can go to and because they are using stadiums they can finally come to some towns they wouldnt usually do for Mania like my hometown so I cant help but hate the idea of them going back because it's not the only places they can go and my town and others are just as good.

WrestleMania needs to switch up locations anyway, Texas doesnt need another for atleast 15 years. I mean why the hell not Washington D.C. ? Or something like that?

I'm not even gonna get started on poor Alaska & Hawaii which are the two states treated like crap in America and poor Wyoming

I dont wanna see WrestleMania in NY, Texas, Florida or Cali for 10-15 years. They get enough, they always get 2 Raws whereas other states get 1 every 3 fucking years, I'm sick of the unfair treatment. They can get 2 Raws and a SD! and PPV the next year and get 2 weekly shows too and other places get only SD! most of the time.


So NO, MSG doesnt deserve to get it every 10 Manias, switch it up, one big Mania can be somewhere else, I'm getting sick of repeats

PA is starting to piss me off too I believe they are like the 5th state to get treated that way too with all those events they get


The fact that they are using stadiums gives me more hope they may come to my city one day and others instead of going to THE SAME ones. Even for tradition that sucks and is unneccesary


MSG isnt the only place great moments have happened if you keep putting stuff there of course but its over hyped imo, just cause you put more effort into something thats already hyped doesnt make it great there were better moments at other Manias, this is bullshit. MSG isnt the greatest thing ever. They couldve easily had done WM 10, 20 in other states and it'd have been just as good and Texas didnt need Mania last year after just getting it with WrestleMania 17 in the same fucking city!

rvdiswhatsforme
03-08-2010, 03:02 PM
Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love the massive stadiums, but I feel like the crowd isnt as electric as opposed to smaller venues. Anytime wwe is in the United Center in Chicago or the Joe Louis Arena in Detroit or even the Air Canada Centere, the crowd sounds sooooo much louder than at the recent Manias

Mark0820
03-08-2010, 03:03 PM
There's a reason why Alaska and Hawaii don't get events. Same with some of the less populated states. Places like NYC, Cali, Texas, PA, etc all have areas of densely packed population that make it easy to sell merchandise or tourism for the states. No one's going to Wyoming willingly. Hawaii is so far out there that they'd have to do the show at 2 pm on a Sunday Hawaii time. Plus it would cost them a fortune. They are doing them in big population areas for a reason. You might like it but business is business. They are going to go where it makes them the most money.

red ass skull muhfukkah
03-08-2010, 03:04 PM
I think just because of the tradition of MSG, Wrestlemania 30 will probably be there. But I think an interesting idea would be to keep it in New York, but do it at the New Yankee Stadium, that would be amazing. Think about that, a huge stadium that with wrestling could probably fit 100,000 easy, it'll be in New York to keep up tradition, and it could start a new tradition as well, where every five, ten years WM will be there. Also I would like to see a Wrestlemania at the new Cowboy Stadium in Dallas, that might be just as amazing as the New Yankee Stadium, could probably fit 150,000 at Cowboys stadium (Jerry Jones and Vince would both love that lol)

KBP51883
03-08-2010, 03:05 PM
I think "Formerly Y2James needs to chill out . . . . . I'm from the U.K so think how we feel about not having a major PPV let alone Wrestlemania, when we've got a 80,000 indoor stadium available in Cardiff. Anyway back to the subject at hand I attended the RR in 2008 after previously attending WM23 and did feel that MSG was small in comparison but you cannot argue with the tradition and history it has so yes it should hold WM30 and 40 and 50 for that matter

Jaelae
03-08-2010, 03:20 PM
I'm not sure if "size matters" in this situation. MSG is definitely one of the smaller venues for wrestling events, but that is one awesome crowd. I thought when watching WM 20... this is MSG? They did a great job making it have that HUGE and EPIC Wrestlemania Feel, the crowd was on fire when we saw Benoit win the title, and not once did I think .. oh this is a small crowd.

On the otherhand, if they want more tickets sold, they will def go for a bigger venue. But I wouldn't count MSG out.

SydTinDad
03-08-2010, 03:36 PM
Sick
TKO......apparently you have sex with your sister in a trailer park in Montana and I wonder if you even have in door plumbing the way you think.

PEOPLE ........MSG is the MECCA. If your not a New Yorker like me, you will never get the POWER of Manhattan and what it projects. Screw overseas too. The hell with putting 150,000 filthy Mexicans in Aztec Stadium or 125,000 Lymee's in Wembly. But, in todays day and age yes, the Garden is too small. That I will agree too.

If Vince really had any real fuckin brians instead of his useless daughter (good Lord I despise her existance) and son in law making his decisions for him, put Wrestlemania where he was going to put it many moons ago and draw 110,000 on US soil........THE L.A. COLESIUM AND THE HISTORY THAT BUILDING PROJECTS.

Now THAT is how Wrestlemania 30 should go!

DigitalNight
03-08-2010, 03:36 PM
MSG was the standard for the "adolescent years" of WWE Pay-Per-Views. As stadiums have grown, as did WWE. Though, I would like to see WM 30 from two separate locations as a homage to the years of old.

Growing pains hurt places like MSG, but WWE will stay true to them with Raw appearances.

SickJames
03-08-2010, 03:38 PM
I knew ppl would bring up the UK, but WWE is USA mainly so it makes more sense for me to be pissed with no disrespect to you really, but WWE travels more places than JUST the UK like Austrailia, Mexico, etc

Canada is the only place other than the US where a WrestleMania has been and honestly it should be hometurf mostly.

And to the person who replied before you on my comments

I dont expect Alaska & Hawaii to get PPV but atleast a SD! or Raw or house show would be nice

but ppl come from all over the world anyway, I say put it in Washington D.C. It should go there atleast once

Stadiums are better and now they can go more places so they should do that

Screw those larger states

Suneeboy
03-08-2010, 03:40 PM
Now I’m going to use a lot of CAPS to emphasize my point, because I don’t think people understand why Madison Square Garden is an important venue in sports and entertainment.

Listen, MSG isn’t too small for ANYTHING. It is one of the oldest arena’s in the COUNTRY, and has a history that can span across volumes of books. Do you understand what Madison Square Garden is? It is the ONLY arena in NEW YORK CITY, which is the ENTERTAINMENT capital of the UNITED STATES, no matter of fact…THE WORLD! It is the biggest stage that ANY performer aspires to perform on.

Do you understand the magnitude of putting on a show in New York City? By reading this thread I really don’t think people fully understand. It is the most populous city in the country first and foremost, and putting on a show here is a BIG DEAL to a performer. Do you think calling MSG “The Grandest Stage of Them ALL” is just some gimmicky selling point? If you’ve ever been to a big show at MSG you will know that watching it on television does it ZERO justice. If the WWE doesn’t do a Wrestlemania at MSG ever again, I would be insanely surprised. Are you kidding me? MSG too “small” for Wrestlemania? MSG is the biggest stage in the world…NOTHING is too small.

The WWE will do a Wrestlemania at MSG in the future. Whether it be WM 30 or not, is up in the air. But never say MSG is too little. It seats up to 20,000 people you know.

SickJames
03-08-2010, 03:41 PM
Sick-James.....indeed you are. Move to Kabul you anti-western world jackass. You offer nothing that makes sense and never do. Go shoot yourself.

TKO......apparently you have sex with your sister in a trailer park in Montana and I wonder if you even have in door plumbing the way you think.

PEOPLE ........MSG is the MECCA. If your not a New Yorker like me, you will never get the POWER of Manhattan and what it projects. Screw overseas too. The hell with putting 150,000 filthy Mexicans in Aztec Stadium or 125,000 Lymee's in Wembly. But, in todays day and age yes, the Garden is too small. That I will agree too.

If Vince really had any real fuckin brians instead of his useless daughter (good Lord I despise her existance) and son in law making his decisions for him, put Wrestlemania where he was going to put it many moons ago and draw 110,000 on US soil........THE L.A. COLESIUM AND THE HISTORY THAT BUILDING PROJECTS.

Now THAT is how Wrestlemania 30 should go!

I do actually but I'm not like the rest of the IWC or most and wont be like you, I dont wanna be

The fact that they use stadiums gives them something new to play with which instantly should say to WWE, "Let's try other states now"

It really does become pointless for NY, Texas, PA & Florida to get to play hot potatoe with Raw & PPV events especially WrestleMania

There are so many other states they can go to now with just as good stadiums!

trendkiller
03-08-2010, 03:46 PM
I think "Formerly Y2James needs to chill out . . . . . I'm from the U.K so think how we feel about not having a major PPV let alone Wrestlemania, when we've got a 80,000 indoor stadium available in Cardiff. Anyway back to the subject at hand I attended the RR in 2008 after previously attending WM23 and did feel that MSG was small in comparison but you cannot argue with the tradition and history it has so yes it should hold WM30 and 40 and 50 for that matter

Indeed. I doubt the WWE will ever (EVER!) come to Sweden. Then best I can hope for is a house show/TV taping in some nearby European country, such as the UK or Italy...

And "nearby" is relatively speaking, here. It's still gonna cost a friggin' fortune with travel, hotel and currency differences being what they are... <sigh>

Travelling to WM? It's a dream, but it's probably going to have to stay that way.

Jaims
03-08-2010, 03:52 PM
I will forthright admit that I am a proud New Yorker, and say that every wrestling show I've been to at MSG has trumped all others I've attended.

To answer your question: I don't think it's TOO small, but I think it is small enough that WWE might want to try an increase profits. You see, although there are way fewer seats in MSG, I think some of the cost will be made up by the fact that tickets would sell out instantaneously. As much I as would not want this to happen, from a business perspective, you could bump up the prices for pretty much all of the tickets and they would still sell out within 24 hours. So the WWE could shorten the profit gap that way.

But what is important to remember is that MSG could make the WWE more money in two very important ways: the fan axxess events and PPV buys.

You see, if fan axxess events are taking place in Manhattan, they will be overrun. They could easily charge minimal fees to tons of native new yorkers and tourists alike to experience a little piece of the 'E. Plus, these events are easily accessible to pretty much everyone in the country, as NYC provides multiple airports and train lines to and from the city. So, the lack of $$ made from ticket sales could be made up with events in NYC.

Now in terms of my comment about PPV buys, think for a second about the last Raw that was held in MSG. I happened to be lucky enough for my girlfriend to buy tickets for me as an early Xmas gift, so I was there. And it was great. I mean, the segments worked, the matches worked, the crowd was hot as hell, and most online reviewers of that RAW commented that the crowd response truly conveyed well on TV. And that presence has always been there with MSG. Partly because of the crowd, and partly because Vince and creative try extra special hard to make MSG shows great. If Wrestlemania were to return to MSG, I have no doubt that Vince would want it to be flawless, and I think more people would be willing to shell out the $65 or whatever it is now to watch it live via PPV.

So, I don't think MSG is too small. I think regardless of the number of seats, the WWE could easily make up those profit losses, most likely making tons more. I hope WWE does it. I would never be able to get tickets, but I know the show would be great. There's nothing like a NYC crowd.

bioshock
03-08-2010, 04:07 PM
My bet is WM30 will be at Cowboys stadium so Vince could get that dream crowd over well over 100,000, more like 115,000 or so. If not that then it will be at the new Giants, Mets or Yankee stadium. Yeah outdoor WM in NY in the spring, nice weather can come, so its possible. Plus the Giants new stadium might have a contactable roof by then. so it can host basketball games.

I really d0on't see a WM coming back too the Garden though. Even though history says WM30 will be there. WWE has in the past few years gone in a complete new direction. Hell who knows if WM will even be called WM in 4 years?

The Sh4dy Legend Killer
03-08-2010, 04:25 PM
@ bioshock - good point i agree with you to some form with what you said and my thought would be the new yankee ball park its perfect feel to it the could of done it this year with the championship lined u by the baseball team have them at the show it would of been good for vince

but yeah i would MSG just off the history but they have been growing with crowds since wm 23 and they should do two locations again


and they would be - Staples Center and MSG West vs east crowds reactions have on a very epic feel give that have coastal celbs there it would be an epic WM

and i wish they would do it in chi town again they have hot crowds

but one place that would be an awwsum spot japan a wrestlemania in japan that would be awwsum

dionlyone18
03-08-2010, 05:07 PM
I knew ppl would bring up the UK, but WWE is USA mainly so it makes more sense for me to be pissed with no disrespect to you really, but WWE travels more places than JUST the UK like Austrailia, Mexico, etc

Canada is the only place other than the US where a WrestleMania has been and honestly it should be hometurf mostly.

And to the person who replied before you on my comments

I dont expect Alaska & Hawaii to get PPV but atleast a SD! or Raw or house show would be nice

but ppl come from all over the world anyway, I say put it in Washington D.C. It should go there atleast once

Stadiums are better and now they can go more places so they should do that

Screw those larger states

Bruh...calm down...look i live in north carolina and weve never had mania here..weve had summerslams and no mercy and i think a backlash...but im not complaining...think about it..when you hear "wrestlemania is coming to you live from msg or the staples center or the astrodome or skydome" i get this chill down my spine...come on bruh.."mania is coming to live from alabama..mississippi, montana,wyoming,alaska..hawaii" that does nothing and sounds so stupid.bigger states get manias cause..well the state attracts bigger names and publicity...i mean mania is meant to have like 70,80 thousand attendence..not 14 thousand strong...and theres nothing appealing in smaller states..I mean msg is in nyc...nyc has soo much history..cali...come on who doesnt enjoy cali?..texas...everythings bigger in texas...see what im getting at..when the cameras pan otside the stadiums or arenas they dont wanna see cornfeilds or mountians...they wantg big skyscrapers and huge buildings..like when summerslam came here to north carolina..we have some significant things here and it attracts wwe...face facts..smaller states..dont deserve mania..barely deserve a sd or raw

TKO 3:16
03-08-2010, 05:28 PM
Sick-James.....indeed you are. Move to Kabul you anti-western world jackass. You offer nothing that makes sense and never do. Go shoot yourself.

TKO......apparently you have sex with your sister in a trailer park in Montana and I wonder if you even have in door plumbing the way you think.

PEOPLE ........MSG is the MECCA. If your not a New Yorker like me, you will never get the POWER of Manhattan and what it projects. Screw overseas too. The hell with putting 150,000 filthy Mexicans in Aztec Stadium or 125,000 Lymee's in Wembly. But, in todays day and age yes, the Garden is too small. That I will agree too.

If Vince really had any real fuckin brians instead of his useless daughter (good Lord I despise her existance) and son in law making his decisions for him, put Wrestlemania where he was going to put it many moons ago and draw 110,000 on US soil........THE L.A. COLESIUM AND THE HISTORY THAT BUILDING PROJECTS.

Now THAT is how Wrestlemania 30 should go!

Lol, you insult me, and then agree in saying that it is to small. Wow your a real posting champ!
Listen boy, idk how you can say shit like that about other peoples opinions. They are OPINIONS, not facts.
I never said that MSG wasn't an instution for wrestling, matter of fact I didn't say it at all. Wrestlemania IMO should be in a very, VERY big place because it is a big event.
You can take your shit talkin' somewhere else because you are really out of line talking like that.
If you can't contribute something relevant without "bashing" people for their thoughts and opinions, then you have no buisness posting on these fourms. They are for grown people, so grow up and come back later BOY!

Svengoolie
03-08-2010, 05:42 PM
It deffinatley is.

Congratulations, sir! You win the award for worst misspelling of "definitely" I have ever seen!

On topic, MSG isn't too small, but I do hate the entrance. They basically just come out through the typical little walkway that you walk through when going to a basketball game but try to decorate it a little by throwing in those weird doors. Of course, it does get credit for looking different than the typical WWE set, so people might see it and feel like something special is going on.

But they held Wrestlemania at Allstate Arena a couple years ago, which is even smaller. Everything went alright then.

Mighty NorCal
03-08-2010, 06:12 PM
Yea, it is too small for Wrestlemania, but regardless, the decade anniversary WMs will still be there becuase of the prestige of the building. Same thing with the Rosemount Horizon (now reffered to as AllState Arena) in Chicago.

bko
03-08-2010, 09:38 PM
Wm1 held 19,121, Wm10 held 18,065, and Wm 20 held 20,000, so I guess you could I see the arguement that MSG is too small, from a business and fan point I guess. The last three Wrestlemania's have drawn over 70,000 plus each, so why would WWE want 20,000 at most at MSG, when they know for a fact they easily draw 3 plus times more else where. Screw Tradition! As a fan watching on TV or in my case laptop, you can definitely feel the different that feels all the more epic for the fans enjoyment.

howerf85
03-08-2010, 09:52 PM
I know this is going off on a tangent but i think WWE should do some of their PPV's outside of the states as i know there is a massive market in the UK and here in Australia. For the smackdown and raw tours they easily get 17-19000 people here in sydney and melbourne etc. When they had the Global Warning tour here in 02 they got just under 60,000 in melbourne. I know this is far fetched but if they were to do a Wrestlemania in Melbourne at the Melbourne Cricket Ground they could get around 110,000 or even more and same with ANZ stadium here in Sydney they could get around 80,000 or so. I can see peoples views with Indoor to outdoor arenas. Indoor venues are more intimate and when the crowd is hot they are damn HOT but then with the outdoor venues you can create a massive spectacular with fireworks and everything in between. With having PPV's overseas works in this time as countries like Australia and the UK have helped WWE to become the "Global" brand that it is.

Gallops
03-08-2010, 10:09 PM
Is the actual venue of MSG too small for Wrestlemania in terms of a capacity standpoint? Probably. But that's not all Wrestlemania is to the WWE. I think I can safely assume that the WWE makes more money when they have events in MSG than they do any other arena in the world. ESPECIALLY when it's big like Wrestlemania and they have billboards all over NYC promoting the show.

If WWE wanted to get more sales, they could use the Theatre as MSG as a viewing center, could make a deal with Radio City Music Hall to show the event, and sell MORE tickets essentially than any other venue.

But MSG doesn't need that. Big crowds are cool to see, but nothing beats a MSG crowd.

Arkham Noir
03-09-2010, 12:05 AM
After looking at the arguments posted, I'm going to retain my orginal veiw that they will stay with the garden. One of the things vince is know for is how much he values his families ties within WWE. And Madison Square Garden is really as synonomous with WWE as is the Mcmahon name.Plus the fact the New York is a playground for marketing the product makes me think that Wrestlemania 30 will occur in Madison Square Garden.

Thank You for the feed back.

Dagger Dias
03-09-2010, 04:26 AM
I think that WWE will continue its tradition and return to Madison Square Garden for Wrestlemania 30. It would make sense because 1, 10, and 20 were held there. Plus it's a very historical location for WWE. The only real issue is that the capacity there holds around 20,000 people. Wrestlemania 23, 24, and 25 have all gotten over 70,000 fans to attend. WWE would lose money on seats that could have been purchased, so they would REALLY have to work on making the show awesome enough for more people to buy in on PPV. Of course, some fans will buy it regardless with it being Wrestlemania number 30.... They should follow tradition, and they will, but at the same time I think they would make more money if they keep on using larger locations. Luckily the fact that it's the 30th Wrestlemania would add prestige to the show alone and they will surely still make a ton of money off of it even if they do it in a smaller location such as Madison Square Garden. Some traditions are meant to be kept alive, every 10th Wrestlemania being held at MSG is one of them.

I_Like_All_Wrestling
03-10-2010, 09:10 PM
So MSG holds about 20,000 people. If WWE can hold a Wrestlemania in Giants Stadium instead, which holds about 80,000 people, why wouldn't they?

I really can't see WWE turning down a huge stadium, 50,000 more ticket sales, and probably 100,000+ more items of merchandise sold, just to have an event in MSG. I really don't think that WWE cares about tradition all that much, especially when that so-called tradition would cost them millions of dollars.

Here are the last few Wrestlemanias held in stadiums:

WrestleMania XXIII: 80,000
WrestleMania XXIV: 75,000
WrestleMania XXV: 73,000
WrestleMania XXVI: 73,000
WrestleMania XXVII: 72,000

Again, MSG holds about 20,000. I'm sure they could stretch it and fit in for more seats somewhere, but it's still nowhere near what they could fill in a stadium. So again, I can't see them choosing to forgo that amount of revenue simply for "tradition."